How is it that the climate deniers can reject the labors of all those scientists and still place total confidence in the Bible which tells us that the earth was built in 7 days, is only 10,000 years old and according to predictions which are multiple thousands of years wrong, still place full faith in it? Perhaps they will get their prediction of planetary demise with their election of Trump. kww

Comments

Coalage3 22 weeks 5 days ago
#1

Why do you think that all climate deniers are "Bible" thumpers? I know many climate change believers who are anti-science. Some post here on this forum nearly every day, and they think they are progressives. Imagine that...

zapdam's picture
zapdam 22 weeks 5 days ago
#2

Keith, ignore Coalage3 as his name implies he's stuck in the past. Another Looney Trump supporter, thinking he's a revolutionary, when reality he's just a stooge being used by people infinitely smarter than he is.

Coalage3 22 weeks 5 days ago
#3

Your funny Zap, considering you are anti-science.

leontrollski's picture
leontrollski 22 weeks 5 days ago
#4

"How is it that the climate deniers can reject the labors of all those scientists and still place total confidence in the Bible which tells us that the earth was built in 7 days, is only 10,000 years old and according to predictions which are multiple thousands of years wrong, still place full faith in it?" They are firm believers in majority rule: 10 million hicks outnumber 10 thousand scientists. It,s simple math, the only kind that the climate change deniers are capable of.

Coalage3 22 weeks 5 days ago
#5

Why should they believe the so-called science advocates when it only pertains to climate change? How come progressives don't agree with the science when it comes to GMO foods? Transgenderism?

c-gull's picture
c-gull 22 weeks 4 days ago
#6

They believe in only what they only believe in. They do not really have faith in spirit; they do not know spiritual energy and they seem to want to please the hierarchical order at all cost. And right now it is costing us the health of the entire planet.

At the council of Nicea, Jesus was formally made into a "holy" myth. The ruler Constantine was pleased because this would train his "Christian" subjects to obey the hierarchy. The ruled can then live inside their mythology to ease the pain of being slaves.

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 22 weeks 4 days ago
#7

Does it really matter what anyone believes about AGW? The fact is that human beings will be extracting fossil fuels from the earth for many generations to come. Climate change alarmists are oblivious to that fact. I suggest you get used to it.

K2

Coalage3 22 weeks 4 days ago
#8

Progressives support "science" when they think it supports their political agenda. Otherwise, not so much.

leontrollski's picture
leontrollski 22 weeks 3 days ago
#9

"Progressives support "science" when they think it supports their political agenda. Otherwise, not so much." Rather sounds liike a Republican looking in a mirror and mistaking the reflection for someone else. Climate change bad, GMO good, Really?

Coalage3 22 weeks 3 days ago
#10

If you support the science for climate change, then you should support the science for GMO foods. But I bet you don't because you are an inconsistent progressive liberal fascist. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that says there is anything wrong with GMO foods. So my claim of "Progressives support "science" when they think it supports their political agenda. Otherwise, not so much."...just rings truer all the time. You just proved my point...thanks for the support.

rs allen 22 weeks 3 days ago
#11

It was a sin to eat fruit from the tree of knowledge. See, it says so right here in this here big book.

Yep true to form dirty coal is determined to prove he has not sinned.

Go ahead dirty coal tell us WHY gmo's are so continuous an issue. What are the so called superfluous reasons given for why they're a bad deal around.

Coalage3 22 weeks 3 days ago
#12

What in the heck are you talking about? I didn't make them an issue. But you democrats did by saying that you are the party of science when clearly you are not. Your non-support of GMO foods proves that.

rs allen 22 weeks 3 days ago
#13

Then explain to us why what 'us non-science followers' find so obnoxious should not be so.

Ya see dirty coal I'll bet you don't even know the reasons given for being anti gmo.

DrJ's picture
DrJ 22 weeks 2 days ago
#14

To answer your question, climate change denial seems to be a creature of politics. Republican politicians, since Citizens United, get lots of money from corporations who themselves save money by avoiding the necessary steps to prevent CO2 pollution. Additionally, claiming to adhere to your constituency's major religious beliefs, especially in the Bible Belt, helps you get re-elected. Many in the Bible Belt and elsewhere seem to fear science and prefer a simplistic, literal interpretation of the holy scripture which they prize above all else, even their own economic and environmental interests. As Jake Tapper pointed out on the recent Bill Maher show, as soon as Citizen's United was decided, the Republicans in Congress quickly abandoned all of their climate change bills.

leontrollski's picture
leontrollski 22 weeks 2 days ago
#15

Of course if you support the scienctific consensus on GMO foods to be consistent you must also support the scientific consensus on Global Warming.

rs allen 22 weeks 1 day ago
#16

Dirty coal you've had almost 48 hours to figure out why science believers do not support GMO's, So what say you?

Or are you still afraid of trespassing on an imagined original sin mentioned in a big book of parables that was written some 2,000 odd years ago?

Roland de Brabant's picture
Roland de Brabant 22 weeks 1 day ago
#17
Quote Kilosqrd:Does it really matter what anyone believes about AGW? The fact is that human beings will be extracting fossil fuels from the earth for many generations to come. Climate change alarmists are oblivious to that fact. I suggest you get used to it.

K2

The fact is that if fossil fuels keep being burned there will not be many more generations of humans, dummy.

Roland-

Roland de Brabant's picture
Roland de Brabant 22 weeks 1 day ago
#18

Keith, at least their rantings about global warming distract them from ranting about evolution. And how the UN is trying to enslave us. Remember the good old days when they were so certain that the earth would end May 21, 2010? Sure wish I had an auto paint shop on the twenty-second. And remember the better old days before Millhous called forth his "silent majority" when the mentally challenged had enough shame to keep quiet?

Roland

Coalage3 22 weeks 14 hours ago
#19

RS - I have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you do a better job of explaining yourself? Or why don't you tell us why you don't support GMO foods since you are obviously part of that crowd? I'm not the one who has a problem with GMO foods.

rs allen 22 weeks 5 hours ago
#20

No dirty coal, don't try to deflect with weather I'm pro or anti-gmo. Because I haven't said what I am one way or the other. YOU are the one that put the accusation out there that anti-gmo was unscientific. I only gave you the chance to prove that you're making that kind of statement from a position of knowledge.

So far just as expected you are failing.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 6 days ago
#21

(leontrollsky - #4)
"They are firm believers in majority rule: 10 million hicks outnumber 10 thousand scientists. It,s simple math, the only kind that the climate change deniers are capable of."

There's a lot of truth in that ... when you refer to "hicks", are you ridiculing country folk who cling to forest and field, resisting absorption into the urban core, or do you simply mean folks who prefer to feel their way in blind faith, loyally serving their masters without question or compromise?

Don't we all do that, one way or another - only, clearly, we serve different masters?

I call it shovel-headed thinking. I'm not sure it's any better or worse by itself than scalpel - or thumb-headed - thinking. I guess it takes all kinds.

(sea-gull - #6)


"They believe in only what they only believe in ... They do not really have faith in spirit; they do not know spiritual energy ..."

Isn't that true for all of us, even those who believe in nothing?

Isn't it more a question of devotion to different value systems - that the experience of spiritual energies and associated beliefs/traditions vary widely, across the cultural spectrum?

In this world of too few hammers and sooo many nails ... I think this one hits it on the head:


"... they seem to want to please the hierarchical order at all cost."

"At the council of Nicea, Jesus was formally made into a "holy" myth. The ruler Constantine was pleased because this would train his "Christian" subjects to obey the hierarchy."

"The ruled can then live inside their mythology to ease the pain of being slaves."


As I understand it (not to say I do) when Roman society overcame Greek traditions and pre-existing oral traditions, a new context for history was established, along with a new time-frame stating that "the world" began at that time - excluding knowledge of former cultures ... kind of like a 'new world order' and rewriting history to suit ruling powers of the times?

... gee, that sounds familiar ...

Doesn't this also speak to the 'changing of the guard' on the 'mountain of the gods' ... when, after the old god Uranus (Caelus) was deposed by his own son, Saturn (Cronos) - who then was displaced by his son, Jupiter (Zeus) - who took on the mantle of "the sky father" and the name of "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" ...

(((... none of that without the help of the mother ...)))

... concurrent with changes in human culture from hunter/gatherer - to agrarian - to the budding technocratic realm (in which the fossil fuel driven industrial era will be seen as a 'necessary' bump in the road) ...

... I wonder ... if Jesus is named as the son of Jehovah ...?

Coalage3 21 weeks 6 days ago
#22

I didn't say GMO was unscientific...now you are not paying attention. I said if you were pro-science, like most progressives claim to be especially when it comes to climate change, then you should be pro-GMO foods. But most progressives are not pro-GMO. Why? Therefore I conclude that progressives are only pro-science when it suits their political agenda.

If you have a different belief, lets hear it.

rs allen 21 weeks 6 days ago
#23

So once again you try to deflect. Are you intentionally being obtuse or were you just dense from birth?

quote from post #20 "YOU are the one that put the accusation out there that anti-gmo was unscientific. I only gave you the chance to prove that you're making that kind of statement from a position of knowledge."

So try reading for a change.

And no, I am not going go through line by line you've posted in this thread to help you or argue with you about both your implicit and explicit meaning of what you wrote. This not about me. It's about you backing up your statements.

Coalage3 21 weeks 6 days ago
#24

Do you as a progressive, support GMO foods, or not, even though there is not a shred of scientific evidence to support the idea that GMO foods are somehow bad for you.

Is that simple enough for you RS? So do you have an opinion, or not? This isn't about me...its about the progressive claim of being in support of science when clearly that is only the case when it supports a politcal agenda (climate change).

Quit deflecting RS and just answer the simple question (if you are able). Ask your fellow left leaning trolls to help you (if they are able).

Roland de Brabant's picture
Roland de Brabant 21 weeks 6 days ago
#25
Quote k. allen:As I understand it (not to say I do) when Roman society overcame Greek traditions and pre-existing oral traditions, a new context for history was established, along with a new time-frame stating that "the world" began at that time - excluding knowledge of former cultures ... kind of like a 'new world order' and rewriting history to suit ruling powers of the times?

A quibble. Roman society never overcame Greek society. The Romans conquered Greece and controlled trade. But both the culture and language of the Mediterranean remained Greek until the Roman Empire began to shed lintels. JC never said Et Tu Brute, his last (unrecorded) words were in Greek.

Time and calendars are a voluminous subject. In the Republic Romans identified years by their sequence in a Consul's time in office. In the Empire it was by sequence in an Emperor's reign. At least when Emperors usually ruled more than a year.

Roland

rs allen 21 weeks 6 days ago
#26

Oops! Sorry dirty coal my bad, I gave you more than one sentence at a time to parse.

quote from #20 (just one sentence this time), "I only gave you the chance to prove that you're making that kind of statement from a position of knowledge."

And so far you're scoring an f-.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 6 days ago
#27

Thanks for clarifying, Roland (#25). I should be reassured.

So, can you please help us understand where the notion that 'the world began only 4/6/10 thousand years ago' got started, what cultural groups found it relevant, and why?

Coalage3 21 weeks 6 days ago
#28

Answer the question RS, or are you afraid of being exposed? Lets try this one more time. Did you go to the same school as Zap because both of you are lacking in comprehension abilities.

Anti-GMO is anti science because there is not a shred of scientific evidence that says GMO foods are unhealthy, or harm you in any way. But the left insists that they be "labeled" as GMO. Why? They are no different than any other foods. Can you understand that RS? Is that simple enough for you? I'm sure you understood the first time but now you are just trying to deflect.

GMO foods will help to feed the worlds hungry. Why do you hate hungry people RS? Why does the left not want to feed the worlds hungry?

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 6 days ago
#29
Quote Coalage3:

If you support the science for climate change, then you should support the science for GMO foods.

Your so called "Science" from the Seller of the Product is called advertising in the real world, not Science. Fighting to hide Science is called insanity. Same as Gravity Deniers never "getting it" until they try to prove it from the top of a 10 story building.

As far as labeling, our organic supermarket labels products NO GMO's that does the same as Monsatan spending billions on lawyers and lawsuits trying to keep transparency dead. GOPers siding with GMO show such concern for our health they would rather little gopers not tax their tiny brains worrying about it. Science for GMO nonfood is the same as climate change. Their "science" is from the bottom line dwellers profits. Gullible goperverts are nothing new. Gutless cowards who hide behind children and women. Spewing hate in the name of Geeeeeeezus.

Christian voters don’t vote for candidates,
they vote party line. ~ Ralph Reed

Then when confronted, more cowardly acts leaping into the pit of denial. Nanny Rayguns taught them well. Just say no, to everything you're told. Cowardly Americans used to be an oxymoron. Dumb maybe, but never gutless as a goper. The most famous oxy moron is Lush Rimbaugh getting his maid to buy it. In a just world Drumpf will destroy the GOP and weed out the corporate DNC to bring the country back to the people. Not denialists with no integrity, morals, scruples or common sense. Fighting for Monsanto profits over the lives of Americans. Profits that only tinkle down into off shore bank accounts, not white trash teabags for drumpf.

Big Tobacco Shills Trying to Stop GMO Labeling
The food industry really hates it when you compare them to Big Tobacco. They try to deny the negative association by claiming that food is different from tobacco. Of course that's true, but why are the same consultants who have worked for the tobacco industry now shilling for Big Food, opposing the ballot initiative that would require labeling of all foods containing GMO ingredients?

Same ones fighting for Monsanto DDT, Saccharin and Aspartame. Their Round up is aborting babies the pro life my assers never mention. Pray to your chemical poison god, profits over people. Same subsidiary of Big Pharma getting rich off of sick people and the Prison Industrial Complex on non victim criminals. One sure fire way to tell if a kid is hiding something is when he tells his parents not to look under the bed. If GMO's had science backing it. Why would Monsanto spend so much money trying to defeat legislation forcing them to label foods using GMO technology, terminator seeds and round up? Cowards, the same as Fossil Fools spewing sulfur emissions regardless of the CO2. Anyone denying fossil fools harm to health should wrap their lips around a tailpipe and suck. disgUSting.

There is this wall of silence over labeling GMOs. Many consumers are unaware of what GMOs are. Or just too sick and tired to fight for their RIGHT to KNOW what they're eating and feeding their family. Labeling GMOs is about having an INFORMED choice. AS I-VT Senator Bernie Sanders said on 6/14/12 during the Farm Bill Amendment 2310 "for all intent & purposes, the long term health study on GE food is being done on the American people. WE ARE THE CLINICAL TEST."

I viewed this as a NOW or NEVER proposition. Just in the past year, 20 states have introduced bills to label GMOs. Alaska was the only state that passed a simple bill to label genetically engineered fish only. Special interest groups were able to stop labeling laws from being enacted. Really, who is running this country? A WIN in CA will be a WIN for the ENTIRE NATION.

Nearly 80% of processed food is genetically engineered. We're eating them and not knowing it. Americans are kept in the DARK about the food they eat. Why? Labeling is about TRANSPARENCY, TRUTH & TRUST.

RIght to Know! Label GMOs
http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1781
Back in early 2011, local food activist Pamm Larry was just getting started on her campaign to place a proposition on the November 2012 California ballot calling for mandatory labeling of all food products containing genetically modified organisms. Fast forward to the present: Larry (pictured) succeeded, through much hard work, brain power, organization and the help of many, to achieve just that.

Bigger harvests, without pesticides or genetically modified crops? "Sustainable agriculture" just happens to be the biggest movement in Third World farming today, dwarfing the tentative forays in genetic manipulation.

On July 29, President Barack Obama signed a bill into law requiring the labeling of food containing genetically modified ingredients, following a drawn-out battle between the food industry and pro-labeling groups on the issue.

The GOP based Fortune 700 Club agenda with Wall St seems to be to kill all of their God's creations and provide dead things as an alternative. To the point of digging up dead things like oil, gas and coal to sell. Profits over people is the way of the moneychangers who's tables were overturned by Jesus. Pro pesticides, wars and prisons while against Hemp, prenatal care and organic food. Too dumb to rationalize the difference between Jesus and Christianity, especially the newer sects believing Jerusalem should be owned by Christians. Poisons over nature,
http://i43.tinypic.com/fz9rw4.jpg

Of the $23.5 million donated so far to fight Prop. 37, here is the breakdown, by brand/corporation, according to the Cornucopia Institute:

Monsanto has doled out $4,208,000; PepsiCo (parent company of Izze Beverage Company and Naked Juice Company), $1,716,300; Coca-Cola (Honest Tea, Odwalla, Simply Orange Juice Company), $1,164,400; ConAgra (Alexia, Lightlife), $1,076,300; Kellogg Company (Kashi, MorningStar Farms, Gardenburger, Bear Naked), $632,500; General Mills (Cascadian Farm, Muir Glen, Lärabar), $520,000; Smucker’s (R.W. Knudsen, Santa Cruz Organic), $387,000; and Dean Foods (Horizon, Silk), $253,000.

Additionally, the Council for Biotechnology Information—which is made up of agricultural-pesticide giants Monsanto, DuPont, Syngenta, Dow AgroSciences, Bayer CropScience and BASF Plant Science—and the Grocery Manufacturers Association each have donated $375,000. And the Biotechnology Industry Organization has put in $250,000 toward trying to make sure Californians do not have access to accurate labeling of the food they buy, as far as GMO content goes.

Terminator Seeds Threaten an End to Farming
The 12,000-year-old practice in which farm families save their best seed from one year's harvest for the next season's planting may be coming to an end by the year 2000. In March 1998, Delta ~ Pine Land Co. arid the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) announced they had received a US patent on a new genetic technology designed to prevent unauthorized seed-saving by farmers.

Starving Babies and Illegal Food
* The hemp seed is the highest of any plant in essential amino acids and essential fatty acids. These essential fatty acids are responsible for our immune response...and contribute to more disease resistance.

DrJ • 3 days 3 hours ago #14
To answer your question, climate change denial seems to be a creature of politics.

In the case of GMO it is pure profits. Cliarence Thomas granted a seed patent to Monsanto and that started it. The fight is about labeling that Monsanto has spent a fortune trying to stop. Not that I would care if they banned Monsanto from existing or jailing the killers from decades of products doing harm. But to fight the right of consumers to know what they are eating is pushing the envelope of business and fascism.

No one likes to be told what to do but corporations have a proven track record of not voluntarily doing anything. The world has a different view than the money driven US and dozens of countries have banned it because there are no long term studies and Monsanto has hidden harmful effects of all of their products. Still fighting round up listed as a carcinigen. How gopers would go along with anything not called progressive shows clearly how Drumpf was selected.

The Denialists expose their sins of gullibility by being obedient little sheep following orders without a peep. Fossil Fools or GMO or continuing the drug war. Not by their own cognition. Just doing what they're told. They would be more comfortable with a dictator taking the burden of thought from their little minds. Just a pity the cosmos choose America to birth these wimps. Or get elected to try and destroy individuals rights. I'd say on the evolutionary chart they were separated from humans 2 million years ago when they started suckling on Hyena's teats. Now they just go in packs eating the young of free people.

Pro Life? Not even anti abortionists...
http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1530
The study found strong evidence that a woman's exposure to pesticides in the three months prior to conception or in the month of conception significantly increased her risk of spontaneous abortion. Switching cotton fields to hemp fields would improve: the quality of our soil, the durability of our clothes, the safety of our ground source water, the quality of our air, and the preservation of forests cut for paper (not to mention saving hundreds of thousands of lives prematurely ended by disease caused by pollution) These pesticides wash into streams and rivers, destroying eco-systems and poisoning human water supplies. Today the water supplies of many large cities are contaminated. Many of the vegetables we eat and clothes we wear contain pesticide residues. Hemp is a perfect sustainable raw material for thousands of products. Textiles, cosmetics, building materials, fuel and food can all be made from hemp. 90 million pounds of Monsanto poisons used on the US bible belt cotton crops yearly.

GE COTTON BITES
In India the financial figures for the 2002 cotton growing season have finally been crunched. Although Monsanto convinced many of India's farmers that buying the more expensive GE cotton seeds would result in higher yields and better cotton, the reverse is actually true. Crop yields for GE cotton were 5 TIMES LESS than traditional Indian cotton and the income from GE cotton was 7 TIMES LESS than conventional cotton due to Monsanto's cotton having lower quality short fibers. As a result of the insurmountable deluge of debt accrued from paying more for the GE seeds and having a cruddy crop, more than 70 Indian farmers have committed suicide in the last three months.

Archeology:
Ancient Temple Hashish Incense!
Did Jesus Inhale?

http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1090

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 6 days ago
#30

Young Earth creationism (YEC)
is the religious belief that the Universe, Earth, and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of God less than 10,000 years ago.#1
#1 Scott, Eugenie Carol (with foreword by Niles Eldredge) (2004). "Evolution vs. Creationism: an Introduction". Berkeley & Los Angeles, California: University of California Press: xii. ISBN 0-520-24650-0. Retrieved 3 June 2014. "Creationism is about maintaining particular, narrow forms of religious belief – beliefs that seem to their adherents to be threatened by the very idea of evolution."

Why Shouldn’t Christians Accept Millions of Years?
There is an intensifying controversy in the church all over the world regarding the age of the earth. For the first 18 centuries of church history, the almost universal belief of Christians was that God created the world in six literal days roughly 4,000 years before Christ and destroyed the world with a global Flood at the time of Noah.

But about 200 years ago some scientists developed new theories of earth history, which proposed that the earth and universe are millions of years old. Over the past 200 years Christian leaders have made various attempts to fit the millions of years into the Bible. These include the day-age view, gap theory, local flood view, framework hypothesis, theistic evolution, and progressive creation.
Biblical compromises

A growing number of Christians (now called young-earth creationists), including many scientists, hold to the traditional view, believing it to be the only view that is truly faithful to Scripture and that fits the scientific evidence far better than the reigning old-earth evolutionary theory.

Court Rules Climate Scientist Can Pursue Defamation Claims Against Critics

15 Most Ridiculous Things Media Figures Said About Climate in 2016

GOPer Science...

# The Bible clearly teaches that God created in six literal, 24-hour days a few thousand years ago. The Hebrew word for day in Genesis 1 is yom. In the vast majority of its uses in the Old Testament it means a literal day; and where it doesn’t, the context makes this clear.
# The context of Genesis 1 clearly shows that the days of creation were literal days.

There ya go... Too bad God didn't create the Bible or Science books... or was Jesus a Christian. Not that it matters, just another scam to bilk public funds for private religious so called schools.

"The mission of the Christian Coalition is simple," says Pat Robertson. It is "to mobilize Christians -- one precinct at a time, one community at a time -- until once again we are the head and not the tail, and at the top rather than the bottom of our political system." Robertson predicts that "the Christian Coalition will be the most powerful political force in America by the end of this decade." And, "We have enough votes to run this country...and when the people say, 'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!"
--Pat Robertson

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue,
The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93

Chris Hedges,
The Christian Right and the Rise of American Fascism

Mike Pence Will Be the Most Powerful Christian Supremacist in U.S. History Jeremy Scahill

Candid discussions with the Heartland Institute’s director Joseph Bast about why they’re so vehemently anti-science on climate change.

“We realized that if the science was true that would allow liberals to justify pretty much any kind of regulation, so we took another look at the science.”

In World War II, the government quickly restructured the biggest U.S. industries for the war effort. That fear—of federal intervention—appears to a major driver behind Mercer’s career path and political activism.
Naomi Klein - Bill Moyers Interview

Meet the Evangelical Christians (now) Behind Trump
— They’re Super Jewy

On the one hand, surely it feels creepy to watch a group of highly goyish, hardcore conservative evangelicals blow the shofar, wear the tallit and observe Passover. These aren’t Jews for Jesus; they’re not here to convert us. These are Jesus people for Judaism, creating a new hybrid religion in front of our eyes

People Who Oppose Trump Are Revolting Against God

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1823

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 5 days ago
#31

DdC - #29

Thank you for all that information!!! You consistently provide more than enough proof to dispel any doubts ... why is it so hard for people to see and accept?

Coalage, don't try to swallow all that in one bite - it's a lot to digest.

Are you serious? Why do you frame everything in terms of either/or, left/right, liberal/conservative, republican/democrat ... it's so two dimensional. I wonder if we could look at other aspects of the argument and come closer to the real issues, and possible answers that speak to all of us.

You want people of the planet to have food to eat?

If I recall, the Golden Arches were established under that banner. For a while there, you could fill your gut for a buck - or even 50 cents. By now, probably still good for investors, this brand of All- American excellence is a favorite place to dine out - around the world.

Yet, the BigAg GMO thrust breaks the back of the small farmers, infecting private crops with seeds that produce non-fertile seed crops, and industrial strength pesticides that force resistance - then taking them to court for violation of patents ... does anyone know how many small farmers have gone bankrupt this way?

Coalage, do you believe humanity will be better nourished from factory farms and industrial crops? Is it possible this could be achieved, even better, with regionally engineered permaculture solutions? We are what we eat, you know ... all of it.

(DdC - #30)


"A growing number of Christians (now called young-earth creationists), including many scientists, hold to the traditional view, believing it to be the only view that is truly faithful to Scripture and that fits the scientific evidence far better than the reigning old-earth evolutionary theory."

... and, no doubt, reading from scriptures that have been (mis)translated and (dys)interpreted from original context and form in lockstep with advancing bodIes of evidence that suit the science and political advantage of the times ... which, by the bye, still are passing ... and open to interpretation by those who dare to question conventional wisdom ...?

Coalage3 21 weeks 5 days ago
#32

GMO foods are as safe as any food you can grow in your back yard (maybe even safer actually). Do I think we can be better nourished by GMO foods? Of course. Its called scientific progress.

Oh wait, never mind...I forgot. Progressives don't believe in scientific facts unless it supports their political agenda. The promotion of GMO foods might mean that a corporate farm group somewhere might actually make a profit. Perish that thought!

GMO foods might also help feed the poor and hungry in this world. But I guess thats not important to progressives.

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

Coalage3 21 weeks 5 days ago
#33

GMO foods are as safe as any food you can grow in your back yard (maybe even safer actually). Do I think we can be better nourished by GMO foods? Of course. Its called scientific progress.

Oh wait, never mind...I forgot. Progressives don't believe in scientific facts unless it supports their political agenda. The promotion of GMO foods might mean that a corporate farm group somewhere might actually make a profit. Perish that thought!

GMO foods might also help feed the poor and hungry in this world. But I guess thats not important to progressives. Borlaug is rolling over in his grave.

What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

Kilosqrd's picture
Kilosqrd 21 weeks 5 days ago
#34

Reply to #17

Okay Roland, please tell us all when is the absolute date that mankind must stop using fossil fuels if we, as human beings, all begin to parish due to climate change. Please provide us with the data you use to validate your conclusions. I will even allow you a plus or minus window of 2 years.

Of course I will be waiting a long, long time before you respond. And you have the nerve to call me a dummy?

rs allen 21 weeks 5 days ago
#35

That's pretty one dimensional dirty coal.

Yes, we've been playing around with the genetics of foods groups (among others) for a long time, so that's just barely, just the mere teensiest of an argument in favor of gmo's. Anything else?

What have you learned of the down sides or possible down sides?

Are you making your decision from a position of knowledge?

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 5 days ago
#36
Quote Coalage3: GMO foods are as safe as any food you can grow in your back yard

That is what Monsanto says too. Oh ya, they sell it. You have no proof it is safe long term because there are no long term studies. Only propaganda by Monsanto. How damn gullible can you be? Its profits dork, You think Monsanto cared when they sold DDT or Saccharin? Or now Rumsfeld fast tracked Aspartame. They love artificial sweeteners. Or dioxins, pcbs and now round up are all safe according to Monsanto. No one is advocating banning GMO, just labeling it until long term studies are complete. BY Independent sources. With Drumpf and Big Pharma taking over the FDA Independent studies are the least controversial. Until then just label the crap so consumers can make the choice.

Quote Coalage3: Oh wait, never mind...I forgot. Progressives don't believe in scientific facts

Stop your silly unsubstantiated bullshit about facts when you haven't brought a link to back it up. Or try to politicize greed and harmful products. You have no opinion of your own and its highly doubtful you will see profits so that means you're really only here because you hate Americans who side with progressives. Since genetically modified food is very nonpartisan, Not cloning plants they have done for years. Genetically changing the plant has s not been tested long term. The only studies were conducted by Monsanto and that is why most of Europe banned it. You are no different than the silly fools waiting for tinkle down. You believe the profiteers and assume they would never lie while Americans are supposed to take their word for it.

They are fighting labeling. If its safe then why would they not want anyone to know its in the product? Like banning medicinal cannabis research after discovering it shrank tumors. Big fucking red flags and idiots bury their heads to avoid seeing them. Its not hard to see why GOPerverts voted for the 1% without a drop of tinkle down in 3 decades. You're too stupid for words. Monsanto poisons people and then sends lawyers like Cliarence Thomas to harass and fight the victims. Or sue farmers. No accountability and you take their word at face value. Thats as naive as it gets. Stop selling out Americans for a paycheck. Label it and I'll know what not to buy. What's the problem unless they're hiding something and would rather profit than wait for long term studies. With puppets selling out their own families and kids so Monsanto can once again make a fortune and then their subsidiaries can sell treatment drugs to deal with it.

Quote Coalage3: GMO foods might also help feed the poor and hungry in this world.

I assume you had someone read their advertizment to you, too bad they didn't tell you it was an advertizment. Indian farmers are committing suicide because they put everything into Monsanto frankenfud and found out they lied. The poisons genetically added to the seed was supposed to lower the cost of buying chemicals and it didn't. They also rely on saved seeds for next years crop and that doesn't happen with terminator tech seeds that are sterile and patented. So they pay more for Monsanto seeds and then pay for the normal poisons for weeds and bugs not covered. Then pay again next year for a new crop. So the ad says its about feeding the hungry and they end up losing the farm. Monsatan got its bad reputation by hurting people. Get over it.

The utter hypocrisy of GOPerverts is beyond comprehension. No one yells louder about the dangers of pot than a goper. Especially prohibitionists profitting on the drug war. More testing is all they yell when they have no wiggle room to stop it. More testing?

There’s Been Over 20,000 Studies On Marijuana;
What Is It That Scientists ‘Do Not Yet Know?

Possibly the most-studied substance on the planet
http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1900

The Politics of Pot
http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/sreply/282

Quote Indian Hemp Drugs Commission, 1894:
"The commission has come to the conclusion that the moderate use of hemp drugs is practically attended by no evil results at all. ... ...moderate use of hemp... appears to cause no appreciable physical injury of any kind,... no injurious effects on the mind... [and] no moral injury whatever."

Oh but when the profits are at stake for Monsanto who has taken a large chunk of the $Trillion spent so far fighting Americans using drugs. Then the gopers want to expedite selling it. No tests are needed, Monsanto says its ok. No labeling needed, some might not want genetically modified crap and they would know if it was labeled. That is not how to sell a product dude. It is a cowardly way to profit on getting Americans sick.

I think your frankenfud is having an affect. You double posted the same bullshit on #33 as was on #32. Don't be nervous, just go and sin no more...

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 5 days ago
#37

(Coalage3 - #32-33)


"GMO foods are as safe as any food you can grow in your back yard (maybe even safer actually). Do I think we can be better nourished by GMO foods? Of course. Its called scientific progress."

I would choose the organic greenhouse of a master gardener over a factory farm, anytime. I heard the Gates Foundation supports GMO research. I also talked with a woman whose husband had worked overseas for that group, and had to cancel the operation because corruption was so rampant they could not make it work.

I think permaculture points the way:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A


"Oh wait, never mind...I forgot. Progressives don't believe in scientific facts unless it supports their political agenda. The promotion of GMO foods might mean that a corporate farm group somewhere might actually make a profit. Perish that thought!"

Did I hear one complaint against 'progressive environmentalists' is that they are a bunch of elitists who just want to make money?

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 5 days ago
#38

(Kilosgard - #34)


"... when is the absolute date that mankind must stop using fossil fuels if we, as human beings, all begin to parish due to climate change. Please provide us with the data you use to validate your conclusions. I will even allow you a plus or minus window of 2 years."

In geologic time, your "plus or minus window of 2 years" is no more than a grain of sand. Why not ask ourselves what really matters?

Look at the garbage we pour into the environment. - all of it, from every source. It simply is not necessary. Now. Look at pictures you can find of pristine environs - undisturbed by human predation. If you had a choice, which world would you choose to live in?

If you choose [Door #2], what can you do to make it so?

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 5 days ago
#39

(Coalage3 - #32-33)


"GMO foods might also help feed the poor and hungry in this world. But I guess thats not important to progressives."

Sorry people, I just have to do this:


I don't want to see bloated bellies, one way or another ... from malnutrition and starvation, or from excessive appetite and overindulgence in a world painted black and white, all wrapped up in a checkerboard square with no room to move, and no breath in the air - preserved in plastics ...,

... and in posterity ...


That is what life is like for those whose lives are confined in factory farms, you know ... including the humans who vent their frustrations on the helpless, captive animals ...


What if it is true that we are what we eat?


Is that what you want to feed your family, Coalage?

It is painfully clear that you do care ...

From what I can see, everyone cares about something - even those who don't.

Can we look for a key to open the door of relevant conversation and work toward meaningful change ..., like, communicate around what we can do, here and now - with available options?

If you're just here to distract, I can ignore you. If you are serious, why not explore the links on .ren's new site? He's on to some really neat stuff.

I may find it complicated, even a challenge to really get, but I keep at it. I know one thing: I do not know it all. So, I try to see what's there, even if it doesn't quite make sense to me ... because I know I have more to learn.

See?

Check it out:

http://renhunt.wixsite.com/watching-apocalypse

For myself, I much prefer to see healthy, happy people living healthy, happy lives in a healthy, happy world ..., oh, dream on!!! There has to be at least one old song about that rainbow in the clouds

Hey rs, can you come up with 3 of those tunes? I'll weave them into a medley. That would be neat.

Ok. I have work to do. Sooner than later,

ka

rs allen 21 weeks 4 days ago
#40

I'll try Kay.

Lets start by imagining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww

Flying into blue skies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epRXoS_P0lk

For a visit to brother IZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

k. allen's picture
k. allen 21 weeks 4 days ago
#41

Thanks, rs. I'll see what I can do ... I think Ella Fitzgerald and the big band sound are like a ripened vine at harvest time already too full for anything else to grow there ... it's a stand alone ... kind of like "Blue Skies ... nothin' but Blue Skies, all day long ..."

Where are the clouds in this song ...?

Long gone ... for a minute ...,

What holds the rainbow there ... for a moment, or more ...?

Besides, I don't do love songs ... you know how, if you really want to sing a song, you have to live it. Right? For me now, it is - and must be - universal love. I don't like to deify man any more than I want to personify divinity.

So, OK, though ...

OVER THE RAINBOW with Israel "12" Kamakawiwo'ole

... is really sweet! He reminds me of Maui ((shapeshifter, demigod of the wind and sea, hero of men)) in the movie Moana.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

Here's another version in a different key that might ring true:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvi0VanHbk

... ok, so that could play in and through "IMAGINE" as a foundational progression ((a bit sleepy all by itself ... still, the dream _is_ alive)):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgFZfRVaww

... and, I found a piece of silk golden thread to stitch it together:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdffxj7pNE

... it could work.

I'll put it into the tumbler and see what turns up.

OK, now, I need to tune out.

... if all you folks want to do is tear each other down ..., who cleans up the mess?

Coalage3 21 weeks 4 days ago
#42

Why do progressives hate the poor and hungry people in the world? Why? I thought progressives championed themselves as defenders of the defenseless (except when it comes to unborn children, but thats another issue), the poor, the hungry, the homeless.

Why do progressives, supposedly the party of science, deny the scientific facts supporting the use of GMO foods? Why do progressives hate hungry people? I guess DdC hates Monsanto more than he cares about feeding the hungry. I can come to no other conclusion as the science supporting GMO foods is just as solid (and probably more so) than any science supporting climate change.

Why do progressives hate science and why do they hate the hungry? What has happened to the democratic party in this country?

rs allen 21 weeks 4 days ago
#43
Quote k. allen:

... if all you folks want to do is tear each other down ..., who cleans up the mess?

Let the crows and coyotes do the clean up. They do a pretty decent job,

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 4 days ago
#44

Dude you have provided no science. Just more gossip making false claims. Nothing about feeding the hungry, that has been explained as bullshit. Nothing about safety or long term studies that you claim and make false claims as if they were true. Then continue building your straw man from there. Not out of concern for the hungry, just to bash democrats you seem to fear more than Monsanto. Same as basing cannabis with the CSA even though there is no science putting it there. You claim it will save the hungry and then blame democrats for Wall St. corporations and banksters defaults as the reason for the hunger. Thats beyond ignorance.

Bring the proof and I will still not use GMO anything as it is my choice. If you want to feed the hungry, all I say is label the crap so we can decide for ourselves. Then explain how to feed the hungry when it cost more to use GMO? Oh I know those pesky questions interrupt your advertisment. Are republicans afraid of citizens making choices? They definably don't want women making them on their own bodies. Or Trans or Gays choices. Or let sick people make a choice of using cannabis. Or healthy people using a safer alternative than booze or pills with Ganja. Seems choice is not in your cards goper. Just a groupie for a big tax eating nanny state going into peoples bedrooms and medicine cabinets.

Yes I have a definite dislike for Monsanto. Not hate. I believe both hate and love are abnormal conditions of temporary insanity, outside of the parameters of sanity somewhere in-between them. I try to keep clear of them. So I don't hate them for Agent Orange killing millions long term. Or their fake sugars or DDT, dioxins or pcbs. I want them locked up and the key thrown away to bring justice to the victims, not hate. I want their bank accounts added to the victims health care. I want their crap removed from the store shelves and I want the guilty brought to justice for siding with profits and poisons over people. But I don't hate them or anyone, not even you.

Say What? A Republican Just Introduced a Bill to End the Federal Prohibition of Marijuana

Coalage3 21 weeks 4 days ago
#45

Fine...ignore the science. Just don't say you are a climate change supporter because the science is in your favor. That's the issue here. You can eat whatever foods you want. You can smoke whatever you want. Knock yourself out.

But your fellow progressives will line up and say climate change is real because the science says so, but then turn around and deny the science that says GMO foods are healthy and fine for consumption.

No consistency in your positions.

rs allen 21 weeks 4 days ago
#46

Oh hum as ever. The ignorant fool prattles on.

Try, just try to read once in awhile before you open your mouth and say something stupid. Better yet next time you open your mouth do it for a nice refreshing drink of Round Up.

Go read something other than advertisement for crying out loud.

rs allen 21 weeks 4 days ago
#47

Yo, DdC. I've got an idea I want to see play out. Do you know of any outlets selling hemp t's of good quality? Any you can personally vouch for in quality of product?

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 3 days ago
#48
Quote Coalage3:

Fine...ignore the science.

Monsanto Sucks, I approve this message...

You keep repeating that, what science? Your mouth keeps writing checks your ass can't cash. Where is this science you start the claim with? Not that it matters. As long as Monsanto sells it, I ain't buyin. That is totally due to their track record from DDT to Aspartame. Millions of Americans with cancer and dead relatives because of Monsanto's greed.

Food Insecurity: Monsanto

No different than Dressler selling to Haliburton after hiding Asbestos information. Or the Aluminum Trust writing the safety standards of their hazardous waste fluoride. Banning Hemp or before that removing ethanol with the 18th Amendment. Taking over electric trolley cars with Rockefeller crude oil buses. Monsatan can not be trusted, period.

Monsanto crap

So you fight for the cowards dumping dioxins in the Mississippi River or tons of Agent Orange on Veterans and Vietnamese children. How many have suffered from Saccharin or will from Aspartame taken from the hazardous list by Rumsfeld and fast tracked as another fake sugar. You keep missing these in your liberal bashing one track mind.

Millions Against Monsanto
For over two decades, Monsanto and corporate agribusiness have exercised near-dictatorial control over American agriculture. Finally, public opinion around the biotech industry's contamination of our food supply and destruction of our environment has reached the tipping point. We're fighting back.

Like Ralph Reed says, GOPers, especially Christians, vote for who they're told to vote for in one block. Not the candidate or their qualifications or past history. Hitler got in the same way. Divide the people and promise them safety from the threats while killing those in opposition. Now profit prisons are caging opposition over killing. This is not American or is Monsanto profits over people. You either get it or you don't. I hope you don't think this is a reply, its a psa.

Mon$anto'$ WoD on Ditchweed

Paul Wellstone

Columbian schoolchildren sprayed from above

Toxic Drift Monsanto and the Drug War in Colombia

A prominent U.S. Senator and other government officials from both Washington and Bogota stood on a Colombian mountainside above fields of lime-green coca -- the plant sacred to Andean Indians, but also the source of the troublesome drug cocaine. They were awaiting a demonstration of aerial herbicide spraying, part of the U.S. drug war in Colombia. The spectacle, put on by the U.S. embassy in Bogota last December, was supposed to address Senator Paul Wellstone's doubts about the accuracy and safety of the U.S.-sponsored drug fumigation program.

However that turned out not to be the case. "On the very first flyover by the cropduster, the U.S. Senator, the U.S. Ambassador to Colombia, the Lieutenant Colonel of the Colombian National Police, and other Embassy and congressional staffers were fully doused -- drenched, in fact -- with the sticky, possibly dangerous (herbicide) Monsato's Roundup."

"Imagine what is happening when a high-level congressional delegation is not present," Farrell noted, pointing out that careful preparation had gone into the botched flyover. Wellstone left Colombia completely unconvinced by the Embassy.

Monsanto Hid Decades Of Pollution

The Millions Against Monsanto Campaign was started by the Organic Consumers Association in the mid 1990s to fight back against Monsanto and the other Biotech Bullies who are responsible for creating Agent Orange, PCBs, Roundup (glyphosate) and other toxins that threaten human health and the environment.

Monsanto’s Dirty Dozen mega-deal With Bayer Heroin for Children

Help Stop the Monsanto Protection Act

Genetic Engineering
What you need to know

GMO = Genetically Modified Organism
GMOs are created in a lab, by inserting a gene from one organism into another unrelated organism, producing plants and animals that would never occur in nature. No long-term safety studies have been done on humans, but animal studies link the consumption of GMOs to an increase in allergies, kidney and liver disease, ADHD, cancer, infertility, chronic immune disorders and more.

Holy Shit Batman! Cannabis treatment of allergies, kidney and liver disease, ADHD, cancer, infertility, chronic immune disorders and more.

Well at least if some sneaky goper slips me some GizMO food I'll be covered. 8)

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 3 days ago
#49
Quote rs allen:

Yo, DdC. I've got an idea I want to see play out. Do you know of any outlets selling hemp t's of good quality? Any you can personally vouch for in quality of product?

I buy my jeans and shirts at Dash Hemp the last decade and Eco-Goods before that. Good wear and comfortable. Machine washable and a natural oder eater. As with anything I try to check the timeline and Hemp is best for the soil, minimizing chemical fertilizers with deep roots aerating the soil. natural pest deterrent, less pesticides. Smothers all weeds as the king of weeds, less herbicides and kindling for wild fires. Most of the DEA eradications are from wild hemp ditchweed in the Mid West. Pheasant habitat, so the game hunters and National Audubon Society were/are concerned.

Just an overall superior product, except the price that is totally caused by prohibition. During holidays Dash has been taking longer to deliver after selling out. Plus it can't be over emphasized that imports means dealing with other countries manufacturing.

Hemp Seed and Oil from Nutiva is the best price for larger amounts. There are a few other Canadian products but I haven't tried them. Australia is getting into it but again, import cost. It seems daily doses of Hemp Oil has helped patients build the immune system faster to fight off infection, rather than kill the bacteria as the ABs, along with good bugs for digestion. So we haven't had to use antibiotics in over 10 years. I've heard of others with similar results. I used a Hemp oil and Ganja dust potion once for a patients psoriasis, after otc meds didn't do a thing for a week. It worked overnight with the oil alone and gone for good once I re-did the polstice mixed with the Ganja dust.

I also use Hemp body care products for patients. Global Hemp. Amazon has some of it but their work practices are questionable so I don't use them. Both DASH and Nutiva, I buy online even though DASH has a store on the other side of town. As do most larger cities have some sort of Hemp clothing. Most organic grocery stores carry Hemp Seed and Oil and products with it.. , at least in CA.

That was a result of a Hawaiian company Alterna ? during Clinton sued the DEA to sell hemp products that the DEA said could contain thc. I'm only giving this info to those who won't smoke their blue jeans. Coaly!

DdC's picture
DdC 21 weeks 3 days ago
#50

☛ DoH! I forgot Dr Bronner's Peppermint Soap.
https://www.drbronner.com/

Hemp Expo's bring a variety of products.

Hemp Products
Schedule#1 Narcotic for US farmers,

State Patrol on prowl for ditchweed harvesters
30 countries have been growing Hemp for personal needs, Italy and the Pope never stopped after the 1937 MTA. Corporate Legislation.

US Government GanjaRx.JPG
Elvy Musikka, 72, who suffers from glaucoma, shows the canister holding marijuana cigarettes she regularly receives from the U.S. Government in Eugene, Ore.,
Sept. 27, 2011. AP

AP: The label.jpg on the side of Elvy Musikka's canister of government-issued marijuana cigarettes.jpg

Free pot?
Federal program ships marijuana to four

4 Americans get medical pot from the feds

Dispensaries GanjaRx
cannabisculturedispensary.com.jpg

Ganja products.jpg

Hemp and Corporatism.jpg

Come to think of it, I can see why they fight labeling.
Seeing; Genetically Modified Organisms on the Corn Flakes Box...
Yuummm!

Exxon and Big Erl make Monsatan seem almost not as barbaric.
Now they can exploit more countries Erl having Texas Tea with the Tillerman as SoS.

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Why Bannon Is Out

With Steve Bannon's White House days officially over, could Trump himself soon end up on the chopping block?

Just in case you haven't heard the big news - Steve Bannon is OUT at the White House.

Depending on who you ask - the now-former White House strategist was either fired or handed in his resignation a few weeks ago, and left earlier today.