Thom outlined three steps today;

-Require all guns to be registered

-Require a permit to own a gun that is given after taking a gun safety class

-Require liability insurance to own a gun.

I challenge Thom to ask every elected official that comes on his show if they are willing to support this.

Comments

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 43 weeks 3 days ago
#1

None of the steps mentioned above will not stop any killings. So, what is the purpose of these steps?

K2

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 43 weeks 3 days ago
#2

I have an idea. Let's make murder illegal. That will stop the killings for sure.

K2

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 43 weeks 3 days ago
#3

Try this...

[QUOTE]

https://everytown.org/throwthemout/?source=etno_ETHomepage&utm_source=et_n_&utm_medium=_o&utm_campaign=ETHomepage&refcode=ETHomepage

We’ve had enough. Thoughts and prayers are not enough to honor the victims of gun violence. What we need now is ACTION. Lawmakers have had enough time to come around to common sense, and we’re done waiting. We must now elect leaders who will finally act to save lives from gun violence. It’s time to throw them out. Take action:

[UNQUOTE]

gumball's picture
gumball 43 weeks 2 days ago
#4
Quote Kilosqrd:

None of the steps mentioned above will not stop any killings. So, what is the purpose of these steps?

K2

What we often hear from politicians is the term "Common sense gun laws". How many times have you heard that phrase? How often do you hear specifics beyond that? I heard Thom bring up these specific laws and I think they would be greatly effective if they were even vaguely enforceable.

But the reason I am challenging him to ask elected officials is because of how many will outright dodge the question and go back to the common sense line. The reality is that the power of the NRA is not from their donations, it is from their ability to swing blue collar Democrat voters to Republican voters.

PatrickJH's picture
PatrickJH 43 weeks 2 days ago
#5

Based on the Public Trust Doctrine, a group of youngsters have a lawsuit in progress demanding that government take steps to protect their future; in particular to fight climate change.

Perhaps it is necessary for students to file a class action suit against governments (at various levels) in order to take steps to protect their lives from gun violence.

Traditionally, law suits have been an important way to force change in public policies.

Today's Republican Party is being paid to stonewall any changes to prevent gun violence. Tobacco was another case of government failure to act in the public interest. The opioid crisis is similar.

Gun violence is a "public health" crisis. We ought to make politicians personally liable, as well.

Theodoxus's picture
Theodoxus 43 weeks 2 days ago
#6

I don't think Thom's idea goes far enough.

Step 1) Repeal the 2nd Amendment (#RepealThe2ndAmendment) Step 2) Buy back all the now illegal weaponry at market price and/or tax credits. Step 3) Write a new amendment that allows gun ownership under three organizations: membership with the armed forces; sanctioned police or peacekeeper organization; membership in the National Guard. Step 4) Allow citizen able to purchase membership in sanctioned shooting ranges owned and operated by one of the three organizations outlined in Step 3. Step 5) Allow citizens to own bolt action rifles (and after Thom's comment in the first hour, revolver type pistols) as long as they are registered and licensed, for use in hunting. Step 6) Any criminal activity propagated with a firearm is automatically considered a capital crime.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 43 weeks 2 days ago
#7

These sites might be instructive:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/?utm_term=.a3a3dbf2f772

Have your representatives in Congress received donations from the NRA?

Since 1998, the National Rifle Association has donated at least $4.1 million to current members of Congress. Explore below to see how much money has been donated to members of Congress in your state.

By Aaron Williams

Updated Feb. 15, 2018

And here:

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000000082&type=&sort=&cycle=2016

Money to congressional candidates: 2016 Cycle

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 43 weeks 2 days ago
#8

Reply to #6

Go ahead and try it. I doubt that even New York and/or California would vote to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

You are not grounded in reality. Grow up.

K2

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 43 weeks 2 days ago
#9

Reply to #5

Gun violence is NOT a public health crisis, no matter how loud or how many times you shout it. There are over 300 million firearms in private possesion by some 150 million Americans. There are some 33,000 firearm related deaths in the U.S. per year. Two thirds of those are suicides. Of the 11,000 remaining deaths involving firearms, we can break them down into different catagories such as murder, justifiable homicides, and accidents, etc. Looking at the catagory of murder, there are some 6000-7000 murders each year involving firearms as the murder weapon. When compared to the number of total firearms owned by the number of Americans, the percentages of gun violence (murder by gun) is negligible.

One more thing. Much noise is being made about the CDC and the study of gun violence. The truth is that when the CDC did study gun violence years ago, the CDC ended up using tax payer dollars to campaign against the U.S. Constitution, specifically the 2nd Amendment. Moreover, the CDC did it in the open where all could see what they were doing. That's why they no longer get funds to study "gun violence". The CDC is required to be apolitical. The CDC pissed in their own porrage.

K2

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 43 weeks 2 days ago
#10

I do not listen to Thom's show following one of these tragic events. He knows absolutely nothing about firearms yet he pumps out one lie after another and it appears the vast bulk of his bullshit comes from one of the many Michael Bloomberg's propaganda outlets such as "everytown for gun safety" or "moms demand action". One prime example is the false claim that there have been 18 school shootings since Jan1, 2018. This was an example of the first "school shooting" listed by Everytown. A man was parked in front of an elementary school and called the police and said he had a gun. The police responded but the individual had already shot himself. The school had been closed for seven months. Everytown was forced to retract this, which is one of dozens of "facts" they distort to promote their cause.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.0c96b060ca07

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/30/michael-bloomberg-backed-gun-group-forced-to-retra/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/heres-how-everytowns-disputed-report-of-18-school-shootings-breaks-down.html

Claim , the latest Florida shooter was a "white supremacist" debunked but will remain on the lips of lying leftie/socialist radio bobbleheads forever.

"Local law enforcement: No ties between militia and Florida high school shooter"

Claim, the FBI investigated Cruz but found he did nothing wrong.

Actually, the FBI f**ked up here and could possibly have prevented this from happening.

If Thom Hartmann wanted to really get to the truth to his audience, it is easy to find a solid dozen or so pro-gun fact gathers that will use FBI, Department of Health, DEA, and a half dozen other government backed studies that would destroy Thoms arguments in one good half hour segment even if Thom continued to talk over them. If you Thom are in question as to who to call, you have my e-mail address, contact me and I will be happy to assist you and have one ready to come on your show in person so there can be no "accidental phone problems" or "I have to 10 seconds to the break" causing your opponent go unheard.

I really don't expect better as leftie/socialists have their agenda which now has become 180° from mine so if you are looking for real facts on gun, financial, or for that matter any other issues, one should turn off the radio and do a little research on Al Gores internet. That will enlighten you far more than any right or left wing media fools.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 43 weeks 1 day ago
#11

My comment to another post, suggested changes to the political system:

1. Contributions to members or aspiring members of congress may not be directed to particular candidates or incumbents but must be given to the party without reference to individuals.

2. Term limits. Two terms in Congress and done. Two in the House and done, two in the Senate and done or one term in each and done.

3. The best option, but realistically the most unlikely, would require both senate and house members to be selected by lottery, not by election.

4. Scrap the bicameral system. One chamber.

Any hope that any of these ideas will take root? No. Not given, as is the case, a dumb, passive, gimme public.

More on guns...

[QUOTE]

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/02/17/the-only-way-to-prevent-gun-violence-is-to-reduce-the-number-of-guns/

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

by David Atkins February 17, 2018

And every time the bottom line is and remains the same: if you want to end gun violence, reduce the number of guns. It’s that simple. There is no other answer. The simple reason is that the only difference between America and other industrialized nations on the issues so often blamed for gun violence is access to guns.

******

There is only one common denominator: the guns. There is no cultural solution to this problem. There is no funding solution to this problem. There is no other, easy way out.

Either we reduce access to guns (and particularly to semi-automatic rifles), or we are going to see this again. And again. And again. And again.

But if we must continue to endure the killings, at least let’s stop going through the cycle of the same garbage arguments. Let’s just concede that we are choosing to place the right of people to own weapons of death, over the lives of thousands–including schoolchildren.

David Atkins

David Atkins is a writer, activist and research professional living in Santa Barbara. He is a contributor to the Washington Monthly's Political Animal and president of The Pollux Group, a qualitative research firm.

[UNQUOTE]

DdC's picture
DdC 43 weeks 1 day ago
#12

"All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those towards whom it is directed will understand it. Therefore, the intellectual level of the propaganda must be lower the larger the number of people who are to be influenced by it."

"Through clever and constant application of propaganda,people can be made to see paradise as hell,and also the other way around,to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.
"From Benito Mussolini,"London Sunday Express," December 8, 1935

Why Almost All Rural Whites are In Poverty
https://youtu.be/nLHouCKt7Ps

The Face Of Poverty In America

Money worries can lower IQ, study suggests

Trump’s Food Stamp Idea Is Like Blue Apron Had a Socialist Hangover

From a SNAP recipient to Trump: Food box is a "terrible idea"

https://pics.me.me/that-look-when-trump-rednecks-realize-they-always-had...

rs allen 43 weeks 1 day ago
#13

I disagree reducing the number of guns is any kind of resolution for what ails this culture Albero. As it stands 'america' will never give up personal weapon ownership. The problems (the illness) in this country's pyche goes much deeper than the mere access to or the ownership of guns. They hold so tight to their fire arms because they're afraid, why they don't exactly know but they do know there's something to be afraid of.......it's just a nagging itch they can't quite get to. So buy a gun.

Well, how did we get here? My humble submission to that admitly complex question of that particular ethos is that the fear is grounded deep within america's soul, really unthought of so therefore always out of reach but always there none the less. Consider; from the first landing on these eastern shores untill today this culture has done nothing but lie, murder, steal land and resources all across the globe now spanning some three hundred years past. From the beginning they have done nothing but subjugated whole peoples not only the indigenous but imported 'others' to build this ahem 'great nation' and alienated those same others in isolation ever since. In this american name and benefit they stood idlely by while whole countries and continents were up ended because they needed this that or the other, and who cared? They can buy xyz for cheap! Keep it coming, then cry we need even more!

And now somewhere deep within it's collective soul they know the bill is due and fear the total sum expecting perhaps someone may exact a just return for all the favors this nation has showered on the world.

Yeh grab that gun, be afraid. Be very afraid america.....you have real reason to be.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 43 weeks 23 hours ago
#14

Your response, rs allen, does not indicate familarity with the most elemental details of recent mass shootings, particularly Parkland and Las Vegas, nor sympathy for the families and friends of those killed. Take your comments to Parkland, discuss them with some of the students who survived, with the mothers of those who were killed.

At the very least it should be obvious to decent, caring people that there is no sane, rational justification for the sale of AR-15 style weapons nor bump stocks on the open market.

Read some of this:

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

If that isn't enoough, do an Internet search. Type in AR15, nothing more. Read a few of the ads and comments. Sick.

Or do a search typing in this: bump stocks for sale

Or congress at work:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/11/16743108/house-republ...

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 43 weeks 21 hours ago
#15

Don't forget to also read this,

summary,

FBI = inefective

Grandmother = smart and very effective

“The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday.

A person close to Cruz contacted the FBI on January 5 to report concerns about him, the FBI said in a statement Friday. But the bureau did not appropriately follow established protocols in following up on the tip.

"The information was not provided to the Miami Field Office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time," the statement said.

The stunning admission -- which prompted Florida Gov. Rick Scott to call on FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign -- is sure to raise further questions about whether the FBI could have prevented the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, which left 17 dead.”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/parkland-shooting-fbi-tipster/in...

And then of course this stunner,

“Grandmother foils alleged school shooting plot in Washington State”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/15/grandmother-fo...

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 43 weeks 14 hours ago
#16

Thanks, DR. I read the "Grandmother foils..." report that led me directly to this:

[QUOTE]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/14/ar-15-mass-shootin...

Why the AR-15 keeps appearing at America's deadliest mass shootings , USA TODAYPublished 10:35 p.m. ET Feb. 14, 2018 | Updated 6:59 p.m. ET Feb. 15, 2018

[UNQUOTE]

Ban all AR-15 style assault rifles, now.

If the 2nd Amendment can't be circumvented then how about a ban on the distribution, sale and/or possession of any and all ammunition that could be used in these assault rifles plus severe penalties for modification of the rifles to accommodate other permitted ammunition?

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 6 days ago
#17
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

Yet over the last 25 years we have seen a MASSIVE decrease in gun violence, and a large increase in the number of guns. Why?

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 6 days ago
#18
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

Ban all AR-15 style assault rifles, now.

At columbine, the guns used were shotguns and handguns.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 6 days ago
#19
Quote gumball:

[quote=Alberto Ceras 2]

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

That was not my quote, gumball. It was from David Atkins (for whom I have great respect) as I made clear in my comment. Here again:

[QUOTE]

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/02/17/the-only-way-to-prevent-gun-violence-is-to-reduce-the-number-of-guns/

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

by David Atkins February 17, 2018

[UNQUOTE]

While I do agree with Mr. Atkins that reducing the number of guns, in particular AR-15 type weapons, is most important there are, in addition, other measures that need to be explored and implemented.

I am most concerned with mass killings and how they might be prevented. If wider ownership and easier access to firearms, as gumball and others seem to favor, would prevent or reduce these horrible events, fine, but I don't believe that's the case. Mother Jones provides verifiable data on these horrible incidents. Where there have been large numbers of fatalities automatic or semi automatic weapons, for the most part similar to AR-15's, have been used. For the first reference below it's necessary to scroll to the right for all the information:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0

Mother Jones' Investigation: US Mass Shootings, 1982-2018

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Tommy2hi's picture
Tommy2hi 42 weeks 6 days ago
#20

I hunt and own 2 guns for hunting but I never will own an assult rifle. I have 30 30 winchester and black pwder pistol. Plus It isnt just the weapons ,it is also the ammunition that fractures into little pieces on contact. What use to just enter and then exit these bullets are made to tear through the body. Im tired of debating about the 2nd admendment. These people who love their assult rifles believe that any day we could go through a "RED DAWN" where Russia is going to storm into our country. This is total disspespect for our military for it will be impossible for any country to take over America with their military. I dont know what reaaly could end these killings .. Now there are cops out there that are corrupted , selling guns and drugs on the street. I wonder how do we stop this from happening. All I know if we had health care for everyone we could get physcoligical help to the kids before they get old enough to kill. Able to find the ones that need help. We will never stop murders but we can slow it donw. About these assult rifles .. I ask, how many people have to die in a mass before it is called a weapon of mass distruction? or how many people have to be terroized before the person is called a terroist?If anyone wants to own these weapons they need to jump through hoops to do so. Have a monthly reord of your ownership of it.Report how many rounds you shoot and have to go through testing that you can prove that you are a responsible gun owner.. maybe 2 or 3 times a year of such a test.

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 6 days ago
#21
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

[quote=gumball]

[quote=Alberto Ceras 2]

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

That was not my quote, gumball. It was from David Atkins (for whom I have great respect) as I made clear in my comment. Here again:

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/02/17/the-only-way-to-prevent-gun-violence-is-to-reduce-the-number-of-guns/

The Only Way To Prevent Gun Violence Is To Reduce the Number of Guns

by David Atkins February 17, 2018

[UNQUOTE]

While I do agree with Mr. Atkins that reducing the number of guns, in particular AR-15 type weapons, is most important there are, in addition, other measures that need to be explored and implemented.

I am most concerned with mass killings and how they might be prevented. If wider ownership and easier access to firearms, as gumball and others seem to favor, would prevent or reduce these horrible events, fine, but I don't believe that's the case. Mother Jones provides verifiable data on these horrible incidents. Where there have been large numbers of fatalities automatic or semi automatic weapons, for the most part similar to AR-15's, have been used. For the first reference below it's necessary to scroll to the right for all the information:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0

Mother Jones' Investigation: US Mass Shootings, 1982-2018

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

How do you explain the massive decrease in gun violence in the same time frame we had a massive increase in the number of guns?

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 6 days ago
#22

Thank you, Tommy2hi, for your thoughtful and most reasonable comment. Let's hope that it gets a good many readers and that its good sense sinks in, especially into the minds of those who advocate ownership of AR-15 style or similar automatic weapons.

rs allen 42 weeks 6 days ago
#23

Well alberto I don't know what exactly to say in response but WTF!

I (admitly ineptly) try to open up the conversation towards much deeper issues and you want to dump on me some garabage about what I know and don't know of what this or that weapon is worth in a close order drill. Well WTF!

Then you attempt to lay on me a lack of empathy because I didn't explicitly advocate (for say) the banning of xyz weapon. Well WTF!

Fine, have it your way. But good luck in arguing your small bore case as any kind of cure for what is the pathos of the 'good old the u.s. of a'.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 6 days ago
#24

Yes, rs allen, the u.S. has been and continues to be guilty of many crimes leading to or abetting the brutal slaughter of millions upon millions of people.

One thing at a time.

Right now the real and potential death and injury of young school children urgently needs addressing. A ban on the sale and possession of AR-15 style weapons might, almost certainly would, reduce the risk to those young people.

Worth noting:

Study: States with more gun laws have less gun violence

States with more gun laws ... across the country and increase federal funding to research on gunlaws ... in preventing firearms deaths ...

www.usatoday.com" ">https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/07/gun-violence...

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced ...

Reforms still having positive effect 20 years on, as landmark study shows accelerated reduction inrates of suicide and homicide deaths caused by firearms

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/australias-gun-laws-sto...

Click on the first site I've given below, examine Mother Jones' spread sheet, scroll over to column N that identifies the weapons of choice in these mass killings. A total ban on any and all of the semi automatic weapons similar to those used in these slaughters would almost certainly prevent further tragedies such as Las Vegas and Parkland.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XV4mZi3gYDgwx5PrLwqqHTUlHkwkV-6uy_yeJh3X46o/edit#gid=0

Mother Jones' Investigation: US Mass Shootings, 1982-2018

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 5 days ago
#25
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

Right now the real and potential death and injury of young school children urgently needs addressing. A ban on the sale and possession of AR-15 style weapons might, almost certainly would, reduce the risk to those young people.

Columbine was done with shotguns and handguns. Virginia Tech was done by handguns. It is not as if the AR-15 itself drove the shooters to do their crime.

Dianereynolds's picture
Dianereynolds 42 weeks 5 days ago
#26

The AR 15 has been around for over 50 years. Semi automatic firearms have been around since the late 1890's. The availability of guns has tightened over the last century and you can no longer buy one at a hardware store or order one through the Sears catalog and kids can no longer bring them to school and store them in their lockers as they once did.

So what has changed that drives these kids to do what they do?

Violent graphic electronic games, social media putting pressure on some specific less popular groups, ultra violent Hollywood movies, free dispensing of psychotropic drugs, and lack of parents getting involved in their kids lives.

Think about that for awhile.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 5 days ago
#27
Quote gumball:
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:

Right now the real and potential death and injury of young school children urgently needs addressing. A ban on the sale and possession of AR-15 style weapons might, almost certainly would, reduce the risk to those young people.

Columbine was done with shotguns and handguns. Virginia Tech was done by handguns. It is not as if the AR-15 itself drove the shooters to do their crime.

A ban on AR-15 style weapons might reasonably include a ban on semi-automatic handguns such as were used in the Columbine and Virginia Tech killings.

Columbine Klebold was equipped with a 9×19mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. Klebold primarily fired the TEC-9 handgun for a total of 55 times.

Virginia Tech Cho used two firearms during the attacks: a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun.

[QUOTE]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/australias-gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-and-reduced-homicides-study-finds

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Reforms still having positive effect 20 years on, as landmark study shows accelerated reduction in rates of suicide and homicide deaths caused by firearms

He said the researchers had chosen to publish the results in an American medical journal not just because the title was a prestigious one, but also because the findings would have a greater impact.

However, he does not believe the findings will have an impact on gun ownership laws in the US.

“The US is a good example of where evidence is going to take longer to prevail over fear and ideology,” he said.

“When people like [Republican candidate] Donald Trump talk about gun violence, he’s essentially not talking about the facts or the evidence, he’s talking about ideology and saying people want the right to protect themselves and their homes.

“The irony is the person you have to protect yourself most from in a home is the person who owns the gun.”

Chapman said more than half of those who had conducted mass shootings in Australia and New Zealand had been licensed gun holders.

A co-author of the paper, Associate Professor Philip Alpers, who is also the founding director of GunPolicy.org, said it was “amazing” that the reforms were still having a positive effect 20 years after they were first introduced.

“When these laws came in the hope was they would curb mass shooting, but what we didn’t realise was the laws would be followed by huge changes in other types of shootings, particularly in suicide,” he said.

“The breadth of the change was unexpected. But in America, things will get worse before they get better. In Australia we had a government that was prepared to act, and what [the then prime minister] John Howard did amounted to the confiscation of private property.

“You just can’t imagine the US ever seeing that as feasible.”

[UNQUOTE]

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 4 days ago
#28

A ban, as in confiscation? There are 10s of millions of such guns in circulation.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 4 days ago
#29

Decent people, doing the right thing.

https://sputniknews.com/viral/201802211061866578-americans-smashing-guns/

Farewell to Arms: WATCH Epic Videos of Americans Smashing Guns

https://twitter.com/hashtag/oneless?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsputniknews.com%2Fviral%2F201802211061866578-americans-smashing-guns%2F

Yes, the surviving students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida have shown determination, courage and compassion as they act to demand an end to such tragedies.

But where were the students of that school following Sandy Hook? Where are the students of the next school to be targeted? Why weren’t they and why aren’t they, and why aren’t their parents, demanding action to prevent future student massacres? Why wait until it’s too late? Some students at other schools are taking action. Why not all students, in each and every school in the entire country?

This week’s Take Action Now newsletter offers ways to support this inspiring organizing. You can click here to read about the actions you can take—they range from donating to showing up for a protest to registering your friends to vote—then share the post with your friends on Facebook and Twitter.

The students from Stoneman Douglas are determined to use their newfound platform to create change. “We are going to be the kids you read about in textbooks,” student Emma González said in a speech this weekend. “Not because we're going to be another statistic about mass shooting in America, but because...we are going to be the last mass shooting.”

Click here to read more about what you can do to join them in ending gun violence in America, then share the actions on Facebook and Twitter.

lynnandrob's picture
lynnandrob 42 weeks 4 days ago
#30

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-father-writes-open-letter-after-parkland-massacre-i-was-n849726

Check out this article. My mother worked at this school during this period and I am so glad he did not have access to firearms. My world would have been devestated. My heart goes out to the victims and families. #neveragain

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 42 weeks 4 days ago
#31

The next school shooter is already out there and already has the weapons to carry out a horrific attack. Can anyone answer this question? What can we do to stop it?

K2

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 3 days ago
#32
Quote Kilosqrd:

The next school shooter is already out there and already has the weapons to carry out a horrific attack. Can anyone answer this question? What can we do to stop it?

K2

How do you stop a drunken driver from causing a fatal accident?

See my post 29. Join with others who are fighting, lobbying to get assault style weapons off the market, off the streets. Do not vote for any politician who accepts NRA's blood soaked dollars.

If you are - if you were - sincere, Kilosqrd, you wouldn't ask this question. You would instead tell us what you are doing that might help to prevent such tragedies.

More sites you and others might visit:

https://www.facebook.com/NeverAgainMSD/

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/neveragain?source=feed_text&story_id=189898971613235

This first site below thanks to lynnandrob (#30 above):

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-father-writes-open-letter-after-parkland-massacre-i-was-n849726

[QUOTE]

Colorado father writes open letter after Parkland massacre: ‘I was almost a school shooter’

by DANIELLA SILVA

Following the massacre of 17 students and teachers at a Florida high school last week, a Colorado father of four wrote an open letter Tuesday claiming that the only thing that stopped him from carrying out his own bloodbath 30 years ago was his inability to get a gun.

[UNQUOTE]

Politicians beholden to NRA:

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/video/contrasting-lawmaker-reaction-to-the-florida-shooting-with-nra-contributions-1162758723834

rs allen 42 weeks 3 days ago
#33

So much for keeping it small bore hey alberto.

You've gone from something one could call a reasonably sensible step like say renewing the ban of military grade weapons to keep them off the street (as much as possible) to now advocating for the banning of all semi-auto weapons and then implying no weaponry belongs in the hands of civilians. Uh huh, way to keep it small bore alberto.

And here's the cognitive dissonance I hear coming from the Parkland community and even from the high schoolers themselves now speaking out: how many of those same Parkland residents and Douglas high parents have those exact types of guns in their homes? A fair number I'd wager. And the number of them that are willing to scrap them? I'd make a separate wager at that number and they approach zilch, if they do anything at all they'll resell them to god knows who ends up with them but those weapons won't be scrapped because money means more than anything else.....as long as the anything else is not in my back yard.

You want to start doing something about the carnage both within and from out this country is and represents? You're better served to start at culture.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 3 days ago
#34
Quote rs allen: and then implying no weaponry belongs in the hands of civilians.

That is not true.

For those interested in sensible, thoughtful opinions (rather than false ïmplyings, "I'd wager" and such) today's CounterPunch offers some fine, reasoned and reasonable essays, not all directly related to Parkland:

https://www.counterpunch.org/

For instance, from one of those essays:

"...it was the 18th gun-related incident at an American school since the beginning of 2018."

gumball's picture
gumball 42 weeks 3 days ago
#35
Quote Alberto Ceras 2:
Quote rs allen: and then implying no weaponry belongs in the hands of civilians.

That is not true.

For those interested in sensible, thoughtful opinions (rather than false ïmplyings, "I'd wager" and such) today's CounterPunch offers some fine, reasoned and reasonable essays, not all directly related to Parkland:

https://www.counterpunch.org/

For instance, from one of those essays:

"...it was the 18th gun-related incident at an American school since the beginning of 2018."

What would you do with all the millions of semi-automatic guns in circulation that you want to outlaw? What do you do with the folks who will refuse to turn them in?

rs allen 42 weeks 3 days ago
#36

Well alberto I don't know how else to catorize it when you start touting Australian laws as some kind of realistic solution for the usa. You want to say I'm lying, fine. But I can guarantee that is what the gun owners heard in that shout out for Australian gun laws was pretty much what I said you IMPLIED.

And if you think my offer of wagers is so ill thought out or unreasoned then put your money where your mouth is.

I haven't gotten to Counterpunch yet this morning, but I will in my own time.

jaxt3er's picture
jaxt3er 42 weeks 3 days ago
#37

Popular Mechanics Magazine- info on CAR 15 the idea was that like a regular bullet travels in a line trajectory ,The CAR15 bullet begins to tumble the moment it leaves the barrel .this is what makes this rifle such a lethal weapon.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22ar15%22

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 3 days ago
#38

rs allen, I can’t understand why you have stooped to personal attacks when the topic and discussion here concerns the terrible deaths of young innocents.

I don’t want to, and I hope I don’t ever, hear of another school slaughter and that is my present concern. In some way, however small it might be, I want to help to prevent similar tragedies.

rs allen 42 weeks 3 days ago
#39

And somehow you JUST ASSUME that I or anyone else here don't have any experience of weapons of killing or of war? You'd be well advised to come down off that high horse you've placed yourself upon.

And stop playing the innocent, how long did you think I was going to let you get away with all those cute little condenscending asides?

I've said my piece already about what would be, what could be a doable step in getting a handle on weapons.......stop offering and selling military grade weaponry to the general population. Beyond that anything else are but pipe dreams without starting at the root cause/s for america's gun fetish and the attendent magical thinking that goes with owning them.

ListenerLeslie 42 weeks 3 days ago
#40

Framing an issue is important. Using words with special connotations can provide a new perspective and start a movement. The 2nd amendment was written when there were no automatic weapons like we have now. My suggestion is to always refer to the 2nd Amendment for the right to have arms as the "MUSKET AMENDMENT" and spread the new label to as many people, broadcasters, online and print media, social media outlets and lawmakers and candidates as possible. I think that puts it in historical and intended perspective. Heck, if this comment is #40 down so far, I fear no one will read it. Does Thom Hartmann or his staff ever read these comments? I agree with Thom's 3 conditions for owning a weapon that shoots bullets.

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 42 weeks 3 days ago
#41

Reply to #32

"See my post 29. Join with others who are fighting, lobbying to get assault style weapons off the market, off the streets."

That's what you plan to do to stop the next mass shooting? Offer links to "The Nation" website? A website spewing left wing tripe that has next to zero credibility. Sheesh! EPIC FAIL

K2

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 42 weeks 2 days ago
#42
Quote ListenerLeslie:

Framing an issue is important. Using words with special connotations can provide a new perspective and start a movement. The 2nd amendment was written when there were no automatic weapons like we have now. My suggestion is to always refer to the 2nd Amendment for the right to have arms as the "MUSKET AMENDMENT" and spread the new label to as many people, broadcasters, online and print media, social media outlets and lawmakers and candidates as possible. I think that puts it in historical and intended perspective. Heck, if this comment is #40 down so far, I fear no one will read it. Does Thom Hartmann or his staff ever read these comments? I agree with Thom's 3 conditions for owning a weapon that shoots bullets.

Great idea, Leslie, the "Musket Amendment." But it shouldn't stop there. The entire constitution needs a major overhaul or, better yet, to be ripped up and a new one put in its place that would, along with other critical changes, establish term limits for members of congress. Do these congressional beggars represent their constituents or their campaign contributors (i.e., NRA}?

rs allen 42 weeks 1 day ago
#43

2# dope squared, no one can stop 'the next one', whatever you may consider the 'next one' to be.

Here's the first school mass killing field I can recall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting

Go ahead read it through tell me if you find any similarities and note the dating.

rs allen 42 weeks 1 day ago
#44

If the framing or the phrasing an arguement is important then assigning the term 'assault weapons (or guns)' as a general cover term for military grade weapons only works for and at the rational mental level. While at the more intuitive guttural level that underlies all human experiences first and before the rational mental processing takes place the phrasing of an 'assault weapons ban' hears (or rather feels) the threat in the loss of guns, period. That's because at that first responsive guttural level everyone knows that every single 'gun' no matter it's intended end use is an ASSAULT WEAPON. That is any guns singlar propose in design and function......all of them from ram rod black powder muskets to air driven bb and pellet guns to rim fire .22 to the M16 to 16 inch canons then take your pick of anything inbetween they are all assault weapons. That is their design and function and all of them do their job marvelously to the limits they have in the technology inherent to their design. BUT, I iterate they are all assault weapons, because that is their designed and intended propose in existing. And everyone knows this at some level wheather a gun owner or not.

So to get back to the framing for some kind of gun control for a nation already awash in weapons it may be useful to start in the phrasing for just what it is one wants off the street as a small doable step........use 'military grade weapons' instead of the nebulous term of assault weapon. (AND to be clear THAT DOES INCLUDE banning the sell of MILITARY AMMO OF ANY CAL.) So make that step much clearer in intent, it is the weapons for an active battle field that is wanted off the street and away from the casual whims of just a who ever wishes to get their hands on a weapon explicitly of and for war.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 41 weeks 6 days ago
#45

How lucky you are!!! The bold face is mine...

[QUOTE]

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/26/the-second-amendment/

FEBRUARY 26, 2018

The Second Amendment

by DAVID STANSFIELD

…as you often point out, “Weapons are life savers.” To confirm this, we need only take a look at the totally specious opposing statistics put out by the World Health Organization and the American Journal of Medicine: “The US accounts for 82% of all gun deaths across the developed world, 90% of all women killed, and 92% of young people between ages 15 and 24 who are shot by guns. Not to mention the mass shootings that take place every day in America, killing some 36,000 of our citizens per annum.”

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same old horse feathers we’ve come to expect from tree-hugging, bleeding-heart socialists in Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, Chile, Denmark, the Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, the Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United Kingdom, who have almost no guns at all.

Finally, apart from their indispensable role in saving us from rape, robbery, murder and mayhem, guns are also indispensable when we go hunting, not because we are hungry, but simply because like all red-blooded Americans we enjoy killing defenseless animals.

Yes, indeed, all you Second Amendment lovers are right on target, and thanks to you and your more than 300 million guns, we Americans are surely the wisest, luckiest and safest people in the world!

[UNQUOTE]

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The Thom Hartmann Program - Aug 30th 2018

It seems it's all racism, all the time w/the GOP...Neo-Nazi robocall hits Iowa on Molly Tibbett’s murder: “KILL THEM ALL. ” Richard Wolff drops by about the National Debt. Is it a disaster or an OK thing? Also - Trump & The National Enquirer - Is the Economy Here To Serve Us Or Are We Here to Serve the economy?