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Gender Idiocy

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And the shampoo was er, close at hand.

rs allen
Joined:
Mar. 15, 2012 5:55 pm
Quote Toddedyer:
Quote Zenzoe:
Quote Toddedyer:

... Learn to stop spewing so much hate onto these threads!

Really? Seems to me you're the one spewing all the hate, judging by your last three comments.

Dyslexia is not an excuse to write incoherently. If it were, these authors wouldn't have been able to write as brilliantly as they did.

I don't try to write clearly because I'm a "type A," which I doubt I am, btw. I like to put my thoughts before others so as not to cause confusion; if you don't like what I say, it won't be because I didn't make myself clear enough. Apparently, you don't care if you confuse the reader, and nobody has any idea what you're trying to say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-on_sentence

One in five people are dylexic I being rude to you so learn to not be rude and arrogant to them! I have a huge ego i could careless what u think of me! Unlike many dylexics i can reread things like five times and catch my mistake. Grasp this, the anger you have for me, is something you clearly caused to someone like me. So call me karma and stop tearing into people like arogant type As do! Many dylexics are horribly ashamed of it and feel humiliated when others point it out online. Most just stop posting! People like you silence their voices. So sorry, it my obligation to them, to point this out and rudely because you were rude even if you're blind too see it!

First of all, Todd, I was not angry with you— rude, yes, in being honest about my experience in reading your stuff. But unlike you, I didn't call you any names, I merely pointed out that I couldn't make sense of your writing. You can be as incoherent as you please, but I notice you now show that you can write complete sentences and respect your readers enough not to confuse them with run-on sentences and non-sequiturs.

I still don't know for sure where you stand on this issue, however.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Guys would not mind a naked female in the same shower (as long as the water was hot).

Hi Doug.

Well, yes, many guys would enjoy it, for being aroused, if that's your implication. The operative factor there would be that men as a class have not been historically threatened, beaten, raped and murdered by women, and so they're free to feel aroused at the sight of a naked woman. Other guys might not appreciate it, feeling their own privacy had been violated, even though they might not want to reveal such feelings. But some, and I mean a very few, might take advantage of the situation, given no other males present to intervene, and rape said transgendered "male," who is a biological female still.

That's why I said that FTM transgenders may not be safe in such showers. It's obvious, but, oh well.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote rs allen:

We're mostly progressives here.......

I vote we give dyslexics their own lane, no no wait, I vote they get their very own entire highway system along with all the directions and cautions written by them. No need for any lanes. Aah heck, why even use any directions or cautions it'd just be a waste of time and materials.

Eh, now where'd I put that plastic Jesus? I'll probably need it.

Lmao, good one!

Toddedyer's picture
Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am
Quote Zenzoe:
Quote Toddedyer:
Quote Zenzoe:
Quote Toddedyer:

... Learn to stop spewing so much hate onto these threads!

Really? Seems to me you're the one spewing all the hate, judging by your last three comments.

Dyslexia is not an excuse to write incoherently. If it were, these authors wouldn't have been able to write as brilliantly as they did.

I don't try to write clearly because I'm a "type A," which I doubt I am, btw. I like to put my thoughts before others so as not to cause confusion; if you don't like what I say, it won't be because I didn't make myself clear enough. Apparently, you don't care if you confuse the reader, and nobody has any idea what you're trying to say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-on_sentence

One in five people are dylexic I being rude to you so learn to not be rude and arrogant to them! I have a huge ego i could careless what u think of me! Unlike many dylexics i can reread things like five times and catch my mistake. Grasp this, the anger you have for me, is something you clearly caused to someone like me. So call me karma and stop tearing into people like arogant type As do! Many dylexics are horribly ashamed of it and feel humiliated when others point it out online. Most just stop posting! People like you silence their voices. So sorry, it my obligation to them, to point this out and rudely because you were rude even if you're blind too see it!

First of all, Todd, I was not angry with you— rude, yes, in being honest about my experience in reading your stuff. But unlike you, I didn't call you any names, I merely pointed out that I couldn't make sense of your writing. You can be as incoherent as you please, but I notice you now show that you can write complete sentences and respect your readers enough not to confuse them with run-on sentences and non-sequiturs.

I still don't know for sure where you stand on this issue, however.

If i offended I will apologize, its how you pointed out that I trying to get u to grasp can be very rude to dylexics! Seriously just dont write it like a grammer teacher anger about the fact cell phone have ruined the English language.

The high-school I graduated from in the locker room a kid was held down and his privates were duck taped. When removing the duct tape it also removed skin. This prank actually seriously traumatized that boy. We can go threw all the similar bullying that have taken more extreme turns in lockerooms or bathrooms. Honesty how many kids have been swirled in tollets? These places are far from safe environments in schools.

We can talk about the coach who molested his athletes in the lockeroom that was major news story some years back. The fact adult men have access to viewing young boys and a unsafe hidden place to than attack them! These same things can be said for female lockerooms.

These places have been unsafe for many reasons, we as a society have not been outraged or freaked out until its a trans kid trying to use them! The solution to making them safe is removing the communal aspect of these places. Making them more private and more protected. Even when I was in highschool I honestly always thought the massive showers we very strange and out of place. Well outside of like an ancient greek style society were everything is homoerotic!

Toddedyer's picture
Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am
Quote douglaslee:

Guys would not mind a naked female in the same shower (as long as the water was hot).

I want you to picture like an assisted living place for seniors, 90 year old women who's breasts are tripping hazards in the shower and than will discuss your theory. If that has not made you recant than how about shower room with rascal scooter acess for very obesed people!

Toddedyer's picture
Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am

Yes, Todd, I now understand your position: You believe the communal aspect of these public spaces, where individuals are forced to give up their privacy rights, is the problem. If I’ve got that right, and that is your point, I agree.

Imagine having communal bathrooms in your own home— you may not go into the bathroom by yourself and expect privacy, to sit on the toilet and read by yourself, or take a shower, or put on make-up, or change clothes, or just pee in private; no, you have to leave the door open, so that other members of your family, or your roommates, can just walk in anytime and invade your privacy. How would that go over?! Not so well!

Somehow we’ve been conditioned by our schools and other institutions to give up that natural modesty and right to privacy that we expect automatically in our homes. Suddenly, once you go to school, you’re no longer allowed the “luxury” of modesty.

I say privacy is a human right. Violations of privacy humiliate and degrade individuals, injuring autonomy and individuality. Notice that the first thing authoritarians do, once they have you in their prison, or their military, extermination, or detention camp, is to force group nudity. We think of Abu Ghraib and immediately recognize such violations of forced nudity as authoritarian abuse, given the special sensitivity Afghans have to being nude in front of others. But that sensitivity should be something we can respect in ourselves as well. I know I have it in situations not of my choosing.

But do not dare suggest to trans advocates that people of all sexes and ages deserve to protect their privacy rights. You’ll be attacked, threatened and/or told you’re “selfish,” and anybody who clings to those rights have "hangups." You’re shamed for not wishing to be shamed! "You don't want to look at my penis— shame on you! What a selfish bitch!!!"

I used to have a hard time with the notion of liberal authoritarianism. Now I see that it IS A THING: "go along with our authority and our cause, or die:"

Quote Derrick Jensen:

...you must be aware that the phrase “transphobe” is routinely used as a rhetorical cudgel to browbeat many women into silence and submission, women who want nothing more, in many cases, than to be allowed to use the bathroom or locker room or shelter free from the presence of biological males…

...The women I know who have been called “transphobic”—and who have been threatened with rape, other forms of torture, and murder by many of the very same biological males who are labeling these women as “transphobic”—are not, in fact, “transphobic” in that none of them wish to exploit or wish any harm on people who identify as transgender. They don’t want for them to be murdered. They don’t want for them to be imprisoned. They don’t for them to be raped. They don’t want for them kicked out of their homes. They don’t want for them to be harmed in any way. They don’t want for them to be exploited. They don’t perceive them as inferior. They don’t care with whom they sleep. They don’t care what they wear. They don’t care how they organize. They don’t care how much money they make. They have no desire to control the lives of these others.

They just disagree that those biological males who identify as “transgender” are women, and they mainly want to be left alone. And for that they are labeled as “transphobic.”

Disagreement is not hate speech, and disagreement doesn’t imply “phobia.” Any hatreds being manifested here are by those who threaten rape and murder when women do not submit. But that’s a story we’ve all heard before.

I’m not suggesting that transphobic violence doesn’t occur, but those who perpetrate it are a whole different set, a whole different politics, and a whole different sex.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Pedestrian myself, and biker and we have bike lanes...but, re:IQ prejudice

more companies are testing applicants on a range of skills, judgment, and knowledge. CEB, one of the world’s largest providers of hiring assessments, evaluates more than 40 million job applicants each year. The number of new hires who report having been tested nearly doubled from 2008 to 2013, says CEB. To be sure, many of these tests scrutinize personality and skills, rather than intelligence. But intelligence and cognitive-skills tests are popular and growing more so. In addition, many employers now ask applicants for SAT scores (whose correlation with IQ is well established); some companies screen out those whose scores don’t fall in the top 5 percent. Even the NFL gives potential draftees a test, the Wonderlic.
Top 5% IQ is 125+.

IQ correlates positively with academic success at about .7. Therefore, if academic success means that those qualities of knowledge retention, critical thinking, and problem solving required to succeed in the modern world have been imparted, then IQ, in the form of the ability to solve complex problems in limited time, matters.

A minimum IQ score of 130 -132 is required for Mensa membership, which is comprised of those in the top 2% of IQ in the total population. There are other high IQ clubs, too, most notably Intertel, which requires scores in the top 1%, and the Triple Nine Society, which requires scores at or above the .999th percentile for admission.

Ulysses's picture
Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Pedestrian myself, and biker and we have bike lanes...but, re:IQ prejudice

more companies are testing applicants on a range of skills, judgment, and knowledge. CEB, one of the world’s largest providers of hiring assessments, evaluates more than 40 million job applicants each year. The number of new hires who report having been tested nearly doubled from 2008 to 2013, says CEB. To be sure, many of these tests scrutinize personality and skills, rather than intelligence. But intelligence and cognitive-skills tests are popular and growing more so. In addition, many employers now ask applicants for SAT scores (whose correlation with IQ is well established); some companies screen out those whose scores don’t fall in the top 5 percent. Even the NFL gives potential draftees a test, the Wonderlic.
Top 5% IQ is 125+.

IQ correlates positively with academic success at about .7. Therefore, if academic success means that those qualities of knowledge retention, critical thinking, and problem solving required to succeed in the modern world have been imparted, then IQ, in the form of the ability to solve complex problems in limited time, matters.

A minimum IQ score of 130 -132 is required for Mensa membership, which is comprised of those in the top 2% of IQ in the total population. There are other high IQ clubs, too, most notably Intertel, which requires scores in the top 1%, and the Triple Nine Society, which requires scores at or above the .999th percentile for admission.

Ulysses's picture
Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Coalage1:

Where does this stop, or does it ever stop? Are we, as a society, supposed to accomodate the wishes of every person who claims a "special" need when they otherwise seem fine?

For example, from now on, when I drive my car, I want all the other drivers to stay at least 100 feet away from me because I get nervous around a lot of traffic. Its just not fair to me that I have to endure this form of agony when i drive. Better still, I want a whole new lane built on all the United States highways just so I can have my own lane to drive in. Yeah, that is a much better solution. My own personal driving lane...just for me wherever I go in this great big country. Thanks everyone...I'm sure you won't mind this one little accomodation to help me out.

Problem is, Coalage1, is that nervous drivers have never been beaten, raped, killed, tortured, etc. etc. etc. because of being a nervous driver. I too, tire of the endless parade of controversial social issues that seem to forever divide us, but I just shrug my shoulders because I am a straight white male who has never had to put up with the dangers and indignities that some of these groups have had to deal with. Whether we support them or not..and I support most of them...they're gonna happen, so I say we support them and fight the real problems, which is the corporate, financial, and military domination of our economy.

al3's picture
al3
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Zenzoe:Dyslexia is not an excuse to write incoherently. If it were, these authors wouldn't have been able to write as brilliantly as they did.
The advent of the heavy use of email in the '90s really separated those who paid attention in English and Grammar classes, and who did not. I remember it was surprising, in the corporate organization where I worked, at who could, and could not express themselves in writing, once we got email. Some people were really horrible. Sometimes I would just laugh. And these were mostly college educated professionals. It really had nothing to do with their level in the organization. As a matter of fact, those higher up, many times, had terrible grammar and spellling. Probably from having Secretaries doing all the work for years. However, over time, even the worse offenders cleaned their acts up over time; it was surprising.

I will say that I find the use of "u" and "ur" instead of "you" and "your," and the other abbreviations young people use... to be extremely annoying, if they are used outside of text messaging. It distracts from the message that they are conveying because I have to stop and be annoyed by it, then continue reading. But then I'm an older person who does not have the patience to type on a tablet.

al3's picture
al3
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I was in New York for some of the early Gay Pride Parades and volunteered to work an information table in the fight against the Briggs Initiative in San Francisco. I have seen too much vicious homophobic violence to almost be bearable in one lifetime. It strikes me that much of it, like much of the hate being spewed about bathrooms on this blog has nothing to do with gays, transsexuals, or bathrooms.

Harvey Milk used to talk about how there were some people who just get their jollies out of hating, but society frowns on people doing or saying hateful things to its members, so they have to look to those not welcomed into mainstream society as a place to pour their hateful actions and words. They attack the outsiders not because they actually hate them but because society will let them. This was the driving emotion in the people who enjoyed a good public hanging in the 1800's, a fun lynching in the 1900's, raping and sometimes killing prostitutes in the second half of the 20th century and who were always up for a nice gay bashing. This would seem to be the emotion behind most trolls on the Internet today.

I really don't think most of you shits give a damn about bathroom design, I think your upset that one more group of outsiders is being welcomed into society and you will lose one more group at whom you can aim your cruelty.

The world is getting kinder, you will just have to adjust.

Helen Willis
Joined:
Apr. 18, 2015 10:37 am
Quote Ulysses:

Yes, no question about it, if we're going to be a truly caring and inclusive society, no female-to-male trans can be refused health insurance for prostate cancer...

More importantly, they must be forced to pay for prostate cancer coverage.

stwo's picture
stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote Helen Willis:

... I have seen too much vicious homophobic violence to almost be bearable in one lifetime….


And virtually none of that violence has been inflicted against gays by women who just want to have a place to do their private business safe from biological males of any persuasion.

Given the fact that biological women have historically been the victims of male violence —harassment, beatings, rapes, murders— one might expect you to comprehend the need for such safe places for women. But no…

Do women’s lives matter in your universe?

Quote Helen Willis:
Harvey Milk used to talk about how there were some people who just get their jollies out of hating...

...I really don't think most of you shits...

"You shits?" Now who’s doing the hating, Helen?!

Quote Helen Willis:

The world is getting kinder, you will just have to adjust.

What’s “kind” about an attitude that deprives people of their privacy rights? What’s kind about disregarding the fears of women and labeling them variously as “transphobic," "cruel," and "hateful," all the while silencing them and/or threatening them with torture, death, rape and beheadings just for wishing to be private and safe?

What’s “kind” about these trans activists who interrupted a peaceful conference to dominate and control the space, effectively violating the speech rights of the DGR representatives? I call it aggressive, obnoxious, authoritarian, intolerant and just plain mean and nasty.

...He accused DGR of “transphobia.” This is absurd. The book and other materials never even mention the words “transgender” or “queer,” let alone include calls to dehumanize or harm anyone. They do, however, contain a feminist critique of gender. The disagreement is that queer/trans activists believe gender is a binary, and we believe it’s a hierarchy.

That’s it. That’s why they attacked us.

And in the time since, queer/trans activists have threatened DGR members with arson, rape, murder. They have created photoshopped pictures of us simulating bestiality. They have called for mass beheading of DGR members. We have done none of those things to anyone. Any member of DGR who did would be banned immediately. Yet queer/trans activists are accusing us of intolerance and hate.

Seriously?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/21/55123/

Gender is not a binary! To think it is a binary is where the idiocy begins.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Deep-Green-Resistance-Strategy-Planet/ Derrick Jenson

Their target spotters need new glasses or at least listen before attacking.

douglaslee's picture
douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

I'm gettin' major laughs outta this whole back-and-forth! While I'm against trans (especially male-to-female trans) use of women's restrooms, I can also see the uncomfortable squirming of the One Trick Pony of Alleged Sexism, and that's hilarious! The Pony has formed and built her identity on what she considers pure and ideologically absolute feminist ethos, pathos, and bathos. Bringing binary into it causes the Pony massive, deep-seated trepidation, because due to her absolute emotional and psychological investments in feminismo and victimhood, both of which she can and does claim to own and control as a proxy the entire female race, it's impossible for her to own and control anything binary, so she's left with no choice other than to deny and disavow binarity as she experiences massive cognitive dissonance. Hee!, Hee!, Hee!

But Oh, Helen's Bells, I still oppose male-to-female trans' use of women's restrooms unless/until they've had the operation. They shouldn't be trusted in there otherwise, Helen!

(While I believe all trans should be civilly equal to all other citizens under law and have all rights of citizenship possessed by all other law-abiding citizens, including the right to be left alone, I also believe, along with the Pony, that binarity -- as distinct from bisexuality -- is nonsense.)

Ulysses's picture
Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Zenzoe:

Yes, Todd, I now understand your position: You believe the communal aspect of these public spaces, where individuals are forced to give up their privacy rights, is the problem. If I’ve got that right, and that is your point, I agree.

Imagine having communal bathrooms in your own home— you may not go into the bathroom by yourself and expect privacy, to sit on the toilet and read by yourself, or take a shower, or put on make-up, or change clothes, or just pee in private; no, you have to leave the door open, so that other members of your family, or your roommates, can just walk in anytime and invade your privacy. How would that go over?! Not so well!

Somehow we’ve been conditioned by our schools and other institutions to give up that natural modesty and right to privacy that we expect automatically in our homes. Suddenly, once you go to school, you’re no longer allowed the “luxury” of modesty.

I say privacy is a human right. Violations of privacy humiliate and degrade individuals, injuring autonomy and individuality. Notice that the first thing authoritarians do, once they have you in their prison, or their military, extermination, or detention camp, is to force group nudity. We think of Abu Ghraib and immediately recognize such violations of forced nudity as authoritarian abuse, given the special sensitivity Afghans have to being nude in front of others. But that sensitivity should be something we can respect in ourselves as well. I know I have it in situations not of my choosing.

But do not dare suggest to trans advocates that people of all sexes and ages deserve to protect their privacy rights. You’ll be attacked, threatened and/or told you’re “selfish,” and anybody who clings to those rights have "hangups." You’re shamed for not wishing to be shamed! "You don't want to look at my penis— shame on you! What a selfish bitch!!!"

I used to have a hard time with the notion of liberal authoritarianism. Now I see that it IS A THING: "go along with our authority and our cause, or die:"

Quote Derrick Jensen:

...you must be aware that the phrase “transphobe” is routinely used as a rhetorical cudgel to browbeat many women into silence and submission, women who want nothing more, in many cases, than to be allowed to use the bathroom or locker room or shelter free from the presence of biological males…

...The women I know who have been called “transphobic”—and who have been threatened with rape, other forms of torture, and murder by many of the very same biological males who are labeling these women as “transphobic”—are not, in fact, “transphobic” in that none of them wish to exploit or wish any harm on people who identify as transgender. They don’t want for them to be murdered. They don’t want for them to be imprisoned. They don’t for them to be raped. They don’t want for them kicked out of their homes. They don’t want for them to be harmed in any way. They don’t want for them to be exploited. They don’t perceive them as inferior. They don’t care with whom they sleep. They don’t care what they wear. They don’t care how they organize. They don’t care how much money they make. They have no desire to control the lives of these others.

They just disagree that those biological males who identify as “transgender” are women, and they mainly want to be left alone. And for that they are labeled as “transphobic.”

Disagreement is not hate speech, and disagreement doesn’t imply “phobia.” Any hatreds being manifested here are by those who threaten rape and murder when women do not submit. But that’s a story we’ve all heard before.

I’m not suggesting that transphobic violence doesn’t occur, but those who perpetrate it are a whole different set, a whole different politics, and a whole different sex.

i do not disagree with what you wrote. I personally do not understand transgendered but you did grasp the point i was making. For most culture wars there is typically a better arguement or solution than the ones we end up with. The gay marriage issues could of to me be better solved as the government getting rid of marriage licenses and making it a civil union void of needing to be married. Two elderly friends or family members than could obtain them, etc. You than would take government out of marriage and the fuss over it would pass with time.

Toddedyer's picture
Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am
Quote Toddedyer:

i do not disagree with what you wrote. I personally do not understand transgendered but you did grasp the point i was making. For most culture wars there is typically a better arguement or solution than the ones we end up with. The gay marriage issues could of to me be better solved as the government getting rid of marriage licenses and making it a civil union void of needing to be married. Two elderly friends or family members than could obtain them, etc. You than would take government out of marriage and the fuss over it would pass with time.

finally posting when sober? or more than one person is posting under this sock? what happen to "dyklexia"?

stwo's picture
stwo
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Ulysses:

I'm gettin' major laughs outta this whole back-and-forth! While I'm against trans (especially male-to-female trans) use of women's restrooms, I can also see the uncomfortable squirming of the One Trick Pony of Alleged Sexism, and that's hilarious! The Pony has formed and built her identity on what she considers pure and ideologically absolute feminist ethos, pathos, and bathos. Bringing binary into it causes the Pony massive, deep-seated trepidation, because due to her absolute emotional and psychological investments in feminismo and victimhood, both of which she can and does claim to own and control as a proxy the entire female race, it's impossible for her to own and control anything binary, so she's left with no choice other than to deny and disavow binarity as she experiences massive cognitive dissonance. Hee!, Hee!, Hee!

You know what, Ulysses, I am sick and tired of your relentless ad hominems, your nasty, childish attacks against me. I wouldn't care if you disagreed with my positions on issues, if you could manage to confine your comments to the topics. But apparently you're incapable of addressing me with the respect that I deserve as a human being and will be conducting your harassment, EVEN WHEN WE AGREE ON A SUBJECT, from here on, ad nauseam and forever!

Sexism is a thing. It happens. It's real. And it's real even among liberals and progressives. How about directing your ire toward that thing, rather than toward someone who knows it when she sees it.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Zenzoe:
Quote Ulysses:

I'm gettin' major laughs outta this whole back-and-forth! While I'm against trans (especially male-to-female trans) use of women's restrooms, I can also see the uncomfortable squirming of the One Trick Pony of Alleged Sexism, and that's hilarious! The Pony has formed and built her identity on what she considers pure and ideologically absolute feminist ethos, pathos, and bathos. Bringing binary into it causes the Pony massive, deep-seated trepidation, because due to her absolute emotional and psychological investments in feminismo and victimhood, both of which she can and does claim to own and control as a proxy the entire female race, it's impossible for her to own and control anything binary, so she's left with no choice other than to deny and disavow binarity as she experiences massive cognitive dissonance. Hee!, Hee!, Hee!

You know what, Ulysses, I am sick and tired of your relentless ad hominems, your nasty, childish attacks against me. I wouldn't care if you disagreed with my positions on issues, if you could manage to confine your comments to the topics. But apparently you're incapable of addressing me with the respect that I deserve as a human being and will be conducting your harassment, EVEN WHEN WE AGREE ON A SUBJECT, from here on, ad nauseam and forever!

Sexism is a thing. It happens. It's real. And it's real even among liberals and progressives. How about directing your ire toward that thing, rather than toward someone who knows it when she sees it.

Clippety Clippety Clop!

Ulysses's picture
Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Please read the terms and conditions, folks. Ad hominems are a bannable offence.

SueN's picture
SueN
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

A male to female trans using a women's bathroom is no threat to anyone. They are in a private stall, as I was when using a women's room by mistake.

LGA Laguardia coming off a plane with loose bowels approaching emergency status I saw MEN and entered my eyes blurred due to my panic did not see the WO preceding MEN. I sat in my stall that looks like men's stalls. The sounds were the same, even louder farts. Then the next stall was a guy wearing pumps I thought, this IS NY after all. Then as I poked out the door and saw no urinals, it dawned on me. I caused one double take as I exited and stepped aside for the gal entering, "You're not wrong, my mistake, sorry" - I uttered as I exited.

No harm, I saw nothing, they saw nothing, no dignity lost (mine a bit). Had I been donning a wig, no one would be the wiser and M-F trans do not sport beards and mustaches. Women have been sharing stalls with M-F for ages, they just didn't know it.

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

A male to female trans using a women's bathroom is no threat to anyone. They are in a private stall, as I was when using a women's room by mistake.

LGA Laguardia coming off a plane with loose bowels approaching emergency status I saw MEN and entered my eyes blurred due to my panic did not see the WO preceding MEN. I sat in my stall that looks like men's stalls. The sounds were the same, even louder farts. Then the next stall was a guy wearing pumps I thought, this IS NY after all. Then as I poked out the door and saw no urinals, it dawned on me. I caused one double take as I exited and stepped aside for the gal entering, "You're not wrong, my mistake, sorry" - I uttered as I exited.

No harm, I saw nothing, they saw nothing, no dignity lost (mine a bit). Had I been donning a wig, no one would be the wiser and M-F trans do not sport beards and mustaches. Women have been sharing stalls with M-F for ages, they just didn't know it.


Accidents happen, but planned violations of privacy can be a different matter, eh?

Recently, I almost had an accident of the urination kind at Los Angeles’ Union Station, when, after getting off the train from San Diego with an urgent need to pee, it turned out that the one and only women’s restroom within sight was out of order. A large group of women had formed at the entry, trying to get in, but the attendants wouldn’t allow it. I pushed forward, pleading to be allowed to use the men’s room instead, since it was available next door, but they said NO, ABSOLUTELY NO! (Apparently, some people think men have a right to privacy too. Imagine!) As it turned out, I had to leave the station with my full and near-bursting bladder threatening to leak at any moment and try to find a public restroom, as my sister and her husband patiently waited in the car. Finally, I found a one-pee-at-a-time public restroom tucked away in a hall on famed Olvera Street across the street from the train station. Ah-h-h!

Urination is highly underestimated.

See, I get it: when you gotta pee, you gotta pee. No doubt about it. Because of that, one cannot get all that picky over the options— that is, in the moment. Relief is relief.

(On Thom's forum awhile back, I do remember getting agreement on the subject of men’s needs for privacy in public restrooms, specifically w/ regard to urinals, how it’s supposedly taken as rude to glance over at the “business” of the guy at the next urinal. Wouldn’t know. I’ve never had the experience of standing in front of a urinal.)

That said, I won’t be convinced that the issue of public restrooms, locker rooms, and showers can be resolved, as long as the needs, attitudes, beliefs and feelings on one side of the issue get ignored in favor of those on one of the other sides of the issue (there are three sides, as far as I can tell). For example, to equate advocates for women-only, private spaces with bigots of the homophobic, conservative kind is a lie that serves trans feelings at the expense of women’s feelings. A better approach would be to take everyone’s feelings seriously enough to come up with solutions that satisfy all sexes and genders. What that is, I’m not sure. But I do know I am not interested in walking into a “gender neutral” restroom and seeing guys at urinals. Thanks, but no thanks.

And I wouldn’t want my granddaughters to have to shower next to pre-surgical, MTF trans “women” with their male genitals exposed. Sorry, but that’s just way too much “tolerance” to expect. In my book, to socialize little girls to ignore their natural modesty and sense of themselves as girls, by imposing forced nudity next to males, is not tolerance; it’s placation in the face of trans domination. To my mind, such acquiescence to trans ideology has the same flavor as the dynamic we see in domestic violence cases, where “victims try to placate and please their abusive partners in order to deescalate the violence.” We see such trans violence, at least on a verbal scale, in the video I mentioned earlier. More broadly, society-wide, we see such wrongheaded pressure exacted via trans issues having become the politically correct position with no room at all for other feelings and sensibilities.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Porta Potties aren't bias against who uses them...

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DdC
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Mar. 22, 2012 1:39 am

The dynamic of crotch gazin' at urinals is simple and straightforward. If a guy's in there cruising, looking for male company, the guy being gazed will approve if he catches the other guy gazin' him.

If, however, a guy's not in there for any kind of meet and greet and he's minding his own business and peeing, after which he plans to leave alone, and he's not cruising, it's sometimes going to be a fightin' offense if he catches a pecker checker ogling his tool.

Clear?

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Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote stwo:
Quote Toddedyer:

i do not disagree with what you wrote. I personally do not understand transgendered but you did grasp the point i was making. For most culture wars there is typically a better arguement or solution than the ones we end up with. The gay marriage issues could of to me be better solved as the government getting rid of marriage licenses and making it a civil union void of needing to be married. Two elderly friends or family members than could obtain them, etc. You than would take government out of marriage and the fuss over it would pass with time.

finally posting when sober? or more than one person is posting under this sock? what happen to "dyklexia"?

Look you small dic!ed twit I had two neck fusion if i sleep only a few hours a night i cant control it! Seriously your writtings on this site scream insecure small minded biggot here!

So keep writing mighty 1 inch!

If u had a higher IQ you might grasp my style stays the same which means its must be one person posting here! Keep the tin foil hat on fruit cake! P.s. I can tell by ur writting I easly have 35 points higher iq than you lmao!

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Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am
Quote Ulysses:

The dynamic of crotch gazin' at urinals is simple and straightforward. If a guy's in there cruising, looking for male company, the guy being gazed will approve if he catches the other guy gazin' him.

If, however, a guy's not in there for any kind of meet and greet and he's minding his own business and peeing, after which he plans to leave alone, and he's not cruising, it's sometimes going to be a fightin' offense if he catches a pecker checker ogling his tool.

Clear?

I've always felt annoyed when a guy enters the bathroom and uses the urinal right next to me, even though there are other urinals, further away, he could use. I have always considered this to be some type of "cruising." Maybe I'm paranoid, but to me, it's very annoying, and bad bathroom manners.

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al3
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote al3:

I've always felt annoyed when a guy enters the bathroom and uses the urinal right next to me, even though there are other urinals, further away, he could use. I have always considered this to be some type of "cruising." Maybe I'm paranoid, but to me, it's very annoying, and bad bathroom manners.

I seriously doubt you’re alone in your thoughts on that issue, Al. It only goes to show that the need for privacy is a valid one. It deserves respect. Unfortunately for you and other men who may value their privacy, other priorities beyond privacy seem to dictate whether you’ll have privacy in a restroom or not.

Urinals. What a subject!

The Urinal: A Brief Functional and Aesthetic History

A urinal in Iraq gives Iraqi men the opportunity to pee in G.W. Bush’s mouth.

This one’s better.

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote al3:
Quote Ulysses:

The dynamic of crotch gazin' at urinals is simple and straightforward. If a guy's in there cruising, looking for male company, the guy being gazed will approve if he catches the other guy gazin' him.

If, however, a guy's not in there for any kind of meet and greet and he's minding his own business and peeing, after which he plans to leave alone, and he's not cruising, it's sometimes going to be a fightin' offense if he catches a pecker checker ogling his tool.

Clear?

I've always felt annoyed when a guy enters the bathroom and uses the urinal right next to me, even though there are other urinals, further away, he could use. I have always considered this to be some type of "cruising." Maybe I'm paranoid, but to me, it's very annoying, and bad bathroom manners.

have you ever had to use a trough to pee in where a guy can litterally be rubbed up against you while your exposed? I honestly have always felt its like o well your men you're clearly all animals anyway so enjoy the nasty unclean restrooms and be happy we even allow you running water!

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Toddedyer
Joined:
Jun. 6, 2016 10:59 am
Quote al3:
Quote Ulysses:

The dynamic of crotch gazin' at urinals is simple and straightforward. If a guy's in there cruising, looking for male company, the guy being gazed will approve if he catches the other guy gazin' him.

If, however, a guy's not in there for any kind of meet and greet and he's minding his own business and peeing, after which he plans to leave alone, and he's not cruising, it's sometimes going to be a fightin' offense if he catches a pecker checker ogling his tool.

Clear?

I've always felt annoyed when a guy enters the bathroom and uses the urinal right next to me, even though there are other urinals, further away, he could use. I have always considered this to be some type of "cruising." Maybe I'm paranoid, but to me, it's very annoying, and bad bathroom manners.

I totally agree. Even if it's innocent, it's totally obtuse. It's the same thing as if you're the sole passenger on a public bus or subway car and some asshole comes in and sits right next to you. Freaks do abound in the world.

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Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote Toddedyer:
Quote al3:
Quote Ulysses:

The dynamic of crotch gazin' at urinals is simple and straightforward. If a guy's in there cruising, looking for male company, the guy being gazed will approve if he catches the other guy gazin' him.

If, however, a guy's not in there for any kind of meet and greet and he's minding his own business and peeing, after which he plans to leave alone, and he's not cruising, it's sometimes going to be a fightin' offense if he catches a pecker checker ogling his tool.

Clear?

I've always felt annoyed when a guy enters the bathroom and uses the urinal right next to me, even though there are other urinals, further away, he could use. I have always considered this to be some type of "cruising." Maybe I'm paranoid, but to me, it's very annoying, and bad bathroom manners.

have you ever had to use a trough to pee in where a guy can litterally be rubbed up against you while your exposed? I honestly have always felt its like o well your men you're clearly all animals anyway so enjoy the nasty unclean restrooms and be happy we even allow you running water!

I've always hated the troughs because, among other things, there's more backsplash with them than there is with urinals or peeing in toilets in those instances where there are no urinals. Luckily, troughs seem to be gradually phased out of existence. That's a good thing. I think there are still some on military bases, where nobody expects any privacy anyway.

A sailor and a Marine were peeing.

"Wash your hands when you're done," said the sailor.

"Why?" asked the Marine.

"Because you'll have pee on 'em," the sailor responded. "They teach us cleanliness in the Navy."

"Well," said the Marine, "in the Corps, they teach us not to pee on our hands."

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Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Quote Toddedyer: have you ever had to use a trough to pee in where a guy can litterally be rubbed up against you while your exposed? I honestly have always felt its like o well your men you're clearly all animals anyway so enjoy the nasty unclean restrooms and be happy we even allow you running water!

There ya go— yet another item to add to my "Reasons I'm so glad I don't have a penis" list. ;-)

Chaz Bono, though identifying as a man, isn’t sure s/he needs to get one:


Bono said that he has looked into either the simplest procedure that uses clitoral tissue to build a micro-penis or a full phalloplasty, where surgeons take skin from another part of the body and roll it to create a phallus that is attached to the groin.

"It's true, it's something he will consider at the appropriate time," Bono's publicist Howard Bragman told ABCNews.com. "But it's not something that is imminent and not something he believes will make him a man. He feels comfortable with his own masculinity."

"Gender is between your ears and not between your legs," said Bragman. "And he knows it's an imperfect surgery and that he will either get something small with some feeling or something normal that doesn't have any feeling."

And from the plastic surgeon: “Genital surgery is ‘less significant’ to most transgender people if hormones effectively change their appearance and "they are happy with the way they look,"

Then it's a superficial fashion thing, not really a biological imperative thing?

But where does all this identifying as a “man” come from? I do believe the clues can be seen in evidence provided by Bono’s reports of his childhood experiences as the “masculine” —read, "not hyper-feminine like Cher, his mother"— daughter of an icon of femininity:

...Bono said that as girl he loved to box and his hero was Sylvester Stallone. Though his father never lived to know that he was transgender...his glamorous mother had a difficult time accepting her masculine daughter.

"As far back as I can remember, my mother always seemed to want me to act more like a girl,"

..."I grew up in the '70s and '80s," he said. "We didn't know anything about this and my mom has her first child who's a girl and, you know, had the kind of expectations that any mother would have of their first-born daughter...she said things like, 'You look like a truck driver, you look like a slob'..." http://abcnews.go.com/Health/transgender-chaz-bono-seeks-penis-genital-surgery-risky/story?id=15299871

Poor thing, IMHO— couldn’t just be a normal, androgynous female, had to go hyper masculine to fit society’s, and Cher’s, binary gender imperative. And now s/he’s wondering why women aren’t attracted to “him.” Hello?

Btw, does everybody know what “binary gender” means?

I say let’s make the world safe for androgyny!

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Ruth Bader Ginsburg was asked about the gender make up of the court.

Q:"How many women should be on the SCOTUS?"

A: Justice Ginsburg: "Nine".

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douglaslee
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm
Quote douglaslee:

Ruth Bader Ginsburg was asked about the gender make up of the court.

Q:"How many women should be on the SCOTUS?"

A: Justice Ginsburg: "Nine".

She's a jewel of a human being, isn't she? :-)

Btw, I do believe it's important, for the sake of language and progress, not to confuse sex and gender, or try to make gender align with biological sex differences, respectively. In other words, one's gender does not have to match one's biological sex, if we're going to have freedom. The cultural rule —and transgender rule, btw— that says, "if one is female biologically, one's gender must be feminine;" "if male biologically, one's gender must look masculine," is a form of oppression. Or conversely, if a male is feminine by gender, that man or boy must self-identify as "female sex;" or if a female is masculine by gender, that girl or woman must self-identify as "male sex."

It is entirely possible to be a woman who looks masculine by gender, or a man who looks feminine by gender, without needing to self-identify as the opposite sex. We see such non-conformity all the time, and I find it outrageous that the culture insists on the binary model, so that people who don't conform biologically to culture's gender polarities must feel awful about themselves and suffer social ostracism, cruelty, and begin to wonder if they should have a sex change.

Thus, IMHO, the questioner was not asking RBG about the gender make-up of the Court; they were asking about the sex make-up of the Court, that is, unless they were asking whether the court should reflect a variety of masculine and feminine expressions in the way they walk, or talk, or dress or do their hair.

That brings me to this: the whole idea of "transgender" upholds the binary gender rule. It assumes that gender begins in alignment with sex —it's either masculine in a boy or feminine in a girl— and where it's not in alignment, it must identify with the opposite sex, thus, the trans. This is the result of a culture that insists on extremes of masculinity and femininity as the norm. You take your toddler to Toys R Us, and what message does the toddler get about who he or she may be?— if a boy, he's going to have to be attracted to the greens and browns of the boy's section; if a girl, she damn well better like pink. How long do you think it takes for a gentle, sensitive and creative boy to realize he doesn't fit with the rest of the boy stuff? And the same for a rough-n-tumble, active, dress-despising girl?

I don't know if you see what I mean, Doug, or if you agree. But you have to admit the subject is thought-provoking.

:-)

Zenzoe
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Now that the Human Genome project is complete, it's only a matter of time before sex, gender, and orientation genes are identified. Given the culturally flammable nature of discussions of those topics, who knows whether the scientific community will release its findings?

As DNA's secrets are identified, humanity will know whether gender identification, biological gender, and sexual orientation are genetically determined. If it turns out that they are, discrimination should all but disappear, because everybody knows that people people cannot make prenatal choices of their own genetic DNA blueprints. If, however, it's genetically proven that gender identification and sexual orientation are lifestyle choices, there will be the devil to pay, in the form of massive sociocultural upheavals.

Time -- and genetics -- will tell.

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Ulysses
Joined:
Jul. 31, 2007 4:01 pm

Here's what the feud and reconciliation between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson can teach us about civility

Thom plus logo Donald Trump did not invent the art of the political insult but he's inflamed the level of vitriolic public discourse and incivility to a new low unmatched by other presidents. In a tainted tradition that has permeated our history, other presidents have not been immune to dishing out acerbic insults against one another.
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