Thought +Language

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Quote .ren:I don't know how this software reads this as a response to post #99, I clicked on reply under #149 when I posted.
Perhaps you are living in the future. ON my screeen, there are 103 posts in this thread

stwo's picture
stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I've not contributed much to this thread even as I've followed it for a couple of reasons; one because words carry so much of what happens to be ones mein at any particular point in time and two because there was always been more to say than time would allow to even try to make what I wanted to convey clear. And frankly in the later case I'm not real sure I can do that now, but I will try for the moment.

The very title of the thread is intriguing for me as thought + language brings and opens the whole visage of the human history to me. So far though with only a couple digressions of what language actually is the discussion has been confined to the written word. From my point of view the human species is largely like other evolved creatures on this common ground we call earth, we depend on visual as much, if not more than vocalization. This little invention of ours called writing is certainly a huge step in helping for communication whatever it's limitations they (words) are for most of us. After all, there are very few of us that can paint the sunset in words, in verse wrap us in the warm embrace of a lover, give us a bath with the cooling summer shower at midnoon or put us into a sauna while walking through the cement byways of the city. Few humans have that ability to do that transportation act and a limited (by all appearances) number that can even come close to an agreement what those masters are trying to say. And those are the masters of the written words we disagree on!

Thought + language has always been also a visual experience for the human. Consider early mans communications before written words, geoglyphs, petroglyphs, petrographs. The human species has always been as dependent on the visual as on the verbal. While lately we humans seem to depend on only written words.

Gotta take a break. Later guys.

*edit Sat. morning.

I don't know what's up with this program on this site. On the opening page I can't log out, but I need to log in to post. What!?

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Woops, for sure I was reading and replying to post #103 while I was writing this post, now the posted version is telling me I was responding to post #102.

I very much feel as if I am with you on this path of thought, rs. I rely heavily on sight, sound and smell to make sense of things, most especially in my communication with others. A person's body as they talk send many messages that may tell far more than their words. Our mirror genes, as they call them, our empathy triggering genes as I think of them, are at work in many ways. I strongly believe visual, smell, sound, the actual feel of the environment all play a role in deciphering someone's meaning. I can't help but wonder what removing any of those features from communication has accomplished in ten thousand years of experimenting with civilization's various social communication technologies -- writing being just one. What are we programming ourselves to be without our full capacities?

Television and movies are particularly strong potential for self deception because they offer an illusion that the whole message is there, but we are still missing important parts. While writing, at least I can be conscious I am missing a lot. I can work at remaining impersonal and watching my reactions to what I imagine to be meaning in private. I think that's part of why I am drawn to it, it's such a challenge and so difficult for me.

My one reference on this thread to where I sense you may be going with this was my attempt to correlate this message board form of communicating with being deaf and blind. But of course, that's only a gesture, an attempt to trigger the imagination; the correlation would not be exact. But I do try to keep my limitations in mind, and that's why I am so mindful of the follow up I see in so many different words expressing an urge to get personal with each other. Too much imagination must go into reading behind the words when getting upset, or whatever. Too little is there on our screens to confirm the accuracy of any assumptions.

If there is any form of communication that cries out for exercising our capacity to be impersonal, and to take a moment to refrain from expressing being upset when we can't understand each other's words, it's this form. While that closes down some possibilities for communication, it may open others. I for one become especially conscious of the autonomy of my own thoughts. When physically in the proximity of others, that autonomy can become masked by a host of sensations.

In regards to our pre civilization ancestors' creations that we have stumbled upon, I am still mesmerized while watching this: Cave of Forgotten Dreams. Especially seeing it in 3D. But, what were those humans really doing in there thirty thousand years ago?

P.S., yesterday the board was really weird, I was seeing different numbers for posts on this thread than I am now. Or was it just my mind playing tricks? Or was I in some sort of Twilight Zone?

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Quote rs allen:

Sheesh Zoe, keep an open mind. Not everything is directed at you, your opinions or an attempt at a mind meld. This thread is supposed to be a discussion not a debate.

Sheesh yourself, rs— Was my interaction with ren directed at you? No, but you feel entitled to jump in, to patronize me, effectively siding with ren in a way that makes me feel ganged up on! Hello, that hurts my feelings. But gosh, I never thought of you as a bully —always liked you very much, even begging you not to leave the forum (no good deed goes unpunished)— but, hey, if the shoe fits…

In any case, what makes you think discussions must be devoid of difference of opinion? Well, if you care enough to read more on my subjective opinion on that, please go here.

Anyway, I could tell you to have an open mind too, rather than automatically closing it to my positions.

Quote .ren:
Quote Zenzoe:

Oye, I didn't say that words have power over me, ren. Quite the opposite, if we're going to look at the context where I mentioned that words have power. I was talking about manipulative words in the context of cult leaders who wish to gain uncritical devotion from their followers. That's something I have never done, that is, be an uncritical follower. Of course, you would understand that, if you weren't determined to read my words through a cloudy lens, as you demonstrate with your next comment:

I haven't a clue what you mean by "words have power." If they don't have power over you, how would you even know they do have power?


Allow me to explain this surprisingly complicated thing to you: Yes, sometimes words do have power over me, as in, for example, here on this thread, where last night I deliberately chose not to read this thread, because I wanted to have a tension-free evening, and I knew if you’d written something to me in the mood of wilful incomprehension again that I would not be able to sleep until I answered you. But, no, that’s a different situation compared to the one I was talking about, where words have power OVER OTHERS IN THE CONTEXT OF SPIRITUAL LEADERS TRYING TO GAIN UNCRITICAL DEVOTION FROM THEIR FOLLOWERS.

It’s about the words of authority having power over others in their sphere of influence. My writing “words have power” were written specifically for that context, and that has nothing to do with words having power over me. If you can’t see that, I don’t know how to make it any clearer. Perhaps if you read my paragraph again...

Quote .ren:

My perspective is that what people say (the maps they create) comes from within their territory. I don't see any way out of the trap of our own subjectivity. To me it is by nature of that we are necessarily subjective.


So what? Of course we are subjective! I have never argued any differently. Still, that one speaks from one’s subjective reality doesn’t invalidate one’s observations. You seem to be suggesting that you don’t have to consider my opinion as having any possible validity, because it’s my subjective opinion. Then, if it’s your position that all opinions are subjective and unworthy of consideration, why bother with this “dialogue?”
Quote .ren:
I don't claim to know what's going on in your mind, that would be self deceptive to my way of thinking. As I said, I am consistently skeptical of words. That also means I don't know very much for certain. I'm mostly guessing.

I’m only guessing too. Did I claim my word as the final, absolute truth? Or, did I simply assert another perspective, one you may not have considered, one you might want to address? I think it’s the latter. I know it’s the latter, because I know you may not have considered the points I brought up about Bohm & K. Notice, however, you have yet to address those points, choosing instead to focus the discussion on my subjectivity. Hello? Avoidance, anyone?

Quote .ren:

Your subjective interpretation of what I mean is entirely yours. You are welcome to it.


Same to you, ren.

Quote .ren:

Quote Zenzoe:

Sheesh—I said thank you to be polite, not because I thought you needed gratitude.

I don't need polite either. I mostly doubt it's given without strings.


What makes you think my motives always revolve around what you need? Hm-m-m? Sometimes I choose actions based on what I need, as in, I need to express good will, for my own sake, because it makes me feel better. That’s my subjectivity, and you can believe it, or not, according to your subjectivity. Just try to believe that I wasn’t raised to be focused on others’ needs, and the only humans who consistently inspire that in me are my children and grandchildren; I especially do not feel a compunction to focus on your needs here, thank my stars! ;-)

As for strings: I am not the bête noire you consistently choose to think I am.

Quote .ren:

Quote Zenzoe:

I am as clear a writer as you will find on this forum, and I resent your projection of your own failure to comprehend as a flaw in my writing. Trust me, I can find oodles of vague, incoherent, and imprecise language in your writing, so you might think twice about insulting me on that score.

If you're having trouble with my words criticizing people you admire, why don't you say so? If my words make you uncomfortable, how about owning it?

...Writing a fine grammatically "clear" sentence that projects something I can't possibly know anything about is not necessarily being clear in my mind. It's just expressing your opinion. …


Hogwash, pure hogwash, ren. I’m not buying it.

If I didn’t know better, all this “your map is incomprehensible to me,” —that you can choose not to comprehend my writing, because you’re not in my mind and don’t share my particular subjectivity— I’d begin to think is your code for “it’s a woman talking...la la la, I’m not listening…” or, “it’s a feminist talking...la la la, I’m not listening, or, it’s Zenzoe talking...la la la, I’m not listening…” Well, it can’t be that sexist or mean thing, because I think you’re bigger than that.

I mean, you certainly have no trouble following other writers, probably plenty of female writers too; I don’t see you complaining that Bohm’s writing comes from his subjectivity, his opinion, and what’s clear to him “is not necessarily being clear in my mind.” In any case, I am really quite tired of being treated like some cow who can’t write a coherent sentence. It’s BS, plain and simple, and I’m calling you on it.

Do you or do you not see how the words of authorities, such as spiritual leaders, or corporate leaders, or celebrities, have power over their followers in a way that can be dangerous, or injurious to the self-integrity of those followers? Think of Jim Jones, for example. Or ISIS recruitment techniques. Or advertising, and on and on...

Were Noam Chomsky’s discussions about the manufacture of consent wasted efforts? Would he agree with you that the notion that “words have power” have no meaning, or are incomprehensible, as if we’re aliens to each other, all inhabiting our own islands of consciousness and have no way of comprehending the minds of others, nor of making sense of others’ opinions, because we don’t share each other’s “maps” or “territory?” I doubt it. I truly doubt it.

Quote .ren:

...It's my humble opinion that whatever conclusions you've come to about anything whatsoever are entirely your own, even if you've borrowed the map from someone else with which to express yourself. I believe that following someone and giving them responsibility for your choice to go along and do as they say, and so forth, is an act of self deception better known in French as mauvaise foi. If you want to interpet something someone has said as an insult, that is entirely up to you. I in no way wish you not to have your opinions. That would be like wishing you were a robot. I will simply ignore all your attempts to make them personal, whether about me or anyone else. That's just the way I've become, especially when I can't know people up close and personally. And that is certainly the case on this message board.

I could say exactly the same to you. You’ve taken my words personally, as is evidenced most recently by your wilful incomprehension of my comments re Bohm & K., your distracting from the issue by making it about my supposedly being unclear, according to your subjectivity. That’s personal. So please do not try to come off as the good guy here, even while you relentlessly suggest evil intent on my part. It's unfair and unkind, and I'm not going to sit here and take it. I am not your enemy. I just feel equally entitled to my voice and expect to be respected for it. Is that beyond the realm of reasonable expectations?

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Yes I'd forgotten how worried you get about us poor lost waifs being led astray by those big evil cult leaders. It seemed to me though (and it still does) that your tenor is being purposely contentious for no good reason or end that I can assertain. But hey, I'm willing to accept I'm just too dense for any real comprehension beyond comic book material. Thanks for pointing that out Zoe, it'll probably help me resist the pull of a next cult magnet that wants to suck my life blood away.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

I don't think Zenzoe is looking out for you guys, she has kids that have kids that are now fodder for corporate marketing after Reagan deregulated. We were not blatantly encouraged to nag our parents as kids today are, with congressional approval.

Sweden outlaws child specific marketing, and Jay Rockefeller was the only one challenging the Reagan bots when this shit went down. Rockefellers know the power of marketing.

Since all the dereg and fairness doctrine funeral, civility took a holiday or is in a coma.

wittgenstein/language-games. is one issue that prompted this thread. This is a pdf on semantics and links to semiotics.

The SC white supremacist was motivated by language and triggered his thoughts of who knows what? Loss? conspiracy? entitlement?

The LA theater shooter was unstable, so of course he should be armed, that's what Americans do. I mean he had to protect himself..why I bet his local food store had a product on the shelf that was past the last date of sale. I think that calls for a Glock 9mm. There ought to be a handbook, or a chart.

If your neighbor tears the tags off the mattresses, a little 22 caliber should cover it. (A pellet gun if you think a warning is sufficient to restore order).

On the restored metaphor thread, my last post referenced a WTF demeanor adopted when it seems all is lost. The example was a cancer diagnosis, but one can start laughing at the farce that is USA's exceptionalism with the same sentiment.

I forgot why I just popped in, I'm watching Alpha House, the Amazon production that one can stream too. It is funny, and I'm guessing 66% true. It definitely has Trudeau's handprint.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I have no interest in pursuing this any further.

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Quote rs allen:

Yes I'd forgotten how worried you get about us poor lost waifs being led astray by those big evil cult leaders. It seemed to me though (and it still does) that your tenor is being purposely contentious for no good reason or end that I can assertain. But hey, I'm willing to accept I'm just too dense for any real comprehension beyond comic book material. Thanks for pointing that out Zoe, it'll probably help me resist the pull of a next cult magnet that wants to suck my life blood away.

Rs, if I have ever implied by any of my posts that you are “too dense for any real comprehension beyond comic book level,” or that you’re a “poor lost waif” vulnerable to being “led astray by those evil cult leaders,” I do apologize. Goodness knows I never think of you that way, nor did I bring up authoritarian verbal manipulativeness for your sake, thinking you needed a heads up on that score.

I didn’t bring it up to help anybody; instead, I assumed everybody would know what I was talking about, but, hey, such was not the case, obviously. My motives are suspect, no matter what I do. Sigh.

Quote douglaslee:

I don't think Zenzoe is looking out for you guys, she has kids that have kids that are now fodder for corporate marketing after Reagan deregulated. We were not blatantly encouraged to nag our parents as kids today are, with congressional approval…


It’s true. Thanks, Doug. I’m assuming people are cognizant of mind control techniques, and my bringing it up wasn’t because I discounted anybody’s awareness of such things, only as a suggestion or reminder of what can happen, or what might be going on.

I’m thinking the following fits this thread as well as any other aspect of the subject, but if it doesn’t, you can always just ignore it:

How thoughts + language/words =s problems for women trying to enter traditionally male-dominated fields: From Harper’s Magazine’s Readings, August 2015:

Quote Harper's Magazine, Readings:

Lab Rats

From recent posts made to STEMfeminist.com, a forum that collects accounts of discrimination and harassment against women studying or working in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics.

I am a postdoc in a field that requires occasional soldering and minor circuitry. For my Ph.D. I created all my electronic equipment, and have over seven years experience doing so. Despite this, each time there is a project that requires soldering, my adviser says to wait until [male colleague] is in, since “he knows what he is doing.” Lately I have stopped asking, but when I tell my adviser I’ve finished the project, he always has to come “check it,” then acts surprised when it works.

When I was a new assistant professor, I went to a meeting for researchers in my field. I gave my talk, which was well received, with many questions leading to discussions then and afterward. Later, I encountered one of the well-known male professors, who told me my talk was very nice and patted me on the head.

Each year, as new (often female) trainees enter our psychology program, I notice that they all address female faculty by their first names and male faculty by their formal titles. I have had trainees address me by my first name, then immediately address a male colleague by his formal title in the same sentence (“Hello X and Dr. Y”).

When I was an undergraduate math student I scheduled a meeting with my department chair to talk about which Ph.D. programs to apply to. His response was that the most important thing for me to focus on over the next few years was “finding a life partner.” He said that given my scores and his estimations of my ability, I should consider a particular tiny, unheard-of program. Then he said actually I had better not apply to that program, because it was rural and small and there would be “three Asian men to choose from.”

As a new assistant professor, I was asked to join a multidepartmental collaborative working group preparing a grant. At the initial meeting, when the participants were milling about greeting each other, I heard a researcher comment to the colleague with whom I had walked in, “What a great idea it was to bring your secretary! Now we’ll all have accurate meeting notes!”

I was recently invited to give a talk at a university. During one of the off moments, the main host mentioned that he didn’t believe sexism existed at his institution. As proof, he pointed out that he had just hired a female postdoc. When I asked how many other female postdocs his department had, he said, “Well, she’s the only one.”

One day, in front of the entire class, my favorite geology professor told me that it was okay for me to get my bachelor’s degree in geology, but after that I needed to stay home and bake cookies for the real geologists.

As an undergraduate physics student, whenever I had the highest test score in the class the running joke was that I had slept with the professor the night before. They would sometimes draw pictures of me performing oral sex on the professor on the whiteboard in the physics lounge.

When I was trying to decide which grad school to attend, I was invited to visit a department at an Ivy League university. During the visit, I interviewed with a male faculty member whose research was related to what I was hoping to study. He spent five minutes talking with me about the work in his lab, then called me over to sit next to him at his desk. He had a browser window open and was looking at a series of photo composites of young women who were supposed to represent “average” faces of women from various countries. He finally decided that Ethiopian women were the most attractive to him.

I worked as an undergraduate R.A. for 1.5 years in a male professor’s lab. After graduating — knowing I was planning to apply to graduate school — I did my best to stay in contact with the professor in a professional yet friendly manner. Shortly before applications were due, I asked if he would like to get coffee or lunch to discuss my application, as he had agreed to write me a letter of recommendation. He instead suggested dinner at a bar/restaurant near his home. He insisted on buying me drinks, and continued to order several rounds throughout the evening. During dinner, he commented on my appearance multiple times. Afterward, I thanked him and said I would be walking to the subway station. He told me that the subway was closed and that I should sleep on his couch. I knew the subway wasn’t closed and suggested I try to catch a train or a cab, but he insisted. Reluctantly, I went back to his home, where he raped me. One week later, he sent me several sealed copies and one unsealed copy of a glowing letter of recommendation.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

The Semantics pdf is pretty good. Wittgenstein, 2001 A Space Odyssey, HAL, and more are woven together.

Then:

sentence was spoken by a child named Laura at age 34 months (Limber 1973):

When I was a little girl, I could go “geek, geek” like that;

but now I can go “This is a chair.”

In this short passage, Laura combined subordinate and coordinate clauses, past tense contrasted with present, the modal auxiliaries can and could , the quotations “geek, geek” and “This is a chair,” metalanguage about her own linguistic abilities, and parallel stylistic structure. The difficulty of simulating such ability led Alan Perlis to remark “A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God” (1982)

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Semantics Cont'd: Vagueness and ambiguity are not negative qualities but assist in honing the real thoughts one seeks to convey. Thus his [Witt's] penchant for seeking the basis or foundation for the idea being conveyed, why are you saying this?

2. Wittgenstein’s AlternativeAlthough Wittgenstein criticized his earlier theory of semantics and related theories by Frege andRussell, he did not reject everything in theTractatus. He continued to have a high regard for logic andmathematics, and he taught a course on the foundations of mathematics, which turned into a debatebetween himself and Alan Turing. He also retained the picture theory of the Tractatus, whichconsidered the relationships among words in a sentence as apicture(Bild) of relationships in the world.What he abandoned, however, was the claim that there exists a unique decomposition of the world intoatomic facts and a privileged vantage point for taking pictures of those facts. A chair, for example, is asimple object for someone who wants to sit down; but for a cabinet maker, it has many parts that mustbe carefully fit together. For a chemist developing a new paint or glue, even the wood is a complexmixture of chemical compounds, and those compounds are made up ofatoms, which are not reallyatomic after all. Every one of those views is a valid picture of a chair for some purpose.In thePhilosophical Investigations, Wittgenstein showed that ordinary words likegamehave few, ifany common properties that characterize all their uses. Competition is present in ball games, butabsent in solitaire or ring around the rosy. Organized sport follows strict rules, but not spontaneousplay. And serious games of life or war lack the aspects of leisure and enjoyment. Instead of uniquedefining properties, games share a sort offamily resemblance:baseball and chess are games becausethey resemble the family of activities that people call games. Except for technical terms inmathematics, Wittgenstein maintained that most words are defined by family resemblances. Even inmathematics, the meaning of a symbol is its use, as specified by a set of rules or axioms. A word orother symbol is like a chess piece, which is not defined by its shape or physical composition, but by therules for using the piece in the game of chess.

Sorry for the copy from pdf unedited, I think all can decipher..maybe it's showing vagueness...HAL at work.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Here’s a thinker for ya:

Quote Harper’s Magazine, Readings August 2015:

Doctoral Feces

By Matthias Gross

From “Natural Waste: Canine Companions and the Lure of Inattentively Pooping in Public,” a study by Matthias Gross, published in the March 2015 issue of Environmental Sociology.

At first glance, dog walking seems straightforward. Walk the dog, let it poop, walk the dog home. But why is it that the poop falling out of the dog is not taken care of, and if it is, how exactly is this done? Around 2003, I started observing dog walkers and taking notes about their relations to dog excrement. (I often did this when I walked one of my three kids to nearby parks. At the time I decided to write a paper on it, I had been observing dog walkers for some ten years in Germany and abroad.) My attempts to ask dog walkers about their habit were often met with aggression (“Mind your own business,” “Don’t you have anything else to do with your time?”). When I asked dog owners why they let their dogs poop here and not somewhere else, a sentiment I often heard was, “When my dog has to poop, it has to poop.” At one point, a dog owner countered: “You have to realize, you are not alone on this planet. Animals have rights, too.”

When a dog owner uses a bag to dispose of their dog’s poop, he or she often seems to take good care that somebody else is watching. In turn, the owner will sometimes pretend that he or she has not seen the dog pooping — for example, by talking earnestly into a cell phone or using an iPad. If the dog has runny poop, skillful dog owners, I observed, reacted quickly, and the bag in their hands deliberately went back into their pockets.

Poop on the sidewalk or anywhere else in public serves as a visual and olfactory (and, if stepped on, a tactile) conduit of communication. It can be seen as a boundary between civilization and wilderness on behalf of the dog owner. Dogs become mediators for humans between wild nature and tamed culture. Perhaps it is the freedom taken away from humans to poop in nature that encourages them to project this freedom onto their best friends.
[Zenzoe bolds]

Oye.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

reply #112

Rather a crude sophomoric metaphor for what's happened to this thread and below your standards.

That is if you were to ask me Zoe.

Doug, I'm still only at page 7 or 8 of the condensed version you've thoughtfully provided. Still digesting.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

When I lived in LA - Hermosa Beach, the strand had occasional visits from the local police. Any dog walkers could be challenged and required to produce a poop bag or get ticketed.

On Alpha House show, I'm on a segment showing a Mormon couple seeking celibacy before their nuptials. They are allowed to have the erect guy penetrate his fiance, as long as they do not move after penetration. According to the church this is called 'Soaking'. Magic underwear is probably next season.

Anyhow, I thought of a relevancy image to convey my thoughts or opinion on religion. I think religion is a WWE version of philosophy, a cartoon version. Americans like cartoon images, Trump is leading the GOP field.

One other thing, the Mormon couple soaking per curch law, pondered the lesbian couple's pre-nupial practices- to obey the church. "I think they just don't move their tougues" "I thought the same thing".

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Apparently, rs hasn’t been introduced to the dialectics of poop yet.

The Poop Report: Cloaca: Shit That Is Art

Definition: cloaca: a common cavity at the end of the digestive tract for the release of both excretory and genital products in vertebrates (except most mammals) and certain invertebrates. Specifically, the cloaca is present in birds, reptiles, amphibians, most fish, and monotremes.

Indepth Arts News: "Wim Delvoye: Cloaca"

Doggy Poo, the movie (for the young at heart), Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=argbjMdueug

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2f3hsxNGnU

Pt.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkyNggv74EI

Testing the limits of the gullibility of corporate sheep: Yes Men - Post Consumer Waste Recycling Program (WTO): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP_nNemsNT8

Douglaslee, I just put Alpha House on my Netflix queue. I’m looking forward to it.

As for Mormon prenuptial practices— is that stupid, or what? It just proves that intelligence is no guarantee against stupidity (as did the Phd. poop researcher's paper). Bundling is a better idea.

...

See ya— it’s a beautiful day here.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Be light, be dark, be whatever you like, even serious in a way that allows for simplicity:

beauty askew, By John Brandi, notes from a haiku writer’s life—

http://www.johnbrandi.com/beauty-askew.pdf

“Waterbirds
turn in the rain

I stop
now & then, to miss you
—& to pretend.”

Quote John Brandi, beauty askew:
The spare, high desert of New Mexico—its apparent and often illusory emptiness, its blinding bowl of light—encourages one to write with an economy of words. The eye follows winding arroyos, roadrunner tracks, cloud shadows, and blowing seed; the breath gathers momentum along ridges, faults, and prehistoric waterlines. Fossils scatter at the feet, clay shards glisten after a sudden rain. On storm-washed chips of prehistoric pottery, abstract designs come clear: a figure here, a zigzag there, a water ripple, an animal track, the pinch of an artisan’s fingers. I am reminded of Sappho’s poems: fragments, mysterious and striking to the eye, missing something essential but somehow made more essential because of what’s missing...

...We belong to other peoples, too, ones who speak other languages on other continents who share the same human emotions connected to situations of love, loss, and longing. Often, though, it is not until a tragedy occurs that we are drawn together and realize the fragility of our existence. Who was it who said:

if the world

is so beautiful, why are we
not beautiful in it?

One of the purposes of haiku is to convey beauty, but it is a beauty askew of the norm, less obvious to the eye. Haiku doesn’t abide by standards of perfection. It isn’t interested in the over-trimmed garden. It goes for rough edges, the wild tangle: a gourd vine unfurling from the compost, a spark from a shovel as it hits a stone, a breeze-bobbing cat whisker caught on an axe blade, an errant whorl in smooth grain, a cricket singing from the corner mop…

...For the artist or philosopher, beauty is to be rendered and discussed, but for those living in beauty, it is simply part of life…

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Trump and His Billionaire Buddies Plot to Destroy Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid

Thom plus logo Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are officially in the crosshairs of the Trump administration, and they intend to go after them this year.
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