Is This A Dying Forum???

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How do we know this is a dying forum?

Leaving aside the fact that there doesn't seem to be any mods to catch and nuke spam in real time... it's because the last "LATEST HEADLINE" from Feb 2ed.. now 16 days old.

When I first joined this forum back in 2006 it was with the expectation that Thom visited his own forums and maybe even read some of the posts. After all, why else have a web forum as an adjunct to a talk show if it was not integral to whatever community Thom was trying to create?

Back then Thom posted to the forums. I don't believe he engaged in debates but he probably read some posts. Can anyone remember when Thom last posted to the forums? Now with the blogs, Thom never has to venture into his own forums. Yet Thom is always citing other forums like DU while ignoring his own.

WTF!!

Maybe it's time we forum regulars just gave up thinking this forum was somehow important to Thom and his show... and we went on strike. After all, there are greener pastures... more robust forums, out there. Maybe once we post there Thom will finally pay some attention.

Sorry Thom. You can't create a forum and then neglect it.

Deal with it.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Comments

Yes, I do find it odd that he reads and talks about the discussions on other forums, like DU, but never mentions his own. It does seem like we're a small community of regulars talking amongst ourselves. I get it that he's probably pretty busy, and living on a boat may be limiting his access to technology somewhat. But if I had to guess I'd say they've largely abandoned the forums as a means of interacting with listeners. Thom seems to be focusing on Twitter now.

marriott79's picture
marriott79
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote marriott79:

Yes, I do find it odd that he reads and talks about the discussions on other forums, like DU, but never mentions his own.

This is something I've been complaining about for some time

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/12/why-does-thom-cite-du-posts-an...

After being here for a decade... it may be time to move on.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I was a "regular" for a solid 18 months or so, then I more or less quit posting. I still check in every day, to see if there's anything worth replying to (particularly if it's about my career field - education). But, for the most part, I only see variations of the same themes, from people on both sides. I'll sum them up:

From the Left: "Things aren't fair", "Envy", "The world is coming to an end", and "Blame the Whites/Conservative/Southerners/Men/Christians/Rich for all of your problems."

From the Right: "Things aren't fair, for the opposite reasons", "Fear", "It will never work in the real world", "Get the government off my back", and "Blame the Minorities/Liberals/Urbanites/Godless/Poor for all of your problems."

On the rare occasion that I do reply to someone's post now, they usually respond with a personal attack. I just let it drop there. I'm above that sort of pointless online bickering.

Except now, I'll break my rule and say a blanket "attack" of many of the posts I've seen here. Whenever I see a post from someone about how climate change or income inequality will result in the end of humanity, or at least the downfall of civilization, I just roll my eyes and assume the poster is some aging 60s leftist, bitter that the world didn't turn out the way they thought it would when they were younger. They're staring at the end of their own life, as their bodies fail them, and they can't stand the thought that the world will go on without them. They WANT everything to end when they do. It goes along with their ego. The traditions and institutions that existed before they did were wrong, it was their job to "fix" them, and now that they're dying, and some of those traditions and institutions haven't been "fixed".

Liberals think everyone who doesn't see things their way is ill-informed or ignorant. Conservatives don't give a shit about people who disagree with them, as long as those people leave them alone.

Or, another way to think of it: The loudest voices trying to change "the system" are also the most likely to suck at that system. It's like trying to change the rules of a game because you're losing. It's juvenile, and most people grow out of that sort of thinking.

ChicagoMatt
Joined:
Apr. 28, 2014 11:29 am

I've only been a contributor for the past 3 years. First I contributed quite a bit. I became disillusioned when I would see many blogs covering the same topics, but no one ever seemed to "reply." It seemed most here just wanted to be their own authors. I would check back and see no responses to my blogs, and even other blogs, even though there was nothing else like it. So for a few months I disregarded it, stopped checking and turned to other sites like DailyKos, but now I'm disillisioned with that as well since so many of their blogs are reprints from years prior.

Another reason I'm getting a bit upset with Thom is his call-in show. On the few occasions I've tried to call in and actually get thru to pose my comment or question, I feel I get brushed off and hung up on, so that whatever he responds with is gone by the time I unmute my TV. If I manage to hear his response, I've lost any ability to follow up. And once I have gotten through, I must wait at least a week or two to be allowed to call in again. As a matter of fact, the only time I can communicate on the show is when Danielle is sitting in for Thom. Yet, day after day he takes calls from certain individuals somewhat immediately. I often wonder if these people have a special line into the show? I don't want to name them here, but there's one from California, one from NY and another from Opa-Locka, FL.

I don't want to disparage Thom, but yes, his conduct as to these blogs, as to the comments within them, and as to this site in general is becoming frustrating for me. He quotes a lot from these other sites like Salon, Dem. Underground, even DailyKos, yet nothing from his own site. It's like we're chopped liver.

I think there's a great group here, admittedly some not so great, but instead of reading from other groups, it seems it would behoove him to hear what his own audience is saying since most cannot get through on the phone lines.

Marsh In Florida's picture
Marsh In Florida
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Feb. 11, 2013 9:04 pm
Quote ChicagoMatt:

I was a "regular" for a solid 18 months or so, then I more or less quit posting. I still check in every day, to see if there's anything worth replying to (particularly if it's about my career field - education). But, for the most part, I only see variations of the same themes, from people on both sides. I'll sum them up:

Was that supposed to be a comment on the topic?

Political forums are all about such bickering. I didn't realize anyone would find that shocking. Politics is akin to religion with deep assumptions and narratives that some take as handed down on a slab. But these assumptions and narratives can blind more than they can reveal. They constrict one's view of reality and provide True Believers with certitude which makes them largely impervious to counter assumptions and narratives. Given the obstacles, is amazing any substantive discussion happen but they're there if you look.

But that's hardly the topic of this thread.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

It's a halfway decent forum IMHO. Not all that much traffic or participation... complete ignoral by the Thom Hartman folks and a reluctance to participate in discussions about World Affiars by the majority of the members... but... no forum is perfect.

It's pretty much a dead forum but I am on a few dead forums so I apparently don't mind. lolz!

There are some really brave and truly progressive members on this forum, I've been highly impressed by a lot of the writing here.

zmb's picture
zmb
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Aug. 18, 2013 8:57 pm

I don't have the figures for this site, but on the much quieter http://conversationswithgreatminds.com site there have been over 36,700 pieces of spam removed from view. Please forgive us if we have missed a few here.

The blog section is intended for people to post their own blogs.

SueN's picture
SueN
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Nah. Always something to learn here.

Combad57's picture
Combad57
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May. 29, 2012 11:50 am

Well, Ul.

Ive agreed w.your complaints time and again, but you've blown me off as an fellow advocate . Whatever, UL, I wonder sometimes, if you just want to suffer solo victimhood of the lack of TH contibution.

'Well, YL, if ya wanna go that route that's your choice, your fear of forginging alliances, yeah I get that as PTSD person.

'But shyte man, I've expressed to you time and time again of how I've felt to having been a dismissed by TH and his so-called "rules", having been grossly attacked and hit "flag as offensive: and there is NO recompence...

Really, Ul, much as I read your stuff and agree w/you, philososhically on many poinys, including and MOST ESPECIALLY how TH seems to IGNORE HIS OWN "forum" space....

my battles with several "posters" most recently and currently "R KENYATTA"

you are SILENT

a wet wet washrag

you have not the courage to support OTHERS,

really, your only conscerne is if TH pays attention to YOU.

Sorry, ULTRAX, I've personnaly tried to appeal to you SEVERAL TIMES as an ADVICATE of your criticism, yet you've NEVER aknowledged me. (Omg am I a nasrcissist if another so-inclined ignores ME???) ahhh, a good question... I digress

Well, sorry for your plight, UL, I've tried to support YOU, but you really seem only to interested in supporting yourself. Seriously You've blown of others besides myself.

Isn't that the ANTITHESIS of the COMMUNITY you so claim advocacy for????? OK, and...

peace Ul, I do like you cute avitars. But, sorry, you too seem too....lost......to grasp that others BESIDES YOU are being marginalized.....I for one have tried to forge an alliance w/you that TH ignores his own space...

But truely, you seem only to be annoyed that TH ignores YOU......yeah, you've had the opprtunity to form alliances w/others besides me, but you seem committed to a singular victim role though others feel slighted by TH as well ....well, that's you're interpretation, choice....

sorry for your inability to trust ---yeah, trust can be a bitch--- ok

If wanna be kind:

c'mon Ultrax, get your head out of you ass, stop wallowing in your goddam self-pity about TH not paying enough attention To YOU??????, Oh Bull Fcking-Oney------

you've got talent...grasp the concept of trust.....

you're not the only one who's been a "victim" of the very at best "lax" rules of the TH website or the lack of aknowledgement...sheesh, UL, seriously, you've got talent, but get a grip and get a clue.

WE ALL ARE SUCKERS here

mlk.silenceisnotanoption

VIOLENCE IS NOT AN OPTION

with love, and most sincerely,

mlk.silenceisnotanoption

VIOLENCE IS NOT AN OPTION

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)
Quote ulTRAX:

How do we know this is a dying forum?

Leaving aside the fact that there doesn't seem to be any mods to catch and nuke spam in real time... it's because the last "LATEST HEADLINE" from Feb 2ed.. now 16 days old.

When I first joined this forum back in 2006 it was with the expectation that Thom visited his own forums and maybe even read some of the posts. After all, why else have a web forum as an adjunct to a talk show if it was not integral to whatever community Thom was trying to create?

Back then Thom posted to the forums. I don't believe he engaged in debates but he probably read some posts. Can anyone remember when Thom last posted to the forums? Now with the blogs, Thom never has to venture into his own forums. Yet Thom is always citing other forums like DU while ignoring his own.

WTF!!

Maybe it's time we forum regulars just gave up thinking this forum was somehow important to Thom and his show... and we went on strike. After all, there are greener pastures... more robust forums, out there. Maybe once we post there Thom will finally pay some attention.

Sorry Thom. You can't create a forum and then neglect it.

Deal with it.

As to why this forum may be dying, look in the mirror buddy. You personally drove me away with your tactic of misquoting me (and anyone else who dares to disagree with you) and then telling your detractors what an idiots they are. I found I had better things to do.

I enjoy a good debate, but not when the person I am debating gets personal. I have learned a few things about why the left feels the way they do from others, but not from you. If I could buy you for what you are really worth and sell you for what you think you are worth I could pay off the national debt instantly. There is no one on the face of the earth who is as smart as you think you are.

So you are basically left with a bunch of left wingers here who have no idea why the entire voting population doesn't see things their way. And you are shocked when the Dems get trounced in elections like they were in 2010 and 2014. How did that happen, can't everyone see how evil the Republican right is? That's what happens when group think takes over and everyone stops listening to viewpoints that don't agree with the group. And you are certainly president of that group.

Deal with it. And I'm sure you will post a scathing response to this message, Don't expect me to read that message or respond to it.

Mauiman2's picture
Mauiman2
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Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am
Quote Mauiman2:As to why this forum may be dying, look in the mirror buddy. You personally drove me away with your tactic of misquoting me (and anyone else who dares to disagree with you) and then telling your detractors what an idiots they are. I found I had better things to do.
Yup, I do worry that my trying to keep people honest when they don't want to be has a negative effect on the forum. But there you go again... claiming I frequently misquoted you when, if I looked back, I did not. What you seemed to object to was if I re-framed or corrected some of your right wing spin and you wanted just the spin to stand unchallanged. I also saw it as your way of trying to divert attention from when you were losing on a point.
Quote Mauiman2:

I enjoy a good debate, but not when the person I am debating gets personal.

There simply are no mods here that will try to keep both sides of a debate honest. When someone insists something is true when it's objectively not, then at that point the person IS what's blocking any resolution of the matter. So should that not be stated? If someone repeatedly claims X is true when it's not... are you suggesting the distortion or lie should stand unchallenged? For example, here comes some of your spin now...

Quote Mauiman2:So you are basically left with a bunch of left wingers here who have no idea why the entire voting population doesn't see things their way. And you are shocked when the Dems get trounced in elections like they were in 2010 and 2014. How did that happen, can't everyone see how evil the Republican right is?

So if I correct your spin... that the GOPers in Congress only got 40 million votes in 2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_ele...

and Obama got almost 66 million in 2012, 65% more votes than the GOP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012

you're again going to do what? Whine that my correcting you, or putting the issue you raised in proper perspective thus undermining your claim is an unfair debating tactic?

Quote Mauiman2:That's what happens when group think takes over and everyone stops listening to viewpoints that don't agree with the group.
Sorry, I think you've again shown that you want your partisan spin to go unchallenged even if the objective facts undermine your conclusion. So that's my fault? The solution is simple... don't spin. If the objective facts contradict the spin... then the FACTS rule. That's what an intellectually honest person would do.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote mlk.silenceisnotanoption:Really, Ul, much as I read your stuff and agree w/you, philososhically on many poinys, including and MOST ESPECIALLY how TH seems to IGNORE HIS OWN "forum" space....

my battles with several "posters" most recently and currently "R KENYATTA"

you are SILENT

a wet wet washrag

you have not the courage to support OTHERS,

Sorry I don't read every thread and with rare exception I stay away from the blogs. To be honest I have no problems with Kenyatta. I've never read his posts but all his calls to the show I've heard have been intelligent and thoughtful. I prefer some topics to others as no doubt you do too. If you've ever been in a thread agreeing with me, I'm sure it wasn't because I, personally, was aguing a point, but because you agreed with the point regardless of who made it. So please don't make it personal as you're doing next.

Quote mlk.silenceisnotanoption:Well, sorry for your plight, UL, I've tried to support YOU, but you really seem only to interested in supporting yourself. Seriously You've blown of others besides myself.

Isn't that the ANTITHESIS of the COMMUNITY you so claim advocacy for?????

No, I was merely pointing out that THOM created an on-line community and THOM was ignoring it. Objectively that is true. And sure, I admit that I resent that Thom reads other forums instead of his own... especially when he repeatedly makes some erroneous claim that makes him look bad AFTER he's someone's posted here correcting him. Hell, that means that not even the staff are reading the forum passing the corrections up.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote ulTRAX:

How do we know this is a dying forum?

Leaving aside the fact that there doesn't seem to be any mods to catch and nuke spam in real time... it's because the last "LATEST HEADLINE" from Feb 2ed.. now 16 days old.

When I first joined this forum back in 2006 it was with the expectation that Thom visited his own forums and maybe even read some of the posts. After all, why else have a web forum as an adjunct to a talk show if it was not integral to whatever community Thom was trying to create?

Back then Thom posted to the forums. I don't believe he engaged in debates but he probably read some posts. Can anyone remember when Thom last posted to the forums? Now with the blogs, Thom never has to venture into his own forums. Yet Thom is always citing other forums like DU while ignoring his own.

WTF!!

Maybe it's time we forum regulars just gave up thinking this forum was somehow important to Thom and his show... and we went on strike. After all, there are greener pastures... more robust forums, out there. Maybe once we post there Thom will finally pay some attention.

Sorry Thom. You can't create a forum and then neglect it.

Deal with it.

The underlying theme of the following paragraphs is in the conclusion where I compare this message board to an easily lost vestigial organ of a larger organism, rather than a heart; so those who prefer sound bytes to context need to read no further.

Thom went from a studio in a room of his home to a world-wide stage just before you signed onto this board. People like that twitter and tweet now, but they don't generally seem to have the time to be personal. I was here with a whole bunch of others who actually knew Thom personally. Most of them left when Thom turned the board over to management. I've never been in that position of speaking to a large audience from a broad stage, but I can imagine that maintaining one's "cred" so that one can continue to progress in one's chosen career/profession is a full time job in itself. Being there seems to put the mind on a different plane. Very different from the Salem pane, and the ADHD plane that once was very prevalent on the boards I experienced when I joined in Feb 2004. Thom was right here talking to people. There actually was a sense of community.

And maybe it's also the problem of being personal itself that takes up so much of a person's time in these threads that also turn into petty squabbles. No monitor has the time for that if a board actually does grow to some size. I've watched boards run by figures in the talk industry deteriorate over and over.

I don't post here much any more myself. I don't come to the board hoping for connection with "like minds", whatever I might imagine that to be. I come to write about ideas that seem to be current and worth discussing. My rules for responding are simple now, and derived from the circumstances that have evolved here since Thom went on to different arenas for his chosen profession of talking about politics. I choose to respond to what I consider to be mutually respectful posts. No question, the decision about what that means is subjectively my own. Since I've adopted that rule, I don't have moments of my hair catching on fire and heart pounding as I type. I don't miss the adrenaline rush at all.

Whatever interest there might be in the topics that interest me will come up in the responses that follow. A "reasonable" (and Zenzoe and I just had yet another exchange on the meanings involved with that term) dialog may ensue. Of course if it's the sort of topic that upsets some people, those may post something expressing their outrage and the challenge is to somehow manage to maintain a thread (they are called threads, after all) of conversation through that murky and confusing veil of emotion.

Once upon a time there were many more posters on this board with similar interests in having some sort of mutually respectful dialog, however "respectful" might be defined. It feels much more like a fairy tale memory these days. Dying or changing? I personally see that Thom's entire site expressing his corporation, Mythical Intelligence, Inc., is evolving. This particular aspect of it seems to have become more like our human appendix than our hearts or brains. In fact I feel that way here myself much of the time. People come and go but they are not vital organs missed by a vibrant community. Whatever happened to drc, for instance? He and polycarp were the last moderators I knew about.

.ren's picture
.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Although I have been signed up for years, I can only speak for about the last 4-5 years that I have been regularly reading/posting here. I was not aware of the blog section until a year or so ago, maybe they were added during the last major site upgrade at about the same time. My feeling is the blog section siphons off potential forum posters, and dilutes the experience. Or vice versa. I don't think it needs both a forum and a blog section. And Thom's splitting off his own forum posts to his own blog diluted things further. I don't mosey over to the blog section very often; however, I do notice there are many posters there who don't post to the forum. I think it's too diluted, just MHO. Also there are some long term posters I used to like to read, regardless whether I agreed with them or not - that seem to be gone...from both sides. I am aware many did not like those conservative posters, an example would be kerry, or paleo_con, but they seemed to want honest conversation. As opposed to some conservative troll-type posters, who seem to have stayed. Not saying all the cons left here are trolls, but a larger % of them are, vs. the past, imo.. I have learned a lot here, mainly on the forum. There are some good blog posts, but it seems many of those are nutty, LOT of TITLES with CAPS...mainly from the left. But, it seems the cons mainly stay away from there.

I just think it's too diluted for the small amount of users here. And I don't see what the blog section adds to the equation. And why Thom never reads or refers to it, I'm thinking maybe he wants to "spread the wealth" around and feels he needs to keep DU on listeners minds by giving it free advertising.

al3's picture
al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote ChicagoMatt:

I was a "regular" for a solid 18 months or so, then I more or less quit posting. I still check in every day, to see if there's anything worth replying to (particularly if it's about my career field - education). But, for the most part, I only see variations of the same themes, from people on both sides. I'll sum them up:

From the Left: "Things aren't fair", "Envy", "The world is coming to an end", and "Blame the Whites/Conservative/Southerners/Men/Christians/Rich for all of your problems."

From the Right: "Things aren't fair, for the opposite reasons", "Fear", "It will never work in the real world", "Get the government off my back", and "Blame the Minorities/Liberals/Urbanites/Godless/Poor for all of your problems."

But that's debating politics. Standard fare.

Quote ChicagoMatt:

Except now, I'll break my rule and say a blanket "attack" of many of the posts I've seen here. Whenever I see a post from someone about how climate change or income inequality will result in the end of humanity, or at least the downfall of civilization, I just roll my eyes and assume the poster is some aging 60s leftist, bitter that the world didn't turn out the way they thought it would when they were younger. They're staring at the end of their own life, as their bodies fail them, and they can't stand the thought that the world will go on without them. They WANT everything to end when they do. It goes along with their ego. The traditions and institutions that existed before they did were wrong, it was their job to "fix" them, and now that they're dying, and some of those traditions and institutions haven't been "fixed".

That's an argument that's not exclusively applicable to left wingers. What about those older, religious folks that can't stand the long term decline of the church and religious influences - and the growth of secularity - in modern American culture? You can say the same thing about them. There are millions of those people, and they are supporters of Ted Cruz. And that's only one example

Quote ChicagoMatt:Liberals think everyone who doesn't see things their way is ill-informed or ignorant. Conservatives don't give a shit about people who disagree with them, as long as those people leave them alone.
Again, this argument can be made against conservatives as well. Don't religious conservatives believe non believers are "ill informed?"

Quote ChicagoMatt:Or, another way to think of it: The loudest voices trying to change "the system" are also the most likely to suck at that system. It's like trying to change the rules of a game because you're losing. It's juvenile, and most people grow out of that sort of thinking.
Depends on what you mean by "loudest voices." I suspect you mean someone like Bernie Sanders, and maybe not someone like Ted Cruz?

al3's picture
al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Salient points about the Board's blog addition and the dilution affect.

I thought, even at the time, that Thom and Nigel might have in mind an evolution to a different type of message board, more like some successful ones I've been on in the past that use a blog/essay format with following commentary, much like these "new" blogs of theirs -- new in 2010 or so. From your observation, it didn't take; much more, in this case, like grafting on a new appendix rather than replacing a vital organ. Neither became a vital addition to his business as talk show host.

Here are two examples of sites I know that work off the blog format, they are admittedly European and American cousins in their birth geneology, but I see both have evolved in different ways since I first joined them about ten years ago (note that when I was participating on the following boards both were closely moderated, much more closely than Thom's even then, and those who tended towards making things overly personal and invective in commentary were duly warned, and if they did not heed the warnings they "disappeared".):

European Tribune

Booman Tribune

.ren's picture
.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Some posters have found mates (in Australian sense) that have engaged in exposition of ideas from a different POV, or one not thought of lately.

Writers, artists, intellectuals, and those with a public following adapted when the state became restricting. I'm referring to Franco, who most resembles Cheney's administration -he had a parallel admin seeking the powers he felt the Church hearings post Watergate usurped his desired powers of The Unitary Executive [w/George W as a hapless Forrest Gump] with enormous powers and Cheney-(Geppeto) pulling the strings.[I think W used to whistle "I got no strings to pull me down".

Takeover-Imperial-Presidency-Subversion-Democracy charlie+savage+

The precurser to this was .miami oh.edu/kelleycs/paper.pdf [I used to go to Oxford, Univ of Miami (Miami indians aka mound builders got Miami Township, ad Miamisburg named after them

Rethinking Presidential Power—The Unitary Executive and the George W. Bush Presidency. Paper prepared for the 63rd Annual Meeting of the Midwest Political Science Association April 7-10, 2005 Chicago, IL Christopher S. Kelley, Ph.D. Department of Political Science Miami University Oxford, OH kelleycs@muohio.ed

Maybe if one made a call in to Thom's having drafted a theory/concern with footnotes and secondary notice (congress calls it cosponsorship, something Cruz will never get.)

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douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

One other thing, the thread "Comments on the Show" is not just a thumb up or down restriction. If a guest said something wrong and Thom didn't counter enough, offering further support from other sources in either writing on these forums or calling to the show, especially if it's a repeat guest. Thom is most polite, even as he knocks the wind out of the sails of one mistaken,

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

The people here sometimes base their communications more on personality than on content and ideas, and the arguments center around cliques, with a restrictive "good ole' boy" orientation. There is also sometimes an aura of elitism, which seems incompatible with the whole notion of fairness or equality. Some writers here write in a way that is just unclear.

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Robindell
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

btw, I have engaged in discussions of peppers and pepper sauce from how to serve, garnish, store, etc. always shake. Tobasco is best known but not best sown. Seeds sown, or sauces sown are a time shared product, and sown rhymes with known. (or bone, cone, condone, phone, hone(sharpen), koan, loan, moan (aka the language of conservatives or republicans if they can ever figure out what they are), pone as in corn pone, rhone as in cotes-du-rhone is excellent french red wine (GOP might whine about the wine unless they get freedon fries), tone -audible and visual, Sorry, I ran dry, but there is a rhyme software program for more. I guess I'm old school as I see a hanging mist being thrust across the moors. htYou can hear the mix, of moors, mist, me pipes and more

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

An ocean fails within the career! The primary identifier steers his rejected crown. Throughout the suspicion burns the father. An undone struggle overlaps. Before a productive plague attacks another screwed socialist. When can our useless calendar pose a business microprocessor?

Dexterous's picture
Dexterous
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Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am
Quote Dexterous:

An ocean fails within the career! The primary identifier steers his rejected crown. Throughout the suspicion burns the father. An undone struggle overlaps. Before a productive plague attacks another screwed socialist. When can our useless calendar pose a business microprocessor?

Is that the coded message to the French Underground on the eve of D-Day?

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote al3:

Although I have been signed up for years, I can only speak for about the last 4-5 years that I have been regularly reading/posting here. I was not aware of the blog section until a year or so ago, maybe they were added during the last major site upgrade at about the same time. My feeling is the blog section siphons off potential forum posters, and dilutes the experience. Or vice versa. I don't think it needs both a forum and a blog section. And Thom's splitting off his own forum posts to his own blog diluted things further.

This was a point I made last July http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2015/07/are-blogs-here-ruining-forums

I used to be into Usenet... the pre-WWW forum system. By design it had certain efficiencies in creating a logical forum hierarchy and thus in concentrating people interested in certain topics. The WWW with every site having its own forum destroyed that. And I see the blog section here doing the same to the forums. The blog section drains people away from the forums. There's really no good point... discussion wise... to have competing forums and blog threads.

But my OP was that if Thom gave up paying any attention to his own forums, and with staff not updating "The Latest Headline" section, it wasn't a good sign.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote al3:

Although I have been signed up for years, I can only speak for about the last 4-5 years that I have been regularly reading/posting here. I was not aware of the blog section until a year or so ago, maybe they were added during the last major site upgrade at about the same time. My feeling is the blog section siphons off potential forum posters, and dilutes the experience. Or vice versa. I don't think it needs both a forum and a blog section. And Thom's splitting off his own forum posts to his own blog diluted things further. I don't mosey over to the blog section very often; however, I do notice there are many posters there who don't post to the forum. I think it's too diluted, just MHO. Also there are some long term posters I used to like to read, regardless whether I agreed with them or not - that seem to be gone...from both sides. I am aware many did not like those conservative posters, an example would be kerry, or paleo_con, but they seemed to want honest conversation. As opposed to some conservative troll-type posters, who seem to have stayed. Not saying all the cons left here are trolls, but a larger % of them are, vs. the past, imo.. I have learned a lot here, mainly on the forum. There are some good blog posts, but it seems many of those are nutty, LOT of TITLES with CAPS...mainly from the left. But, it seems the cons mainly stay away from there.

I just think it's too diluted for the small amount of users here. And I don't see what the blog section adds to the equation. And why Thom never reads or refers to it, I'm thinking maybe he wants to "spread the wealth" around and feels he needs to keep DU on listeners minds by giving it free advertising.

Obviously I am unaware of the blog section even today. But I have said this to you before and I will say it again, I enjoy going back and forth with you, even though you usually disagree with me. You are the best example of a "lefty" who knows how to debate, put you ideas and arguements out there without getting personal. You get a score from me of 100 on those points. Ultrax are you listening, you get a score of zero for this skill.

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Mauiman2
Joined:
Jul. 27, 2012 6:24 am
Quote ulTRAX:
Quote Dexterous:

An ocean fails within the career! The primary identifier steers his rejected crown. Throughout the suspicion burns the father. An undone struggle overlaps. Before a productive plague attacks another screwed socialist. When can our useless calendar pose a business microprocessor?

Is that the coded message to the French Underground on the eve of D-Day?

pay attention. It was a direct reply to Douglaslee's post above it.

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stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm
Quote stwo:
Quote ulTRAX:
Quote Dexterous:

An ocean fails within the career! The primary identifier steers his rejected crown. Throughout the suspicion burns the father. An undone struggle overlaps. Before a productive plague attacks another screwed socialist. When can our useless calendar pose a business microprocessor?

Is that the coded message to the French Underground on the eve of D-Day?

pay attention. It was a direct reply to Douglaslee's post above it.

Sorry, I'm used to Dexie writing incoherent and content free posts. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt by thinking he expanded into the obscure. I didn't want to suggest being high.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

"This is a thousand monkeys working at a thousand typewriters. Soon, they'll have written the greatest novel known to mankind. Let's see... 'It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times'?! You stupid monkey!"— Mr. Burns, The Simpsons

A standard thought experiment from probability theory states that a million monkeys hammering a million typewriters (or a hundred, or a thousand) will eventually write the entire works of Shakespeare (or Dickens, or all the books in the British Library). This is a vivid enough mental image that it gets referenced alot in fiction.

One common joke is to assume that the number of monkeys required to write something is proportional to its artistic merit, so Shakespeare might take a million monkeys a million years, but three monkeys could write Atlanta Nights in half a day. This isn't actually true (in fact, all that matters is the length of the text that the monkeys are replicating), but it is funny. When we start throwing infinity in it (which is implied by the "eventually" in the first sentence of this page), then either one monkey is enough given an infinite time, or among infinite monkeys typing (for example) 400 pages each, one will type a particular 400-page text on the first try.

While they are part of the most common descriptions of this idea, versions involving "thousands" or "millions" of monkeys may confuse someone into thinking there is some kind of practical possibility of producing Shakespeare with monkeys, if we could only wait for a few million years. Some paraphrases of the problem even forget to mention the "eventually" or "infinite" part and say that you just need "a million monkeys for a million years". In fact, even if you replaced every atom in the universe with a monkey and a typewriter, and they all typed a thousand characters per second, the odds of their producing Hamlet (as well as the odds of any other specific text of the same length) within an dsafljcxzillion ancjlaeladhaclaketlillion years are still incomprehensibly low. However, such huge quantities of monkeys and time are no match for infinity, which is where the magic happens.

The point is that the monkeys are flailing at the keys without understanding the point of the machine. Given enough time or enough monkeys, or both, one of them will accidentally hit the keys in the order "[shift]T-o[space]b-e[comma][space]o-r[space]n-o-t[space]t-o[space]b-e..." There is also some non-infinite yet unimaginably large number of years within which typing Hamlet has a probability of 99%, but the chance still doesn't reach 100% until infinity.

A lot of writers will absolutely jump on this as an opportunity for Word Salad Humour. See also Who Writes This Crap?!.

Robert Wilensky complemented this with the statement that "Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." For further reading, see Other Wiki.

Was his post a masterpiece? Or was he messing with his master's piece and mistook his Nobel Peace prize for a lariat when it was a laureate, but not a Larry it which comes in a 3 pack with a Curly it and a Mo it.

I bet an infinite number of chimps can write better than monkeys, but don't call them a panzee like Trump did.

Examples:

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

The overwhelmed knowledge fumes near the key. The vinyl paints the night after the cryptic graffito. Past a recovery results the in crossroad. The museum suspects a pill.

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Dexterous
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Apr. 9, 2013 8:35 am

Hey Ren.

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MilesD3
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Oct. 26, 2014 1:11 am

Hey Miles. :)

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Some people obviously have a lot more time to waste than I do. Reading this post makes me realize that I should make better use of my time.

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 6:46 am
Quote ulTRAX:
Quote Dexterous:An ocean fails within the career! The primary identifier steers his rejected crown. Throughout the suspicion burns the father. An undone struggle overlaps. Before a productive plague attacks another screwed socialist. When can our useless calendar pose a business microprocessor?
Is that the coded message to the French Underground on the eve of D-Day?
No, but he's outed himself as one of Sarah Palin's speechwriters.

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al3
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Sorry Ultrax, if you took the meaning of "community" as an encompassing of the whole TH enterprise, in it's entirety, you'd try to read as many forum/blog posts as possible as well as chat.

CLEARLY you are yet another naieve contributor if you've not read any of Kenyatta's blog posts's and only rely on Kenyatta's "on air" personality. Tsk Tsk. You think Kenyatta is intelligent and thoughtful? Well, that just goes to show how clueless you are and how little you really care about supporting a "community". You've NEVER POSTED on a KENYATTA BLOG. (???)......

YOU are part of the PROBLEM

YOU whine about Thom Hartmann ignoring his internet "community" yet you admitedly don't read much yourself, besides yourself?

By supporting Kenyatta as "intelligent and thoughtfull"---have you READ Kenyatta's blogs/threads ? Really you support THAT???

sigh

man, love me a battle of the narcissists for attention. Golly sakes Ultraxx, those of us who DO bother to read others/post in both forums and blogs are WELL AWARE.

sorry, UL, if this, posting, is your drug, have at it for yourself, but don't try to convince anyone else that you give a crap about "community". You coulda been a contender, but you're just a self-centered pretender like your intelligent thoughtfull Kenyatta. Yeps, you might wanna read some threads of whom you"ve just supported, Kenyatta, in "community" . Yeps, you and kinyatta, all about the kumbaya, "community". really. Nice.

sheesh, Ultraxx gives a poop about "community"? Pot, kettle.

(and I'm sure that the KinyattayattaRasputinCo could try to make that a "racist" comment------oh ha ha ha ha-----ppphhhhtttt........bogus booger butts) : )

mlk.silenceisnotanoption

VIOLENCE IS NOT AN OPTION

mlk.silenceisnotanoption (not verified)
Quote mlk.silenceisnotanoption:

Sorry Ultrax, if you took the meaning of "community" as an encompassing of the whole TH enterprise, in it's entirety, you'd try to read as many forum/blog posts as possible as well as chat.

If that's what YOU want to do, fine. Don't you dare criticize those that don't share your ideas. You seem to expect me to form alliances to bash right wingers. Sorry. That treats forums like a gang fight and since I'm in my 60's I'm a little too old for that. While I do get bogged down in stupid fights with some here, the real reason I post it to test my own ideas on the topics that interest me and they tend to fall into a narrow range, reforming our system to make it democratic, fiscal issues, economics, and the Constitution. Half my disagreements are with liberal Dems. And read my lips: I could not care less about your fight with Kenyatta.

As far as any "community" I've been clear that it's Thom's job to create that and, sadly, he's be AWOL from his own "community" except for some drive-by postings.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Hey. I'm still here.

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MilesD3
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Oct. 26, 2014 1:11 am

nowdays... member blogs and chat room ...see web site... are the big things

harry ashburn
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Just curious as I waste too much time on this page (and that is minimal). Is their a good Forum to be on?

Legend
Joined:
Nov. 27, 2012 6:46 am
Quote Legend:

Just curious as I waste too much time on this page (and that is minimal). Is their a good Forum to be on?

Depends on your objectives, whether you want to preach to the converted, try to change the minds of others, or just plain argue with the other side. I think we'd all like to change the minds of others, but most of the people we need to reach probably aren't reading any forums or many websites.

For example, if you listened to Thom's call in poll the other week, Bernie received almost all the votes. However, the primary results following that poll told a very different story -- that most voters were probably getting their information from traditional sources: TV, newspapers, mainstream websites (Washington Post, MSNBC, etc.) or no where at all.

That said, I hear the comments sections at Democratic Underground, Salon, and Huff Post are pretty active. Thom is also big on Twitter these days. You would think he'd read his own message boards, member blogs, and comments sections, if for no other reason than to get a feel for how his listeners are responding to his programs (i.e. market research), but he apparently does not. A few years ago he said that he read the member blogs on here and the comments to his blog/post of the day, but these days he talks mostly about DU, The New York Times App, Twitter, etc. If you really want to reach people these days, it seems Twitter is the place to go.

As for me, I plan to cut down on my posts. It's a fairly time consuming process considering how few people are actually reading them. I imagine this board used to be quite busy years ago. I've been listening to Thom's program for over ten years but only recently started posting. But with the hang ups on callers, people being called "stupid" for not wanting to vote for Hillary, and the scrubbing of posts here, I've had to rethink and question a lot of things I took for granted, like the integrity of sources I get my information from. There are a lot of well meaning people putting out spin to suit their ends and objectives. As an adult I want to hear it straight, not a sugar coated message to protect me from my own choices. When I read or listen to Chris Hedges or Noam Chomsky I feel I'm getting an honest discussion.

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marriott79
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Isn't this post at the new hartmannreport.com proof the "management" has given up on its own forum? It's a link to a post at ANOTHER forum...

http://hartmannreport.com/linktrack/388/8e3969fc708058f6be08ccb23c2e1aa5...

What's rather disgusting here is Thom always claims to want to have civil discussions with right wingers... yet the DU is a highly censored forum that not only nukes posts by right wingers... but also those of progressives.

ulTRAX's picture
ulTRAX
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Impeachment: The Difference Between Nixon & Trump

Thom plus logo There is a very simple reason why some Republicans participated in the impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon, but none have so far broken ranks against Trump. That reason is the US Supreme Court.
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