Donald Trump’s Secret Weapon

On July 23, 2016, we discontinued our forums. We ask our members to please join us in our new community site, The Hartmann Report. Please note that you will have to register a new account on The Hartmann Report.

42 posts / 0 new

GOP presidential hopeful Donald Trump's campaign released a written statement on Monday calling for "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States."

Unlike your average politician whose mouth is only a mouth (kinda like some cigars) used mostly for speechifying, delivering sound bites to the media, and guzzling beer with the rest of us, Donald Trump’s mouth is a multipurpose orifice of suprahuman versatility. Not only can his mouth speak, eat and pout like other humans’ mouths, but it can also lay an egg, projectile poop, squirt bile, fart toxic gasses, breed bollocks, blow bubbles of hot air, and often do all of it simultaneously.

In short, Donald Trump’s mouth is not a mouth at all. Hello, it’s a cloaca. This would be consistent with my previous suspicions that he may be more reptilian than human.

And that’s not all. Very much like the humble, though attractively shaped, Echiura, or spoon worm, Trump’s brain is housed in his proboscis, or, more colloquially, his nose. But that’s okay. It’s a very small brain and doesn’t need much room for the minimal tasks he demands of it.

Only last week, his cloaca extruded this smelly bit of paranoid fantasy: “...there is something going on with him that we don’t know about,” in reference to President Obama’s refusal to use the term “radical Islamic terrorism;” and that reminds us all of Trump’s previous questioning Obama’s birthplace and false claiming that the President practices Islam. http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-donald-trump-jewish-group-20151203-story.html

So, there you have it, for now. I’m sure there’s more to come, given the nature of his speech impediment, or “secret weapon,” if you prefer.

By the way, no apologies: In previous incarnations, I have railed against the dehumanization of the enemy. But see, the enemy has to start out as human, before it can be dehumanized. And anyway, I allow myself a bit of inconsistency here and there: “consistency is not really a human trait,” as the great hippy philosopher, Dame Marjorie "Maude" Chardin, told Harold in Harold and Maude.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Comments

I would like someone to take a picture of muslims, christians and hebrews of every nationality, ethnicity and or/ appearance and have Mr. Trump identify who he wants to banish. My bet is he can't do it. No one can 100%. So the solution has no promise of success. What of converts behind prison walls? There is always a problem with simple solutions without critical thinking. Sounding good to some, but a catastrophy for all.

Ron Phelps's picture
Ron Phelps
Joined:
Dec. 7, 2015 9:07 am
Quote Ron Phelps:I would like someone to take a picture of muslims, christians and hebrews of every nationality, ethnicity and or/ appearance and have Mr. Trump identify who he wants to banish. My bet is he can't do it. No one can 100%. So the solution has no promise of success. What of converts behind prison walls? There is always a problem with simple solutions without critical thinking. Sounding good to some, but a catastrophy for all.

Absolutely.

As I’m sure you can tell, Ron, I have nothing but contempt for this slimeball. And, while I’ve enjoyed making fun of him, it’s quite clear to me that there’s nothing fun about the reality surrounding the phenomenon of Donald Trump— the atmosphere of intolerance and the indulgence of bigotry in his camp, among his followers, has the tinge of nothing less than fascism.

It’s one of those ugly times in history, when humor becomes our only refuge. Here’s one of Mark Fiore’s takes on the subject: YOUR TRUMP TONIGHT

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

ISIS must love Donald Trump. His rhetoric corroborates and validates their propaganda. Not only that, it makes us less safe from so-called terrorist attacks within the United States, by contributing to the atmosphere of discrimination and hate against Muslims. That atmosphere can only inspire feelings of alienation from American communities, feelings that cause some to act out in irrational ways.

Quote Democracy Now:

NICOLAS HÉNIN: Well, this huge flow of refugees is a major recruiting argument for populist political parties across Europe. And that’s another trap, because actually this refugee crisis was a major blow to the Islamic State and to its propaganda. Because what does the Islamic State propaganda rely on? First, they say Western society is not suitable for a Muslim to live in. A Muslim should emigrate to a Muslim land, and preferably to the caliphate, because this caliphate that we are establishing is the dream land for all Muslims. And the other aspect, the other key point of ISISpropaganda, is based on the fact that Westerners marginalize Muslim, that there is racism and hatred.

And basically, what have we witnessed last summer? First, hundreds of thousands of Muslims fleeing this dream land of Syria. It’s like—it’s just like if you had loads of Jews fleeing Israel just a couple of years after the state of Israel is established. I mean, that’s a—it contradicts all of the speech the state is based on and contracts itself on. And not only that, so they leave this land of sham, that is dream land for ISIS, to immigrate to lands of unbelievers, and on top of that, they are welcomed with open arms by the Western societies, who—and by many people in Europe who say, "Well, you are our brothers, and we will protect you."

And that was so much a blow that I believe that one of the reasons behind the Paris attack was to disrupt this and to stop, to make us close our doors to the refugees, because, actually, welcoming refugees is not a terror threat to us, to our countries. It’s like a vaccine to protect us from terrorism, because the more interactions we have between societies, between communities, the less there will be tensions. I mean, the Islamic State believes in a global confrontation. What they want eventually is civil war in our countries, or at least large unrest, and in the Middle East, a large-scale war. This is what they look for. This is what they struggle for. So we have to kill their narrative and actually to welcome refugees, totally destroy their narrative. And if you kill their narrative, it’s even more efficient than if you drop some bombs and kill some of their fighters. http://www.democracynow.org/2015/12/7/former_isis_hostage_nicolas_henin_welcoming

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Donald Trumps popularity stems from the fact he says outrageous things that millions and millions of Americans, both democrat and republican, secretly believe. Do not underestimate this man, he knows exactly what he is doing.

The left wing version of Donald Trump is a socialist named Bernie Sanders who also says outrageous things that his followers secretly believe.

Both are bloviating buffoons, but Trump may actually be elected president.

hollygolightly's picture
hollygolightly
Joined:
Jul. 28, 2015 6:49 am

southern poverty law center.org/news/2011/03/29/anti-muslim-incidents-sept-11-2001

• Sept. 15, 2001 – Mesa, Arizona
Balbir Singh Sodhi, a 49-year-old Sikh and native of India, was fatally shot outside his gas station by Frank Silva Roque, who mistakenly believed Sodhi was Muslim. Roque then allegedly fired shots at a man of Lebanese descent working at another gas station, and at an Afghan family’s residence.

• Sept. 15, 2001 – Dallas, Texas
Waqar Hasan, a 46-year-old Pakistani immigrant, was shot to death in his convenience store. Mark Stroman, who allegedly said he was angry with people of Middle Eastern descent after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, was charged with Hasan’s murder. Stroman was also charged with the Oct. 4 murder of Vasudev Patel, a 49-year-old native of India, at a gas station convenience store in Mesquite, Texas.

MSNBC has some posters claiming the muslim in the WH is not keeping Americans safe after San Bernardino and she said a gop president with the bible and 2nd amendment will, because Obama the muslim is taking their guns and repealing the 2nd.
Sept. 29, 2001 – Reedley, California
Abdo Ali Ahmed, a 51-year-old Yemeni man, was shot to death outside his convenience store. Two days earlier a note reading, “We’re going to kill all (expletive) Arabs,” was left on his car windshield.
The posters saying the muslimis not keeping them safe like W did when 5000 were killed on 911 and another 5000 killed while creating more terrorists by destroying their country, killing their families, ending their medical practices by bombing their hospitals and clinics for no reason at all other than Cheney's Halliburton contracts for Iraq.

The CA American couple did what 354 other armed disgruntled Americans did earlier this year and 365 armed disgruntled Americans did in 2013, they shoot and kill innocent people. No one stopped the 719 other shooters, but Obama was supposed to stop these two? He didn't because he's a muslim and they were muslims. There are some serious mental health issues in that country. The majority of gop voters are paranoid if not paranoid schizophrenics.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Did we not already attend this dance?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/world/in-sweden-the-land-of-the-open-door-anti-muslim-sentiment-finds-a-foothold.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/sweden-farright-plans-gay-pride-muslim-area-lgbt-150728180328656.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/02/05/384096505/swedens-immigrant-influx-unleashes-a-backlash

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/25/AR2010102505374.html

Need I go on??

hollygolightly's picture
hollygolightly
Joined:
Jul. 28, 2015 6:49 am

Quote hollygolightly:

Donald Trumps popularity stems from the fact he says outrageous things that millions and millions of Americans, both democrat and republican, secretly believe.

I do believe you would be hard pressed to find “millions and millions” of Democrats who “secretly believe” much of anything The Donald has to say. We like to leave that sort of gullibility and ignorance to the “millions and millions” of Republicans who can’t tell their arses from their knobby knees.

Quote hollygolightly:

Do not underestimate this man, he knows exactly what he is doing.

Oh, I don’t underestimate the man. I estimate his importance to the national discourse in accordance with his ability to raise the consciousness of the masses— that is, at Zero. However, I do not underestimate the capacity of his followers for deep stupidity. Thus, it’s entirely possible he’ll be the Republican nominee and even may win the presidency. I mean, after all, Arnold became the governor of California! Never doubt the power of celebrity in America. We’re such a pack of dumbasses, anything can happen.

Quote hollygolightly:

The left wing version of Donald Trump is a socialist named Bernie Sanders who also says outrageous things that his followers secretly believe.

Both are bloviating buffoons, but Trump may actually be elected president.

Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, for one thing. For another, I challenge you to find one “outrageous thing,” one stupid thing, one lie, on the Donald Trump level of stupidity and lies, that Bernie has ever said. I dare you to post those, Holly. That should be interesting.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote douglaslee:

southern poverty law center.org/news/2011/03/29/anti-muslim-incidents-sept-11-2001

...The posters saying the muslimis not keeping them safe like W did when 5000 were killed on 911 and another 5000 killed while creating more terrorists by destroying their country, killing their families, ending their medical practices by bombing their hospitals and clinics for no reason at all other than Cheney's Halliburton contracts for Iraq.

The CA American couple did what 354 other armed disgruntled Americans did earlier this year and 365 armed disgruntled Americans did in 2013, they shoot and kill innocent people. No one stopped the 719 other shooters, but Obama was supposed to stop these two? He didn't because he's a muslim and they were muslims. There are some serious mental health issues in that country. The majority of gop voters are paranoid if not paranoid schizophrenics.

How true, how true. And thanks for that link, Doug. Sheesh. What a list.

We saw a loon wolf attack Planned Parenthood just last week, killing three innocent people. It’s clear now that his motivation for the attack was religious extremism— that is, Christian radicalism, if you will. But do you see any presidential candidate calling for the expulsion of “pro-life” Christians from the country, or Donald Trump insisting that we refuse all anti-abortion Christians entry into the U.S., or do we see outright harassment, abuse or discrimination against them? We don’t, as far as I can tell. If the Southern Poverty Law Center has a similar list of anti-ProLife crimes, please correct me now.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

vox.com/2015/12/4/9845146/mass-shootings-gun-control

(Mooney later gathered that research in his somewhat unfortunately titled book The Republican Brain.)

Mooney quotes psychologist John Jost and colleagues, writing in Behavioral and Brain Sciences:

There is by now evidence from a variety of laboratories around the world using a variety of methodological techniques leading to the virtually inescapable conclusion that the cognitive-motivational styles of leftists and rightists are quite different.

So, different how?

Jost and colleagues were responding positively to this paper by the University of Nebraska's John Hibbing, which argues, based on a series of experiments, that conservatives display a strong "negativity bias":

In this article, we argue that one organizing element of the many differences between liberals and conservatives is the nature of their physiological and psychological responses to features of the environment that are negative. Compared with liberals, conservatives tend to register greater physiological responses to such stimuli and also to devote more psychological resources to them.

Other research has traced this effect in part to the physiological level, finding thatconservatives have larger right amygdalae. (The amygdala is a cluster of neurons in the brain's medial temporal lobe thought to regulate basic pleasure and fear responses; many psychological conditions, including anxiety and PTSD, have been traced to abnormal functioning of the amygdala.)

Heightened sensitivity to negative stimuli can mean a propensity for anxiety, fear, and occasionally alarm. If fear threatens loss of control, many traits common to conservatives can be seen as efforts to reassert control. As Jost and colleagues summarize: "Research consistently finds that conservatism is positively associated with heightened epistemic concerns for order, structure, closure, certainty, consistency, simplicity, and familiarity, as well as existential concerns such as perceptions of danger, sensitivity to threat, and death anxiety."

Conservatives don't like new because that requires learning, they hate learning and are so bad at it. Old dogs get put down not taught new tricks. They like authoritarians because it removes responsibility for their own actions because they have no actions of their own.

Facts do not work either.

Yet another way to frame the difference: Yale psychologist Dan Kahan, whose cultural cognition work Ezra has written about before, divides worldviews along two dimensions, hierarchical vs. egalitarian and individualist vs. communitarian. This creates a four-quadrant space; conservatives are hierarchical-individualists*

.

There is a chart showing polarization history. It was least from 1932 to 1980. FDR built the middle class. Reagan started tearing it apart and destroying it and polarization is now as high as it was during the last guilded age before the middle class was created. The GOP requires a violent society that causes the fear and anxiety that their base has in abundance and seeks authoritarian solutions to.

*They think they are individualists but carrying a gun is not individualist when everyone else is carrying a gun. Shooting up workplaces or ex-wives' homes is not individualist when 759 other people shot the hell out of someplace or someone in the last two years. Gun nuts are a dime a dozen and they all act the same way and shout the same rubbish while ignoring the same facts and evidence.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Fear factor works very well on Republicans. They are very fearful, thus the number of guns. Remember the mid-term elections, Ebola was going to spread theoughout the country.

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 7:46 am
Quote Zenzoe:

Quote hollygolightly:

The left wing version of Donald Trump is a socialist named Bernie Sanders who also says outrageous things that his followers secretly believe.

Both are bloviating buffoons, but Trump may actually be elected president.

Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, for one thing. For another, I challenge you to find one “outrageous thing,” one stupid thing, one lie, on the Donald Trump level of stupidity and lies, that Bernie has ever said. I dare you to post those, Holly. That should be interesting.

Democratic socialist, shemacratic socialist. If it walks like a duck, and it certainly raves like a duck..........

I don't have to list Sanders outrageous talking points. Every one of his speeches is the same rant. "Free everything" , the "government will provide for all" "we don't need no stinkin corporations" , "profit is evil". Even working union members recognize this is pure impossible bullshit.

Now, looking through your eyes, Sanders is perfect, and his message is pure to the masses, you should have absolutely no worries about him getting the nomination and you wont have to sell your soul and throw the lever for Hillary Clinton who is the total opposite of the Socialist party's offering in Bernie Sanders will you?

hollygolightly's picture
hollygolightly
Joined:
Jul. 28, 2015 6:49 am
Quote hollygolightly:I don't have to list Sanders outrageous talking points.

Of course you don't. You don't have to look at the facts, because, as Douglaslee's post about conservative habits of mind and body indicate, the facts don't matter to you.

Case in point:

Quote hollygolightly:

Every one of his speeches is the same rant. "Free everything" , the "government will provide for all" "we don't need no stinkin corporations" , "profit is evil".


He has never said any of those things, Holly. Those are just figments of your anti-democratic imagination, that is, stereotypes of "socialism" based on old concepts and old ideological terrors.

Quote hollygolightly:
Even working union members recognize this is pure impossible bullshit.

Wrong again. How about looking at the facts: Union members prefer Bernie over Hillary; it's labor leadership that insists on going "centrist," strictly on practical considerations: She's more likely to win.


His muscular rhetoric on the issue, among others, explains the grassroots support among rank-and-file union members that has manifested as Labor for Bernie, a political network of workers pushing their unions to endorse Sanders. A public letter released by the organization urging unions to endorse Sanders has attracted the signatures of over 5,000 union members around the country.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/18307/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-unions-afl-cio

Quote hollygolightly:

Now, looking through your eyes, Sanders is perfect, and his message is pure to the masses, you should have absolutely no worries about him getting the nomination and you wont have to sell your soul and throw the lever for Hillary Clinton who is the total opposite of the Socialist party's offering in Bernie Sanders will you?

As I've repeated on this forum many times, Hillary Clinton cannot be characterized as entirely the opposite of Bernie Sanders. That would be any Republican. She is pro-Social Security, pro-Medicare, for example. Those are democratic-socialist programs, which means she's a kind of hybrid. She's also pro-choice and a passionate advocate for women and girls' advancement. I'm not going to have a huge problem voting for her, if Bernie loses the nomination.

But no, again, Bernie's not "perfect," especially not on his stance toward Israel. But I don't expect my candidates to be perfect. I just don't want them off the deep end, like Donald Trump is.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Legend:

Fear factor works very well on Republicans. They are very fearful, thus the number of guns. Remember the mid-term elections, Ebola was going to spread theoughout the country.

Two from Mark Fiore:

KEEP CALM AND PANIC ON

The Blood Never Dries

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Then you should have absolute 100% confidence that Bernie Sanders WILL be nominated, and elected the next POTUS.

You can sleep well and not worry or complain about about how crazy any of the Republican candidates are or correct any of those democrats that call out Hillary Clinton for what she is.

Everything is fine, everything is free.

It is amazing how deaf leftie and righties suddenly become when their candidate is called out.

hollygolightly's picture
hollygolightly
Joined:
Jul. 28, 2015 6:49 am

Holly is auditioning for Fox and Friends.

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 7:46 am

In the first Republican candidate debate, Trump was asked about some horrifically misogynistic quotes of his. Those quotes induced quite a bit of laughter (something similar happened in a 2011 debate when Ron Paul was asked about whether a person without health insurance should just be allowed to die). For right wingers, "political correctness" is synonymous with human decency. The Trump phenomenon is shining a light on the Republican base that the RNC would probably rather keep under wraps.

Some will point out that Trump merely has a plurality of support, not a majority. But not favoring a particular candidate for the nomination is not the same as being opposed to that candidate (how many would make him their 2nd or 3rd choice?). And it's not like all of the other Republican candidates are drastically different. In fact, several of the others are very similar, even if they differ stylistically (and have enough sense to condemn some of Trump's most outlandish remarks). Not only that, but those others hold more extreme positions on certain issues (taxes, gay rights, etc.). Furthermore, the fact that Trump has any support and isn't simply a laughingstock speaks volumes about today's Republican electorate (and US culture in general).

I continue to believe someone other than Trump will be the Republican nominee, but not because most Republicans are anti-Trump. And I'm not convinced that nominee, were he/she to become POTUS, would cause any less harm than Trump would. Anyway, Clinton remains the favorite to become the next POTUS. In the event she does, be prepared for even more Trumpesque misogyny. Condemnation of which will produce accusations of being a member of the "PC Police."

Garrett78's picture
Garrett78
Joined:
Sep. 3, 2010 9:20 am

The GOP base has always had a racist thread interwoven with misogyny and xenophobia strands looming (to continue the metaphor, loom has to be here) stretched over a frame of biblical extremism that is considered law. Biblical law prevents learning or expanding experiences that ordinarily cause most to review conflicting positions and evaluate alternatives. Conservatism by its very nature prevents alternatives or anything new or different. It is DOS in a Windows 10 world, or an abacus vs a trigonometric calculator.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

For sure, douglas. White Christian supremacy, xenophobia, patriarchy and jingoism are essentially core values of right wing ideology. All Trump is doing is making those 'values' a little less covert.

Garrett78's picture
Garrett78
Joined:
Sep. 3, 2010 9:20 am

In another part of the world, those "values" (whether Christian or otherwise) are not so covert:

If you want to know what America would look like after the legalization of Trump’s ideas on immigration and the control of Muslims coming in and going out of the U.S., just look to Israel.

https://afsc.org/resource/restricted-movement-occupied-palestinian-territory

All Palestinians wishing to enter Israel must apply to the Israeli military authorities for a magnetic biometric ID card. Each electronic ID card contains biometric, personal, and security information. While only a fraction of Palestinians who apply for permits actually receive them, each applicant’s information is kept and stored in a database held by the Israeli authorities. Over the years, Israel has accumulated this information into a population registry that contains information about every Palestinian in the occupied Palestinian territory over the age of 16. Biometric data is collected as part of the BASEL system, a biometric access control system, which is installed in major Israeli checkpoints in the occupied West Bank. This system is used to restrict Palestinian movement across checkpoints inside the West Bank and to grant or deny special movement privileges (see for example this UN Report).

We, including American mainstream media, should be shocked by Donald Trump’s would-be edict on banning Muslim immigration to the U.S. It’s the spirit of fascism, one that must be named as such, for that’s what it is. Similarly, however, that spirit of fascism is exactly what the U.S. supports in its support for Israel. They’ve got everything Trump’s asking for— the wall, the control, the “registry.” Apparently, he’s been taking lessons from Israel. Perhaps that’s one reason he’s so unapologetic. It’s real there, why not here?

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

No surprise here: Netanyahu will be hosting Trump in Israel on December 28. Maybe while there Donald will get some handy tips on implementing his bigoted perspective.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I think he wants to go to that praying wall or temple mount or whatever. His planned speech was leaked "Blessed are the Lease makers for they shall in merit profit from the earth" He has a Koran marinating in lamp oil and sealed in paraffin to take to the wall.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Zenzoe, I think the vast majority of people in the US are opposed to Trump's extremist rhetoric or would be if they knew about it (a substantial percentage don't seem to pay any attention to political news--lack of interest or time or awareness). But I theorize that 15-20% of the people in the US are simply batshit crazy with another 10-20% who are only relatively sane. For instance, there are more Louisiana Republicans who blame Obama than Bush for the US government's response to Hurricane Katrina.

Unfortunately, those groups are actively engaged politically (more so than a lot of others), and they are very vocal.

Combine the craziness with a general ignorance (e.g., surveys show Americans think close to 30% of the federal budget goes toward foreign aid when, in reality, less than 1% does) and it's no wonder we produce candidates who are, as Chomsky said, "off the international spectrum of sane behavior." Candidates that make other nations look at the US as if it's a giant insane asylum.

Garrett78's picture
Garrett78
Joined:
Sep. 3, 2010 9:20 am
Quote Garrett78:

Zenzoe, I think the vast majority of people in the US are opposed to Trump's extremist rhetoric or would be if they knew about it (a substantial percentage don't seem to pay any attention to political news--lack of interest or time or awareness). But I theorize that 15-20% of the people in the US are simply batshit crazy with another 10-20% who are only relatively sane.

You took the words out of my mouth. Trump has no secret weapon. His popularity comes from the fact there are preexisting crazies on the right. Which raises the question of the danger of unleashing or encouraging such craziness. The Orwellian Right and the cultural warriors have been working on this for some time and it's all paying off. And once it exists, new demagogues will come to exploit it... therefore perpetuating and intensifying it.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

I think he wants to go to that praying wall or temple mount or whatever. His planned speech was leaked "Blessed are the Lease makers for they shall in merit profit from the earth" He has a Koran marinating in lamp oil and sealed in paraffin to take to the wall.

He had a little note composed and ready to take to the praying wall too: “Tell your people I’m a negotiator, just like them. And by the way, tell them I’ll be on their side, when they decide to nuke every Arab off the planet."

Too bad he changed his mind about his trip to Israel. It must be a disappointment to miss opportunity to wallow in excrement.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote ulTRAX:

Quote Garrett78:

Zenzoe, I think the vast majority of people in the US are opposed to Trump's extremist rhetoric or would be if they knew about it (a substantial percentage don't seem to pay any attention to political news--lack of interest or time or awareness). But I theorize that 15-20% of the people in the US are simply batshit crazy with another 10-20% who are only relatively sane.

You took the words out of my mouth. Trump has no secret weapon...


I beg to differ. Who wudda guessed he had a cloaca on his face? How many of us knew just how powerful an advantage that would be in the presidential race, given that a large segment of the Republican base qualify as reptiles, chickens, and turkeys and could easily identify with a creature similarly equipped with cloacal powers and a tiny brain.

If you don’t believe me, check out this photo taken at one of Trump’s presidential rallies.

Quote ulTRAX:

His popularity comes from the fact there are preexisting crazies on the right.


My point exactly.

Quote ulTRAX:

Which raises the question of the danger of unleashing or encouraging such craziness. The Orwellian Right and the cultural warriors have been working on this for some time and it's all paying off. And once it exists, new demagogues will come to exploit it... therefore perpetuating and intensifying it.

Yeah, quite seriously, too bad democracy is so vulnerable to the powers of demagoguery.

Consider what happened in Guatemala: Comedian Best Known For Blackface Elected President Of Guatemala.

...Morales attempted to capitalize on his “outsider” status in a political scene strewn scandal. He campaigned on the slogan “not corrupt, not a thief” — a reference to the multi-million dollar public sector scandal that forced President Perez Molina and his former vice president Roxana Baldetti to resign amid public outcry last month. The two are currently in jail awaiting trial for charges of corruption, illicit association, and bribery.

The former comedian also has ties to another longstanding issue in Guatemalan history — the massacre of indigenous Mayans in the mid-1980s. President Efrain Rios Montt is still mired in judicial proceedings over his role in the genocide of more than 1,700 indigenous Mayan Guatemalans. Morales is backed by some of the business and military power-brokers who have been implicated in the killings, connections his predecessor shared.

The New York Times reported: “He ran a campaign that was thin on specifics, backed by a political party founded by rightist military officers associated with Guatemala’s long, brutal civil war. As Mr. Morales climbed in the polls, promising change, many in the business elite threw their support behind him, including the powerful confederation known as Cacif and the owner of Guatemala’s broadcast television monopoly.”

...“For me, especially, he is racist,” Andrea Ixchíu a Mayan human rights activist said. “In his TV shows, as a comedian, he always makes fun of indigenous people, our customs or the way we speak…

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Look what a Democratic Congress did in 1952.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

DynoDon
Joined:
Jun. 29, 2012 10:24 am

Keep in mind that what Trump is advocating is not unconstitutional. The Constitution only applies to US citizens. You can disagree with him, but don't call it unconstitutional.

DynoDon
Joined:
Jun. 29, 2012 10:24 am
Quote David Cole Professor of Law:

Are Foreign Nationals Entitled to the Same Constitutional Rights As Citizens?

...Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the same rights as citizens.II But the presumption is wrong in many more respects than it is right. While some distinctions between foreign nationals and citizens are normatively justified and consistent with constitutional and international law, most are not. The significance of the citizen/noncitizen distinction is more often presumed than carefully examined. Upon examination, there is far less to the distinction than commonly thought. In particular, foreign nationals are generally entitled to the equal protection of the laws, to political freedoms of speech and association, and to due process requirements of fair procedure where their lives, liberty, or property are at stake…

...The Constitution does distinguish in some respects between the rights of citizens and noncitizens: the right not to be discriminatorily denied the vote and the right to run for federal elective office are expressly restricted to citizens.12 All other rights, however, are written without such a limitation. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment due process and equal protection guarantees extend to all "persons." The rights attaching to criminal trials, including the right to a public trial, a trial by jury, the assistance of a lawyer, and the right to confront adverse witnesses, all apply to "the accused." And both the First Amendment's protections of political and religious freedoms and the Fourth Amendment's protection of privacy and liberty apply to "the people."

...The fact that the Framers chose to limit to citizens only the rights to vote and to run for federal office is one indication that they did not intend other constitutional rights to be so limited. Accordingly, the Supreme Court has squarely stated that neither the First Amendment nor the Fifth Amendment "acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens."13 For more than a century, the Court has recognized that the Equal Protection Clause is "universal in [its] application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to differences of ... nationality."14 The Court has repeatedly stated that "the Due Process Clause applies to all 'persons' within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent."15 When noncitizens, no matter what their status, are tried for crimes, they are entitled to all of the rights that attach to the criminal process, without any distinction based on their nationality.

...While natural law theories hold less influence today, the human rights movement of the last fifty years reflects a remarkably parallel secular understanding, namely that there are certain basic human rights to which all persons are entitled, simply by virtue of their humanity. Human rights treaties, including those that the United States has signed and ratified, uniformly provide that the rights of due process, political freedoms, and equal protection are owed to all persons, regardless of nationality. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, for example, aptly described by Professor Richard Lillich as the "Magna Carta of contemporary international human rights law," is expressly premised on "the inherent dignity and ... the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family."20 Every international law scholar to consider the question has concluded that the Universal Declaration extends its rights to non-nationals and nationals alike.21 The Universal Declaration explicitly guarantees the rights of due process, political expression and association, and equal protection.22

[Zenzoe emphases]

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote DynoDon:

Look what a Democratic Congress did in 1952.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

There's always a danger in claiming one party did something. After all we know much of the Democratic Party was made up of white racists up until the mid 60s... and Reagan depended much on conservative Dems.

If one looks at the actual votes it looks like this bill was passed more by the GOP

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/82-1952/h165

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/82-1952/s298

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote DynoDon:

Keep in mind that what Trump is advocating is not unconstitutional. The Constitution only applies to US citizens. You can disagree with him, but don't call it unconstitutional.

What's objectionable about Trump's suggestion is it boils down to a religious test. Is there such a test in existing US law?

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Zenzoe:

David Cole Professor of Law...

Are Foreign Nationals Entitled to the Same Constitutional Rights As Citizens?

...Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the same rights as citizens.II But the presumption is wrong in many more respects than it is right.

Leaving Trump's obvious bigotry aside... if this is a matter of law... legal resident aliens do get many rights US citizens have but not all https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/alien

But the question here is about those not yet admitted. I suspect that Congress can pass any law that it wants.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote ulTRAX:

Quote Zenzoe:

David Cole Professor of Law...

Are Foreign Nationals Entitled to the Same Constitutional Rights As Citizens?

...Given this record, it is not surprising that many members of the general public presume that noncitizens do not deserve the same rights as citizens.II But the presumption is wrong in many more respects than it is right.

Leaving Trump's obvious bigotry aside... if this is a matter of law... legal resident aliens do get many rights US citizens have but not all https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/alien

But the question here is about those not yet admitted. I suspect that Congress can pass any law that it wants.

I am not a Constitutional lawyer by any means, but I do believe David Cole’s article includes “those not yet admitted,” because, as the title indicates, “foreign nationals,” would naturally not have been admitted yet. The article does not indicate otherwise. Of course, you are correct, “Congress can pass any law…” and it has. Whether those laws are constitutional or not would be up for examination.

Your earlier comment to DynoDon, “ What's objectionable about Trump's suggestion is it boils down to a religious test,” is the point. In any case, it looks to me like foreign nationals already must satisfy a number of requirements before being granted a Visa. However, I have yet to see anything indicating a religious test of any kind. On the contrary, foreign nationals can even apply for a Visa based on one’s status as a “religious worker.” http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/religious.html#qualifying

Also, “diversity immigrants:” http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/diversity-visa/entry.html

General info: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate.html

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/frequently-asked-questions/what-is-a-u-s-visa.html

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/572/~/entering-the-u.s.---documents-required-for-foreign-nationals-(international

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Imma let you nasty haters finish your human caterpillar act, but fact is, the entire Trump candidacy has been fueled by the desperate dislike of the GOP leaders who have begged for our support, promised us the world, and delivered nothing; not by any particular love for Trump.

stwo's picture
stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote stwo:

Imma let you nasty haters finish your human caterpillar act, but fact is, the entire Trump candidacy has been fueled by the desperate dislike of the GOP leaders who have begged for our support, promised us the world, and delivered nothing; not by any particular love for Trump.

So you're confirming the view that the GOP treats its base like suckers. We knew that. It's about time you learned it.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

HAHAHA. Where the hell do you think the Tea party came from Einstein?

stwo's picture
stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote stwo:

HAHAHA. Where the hell do you think the Tea party came from Einstein?

If you're responding to me... you actually believe that the Tea Crackpots "prove" the GOP isn't largely made up of suckers? The Tea Party represent the most dimwitted of the GOP base and therefore the biggest suckers... in this case for the most rabid puppet-masters in the GOP like the Koch's who hope to protect their own wealth and privilege by sabotaging government for everyone.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote stwo:

Imma let you nasty haters finish your human caterpillar act, but fact is, the entire Trump candidacy has been fueled by the desperate dislike of the GOP leaders who have begged for our support, promised us the world, and delivered nothing; not by any particular love for Trump.

See, stwo, I for one don’t hate Donald Trump; I don’t hate him, because he’s a sociopath who lives by the pitiable view that pursuing power and being rich & infamous is what brings happiness. That’s so sad.

What I hate is his idea that a democracy can be run like a business, even though businesses are not democracies, and running them does not prepare you to govern a democracy.

What I hate is what presidential power in the hands of such a corrupt person would NOT DO for America— and the world, for that matter. It would not address global warming, not create new jobs in infrastructure and green industries, not fix capitalism’s worst crimes, not address the problems of immigration humanely, ethically and Constitutionally, not push a Trump DOJ to prosecute corruption and human rights violations by police departments, cities and states, not appoint sane people to the Supreme Court, and so forth, ad infinitum.

I’m curious as to what “promised us the world” means to you. After that, why exactly do you think Trump will give you "the world" of benefits the GOP leadership denied you?

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

But The Donald does stand on the sloped shoulders of quite a number of xenophobic moments in American history:

Top 6 Times US government Excluded Millions based on Race or Religion —Juan Cole

Quote Juan Cole:

...Trump is proposing a 21st century version of the racist and religiously bigoted Barred Asiatic Zone and its racist and bigoted successor, the 1924 Immigration Act. This is the new Ku Klux Klan, infiltrating the Republican Party this time.

Those who have said they’ve never seen anything like it in American history don’t know their American history very well. The problem is not that what Trump is saying is unprecedented. It is that it echoes the ugliest episodes of American intolerance.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Oh, well, sometimes it takes a bit of spam (#40) to bring this up again— how Donald Trump's still talking out his ass, which is what happens when your mouth is actually a cloaca, something I'm happy to say Larry Wilmore recognized on the Nightly Show last night:

“He’s basically talking out of his ass”: Larry Wilmore has had it with Donald Trump’s pandering on race, religion "Am I the only one seeing how transparent this is?! You've never read the Bible, Donald Trump!"

Watch the whole video, especially Larry's rendition of an evangelical preacher calling for his congregation to "smite down" the campaign of "this false prophet," Donald Trump. Wonderful.

Larry Wilmore! Hot!

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote ulTRAX:

So you're confirming the view that the GOP treats its base like suckers. We knew that. It's about time you learned it.

Funny, coming from someone who supports a political party who is about to nominate Hillary Clinton.

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd
Joined:
Sep. 5, 2014 3:22 am
Quote Kilosqrd:
Quote ulTRAX:

So you're confirming the view that the GOP treats its base like suckers. We knew that. It's about time you learned it.

Funny, coming from someone who supports a political party who is about to nominate Hillary Clinton.

That is a false statement. Bernie Sanders may be nominated and not Hillary Clinton. We will find out which of the two in a few months. Of course, it sounds like you are promoting Hillary Clinton. Perhaps because a republican would have a better chance of winning the presidential race against Hillary Clinton. And only a small chance of winning an election against Bernie Sanders.

Here is a link to a number of polls with Bernie Sanders against Donald Trump.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-sanders

Here is a link to a number of polls with Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton

And it is very clear at least to me that people that favor Bernie Sanders are more motivated to support him than people who favor Hillary Clinton. It is because of her ties with the banks and Wall Street who mostly have made money in the last few years from Quantitative Easing, which has increased U.S. monetary funds for bankers by over 3 Trillion Dollars and not the actual real wealth production of U.S. made goods and services.

Mark the Shark's picture
Mark the Shark
Joined:
Nov. 18, 2011 4:02 pm

The Secret On TrumpCare Is Now Out


The Senate Republican healthcare bill is secret no more.

There's just one problem - it's not really a healthcare bill.

Don't let Mitch McConnell fool you.

Contrary to what you might have heard - Senate Republicans DID NOT unveil a healthcare bill yesterday.

They unveiled a tax cut for the rich DISGUISED as a healthcare bill.

Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system