Stand or Fall

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Stand or Fall

There are people out there that do give a sh*t and are dying trying to hold this world of ours together. While far too many are not engaged and don’t want to get involved. Those people need to stand up and take a look at the world imploding around them. We need to organize and get off our asses or kiss them goodbye. But know this, you delusional predators that pray on the working class to feed your greed, you'er not taking our families and future generations with you, not without a fight from all of us that know we must stand together to save this planet. As for those who need to burn off all that anger you have, point it at the people that put us here, the Fossil Fuels Industry destroying the ecosystem of our planet and us along with it. The Rich and the Corporate Powers that rule the Corrupt Politicians taking their Bribes from all sides (over the will of the people) need to be drag out of the capital and jailed. And the worst part is that our congress doesn’t even try to hide it anymore. Corruption runs so deep into our whole governmental system, that when coupled with a lack of any morality and patriotism to their country, or to the people they represent, with the unbridled greed and narcissism of our politicians, is why our democracy is failing us.

"There must be prosecution and prison in their futures for their crimes, for this to stop"

They’ve (the Rich /Corrupting forces) have known for decades that the people will not rise up to stop them or fight to take our country back, because far to many just except what their being fed to them by the corporate media, and with the never ending greed of politicians, they just keep taking more & more of the income from the Middle Class without even a whimper from most all the working-class and poor. Their redistribution of our money to the already wealthy 1% is insane and so is the fact that we put up with it. And because there is no pushback, the Rich and Powerful can and do just make up any stories/lies they want to support and cover up their crimes against the people by using their political puppets. All this with no challenges to what’s the truth is or the facts behind their bullsh*t from most all the corporate media or the people their robbing, “Us” ! The fact that the Constitution does call upon the press to inform the people of the nation to the truth. There should be a treasonous stigma attached to today’s corporate media.

Then there’s the Wars and Weapons industry destroying whole countries and making billions off wars doing so, with No End to War in sight, nor do they want one. (Our Service Men and Women must know we have their backs and that being sent to war is the last resort, not the first.) If we don’t stop the corruption now, they will never be stopped, so grab your b*lls and for you women grab whatever makes for you feel tough and Let’s Do This! (STOP THIS NOW!). From what I have seen of the Baby Boomers their b*lls have shrunken quite a bit since their youths. So you younger generations will need to pick up the slack and step up front in this mess left to you by those world-famous Baby Boomers. It truly was a an age of possibilities, but most lost focus and direction for many reasons "Life", was the biggest excuse, but by disengaging from the process of government we open up the floodgates of corruption without accountability, and without accountability there is no government, just oligarchy, that's how we got here. This is a government run by the people and when the people willingly turn the reins over to the wealthy and corporate criminals to look out for their best interest "it's insane"just that simple totally insane. Unfortunately that has led to the weakening of the American spine that kept all that greed in check in the past. Yet there is still quite a few of us BB around that do have heart and a sense of patriotism and responsibility to clean this nightmare up before we die, and not leave it to the Millennials and future generations alone to save a planet that’s on its way down to the game of survival. How pathetic we have become lay this crap on their doorstep. A lot of Blame should be placed pacifically and especially on the journalists of the media ( a.k.a. corporate media ) for keeping the people in the dark to what the Truth is. So to you journalists and politicians who have sold out their country and the world or basically humankind for their greed of a buck $, step aside for those true journalists and patriots that still have a passion for the Truth and the Planet we all live on.

History will not forget any of us for our part in this fight!

“ join the Progressive Green Movement and Stand as One “

Because as one, is the only way we win this and that goes for the world as well. There is only one world and if “we the people” of the world do not stand together as one, we will fall as one!

This starts with getting the Federal, State & Local Governments back in the hands of

“We the People”

VOTE!

BillGM ( Bernie 2016 supporter )

We all need to understand the truth and what’s happening “now !”

News on the internet or through the air and uncorrupted.

PBS News , NPR News, RT News America , RT The Big Picture , Democracy Now,

Secular Talk Radio, TYT, The Guardian, EcoWatch and more alternative independent news

Climate Change sites

UCSUSA.org , EPA.gov, TheGuardian.com , EcoWatch.com , AVAAZ.org , climateandsecurity.org , HuffingtonPost.com , earth.stanford.edu , earthworksaction.org , GreenWorldRising.org

“Pope’s call to action“

Movement sites,

350.org , 100%.org , thesolutionsproject.org , greenpeace.org , nextgenclimate.org , EarthGuardians.org , and many more

So I asked this of all of us who want to see a bright and stable future for the children, grandchildren and future generations of the world. (get involved secure their future)

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Comments

Quote BillGM:... your not taking our families and future generations with you, ...

you're

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stwo
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Quote BillGM:

But know this, you delusional predators that pray on the working class to feed your greed, your not taking our families and future generations with you, not without a fight from all of us that know we must stand together to save this planet.

Most of the working class has taken part in the predatorship that has led to an emerging 6th mass extinction.

I just wonder if all these folks getting up and becoming passionate realize just how much they have to change in order to deal with the deleterious effects of industrial civilization on this planet.

And patriotism...

When I boarded the plane upon being shipped back from the Vietnam theater to be processed back into civilian-hood, I was already questioning the very notion of patriotism. In fact, I was sure I was no longer a patriot.

Since then, after long and tortuous questioning on the matter, I've concluded that patriotism is a kind of mass movement enforced idealism. Because it can be separated from our individual intelligence in action, it's possible that this 'feel good' sense of belonging can then be used by the very powers that instigated a draft and called it service to one's country. Even to this day I am thanked for my service. But servitude is another word that relates to service, and servitude under the threat of lawful imprisonment for refusal is not actual, full voluntary service. It's a kind of either or blackmailed choice, where one chooses to become part of the military machinery or the prison machinery.

The way I now see it, this somewhat blackmailed form of 'voluntary' servitude coupled with blanket patriotism can result in blindness.

It's fairly complicated to work out, and would take some dialog to reveal how I see it, but I believe that can be extended to any form of mass movement with "good for all" rules that override my individual sense of doubt, with all the probing and mass movement threatening questions that doubt raises, many of which will create contradictions to the mass movement's shouted-out beliefs about what's right and wrong with various extracted aspects from a whole systemically connected world, like "communism is what's wrong with the Bernie," or "capitalism's what's wrong with Trump or Cruz."

There are so many contradictions. When people put good, middle class jobs as the number one issue, because for a few years following the FDR programs the factory workers in places like Detroit were making a good enough wage to have a nice home in the suburbs and such, thus ranking as "middle class" in a mass measurement system, are they really looking at the system that made those jobs and those wages possible? Industrialization as a systemic process did not just make the one percent. It made the appearance of a better life possible for a vast mass of people willing to work on assembly lines at jobs that are better done by machines than imaginative, empathic, caring social beings, as our ancestors may very well once have been before we became civilized.

So then one group wants good wages and good jobs without bothering to think about the biosphere of this planet, and another group wants to "fix" the environment, but they also want good wages and good jobs; up comes a real conundrum. It can't be glossed over with patriotic slogans. Because meanwhile the cost of those good jobs are the very costs the entire biosphere of this planet has been absorbing while we, the common ordinary people, along with the rich and powerful, thrive (for a relatively short time until those "externalized" (don't you just love the economists and their language? I mean, what's external about our planet?) costs finally start killing of the intricate and delicate web of life on this planet we all depend upon for our individual lives).

So a question I must ask to the fervent, mass movement organizers, is this: Just how far are you willing to go to save the planet? What are you really willing to give up?

And those are questions I've been asking myself and others since I began to study environmentalism after coming back to what had become a strange land after serving "my" country in Vietnam. Those questions have guided my own life and my life choices, not the easily manipulated slogans of mass movements.

Quote BillGM:

Unfortunately that also led to the weakening of the American spine that keeps all this greed in check. Yet there is still quite a few of us around that do have heart and a sense of patriotism and responsibility to clean this Nightmare up before we die and not leave it to the Millennials and future generations alone to save a planet that’s on its way down to the game of survival. How pathetic we have become to get to this point. A lot of Blame should be placed pacifically and especially on the journalists of the media ( a.k.a. corporate media ) for keeping the people in the dark to what the Truth is. So to you journalists and politicians who have sold out their country and the world or basically humankind for their greed of a buck $, step aside for those true journalists and patriots that still have a passion for the Truth and the Planet we all live on.

I'm not big on placing blame (but perhaps pacifically based blame is at least better than aggressively placed blame, hard to tell; the internal state of mind of blame makers is what really matters I think). I'm big on asking questions and finding out the truth when ever possible. People themselves choose to be blind. No one can keep us in the dark once we open our minds to all the possibilities of doubt.

If we are going to go from corporatism to democracy, it's going to take some intelligent effort on each of our parts.

The most powerful force each of us can possess is our own government. Unlike many of the über-wealthy, the vast majority of us have no other large, organized mechanism that we can call our own. Most other organized mechanisms -- for instance, privately held corporations --reduce us to the status of a subject. And an "objectified" subject at that. Thus, as objectification takes its course, we tend to lose our very humanity to the rules and regulations of these privately-held totalitarian organizations. The difficulty is seeing where and how we can do that to ourselves with our own government, and then recognizing where that difference makes its mark on our minds. Beware the mindless patriot who follows with the masses without doubt.

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.ren
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You're absolutely right this is the very game is being played on us now by the oligarchy that plays us like small children, incapable of standing up to them. I have said before have been following this corruption since 1992. That year was my first taste of actually being part of a political candidates election. Was also when I started investing in renewable energy stocks. Because I could see a need for them 24 years ago and what we're heading into without them. So I personally have been following these issues very closely for the last 25 years. And it's been a slow-motion implosion of our Democracy (a.k.a. Will of the people.) I have railed against this corrupt economical and political process being played out at every level of our government and against the people. Psychology being used to convince people to act and vote against their own self-interest has to be unprecedented at this scale in America. The oligarchy that has taken control of our political system and financial institutions know no limits to their greed. There is but one thing that even has a chance of saving this world/planet. And that is the facts and the truth of what is really going on and by that I mean who's pulling the strings. One of the first lessons the public needs to learn is corporate media is owned by these fascists authoritarian fu*kheads. So that's a start to what's wrong and much more.

What we can do, and this is really a major piece of what's needed. The Facts and the Truth. because I can tell you for a fact that most the population still has no idea to what level the political system is corrupt and how close we are to total devastation from climate change. Based on my talks over the last 25 years with many people friends, coworkers, people in the public,they have no idea of the severity or even their part in this whole process against themselves, their families and the planet. There is a reason that these basically intelligent and good people are so disengaged. And that's the corporate media only supplying what information is needed to form public opinion to their needs. Never forget these are the ultrarich they employ anybody they need to to control their message. They have the best psychologists to run their propaganda and to control the will of the people. There's been but one hope that I haven't seen for decades and that's the movements going on right now. The progressive movement and the climate change movement both can be followed on independent news websites, out of the control fossil fuel industry that is literally destroying our planet at an accelerated rate. at the same time controlling the media with their climate change denial propaganda. Once thought to be 100 years plus could be just decades. So if all of this is not enough for people of this country and of the world to take a chance of joining a movement in trying to actually change the course of our future for the children and grandchildren and future generations, we truly do not have a chance !

Patriotism is at the heart of this country and is why we were once the envy of the world. But now that our government has been abused and corrupted by many of our own elected politicians. It has deadened the very spirit that once made us truly great in the world's eyes.

So if ever there was a time, a need, a reason, a necessity,to make a rational, realistic course for this planet and the people on it, it's now, not tomorrow.

You're right blinded mindless patriotism is what put us here and there is only one thing that will change that. The Truth, Scientific facts, and Reality is our only way out!

knowledge / education/ the truth for a change: Internet sources- RT news,PBS, NPR, TYT, ecowatch.com, theGuardian.com and NOT the corporate media !

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BillGM
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Quote BillGM:

...You're absolutely right ......

......You're right blinded mindless patriotism ......

Your

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stwo
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Quote stwo:
Quote BillGM:

...You're absolutely right ......

......You're right blinded mindless patriotism ......

Your

Here's how I interpreted those two sentences:

You are absolutely right, this is the very game [that] is being played on us now by the oligarchy that plays us like small children....

..... You are right. Blinded mindless patriotism is what put us here and there is only one thing that will change that.

----

Most of the posts on this board that risk going. beyond holophrastic sentences could benefit from drawer time. I see grammatical errors and typos in my posts all the time when I come back and reread them, and I actually made a living as a writer for a number of years. One big thing I learned: in taking the risk to write for a living I was going to expose myself as an imperfect being. Yeah. Scary stuff.

But then... some of us are here to try to communicate with people we'll never meet in circumstances where we can sit and talk and work things out face to face. Given that, I'm willing to try to figure out what someone is trying to communicate to me, or even if they are trying. Naturally, what I figure out will be a subjective call on my part. And the epigrams of grammar arising from keyboards or iPads will forever be challenging puzzles to work out.

Did you have any thoughts you wanted to share on Bill's topic?

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

Thank you for a considered response, Bill. It appears to me you have been working out a narrative for some time, and you've put much thought into it.

I'm sure you have narrative-influencing thoughts and experiences that precede your sort of base point of 1992, I certainly do; but It's interesting in reading your story that I too have some personal actions that involve my analysis of the corporate influence on the DLC beginning about then with Bill Clinton. For me, it came through my involvement with trying to do something about the potentially damaging effects that the Clinton-championed international trade agreements would have on the various individual nation's abilities to regulate transnational corporations and, thereby, protect the environment as they might democratically see fit. I did a huge amount of voluntary research and writing for some of the folks from the Huxley College in Bellingham, WA. Unlike the heavily monied corporate world, most democratic action involves voluntary contribution to the process. Part of the mass programming you are referring to I've concluded involves systematically making that psychologically undesirable to individuals, many of whom I have personally witnessed taking personally the notion of the primacy of individual selfishness, exemplified by such writers as Ayn Rand.

For my part, I wanted to help those who would be going to meetings in Washington DC prepare for presenting their case against what we saw as deleterious environmental aspects of these nation transcending international agreements. Preparing that case involved a lot of research. Back then these international relations negotiations were also supposed to include expertise from academia. Of course we can now surmise that we were politely listened to and then obviously ignored. That's the short summary of it. The long summary somewhat supports your conclusions about the oligarchic ruling class that's dismissed most of us as unessential nuisances to be manipulated as they go about their management of the global economy and business as usual. For me this all stems to a call for business emancipation put forth by a friend of one of the top executives of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. The call was a kind of blue print for what followed what some of us call the Powell Manifesto. Read it; it's enlightening.

Interestingly, Powell, with his opennly expressed pro business ideas, was appointed to the Supreme Court during Nixon's Presidency and he contributed to many pro-corporate rulings that paved the way for much more extreme rulings later, like Citizen's United. By today's standards he might be considered a moderate compared to the four left on the Supreme Court after Scalia's sudden death. But in his day he was very much a Reagonomics conservative. These things, if not interrupted, tend to follow an incremental path that's not that different from bringing a frog slowly to a boil. We frogs are now boiling.

It was Bill Clinton's campaign that came up with the slogan "The economy, stupid." I don't figure many in the Democratic Party who supported him reckoned on the deeper oligarchic neoliberal meanings behind that slogan. I, by a kind of stroke of circumstantial luck, happened to be on the inside where I could observe these political/corporate shenanigans evolving back in the eighties, and I watched as the basis for catastrophes like the savings and loan crisis were put calmly in place.

NAFTA and GATT agreements, extensions of these corporate freedoms from government regulations, were already in the works as part of a big picture chess board-like program designed to deregulate and expand our economic interests in a much more unfettered way. The very idea of entrepreneurial inventiveness and freedom that coincides with the rise of the dot com industry owes its moral and ethical claims, such that they are, to those deregulatory tendencies that the Democrats embraced during the Nineties. The very idea of progress and solving society's problems is also wedded to such notions. Clinton simply embraced them and helped push them through.

In the process he helped usher in the final stages of liberal elitism that's become what we see now as the dominance of the experts who populated the Obama administration, with many of them moving through revolving doors from business to politics, while doing their work of creating indecipherably complex business dealings that effect billions of people around the world on Wall Street. Hence the Occupy Wall Street movement arose. A recent tome that talks about this process is Thomas Frank's Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?

I have plenty of ideas about what's going on; but I also seriously doubt that I, or any single individual, can know any of the absolute and complete answers to what I see as an impending collapse of what I tend to call 'industrial civilization.' Nevertheless, I'm willing to apply doubt and then some efforts at reasoning things out.

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.ren
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Quote .ren:
Quote stwo:
Quote BillGM:

...You're absolutely right ......

......You're right blinded mindless patriotism ......

Your

Here's how I interpreted those two sentences:

You are absolutely right, this is the very game [that] is being played on us now by the oligarchy that plays us like small children....

..... You are right. Blinded mindless patriotism is what put us here and there is only one thing that will change that.

"Its" kind of an internet meme to do that single word grammatical correction thing and ignore the overall topic of the post. Only this time I "corrected" the correct words with incorrect words. Mixin it up a lil bit, eh?

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Pretty much everything I've ever written professionally has been edited. Editors make mistakes too. Some of the worst are mistaking intent and then changing the whole meaning of something, which requires me editing the editor and then the editor editing me. Things do get mixed up.

And, no, I don't see myself mixing it up a bit on the board. Debaters can debate their opinions all they want. I do what I do.

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

for me communication and grammar skills have always been a challenge, along with phonic and spelling challenges. I have been clinically diagnosed with moderate to severe dyslexia, which impairs the time it takes for the input and output of written information. But in the same diagnosis my intellectual abilities range from average to well above average. So this is a disability that only impairs my communication skills and not my thought process. I have adapted to these flaws and have found ways around it. One being that I now use a dictation program called Dragon NaturallySpeaking,which does not always write down what I'm saying correctly because of pronunciations and a true lack of grammar skills. So there will be no shortage of typos and flaws in future dictations, but the point I'm trying to articulate to should be recognizable to most. There is a plus with dealing with dyslexia and that is a number of other skills the mind develops to compensate. Now I'm not comparing myself to the greatest minds of the world, but here's some of them who also are dyslexic.

  • Ann Bancroft, Arctic Explorer.
  • Alexander Graham Bell.
  • John Britten, Inventor.
  • Pierre Curie, Physicist (1903 Nobel Prize).
  • Thomas Edison.
  • Albert Einstein.
  • Michael Faraday.
  • Carol Greider, Molecular Biologist, awarded 2009 Nobel Prize in Medicine

my point being, judge me by the contents of my thoughts as you have done and not my grammar or typos and I appreciate that. With that out of the way, let's find a solution to these problems and act on them.

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BillGM
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you just don't get this: it

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stwo
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Quote BillGM:for me communication and grammar skills have always been a challenge, along with phonic and spelling challenges. I have been clinically diagnosed with moderate to severe dyslexia, which impairs the time it takes for the input and output of written information. But in the same diagnosis my intellectual abilities range from average to well above average. So this is a disability that only impairs my communication skills and not my thought process. I have adapted to these flaws and have found ways around it. One being that I now use a dictation program called Dragon NaturallySpeaking,which does not always write down what I'm saying correctly because of pronunciations and a true lack of grammar skills. So there will be no shortage of typos and flaws in future dictations, but the point I'm trying to articulate to should be recognizable to most. There is a plus with dealing with dyslexia and that is a number of other skills the mind develops to compensate. Now I'm not comparing myself to the greatest minds of the world, but here's some of them who also are dyslexic.

  • Ann Bancroft, Arctic Explorer.
  • Alexander Graham Bell.
  • John Britten, Inventor.
  • Pierre Curie, Physicist (1903 Nobel Prize).
  • Thomas Edison.
  • Albert Einstein.
  • Michael Faraday.
  • Carol Greider, Molecular Biologist, awarded 2009 Nobel Prize in Medicine

my point being, judge me by the contents of my thoughts as you have done and not my grammar or typos and I appreciate that. With that out of the way, let's find a solution to these problems and act on them.

Believe it or not, I don't judge. I am an insincere equal opportunity troll.

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

okay okay, it wasn't my intention to get off topic. let's stay focused on the planet and not my shortcomings of grammar. I'm sorry if I pulled us off subject it wasn't my intention.

Has anybody had any success in educating people they interact with and beyond.

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BillGM
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Mar. 28, 2016 10:15 pm

No need to blame yourself.

I don't feel it's my role to educate anyone. I feel it's up to the individual to learn how to ask questions and figure things out. I don't figure our education system does much to encourage that, so it's up to us. I call it learning to learn. It's a life's work.

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.ren
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http://gizmodo.com/study-people-who-point-out-typos-are-jerks-1767969516

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I took a wild guess at what you might have meant in post #8. If my response doesn't seem to follow, then now I guess I got it wrong.

Let me just say that it appears to me what you are doing when correcting someone who has made an error in word usage or grammar is a form of editing. In this case it was more in the order of punctuation, not the writer mistaking 'you're' for 'your.' Understanding the writer's intent is part of editing.

With your last sentence I didn't know if you were referring to me or yourself.

Still wondering if you have any thoughts on the topic.

Added comment on post #15: I'm more concerned with communicating in a mutually agreed-upon manner rather than a correct one.

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.ren
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Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

post #15 is self referential.

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stwo
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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

Since we've been discussing patriotism as a manipulative tool on the one hand, and as an aspect of standing or falling on the other, then perhaps something Chris Hedges wrote on the subject in this week's online edition of truthdig bears reading.

The Lie of Patriotism

Some may take offense at the way he fleshes out its meaning, so let me just say that Chris can get a little preachy at times, for my taste, but nevertheless, he's one of the more passionate public intellectuals out there who is willing to stand rather than fall under the wheels of industrial civilizaton, especially its peculiar version created by what's become a kind of American oligarchic empire.

Many of us who have served have had to come to grips with the powerful social forces that Hedges brings out in the article. Attitudinal forces of belief that can make up a lie when we put something conceptual like "love of country" together with a set of socially constructed rules of expected behavior. If a majority of citizens unquestioningly believe in gross concepts of that sort, rather than offering respect to an individual who expresses subjective and questioning perceptions of what they actually see and experience, the possibility of reasonable democratic discussion transforms into a battle of beliefs. Here's a bit from the article to illustrate my meaning:

Quote Chris Hedges:

Nationalists do not venerate veterans. They venerate veterans who read from the approved patriotic script. America is the greatest and most powerful country on earth. Those we fight are depraved barbarians. Our enemies deserve death. God is on our side. Victory is assured. Our soldiers and Marines are heroes. Deviate from this cant, no matter how many military tours you may have served, and you become despicable. The vaunted patriotism of the right wing is about self-worship. It is a raw lust for violence. It is blind subservience to the state. And it works to censor the reality of war.

And, per this thread, blind subservience to the state works not just to censor the reality of war, but the reality of many issues.

For instance, if we combine a love of country associated with love of the "developed technological advances of one's nation," as expressed in those Exceptionalist dictums such as, "the United States is the greatest nation on earth," with politics and crowds, then patriotic feelings can quickly merge with notions of civil liberty and economic free enterprise. This merger of ideas can quickly and uncritically gloss together gross concepts like the evolution of corporate technological production and related national standard of living notions.

If those standard of living issues appear to be at risk for a growing sector of the population, this potential merger of patriotism and technocracy can result in a candidate running for president telling his willing and often hurting listeners, perhaps even fervent followers, that he knows how to make the United States great again." Then we can get a kind of blindness to all sorts of issues that would be part of a democratic debate, if democracy were the rule rather than the exception to American Exceptionalism. Aspects of that blindness will include ending any hope of openly discussing the way we humans as a whole social force are deleteriously effecting systemic changes in our fellow living beings on this planet, and even the climate itself.

The following is is not new. Many of us who came home from Vietnam with deep questions about what our nation was doing in the world experienced similar turns of attitude when we openly voiced our questions:

Quote Chris Hedges:

When Rory Fanning, a burly veteran who served in the 2nd Army Ranger Battalion and was deployed in Afghanistan in 2002 and 2004, appeared at the Donald Trump rally in Chicago last month he was wearing the top half of his combat fatigues. As he moved through the crowd, dozens of Trump supporters shouted greetings such as “Welcome home, brother” and “Thank you for your service.” Then came the protest that shut down the rally. Fanning, one of the demonstrators, pulled out a flag that read “Vets Against Racism, War and Empire.”

“Immediately someone threw a drink on me,” he said when I interviewed him on my teleSUR show, “Days of Revolt.” “I got hit from behind in the head three or four times. It was quite the switch, quite the pivot on me. Questioning the narrative, questioning Donald Trump’s narrative, and I was suddenly out of their good graces.”

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Quote BillGM:Has anybody had any success in educating people they interact with and beyond.
Yes, I have been able to help many people understand the absurdity of the hyperbolic claims of environmentalists and CAGW adherents. I've helped them see the parallels between the behavior of leftist environmental activists and lysenkoism.

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stwo
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Quote stwo:
Quote BillGM:

Has anybody had any success in educating people they interact with and beyond

Yes, I have been able to help many people understand the absurdity of the hyperbolic claims of environmentalists and CAGW adherents. I've helped them see the parallels between the behavior of leftist environmental activists and lysenkoism.

Not hyperbolic at all, certainly not. 'Absurdity,' after all, is a fact, not a subjective opinion. But it does sort of look like a fancy way of calling them pinkos, or worse.

In modern parlance, conservative writers in the United States (particularly those advocating racist thinking, either covertly or overtly) have sometimes used the term "neo-Lysenkoism" as a snarl word to attack those who do not support their "biological" views of race.

(rationalwiki)

And just what are those parallels you see? Please educate us.

Personally, I see many parallels between Lysenkoism and world-wide political corporatism, especially the anti-science propaganda version that promotes a public denialism of human responsibility for many of the changes taking place in the world. Changes that I find by reading science journals, research papers and historical measurements.

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.ren
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https://youtu.be/wM6Ilhqms_8

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Jul. 31, 2007 3:01 pm

.ren as you're at the very lest an amateur anthropologist I thought you'd be interested in this piece I ran across a couple of days ago on my way to my daily cross word fix:

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/a-student-of-cultural-envir...

I haven't gotten through all the links yet but I know you'll make short work of it.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Thank you, rs. So far it looks like the kind of thinking I find stimulating.

Quote Robert MacFarlane:

The idea of the Anthropocene asks hard questions of us. Temporally, it requires that we imagine ourselves inhabitants not just of a human lifetime or generation, but also of “deep time” – the dizzyingly profound eras of Earth history that extend both behind and ahead of the present. Politically, it lays bare some of the complex cross-weaves of vulnerability and culpability that exist between us and other species, as well as between humans now and humans to come. Conceptually, it warrants us to consider once again whether – in Fredric Jameson’s phrase – “the modernization process is complete, and nature is gone for good,” leaving nothing but us.

There are good reasons to be skeptical of the epitaphic impulse to declare “the end of nature.” There are also good reasons to be skeptical of the Anthropocene’s absolutism, the political presumptions it encodes, and the specific histories of power and violence that it masks. But the Anthropocene is a massively forceful concept, and as such it bears detailed thinking through.

Doncha just love coming across words like 'epitaphic'? Sounds like something I'd make up, which no one would find in a dictionary. I don't even know how someone literate would sound saying it. I had to work it through several times before I realized it comes from 'epitaph' and then the dawning of comprehension ensues. I think I could use it now, but I don't know if I'd be saying it right, because, after all, no one in my small community of co-babble-ators, which includes a retired professor who taught at Cambridge, ever used the word so that I can make pronunciation comparisons.

"...the Anthropocene is a massively forceful concept, and as such it bears detailed thinking through." Or dismissing with a conservative shrug. There is no evidence it will occur...

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

" Or dismissing with a conservative shrug. There is no evidence it will occur...."

I got a chuckle out of that line, we could revive the Merchants of Doubt thread on that .ren.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Yes, we could. But for me, it's always present now. That's the beauty of a detailed thinking through while being skeptical of the absolutisms people will tend to create in an epitaphic manner of laying to rest a troubling subject before it can be explored.

I've ever had difficulty favoring archeological and physical or cultural anthropology. The thing about archeology is it is, by necessity, integrally married with the science of geology, and it's in geology where we find the physical evidence that leads to various conclusions, most of which are "epitaphic" (when created) about our ancestor's cultural behaviors. Ah, and do those change as new evidence emerges from the detailed picking and brushing of the earth, much to the despair of the epitaph etchers!

But -- and here's the problem with favoring one of the earth sciences over the problem of being human and thinking about the earth as a fully empathic, humanistic being -- we dare not lay to rest the processes of the world, because they go on even though we close ourselves off to them. So I also love the musings of cultural anthropologists. It can't be either/or for me. And therefore dogmatic conclusions have to be left in the graveyard of thoughts as we move on. I wonder how many, if any, in MoveOn dot org see it that way?

.ren's picture
.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

I'm enjoying the musings from your links, rs. I'm glad I have three screens to play on. I have articles opened all across my visual spectrum now.

Generation Anthropocene: How humans have altered the planet for ever, by Robert MacFarlane

In 2003 the Australian philosopher Glenn Albrecht coined the term solastalgia to mean a “form of psychic or existential distress caused by environmental change”. Albrecht was studying the effects of long-term drought and large-scale mining activity on communities in New South Wales, when he realised that no word existed to describe the unhappiness of people whose landscapes were being transformed about them by forces beyond their control. He proposed his new term to describe this distinctive kind of homesickness.

I'm so pleased to know that word, that was only so recently coined: solastalgia. I tried it in a couple of online dictionaries and got responses like: did you mean?... and: the word you entered isn't in the dictionary. At least it's in Wikipedia: Solastalgia.

But it's meaning is in my mind, and has been for quite some time. Oh, I know, we are supposed to be so reasonable, and if facts aren't present, let alone the actual attempt at words to describe our state of mind recorded in some dictionary, it must not matter enough to us to bother with. One of the arguments against the dictionary movement that only arose in the past few centuries is they can be too conservative in relation to our language creation capacities. I think it's an argument worth some thought.

But what solastalgia means does matter... to some of us. I refuse to disappear at the whim of those who don't want to explore these meanings some of us experience and feel.

I was already well aware of my own ever growing solastalgia back in the late eighties when I met Robert Pyle at an Earth Day fair on Western's campus in Bellingham. A friend of mine had taken part in organizing the fair, and she knew Robert personally, had invited him to take part. We sat together and had coffee after his talk about his book, which I bought, Wintergreen: Rambles in a Ravaged Land, originally published in 1986. Some years later I retired to the Willapa watershed he writes about.

I retired there (now here, for me) just before the term was coined, with the conscious knowledge that I was not running from my solastalgia, and that I would challenge myself the rest of my life to experience it directly each day, and face what humanity was doing to this planet on a broad scale.

Quote Robert MacFarlane:

Where the pain of nostalgia arises from moving away, the pain of solastalgia arises from staying put. Where the pain of nostalgia can be mitigated by return, the pain of solastalgia tends to be irreversible.

Here's the blurb from the Amazon site about the book:

In the Willapa Hills of southwest Washington, both the human community and the forest community are threatened with extinction. Virtually every acre of the hills has been logged, often repeatedly, in the past hundred years, endangering both the land and the people, leaving dying towns as well as a devastated ecosystem. Weaving vivid portraits of the place and its inhabitants—animal, plant, and human—with the story of his own love affair with the hills, Robert Michael Pyle has written a book so even-handed in its passion that it has been celebrated by those who make their living with a chain saw as well as by environmentalists. As he writes, 'My sympathies lie with the people and the woods, but not with the companies that have used them both with equal disregard.'
In his vivid portrayal of the land, plants, people and animals of the Willapa Hills of Washington State, Bob Pyle makes the modest patch of land he writes about a metaphor for the world.

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.ren
Joined:
Apr. 1, 2010 6:50 am

America: Meet Your Overlord Rupert Murdoch...

Thom plus logo The main lesson that we've learned so far from the impeachment hearings is that if Richard Nixon had had a billionaire like Rupert Murdoch with a television network like Fox News behind him, he never would've resigned and America would have continued to be presided over by a criminal.
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