These oath signing aggreements have become another digusting assault on Democracy. Top of the list being all the Repugs who sign these "I will sell my soul" oaths to "not raise taxes [on the rich]" Some useless bag of worthless flesh who calls himself Grover Norquist, subverts democracy by getting these traitors to sign what is effectively an oath of allegience to the super-rich ruling elites.

http://nonpartisanpolitics.org/notaxes.htm

And the criminal Banksters have politicians who attend their secretive Bilderberg meetings, which the mainstream media refuses to report upon, sign oaths to implement the policies dictated to them.

These corrupt politicians are supposed to take an oath of allegiance to the Constitution, signing any other oath related to their governance should be considered an act of high treason, and subject to immediate ejection from political office and criminal prosecution.

Public campaign pledges are "subverting democracy"?

Quote gumball:

Public campaign pledges are "subverting democracy"?

They certainly can subvert one's oath of office. To borrow from an old blog article of mine...

If a congressperson took a "No New Weapons System" pledge to a third party... would that interfere with their constitutional responsibility to defend the nation? I think we'd all agree it would.

So what if a congressperson took a "No New Taxes AND No New Borrowing" pledge... Would that not interfere with those constitutional duties that REQUIRE spending? Obviously. So what about a "No New taxes" Pledge? Where is the red line where a third party pledge interferes with a congressperson's oath of office? Here's that official Oath: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

Quote ulTRAX:

If a congressperson took a "No New Weapons System" pledge to a third party... would that interfere with their constitutional responsibility to defend the nation? I think we'd all agree it would.

You think wrong, I would disagree.

Quote gumball:

Quote ulTRAX:

If a congressperson took a "No New Weapons System" pledge to a third party... would that interfere with their constitutional responsibility to defend the nation? I think we'd all agree it would.

You think wrong, I would disagree.

Oh, of course... you might not agree. I forgot that this thread was open to less than rational right wing ideologues.

It is irrational to believe that defending this country does not require new weapons systems? That diplomacy is a better defense than fancy weapons?

I don't believe that, but I do not think it is irrational or an invalid point of view unworthy of discussion. Is it invalid and unworthy unworthy of discussion to believe that the level of taxation does not need to grow?

For a candidate to pledge support for a point of view being advocated...is that really worthy of criminal prosecution?

Quote gumball:

It is irrational to believe that defending this country does not require new weapons systems? That diplomacy is a better defense than fancy weapons?

I wasn't posing a trick question. Doesn't whether we need new weapons capability depend on what new threats emerge?

Quote ulTRAX:

Quote gumball:

It is irrational to believe that defending this country does not require new weapons systems? That diplomacy is a better defense than fancy weapons?

I wasn't posing a trick question. Doesn't whether we need new weapons capability depend on what new threats emerge?

In my opinion, yes.

The point is that to suggest ones opinion is invalid and be open for criminal prosecution if you pledge to stick to that opinion. Well, that is silly on its face.

What is with the lefts desire to ban and criminalize ideas that conflict with their own?

Quote gumball:The point is that to suggest ones opinion is invalid and be open for criminal prosecution if you pledge to stick to that opinion. Well, that is silly on its face.

What's silly is to suggest that I ever said I wanted criminal prosecution for signing one of these pledges... even if they can create a conflict of interest. As for what's invalid... YOU are the one who seemed to make the blanket statement that these pledges would never interfer with one's oath of office. I just gave possible examples of how it might happen.

Quote gumball:

It is irrational to believe that defending this country does not require new weapons systems? That diplomacy is a better defense than fancy weapons?

AGAIN... doesn't that depend on the nature of the threat?

Look, there are any number of possible conflicts that can be created by special interest group pledges. What if as part of the right's starve the beast campaign a pledge was handed out not just to never raise taxes AND never to borrow more than we already have? This is hardly fanciful since we know the right has pushed for this. So what if there's a national emergency? You're claiming this pledge would never EVER interfere with a congressperson's primary oath?

Quote gumball:I don't believe that, but I do not think it is irrational or an invalid point of view unworthy of discussion. Is it invalid and unworthy unworthy of discussion to believe that the level of taxation does not need to grow?

Someone is certainly free to believe this, but hopefully they are rational in that belief and not extremists trying to sabotage the fiscal health of the nation. And this is the sort of irrationality the No New Taxes pledge has created. There, after all, two variables in a budget... spending... AND THE OTHER IS REVENUE. The GOP has become irrational on this issue... such as when a few years back they wrote as House rules for the session that spending had to be revenue neutral but they didn't have to make up for revenue lost for new tax cuts. And we must remember that it was the GOP that sabotaged debt paydown in 2001 with round after round of irresponsible tax cuts. Unlike Reagan Bush2 never tried to compensate for the devestating loss of revenue.

The use the no new taxes pledge is designed to deliberately run up debt... hoping debt will become crushing as a pretense to undermine programs they don't like... while preserving their own, of course. Massive debt can easily be seen as a threat to US security if we then lack the money to meet serious needs. So, YES... such pledges can interfere with the oath of office... but feel free to believe other wise.

Quote ulTRAX:

So, YES... such pledges can interfere with the oath of office... but feel free to believe other wise.

To be judged and punished by who?

Earlier in the thread criminal prosecution was advocated for, that was the focus of my first post in this thread that you responded to. Do you advocate for anything other than the ballot box? If no than we have no disagreement.

Quote gumball:

Quote ulTRAX:

So, YES... such pledges can interfere with the oath of office... but feel free to believe other wise.

To be judged and punished by who?

Earlier in the thread criminal prosecution was advocated for, that was the focus of my first post in this thread that you responded to.

RED HERRING ALERT: why not address the person who took that position. I NEVER DID.

Quote ulTRAX:

Quote gumball:

Quote ulTRAX:

So, YES... such pledges can interfere with the oath of office... but feel free to believe other wise.

To be judged and punished by who?

Earlier in the thread criminal prosecution was advocated for, that was the focus of my first post in this thread that you responded to.

RED HERRING ALERT: why not address the person who took that position. I NEVER DID.

EVASION ALERT!!!

I never said you did.

Do you advocate for anything other than the ballot box? If no than we have no disagreement.

There's no U.S.A., it's U.S.I. (or Israel West).

Term limits, term limits, term limits, T E R M L I M I T S ! ! ! !

What do you think career politician Bernie would say about term limits?

Do you know how many U.S. officials in high office have dual citizenship? Chair of the Democratic Party? Director of the Federal Reserve?

And now Bernie. Imagine, a U.S. president with dual citizenship.

Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

There's no U.S.A., it's U.S.I. (or Israel West).

Term limits, term limits, term limits, T E R M L I M I T S ! ! ! !

What do you think career politician Bernie would say about term limits?

Do you know how many U.S. officials in high office have dual citizenship? Chair of the Democratic Party? Director of the Federal Reserve?

And now Bernie. Imagine, a U.S. president with dual citizenship.

No, he does not. Stop spreading lies.

Quote gumball:

Quote ulTRAX:

Quote gumball:

To be judged and punished by who?

Earlier in the thread criminal prosecution was advocated for, that was the focus of my first post in this thread that you responded to.

RED HERRING ALERT: why not address the person who took that position. I NEVER DID.

EVASION ALERT!!!

I never said you did.

Gee Einstein... if I did not voice ANY opinion on that point... why TF do you keep asking me as if I wrote that post? Ask IRV.

Oh, I get it... so you don't really have to address questions I DID pose to you. Just more of the typical Gummie Two Step designed to disrupt the discussion.

I did address it, I said voters should be the judge and vote them out of office if they dislike a particular pledge. Who do you think should decide what campaign pledge violates the oath?

The only evidence I find on the internet of this so called AIPAC loyalty oath is on anti-Semitic sites and from that crazy McKinnon woman who was an outright Muslim who hated Jews.

Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

There's no U.S.A., it's U.S.I. (or Israel West).

Term limits, term limits, term limits, T E R M L I M I T S ! ! ! !

What do you think career politician Bernie would say about term limits?

Do you know how many U.S. officials in high office have dual citizenship? Chair of the Democratic Party? Director of the Federal Reserve?

And now Bernie. Imagine, a U.S. president with dual citizenship.

A lie perpetrated by anti-Semitic websites.

Quote gumball:

I did address it, I said voters should be the judge and vote them out of office if they dislike a particular pledge.

Are you on drugs? I'm still talking about that it wasn't me who suggested those who sign on to third party pledges should be punished... and you've moved on to another side issue where you answer your own question and confuse it with mine.

So what is the oath? This claim is all over the net but not one site I have seen posts the transcript of the "oath": would you pls post it here?

Quote TTTHHH:

So what is the oath? This claim is all over the net but not one site I have seen posts the transcript of the "oath": would you pls post it here?

Here is a link to the video of Cynthia McKinney discussing it in an interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_VNOk7Wv5A&list=PLZ8iuFShsBVCUMXxH-iKx5W33LXoI6z5I

Its not just Congress, apparently:

Israel Lobby Orders McGraw-Hill To Burn Textbooks And The Publisher Complies