WATER.......Privatize it? Pollute it? Sell it to the highest bidder? Spill oil into it? HELLO?

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I wonder how many abandoned mines are just sitting there with millions of gallons of toxic water (like the one that the EPA contractor accidently released into the river) just waiting to be compromised?

I just signed a petition which had nothing to do with the above statement but still has to do with water. The privatization of water. Here is the text. You can find this petition on Forcechange titled "Don't Let World Bank Privatize Sacred Water"

Target: World Bank Group President Jim Yong Kim

Goal: Stop attempts to steal water from a community that holds water sacred by privatizing and selling it.

The World Bank is trying to privatize the water in Lagos, Nigeria–a community that holds a sacred connection to the water that they should have free access to. The bank is trying to convince the people of the city that taking the water from the area and selling it to others at a ridiculous profit is good for them. However, history tells us that this would only be a disaster for the community.

Banks and corporations that privatize water inevitably drain all the vital water from the area and then take off, leaving the people there without a local water source and all the environmental and economic problems that creates. These water thieves don’t care anything about the communities they exploit and have been known to harass the people who try to stop them.

The World Bank has been pushing this privatization agenda for years, and in doing so have impeded the development of Lagos’ public water system. As a result, nine out of 10 persons in the area lack access to clean water. It’s time to run them out of town. Sign our petition to demand that the World Bank stop interfering with the development of public water projects and allow the people of Lagos their right to clean, affordable water.

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When I was trying to find a video "Blue Gold Water Wars" on YouTube, I came across this FUNNY video created by some neighborhood kids. Its good for some laughs so I thought I would post a link so you can enjoy a little break. I will see if I can find the other video movie too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVcbrM8mL4U

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I also came across this very interesting site!!! It seems to be spawned from the movie because there is a page where you can purchase the movie on the site. I guess I needed to add the word "world" to the title when searching. I'll try to see if the movie is still on YouTube and post a link here but I hope you got some laughs watching the kids video. I rarely have luck posting more than one working link but I will give it a try.

http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/actionplan/index.html

OK....it seems like the link below, takes you to a place to watch the entire movie.

http://www.moviefork.com/MovieDetails.cfm?Movie=770795763

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MrsBJLee
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Your link is just one step away from this actual YouTube site. Blue Gold : World Water Wars (Official Full Length Film).

Our small group of ecologically concerned people in this tiny spot on the globe where I live has "movie nights" where we get together, share some of the food we grow around here in a kind of 'pot luck' manner, and watch a generally informative movie of some kind. Often we have discussions afterwards. We don't even dream we have any effect on the way things are going in the world.

We recently had one of those events featuring this documentary, at my house, because most everyone else in the group is much more resistant to computer technology than I am, so I can do the YouTube downloading and streaming better than most, though I'm working on helping them. Good thing I don't expect much.

Water problems of this sort were envisioned by some of the people who were involved in what they thought was a good thing for the people of the world, kind of like the folks who created the atom bomb and eventually nuclear power generation: The Green Revolution. One of those original visionaries came into one of my Michigan State University ecology classes as a guest lecturer in 1972, slammed down his just written book about Water! on the podium, I think just to get everyone's attention, which he did.

He stood there for a moment as the room quieted, then announced: The Green Revolution is over; done; defeated. It has kicked off a series of feedback loops that will end in a water crisis in the 21st century that's beyond our wildest horror movie dreams. That will be combined with an over population crisis, and combined with an ecological crisis caused by the very agricultural industry we initiated to solve the worlds growing hunger crisis.

He went on to give a very compelling and scary lecture explaining why he believed that.

And here we are.

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.ren
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Quote .ren:

Your link is just one step away from this actual YouTube site. Blue Gold : World Water Wars (Official Full Length Film).

Our small group of ecologically concerned people in this tiny spot on the globe where I live has "movie nights" where we get together, share some of the food we grow around here in a kind of 'pot luck' manner, and watch a generally informative movie of some kind. Often we have discussions afterwards. We don't even dream we have any effect on the way things are going in the world.

We recently had one of those events featuring this documentary, at my house, because most everyone else in the group is much more resistant to computer technology than I am, so I can do the YouTube downloading and streaming better than most, though I'm working on helping them. Good thing I don't expect much.

Water problems of this sort were envisioned by some of the people who were involved in what they thought was a good thing for the people of the world, kind of like the folks who created the atom bomb and eventually nuclear power generation: The Green Revolution. One of those original visionaries came into one of my Michigan State University ecology classes as a guest lecturer in 1972, slammed down his just written book about Water! on the podium, I think just to get everyone's attention, which he did.

He stood there for a moment as the room quieted, then announced: The Green Revolution is over; done; defeated. It has kicked off a series of feedback loops that will end in a water crisis in the 21st century that's beyond our wildest horror movie dreams. That will be combined with an over population crisis, and combined with an ecological crisis caused by the very agricultural industry we initiated to solve the worlds growing hunger crisis.

He went on to give a very compelling and scary lecture explaining why he believed that.

And here we are.

What exactly was the title of that book he wrote and what was his name? You did read it RIGHT??

Here is something that just came in my email that I thought I should post under this topic.

"Known for healthy salmon runs, world-renowned plant diversity, deep, forested canyons and outstanding recreation, the publically owned lands of northwest California and southwest Oregon contain the headwaters of some of the premier wild rivers of the West.

But mining companies are asking the federal government to allow them to excavate a series of destructive nickel strip mines inside key tributaries of the federally designated Wild and Scenic Smith and Illinois Rivers in the heart of California and Oregon’s much loved Wild Rivers Coast. These devastating proposals would turn these pristine watersheds into a wasteland of haul roads, ore smelters, and piles of toxic mining waste."

"The Obama Administration is considering protection for roughly 100,000 acres of public land by withdrawing the area from mining for five years while Congress considers legislation—The Southwest Oregon Watershed and Salmon Protection Act—for more lasting protection. This "mineral withdrawal" will protect against new mining claims and require that existing claims are tested to determine legitimacy. The proposed withdrawal area would include the headwaters of the Wild and Scenic Smith and Illinois Rivers, as well as Hunter Creek and the Pistol River.

Do you choose Wild Rivers over wastelands?"

The above quotes were in a message from the "Rainforest Action Network"

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Water! was the title. I owned a copy, which of course I read after troubling to buy it, though his lecture was comprehensive. I generally don't take notes, too distracting, so I wanted the book for future reference. I lent it out years ago and never saw it again. Can't remember the professor's name anymore, and I can't find the book anywhere.

The various watersheds have been under competition for a long time now. It's not a new phenomenon. Of course the private interests want control. The mafiaso types that become corporate tend to like to work with the government if it can. The Godfather movies got that much right enough.

That struggle will not go away. In the end of it all, water is far more valuable than oil as a medium for transforming the sun's energy into something life sustaining. It does help to know that in order to understand what underlies much of the present Republican anti government extremism. It does take some effort to read the targeting propaganda for what it is.

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.ren
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michigan - the detroit area - is having issues with water prices. the detroit water system provides water for much of the surrounding area too. they keep raising the prices to offset the unpaid bills and other issues. the loss of people (mass exodus in 2008 era when jobs left was followed by snyder making it harder to get benefits for the poor). Snyder also cut the earned income credit - low wages - by 50% (he tried to remove but was shamed). also snyder raised taxes on pensions - retired people. so a lot of people who lost jobs left our state. detroit has more than 50% less residents. while most city residents are on fixed incomes -- or reduced pensions - raising their rates is even more of a hardship.

the majority of people that owe water bills - are not given shut off notices on a timely basis - so they get charged fee to turn back on, fee for being late, etc. all the fees and such are 'free money' to the water dept. the big businesses that owe hundreds of thousands of dollars -- would ask for a reduced bill if approached to pay -- so they just piss on the residents instead. this is how they 'make' money on bad times.

On the bright side, the muslim community collected $100,000 to pay off water bills for residents. So nice of them to support their neighbors!

Some of the losses are from the homeless occupying empty houses and rigging the electric and water to work. they are followed by those cutting the lines again -- but they just go to the next block or so.

When wages are barely keeping up with paying for necessities, you are not going to be spending money on a new roof, or fixing a broken window. Urban blight is another victim of low wages.

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Lore
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Quote Lore:

michigan - the detroit area - is having issues with water prices. the detroit water system provides water for much of the surrounding area too. they keep raising the prices to offset the unpaid bills and other issues. the loss of people (mass exodus in 2008 era when jobs left was followed by snyder making it harder to get benefits for the poor). Snyder also cut the earned income credit - low wages - by 50% (he tried to remove but was shamed). also snyder raised taxes on pensions - retired people. so a lot of people who lost jobs left our state. detroit has more than 50% less residents. while most city residents are on fixed incomes -- or reduced pensions - raising their rates is even more of a hardship.

the majority of people that owe water bills - are not given shut off notices on a timely basis - so they get charged fee to turn back on, fee for being late, etc. all the fees and such are 'free money' to the water dept. the big businesses that owe hundreds of thousands of dollars -- would ask for a reduced bill if approached to pay -- so they just piss on the residents instead. this is how they 'make' money on bad times.

On the bright side, the muslim community collected $100,000 to pay off water bills for residents. So nice of them to support their neighbors!

Some of the losses are from the homeless occupying empty houses and rigging the electric and water to work. they are followed by those cutting the lines again -- but they just go to the next block or so.

When wages are barely keeping up with paying for necessities, you are not going to be spending money on a new roof, or fixing a broken window. Urban blight is another victim of low wages.

Detroit has a very sad story indeed. The hospital I was born in no longer exists. The hospital my daughter was born in also no longer exists. I came back to visit neighborhoods I once lived in when I was growing up and one of them frightened me so bad because of all the boarded up and burned down homes, that I just left in a hurry instead of visiting my elementary school. It's such a shame.

I loved Detroit when I was growing up. Plum Street, Cass Tech., Grandie Ballroom, Easttown Theater, Greek Town, Motown music, motor city rock and roll.......oh and the Boblo Boat >> http://bobloboat.com/history.html

I left in 1978 to make music in CA. I am so sorry to hear about these water problems!I posted quite awhile back, a video I found showing the petro-coke clouds blowing from the big piles of petro-coke the Koch brothers had stored on the shore of Detroit near the Marathon Oil Refinery. There are lots of Michigan issues and who would ever think in a state with so MANY lakes that you would have water issues!

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Of course the link above didn't work! Here it is in working order.

http://bobloboat.com/history.html

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.ren would it be this Professor??

http://wn.com/professor_water

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MrsBJLee
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Maybe this one .ren??

http://www.yalebooks.com/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300176490

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All too young. This guy would have been in his mid fifties from how he looked in my memory from the time. Put that memory somewhere between 1972-1975, not exactly sure of the date of the class, but that's the period I was taking those ecology classes. Seemed like an earlier class, though they all sort of blend together non chronologically now. I think he'd be in his nineties now if he's still around.

I searched through the Library of Congress online catalog for Michigan State University's libraries with "Water!" and I ran out of time, not listings. It should be in there somewhere. He was an MSU professor as I recall, and had been enthusiastically involved with the Green Revolution program from back in the early fifties as I recall from the lecture. I assume MSU because it was one of the agricultural colleges that was part of it.

The thing is, you can just read what's going on now. It was precogged by him in the book.

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.ren
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While looking for the "Water" book I came across this pretty cool idea!

http://www.cnet.com/news/drinkable-book-provides-safe-drinking-water/

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I came across this group who are trying to help with water filters to areas that do not have clean water.

http://waterislife.com/about/why-wil

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I might have just found a useful tool for looking at world wide conflicts regarding WATER. Check out this link.....

http://worldwater.org/water-conflict/

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MrsBJLee
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Wow that link I posted above IS a cool tool for doing water research. I just went to the page with maps and zeroed in on this>>>

Germans pollute reservoir in Bohemia

Date: 1945
Parties: Romania, Germany
Basis: Military target
Violent: Yes

In one of the few verified German tactical uses of biological warfare, German forces pollute a large reservoir in northwestern Bohemia, Czechoslovakia with sewage in May 1945. See also the entry for the Pontine Marshes in 1944.

This is where my family on my mothers side came from. I'm glad they weren't there when this happened!

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Found this there too!!!! I didn't know about this!!!

Terrorist drill gets out of hand in California

Date: 2000
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No

A drill simulating a terrorist attack on the Nacimiento Dam in Monterey County, California got out of hand when two radio stations reported it as a real attack.

Bombs found at US bottling plant

Date: 2003
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: Yes

Four incendiary devices were found in the pumping station of a Michigan water-bottling plant. The Earth Liberation Front (ELF) claimed responsibility, accusing Ice Mountain Water Company of “stealing” water for profit. Ice Mountain is a subsidiary of Nestle Waters.

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OK.....THIS HITS TOO CLOSE TO HOME FOR ME!!!

Plan to poison Los Angeles water

Date: 1982
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No: Threat

Los Angeles police and the FBI arrest a man who was preparing to poison the city’s water supply with a biological agent.

References: Livingston 1982;
Eitzen and Takafuji 1997

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Los Angeles aqueduct bombed

Date: 1907–1913
Parties: Owens Valley, Los Angeles, California
Basis: Terrorism; Development dispute
Violent: Yes

The Los Angeles Valley aqueduct/pipeline suffers repeated bombings in an effort to prevent diversions of water from the Owens Valley to Los Angeles.

References: Reisner 1993

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Resident blows up gates diverting water to the Los Angeles Aqueduct

Date: 1976
Parties: United States
Basis: Development dispute; Terrorism
Violent: Property damage

Gates diverting water to the Los Angeles Aqueduct from the Owens Valley are dynamited, leading to 100 million gallons of water flows returning to Owens Lake.

References: Sahagun 2013

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HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT ANY OF THESE THAT I POSTED???

Terrorist targets water systems

Date: 2002
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No: Threat

Papers seized during the arrest of a Lebanese Imam at a mosque in Seattle include “instructions on poisoning water sources” from a London-based al Qaeda recruiter. The FBI issued a bulletin to computer security experts around the country indicating that al-Qaeda terrorists may have been studying American dams and water-supply systems in preparation for new attacks. “U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies have received indications that al-Qaeda members have sought information on Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition (SCADA) systems available on multiple SCADA-related Web sites,” reads the bulletin, according to SecurityFocus. “They specifically sought information on water supply and wastewater management practices in the U.S. and abroad.”

References: McDonnell and Meyer 2002;
MSNBC 2002

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Water violence in New Mexico

Date: 1870s to 1881
Parties: United States
Basis: Development dispute
Violent: Yes

Recurrent friction and eventual violent conflict over water rights in the vicinity of Tularosa, New Mexico involving villagers, ranchers, and farmers.

References: Rasch 1968

Cult plans to poison US waters

Date: 1985
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No

Law enforcement authorities discover that a small survivalist group in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas known as The Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA) has acquired a drum containing 30 gallons of potassium cyanide, with the apparent intent to poison water supplies in New York, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. CSA members believed that such attacks would make the Messiah return more quickly by punishing unrepentant sinners. The objective appeared to be mass murder in the name of a divine mission rather than to change government policy. The amount of poison possessed by the group is believed to have been insufficient to contaminate the water supply of even one city.

References: Tucker 2000;
NTI 2005

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Attempt to poison Chicago’s waters

Date: 1972
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No: Threat

Two members of the right-wing “Order of the Rising Sun” are arrested in Chicago with 30–40 kg of typhoid cultures with which they allegedly planned to poison the water supply in Chicago, St. Louis, and other cities. Experts say the plan is unlikely to cause health problems due to water chlorination.

References: Eitzen and Takafuji 1997

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WOW.....HOW COME WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT ALL OF THIS?? At least I haven't heard about all of these that I've posted. There are more but I'll let you check it out. Definitely a cool website!

Three US citizens arrested for planning attack on water treatment plant

Date: 2014
Parties: United States
Basis: Terrorism
Violent: No: Plan only

Three men in the state of Georgia are arrested for planning to attack water treatment plants, power grids, and other infrastructure in an effort to incite anti-government militias in the United States to fight the federal government. A criminal complaint charges them with conspiring to receive and possess firearms, specifically pipe bombs and thermite grenades. Thermite grenades are military-grade weapons typically used to destroy vehicles, weapons systems, and other equipment.

References: Brumback 2014;

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Just had to add this one.....

Elsipotog Nation protests over fracking impact to water resources in Canada

Date: 2013
Parties: Canada
Basis: Development dispute
Violent: Yes

Several injuries are reported and six police cars burned during a protest by members of the Elsipogtog First Nation in Canada over the impacts to local water resources from fracking operations.

References: CTV News 2013

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AND IF YOU LIVE IN MICHIGAN.......PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO ABOUT THE PIPELINE IN THE STRAITS OF MACKINAC!!!

http://tarsandssolutions.org/visuals/a-massive-oil-pipeline-under-the-gr...

It's time to ban together and figure out how to make Enbridge shut these twin pipes down before they spill NOT AFTER!!!

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Legally, the state says it would need to obtain a court order for a shutdown by convincing a judge that 1) Enbridge has been in clear violation of the 1953 easement terms or other state laws, 2) There's an "imminent threat" the pipelines will fail and 3) That such a threat "outweighed any interest in Enbridge continuing to operate the pipeline."

A court order would be an extraordinary action against a line that isn't leaking.

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Quote stwo:

Legally, the state says it would need to obtain a court order for a shutdown by convincing a judge that 1) Enbridge has been in clear violation of the 1953 easement terms or other state laws, 2) There's an "imminent threat" the pipelines will fail and 3) That such a threat "outweighed any interest in Enbridge continuing to operate the pipeline."

A court order would be an extraordinary action against a line that isn't leaking.

Let me get this straight.......

If a line isn't currently leaking there is really no hope of any action we take will actually shut it down even considering the forces exerted against it in the straits, clamps broken and even missing, and nothing at all under sections of pipe to keep it reinforced?

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Until American's wake the F up to DEMAND these WEALTHY CEO'S LIVE where they are making their WEALTH, leaving all the TOXIC CHEMICALS behind for everyday Americans, all while they can FLY OFF, IN THEIR PERSONAL AIRCRAFT, leaving us to eat, drink their Toxic Chemicals, NOTHING WILL CHANGE, until we, the People DEMAND, they LIVE where they are CREATING ALL THE NASTY TOXIC ... LEFT BEHIND, while they can AFFORD to LIVE where they haven't SCREWED up the land and country they can run and hide in!

Until, they are FORCED to LIVE ON THE LAND they DESTROY, they will NEVER CHANGE their EVIL GREEDY BEHAVIOR!

Colorado and that NASTY SPILL they are suffering, I PRAY you guys WAKE UP to MAKE these ENVIRONMENTAL LAND DESTROYER'S, LIVE WHERE THEY ARE DESTROYING THE LAND, WATER and OUR ENVIRONMENT!

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Dec. 7, 2012 12:35 pm

Regarding the Enbridge pipeline that is over 60 years old missing clamps and supports under the straits of Mackinac, I found this and wonder if it can be used to stop Enbridge.

The Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement 1972, 1978 (renewed) Reaffirmed the rights and obligations of both countries under the Boundary Waters Treaty and outlined a series of commitments to ensure protection of basin ecosystems

I guess we've have to review what is in the Boundary Waters Treaty. I believe this would fall under ensuring the protection of basin ecosystems.

Is there someone out here in Thom's land that can address this for the people in Michigan? Do we know if anyone is working on this??

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Wow I certainly stumble on things when doing my searches on the internet. I had to add this pdf that I found about "Off Shore Wind Energy, Understanding the Impacts on Great Lakes Fishery and Other Aquatic Resources" because it also has to do with the Great Lakes.

http://www.glc.org/files/docs/2013-fishery-impact-workshop-summary.pdf

I've been on the fence regarding all wind turbines because of their noise, killing birds, what they are made of, how they are left to burn when on fire. I'll have to come back and read this but I wanted to share it with you all.

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I found a pretty good article. Of course it doesn't answer all of my questions. It seems to be more up to date on the pipeline under the straits of Mackinac

The task force said with "so much at stake," neither the state nor public has enough information to independently evaluate Enbridge's conclusions. The report found, for instance, that much of the pipelines are heavily encrusted with invasive species that hurt visibility, and that Enbridge — citing confidentiality — did not provide results of most inspections.

With so MUCH at stake for HUMANITY and WILDLIFE, you would think citing confidentiality would be considered out of the question. Results of those inspections should be gladly put forth to PROVE they have the best interests of the environment in mind. Here is a link to the article. If it doesn't work on this comment I will post it on the next comment.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/michigan-ban-heavy-oil-straits-mackinac-pipeli...

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The Oil and Water Don't Mix campaign claims that, based on federal data, Enbridge has spilled oil 1,068 times across the company footprint between 1999 and 2013, totaling 7.4 million gallons. A different section of Line 5 had a bad spill about fifteen years ago, when about 220,000 gallons of oil and natural gas liquids fouled an Iron County marsh in 1999.

Infrastructure security concerns at the federal level have made pipeline information difficult to access for the public. Even the state had trouble getting detailed inspection reports out of Enbridge, which asserts the line is fine and inspected regularly.

The state expressed frustration with the lack of transparency in its report:

"While Enbridge has publicly listed the numbers and types of pipeline inspections that it or its contractors have performed, it has not fully disclosed the actual results of most of the inspections or the limitations of the test methods used. By not providing the State with actual copies of test results and other State-requested documents, based upon assertions of confidentiality, Enbridge has limited opportunities for independent expert review."

"It's easy for an environmental group to call for it to be shut down based on the existence of an indeterminable future threat to the environment," said Brad Wurfel, spokesperson for the DEQ. The situational reality is a "heck of a lot more complex."

Although the federal government's interstate pipeline regulator, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, or PHMSA, could step in, it would be extremely unlikely to order a pipeline shut down unless a spill were either imminent or had already happened. The age of Line 5 is not as concerning to them as one might think. If constructed and maintained correctly, the life of any given pipeline is, in PHMSA's words, "virtually endless."

Are we supposed to believe that this company wouldn't LIE?? Do we really have to believe when they refuse to turn over testing results, that they are not hiding flaws they have had to repair? I can't believe we can be pushed around and told basically to go screw ourselves they are going to do what they want, like it or not.

Enbridge has no plans to replace Line 5. In its online operational plan, the company says the twin lines are in "excellent condition" thanks to regular maintenance and inspections have "not seen any deterioration requiring repair activities."

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/why_the_state_wont_shut_down_t.html#incart_related_stories

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"I think this really needs to be the one-two punch of federal and state efforts because of the potential impact and risk involved," Stabenow told reporters following a Great Lakes issues meeting with regional environmental stewards held at the Grand Rapids Public Museum on Wednesday, Aug. 12.

"I do think the DEQ (Department of Environmental Quality) ought to do more in pipeline oversight," said Stabenow, who said Enbridge's Line 5 crosses 11 different tributaries in the western Upper Peninsula and "I'm told some of that pipe is not as thick as what's under the Great Lakes and it's more like the pipe that spilled in the Kalamazoo River."

Her comments follow a state task force report released in July that recommends a third party risk analysis be conduced on the Enbridge Line 5 pipeline under the straits, which environmental groups and others fear could rupture and spill oil.

Recommendations in the report, prepared after a yearlong joint inquiry by the DEQ and the attorney general's office, potentially allow for, among other things, increased state involvement in oversight of interstate petroleum pipelines.

Currently, oversight of interstate oil pipelines falls to the federal Pipeline Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA), which regulates the design, construction, operation and maintenance of petroleum pipelines.

Gov. Rick Snyder and the Michigan legislature have yet to take action on recommendation in the report, which was released July 14.

REPUBLICAN GOV. RICK SNYDER is yet to take action. SHAME ON HIM!!

WHAT IS HE WAITING FOR? Does he have investments that would be hurt if this pipeline is shut down? WHO IS HE WORKING FOR? THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN OR A CANADIAN OIL COMPANY? SHUT IT DOWN!!!

Quoting another article below....

Congressman Dan Benicshek, (R-Iron River), told Emmet County Republicans, the day after the protest, that he had only heard about the event and did not know the details.

“I want the pipeline safe,” he said at a Petoskey women’s luncheon. “We need to have pipelines.”

Sara Wurfel, Gov. Rick Snyder’s press secretary, told Dome that while the primary responsibility for pipeline safety lies with the federal administration, the governor has been in touch with the PHMSA recently regarding the Michigan pipelines and has asked to be kept apprised of any decisions that they make.

“We have also spoken with all companies with infrastructure in the Mackinac Straits to ensure they are aware of opportunities to collaborate and reduce costs for any infrastructure improvements that may be undertaken in that area,” she said.

“While this pipeline is not known to be leaking in any way or an imminent threat to environment or energy, we appreciate that people have concerns about it and fossil fuels.”

I CAN'T BELIEVE how they just try and pretend nothing could possibly go wrong.

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MrsBJLee
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H e l l o ........ no one seems interested in this topic and I certainly cannot understand why! Water is so important to us. No water...no life!!

Of course I have not completely read the Great Lakes Water Agreements but so far it is covering withdrawls by drinking water companies and the like. I am trying to find something that would cover the pipelines under the straits of Mackinac.

Anyone else reading it? If you spot something please post it. THANKS.

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MrsBJLee
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FYI

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2015/08/why_the_state_w...

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MrsBJLee
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Hi Mrs. B,

I am interested just don't have anything worthwhile to add. Only reason Embridge don't want to release their inspection because of "confidentiality" is most likely its not a good report for them and to their bottom line nor to their INVESTORS/STOCK HOLDERS.

It's about the money you know. the only thing capitalist/fascist care.

smilingcat
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Quote smilingcat:

Hi Mrs. B,

I am interested just don't have anything worthwhile to add. Only reason Embridge don't want to release their inspection because of "confidentiality" is most likely its not a good report for them and to their bottom line nor to their INVESTORS/STOCK HOLDERS.

It's about the money you know. the only thing capitalist/fascist care.

Of course the reports and test results can't be good or they would be proud to show them.

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MrsBJLee
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Feb. 17, 2012 8:45 am

This just in from the EPA......

EPA Releases Draft Hydraulic Fracturing Drinking Water Assessment

On June 4th, the EPA released a draft assessment on the potential impacts to drinking water resources from hydraulic fracturing activities, along with nine final peer-reviewed EPA reportsconducted as part of the study. The draft assessment is based upon extensive review of literature, results from EPA research projects, and technical input from state, industry, non-governmental organizations, the public, and other stakeholders. The assessment follows the water used for hydraulic fracturing from water acquisition, to chemical mixing at the well pad site, to well injection of fracking fluids, to the collection of hydraulic fracturing wastewater (including flowback and produced water), to wastewater treatment and disposal. To comment on the report, visit the docket established by the Science Advisory Board.

Read the press release for more information.

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MrsBJLee
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2015 News Releases EPA Releases Draft Assessment on the Potential Impacts to Drinking Water Resources from Hydraulic Fracturing Activities

Release Date: 06/04/2015
Contact Information: Julia P. Valentine, valentine.julia@epa.gov, (202) 564-2663, (202) 564-4355

Assessment shows hydraulic fracturing activities have not led to widespread, systemic impacts to drinking water resources and identifies important vulnerabilities to drinking water resources.

I tried to add the link but it was too long and wouldn't work. Sorry!

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MrsBJLee
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What do YOU think of the EPA's report?

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MrsBJLee
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Assessment of the Potential Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing for Oil and Gas on Drinking Water Resources (External Review Draft)

Abstract

This assessment provides a review and synthesis of available scientific literature and data to assess the potential for hydraulic fracturing for oil and gas to impact the quality or quantity of drinking water resources, and identifies factors affecting the frequency or severity of any potential impacts. The scope of this assessment is defined by the hydraulic fracturing water cycle which includes five main activities:

  1. Water acquisition – the withdrawal of ground or surface water needed for hydraulic fracturing fluids;
  2. Chemical mixing – the mixing of water, chemicals, and proppant on the well pad to create the hydraulic fracturing fluid;
  3. Well injection – the injection of hydraulic fracturing fluids into the well to fracture the geologic formation;
  4. Flowback and Produced water – the return of injected fluid and water produced from the formation to the surface, and subsequent transport for reuse, treatment, or disposal; and
  5. Wastewater treatment and waste disposal – the reuse, treatment and release, or disposal of wastewater generated at the well pad, including produced water.

This report can be used by federal, tribal, state, and local officials; industry; and the public to better understand and address vulnerabilities of drinking water resources to hydraulic fracturing activities.

Executive Summary, Hydraulic Fracturing Study - Draft Assessment 2015

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.ren
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Quote MrsBJLee:

What do YOU think of the EPA's report?

I already wrote some of what I thought on June 4 (here) June 5 (here and here) in several responses on a thread stimulated by this poorly conceived article, EPA Finds No Widespread Drinking Water Pollution From Fracking, that came out when the draft report was made available to the public so that we could then respond (the following can be found on a descriptive page for the above linked Executive Sumary):

Next Steps

The draft assessment will undergo a rigorous peer review by EPA’s Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) and will be open to public review and comment. For information on SAB’s review process for the draft assessment please visit:

Assessment of the Potential Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing for Oil and Gas on Drinking Water Resources

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.ren
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For anyone interested, the following interactive information can be found on this page:

Assessment of the Potential Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing for Oil and Gas on Drinking Water Resources

Federal Register Notices Announcing Public Meetings:

Title: Notification of Teleconferences and a Public Meeting of the Science Advisory Board Hydraulic Fracturing Research Advisory Panel

Type: Public Meeting

Citation: 80 108 32111 -32113

Publication Date: 06/05/2015

Public Meetings and/or Teleconferences:

10/28/2015 to 10/30/2015, Hydraulic Fracturing Research Advisory Panel review of EPA draft Assessment Report on Hydraulic Fracturing

10/19/2015 to 10/19/2015, Hydraulic Fracturing Research Advisory Panel review of EPA draft Assessment Report on Hydraulic Fracturing

10/01/2015 to 10/01/2015, Hydraulic Fracturing Research Advisory Panel review of EPA draft Assessment Report on Hydraulic Fracturing

09/30/2015 to 09/30/2015, Hydraulic Fracturing Research Advisory Panel review of EPA draft Assessment Report on Hydraulic Fracturing

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.ren
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.ren THANK YOU for posting those links!

I have not had the time to read all of the information there. I wanted to post it so hopefully someone did want to get into it.

I was outraged at what I had posted without even getting into the details of the actual report! It appears the EPA has been bought and paid for.

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MrsBJLee
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Quote MrsBJLee:

.ren THANK YOU for posting those links!

I have not had the time to read all of the information there. I wanted to post it so hopefully someone did want to get into it.

I was outraged at what I had posted without even getting into the details of the actual report! It appears the EPA has been bought and paid for.

I think this is a true statement: The EPA is a bureaucracy within a set of U.S. government bureaucracies.

I see all bureaucracies as a kind of machinery that is designed by humans to work for human society. The people within the bureaucracies are not any more than that, people working within a legally constructed, hierarchical setting and must conduct their jobs as prescribed according to the rules by which those hierarchies are composed. The Institution we call "The Presidency" is the uppermost level of hierarchical management control in that U.S Government bureaucratic set.

If you look into the history of the EPA, I think you will discover that it was created in the first place by a somewhat management-frustrated president/CEO, Richard Nixon, through an executive order, to enhance the Presidencies' ability to manage an emerging hydra-headed variety of legislatively created, human health-related, environmentally-oriented bureaucracies that "the People" through their legislative representatives were creating back in that era. It's the president's job to manage and so Nixon invited a bunch of management experts to come help him design a macro management agency. Out of that process the EPA was born.

The EPA is, therefore, a hierarchical organization, led by an Administrator, who is appointed by the President and approved by Congress. It is not a Cabinet department, though the EPA Administrator is normally considered a cabinet level rank. The means the EPA Administrator has some influence when talking to the president.

Whenever I judge the EPA and its effectiveness I keep all that in mind.

You could, therefore, conclude that whatever "owns" and "controls" the presidency and congress, be it the people and or the chief players in our economic system, also, by extension, "owns" and "controls" the EPA.

The law of the land is, in the end, also subservient to the owners and controllers of the government. The law is simply a legal construct (though a very complex one) designed to, hopefully, make certain the governing system remains fair for all.

For instance, if we all want to live by an economic system that is in the final analysis, destructive and deadly to life on the planet, and if we are completely dependent on the whole of that biospheric life for our own existence as a species, as some of us believe, we as a body politic all therefore choose to live by a system that is also deadly to ourselves. That's our choice. This economic system we all live by is our choice. We make that choice by what we do within that system every day.

Therefore, our law and the legal system all the way up to the Supreme Court, is only there make certain that what we decide to do (commit mass suicide by our cumulative economic choice) is done fairly for all. The law was not designed to be an almighty being charged with concern for our ultimate well being. I don't expect that from the law.

You could also note that these political players -- the ordinary people within the political system who vote, the powerful economic institutions (like the energy companies, the insurance companies, the banking companies and so forth) -- are competing political interests in an ongoing social process that have to figure out how to play by the rules to get their interests in play in society. That is, you can consider that to be true if we really are a nation living by the rule of law. And if that's true, then it can be expected that the cleverest, most energetic, and in the final analysis, the most powerful influences, have a great deal to say about what the EPA is actually able to accomplish according to its legal requirements as legislated.

The EPA report is going to reflect that because it is subservient to the political process. Having been in a similar situation as a technical writer, I am aware that the writers and editors of the report are taking all that into consideration as they prepare to put their assessment together for public comment.

With that in mind I wrote the following post on June 5, the day after the Executive Summary and other aspects of the draft assessment were made public so that we could begin the legal process of making the legally required public commentary on this assessment -- which is where we still are, by the way:

Quote .ren:

My first response to the title was: what do they mean by "widespread drinking water pollution"?

I read the article. No satisfaction there.

So I found the study and read the Executive Summary. I'm still a bit befuddled with their juxtaposition of statements in paragraphs at this point but it seems that they are taking the broad view on drinking water resources with statements like this that follow a very general explanation of various mechanism that could impact water resources on page ES-6:

We did not find evidence that these mechanisms have led to widespread, systemic impacts on drinking water resources in the United States.

Following that statement is:

Of the potential mechanisms identified in this report, we found specific instances where one or more mechanisms led to impacts on drinking water resources, including contamination of drinking water wells. The number of identified cases, however, was small compared to the number of hydraulically fractured wells.

Then we get this broad brush stroke:

Water is a major component of nearly all hydraulic fracturing operations. It typically makes up almost 90% or more of the fluid volume injected into a well, and each hydraulically fractured well requires thousands to millions of gallons of water. Cumulatively, hydraulic fracturing activities in the United States used on average 44 billion gal of water a year in 2011 and 2012, according to the EPA’s analysis of FracFocus disclosures. Although this represents less than 1% of total annual water use and consumption at this scale, water withdrawals could potentially impact the quantity and quality of drinking water resources at more local scales.1

Note too that the report is more generally about national water resources, and only in specifics about fracking's potential for pollution. This is indicated in the title: Assessment of the Potential Impacts of Hydraulic Fracturing for Oil and Gas on Drinking Water Resources

Writers of this Draft "not to be cited or quoted" are careful to point out its limits:

Additionally, this report does not discuss the potential impacts of hydraulic fracturing on other water users (e.g., agriculture or industry), other aspects of the environment (e.g., seismicity, air quality, or ecosystems), worker health or safety, or communities. Furthermore, this report is not a human health risk assessment. It does not identify populations that are exposed to chemicals, estimate the extent of exposure, or estimate the incidence of human health impacts.

This can lead to confusion when reading an article that makes certain claims in its title, especially when the writer juxtaposes statements from EPA spokespersons about impacts on drinking water resources in a general and national sense with the very general notion of pollution.

Please read the Executive Summary. I personally do not find that it makes this statement that leads the brief and completely unsatisfying article about this EPA study:

Quote Jeff Brady:

The Environmental Protection Agency says it has found no evidence that hydraulic fracturing — better known as fracking — has led to widespread pollution of drinking water. The oil industry and its backers welcome the long-awaited study, while environmental groups criticize it.

In the ES the EPA lists the states where fracking takes place and goes into showing and discussing the local areas where contaminations have occurred, and lists in a bit more detail how those contaminations have occurred and why. Even this Executive Summary level of detail can be mind numbing to those not accustomed to reading technical documents. In Chapter 4, page 13, they provide a very nice map of the existing fracking locations. Chapters can be downloaded on this page.

In a some frustration of what is meant by "Widespread" and EPA's notion of total US water resources, I had downloaded Chapter 3. On page 3.3 I find they are definitely considering the entire U.S. when they use the concept "Widespread."

So what does a "small" percentage mean to a technocrat? What will it mean to the conglomeration of far less technically informed politicians in the House and Senate?

We can use our divining rods to guess from paragraphs like these:

Cumulatively, hydraulic fracturing uses billions of gallons of water each year at the national and state scales, and even in some counties. As noted above, hydraulic fracturing water use and consumption are generally less than 1% of total annual water use and consumption at these scales. However, there are a few counties in the United States where these percentages are higher. For 2011 and 2012, annual hydraulic fracturing water use was 10% or more compared to 2010 total annual water use in 6.5% of counties with FracFocus disclosures analyzed by the EPA, 30% or more in 2.2% of counties, and 50% or more in 1.0% of counties. Consumption estimates followed the same general pattern. In these counties, hydraulic fracturing is a relatively large user and consumer of water.

And this on page 3-11 of the report:

The colocation of hydraulic fracturing activities with drinking water resources increases the potential for these activities to affect the quality and quantity of current and future drinking water resources. While close proximity of hydraulically fractured wells to drinking water resources does not necessarily indicate that an impact has or will occur, information about the relative location of wells and water supplies is an initial step in understanding where potential impacts might occur.

Millions of people live in areas where their drinking water resources are located near hydraulically fractured wells. While most hydraulic fracturing activity from 2000 to 2013 did not occur in close proximity to public water supplies, a sizeable number of hydraulically fractured wells (21,900) were located within 1 mile of at least one PWS source (e.g., infiltration galleries, intakes, reservoirs, springs and ground water wells). Approximately 6,800 sources of drinking water for public water systems, serving more than 8.6 million people year-round, were located within 1 mile of at least one hydraulically fractured well. An additional 3.6 million people obtain drinking water from private systems in counties with at least one hydraulically fractured well and in which at least 30% of the population is reliant on private water systems. This

The report does offer some answers for their meaning of "small" with technical details and numbers. Now it's up to us to determine what "small" really means to us as a society and then raise the question: are we willing allow what goes with "small"?

But maybe that question will be dealt with in another study. Meanwhile: Frack baby Frack!

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.ren
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We Know How Far Trump Will Go - How Far Will Republicans Go?

Thom plus logo Colonel Vindman's testimony pretty much proves that Trump was trying to shake down Ukraine for information on Biden, and that the Republicans are doing everything they can to cover up this extortion attempt.
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