Comments

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#1

I don't know this for a fact, but I've a strong hunch why the thread disappeared. Michelle and Alyona took over the thread and hogged it, making it impossible for others to participate or carry on a discussion. And with her unprovoked attack against me, Michelle violated the code of civility established by Kathleen, before any discussion could even get started. In doing so, Michelle created a hostile environment, making it all the more difficult for such a discussion to proceed. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if this were not the case.

The moment Michelle's name appeared on that thread, I knew it was doomed. Much as I appreciate Kathleen's good intentions, I think she was being very naieve to welcome Michelle and Alyona into that forum. I knew that in all likelihood, they would sabotage it, which is exactly what happened. It quickly evolved into a private chat between Michelle and Alyona while all the other participants left, including me.

It wouldn't surprise me if this post were to be followed by multiple rebuttals from those two. But you know what they say about that river in Egypt.... Anyway that's my answer. Take it or leave it. - AIW

michellekovalik's picture
michellekovalik 4 years 38 weeks ago
#2

Lies, slander, distortion. Once again AIW, you are WRONG on a point. It was ME who made the suggestion to begin a new thread, k.allen just went ahead and did it. Check the thread. That is a FACT.

You are a skipping record of trauma in your own mind, projecting your memories of pain on anyone who triggers them.

You admit this on the "Female Aggression" thread, how you were left out, how other girls bullied you, how painful this was for you. You also admit to "being angry", your words.

Trouble is, you've become the bully, the "mean girl". It makes you feel powerful because inside you are so hurt, by your own admission. I bet your insides are like a writhing knot of ache, twisting and constricting so tightly it's impossible to ignore. Your anguish is palpable. I know that feeling myself, many people do, but where you might've made friends, you made enemies.

To claim that you were attecked uprovoked is also a lie, but you are very successful at weaving alternate realities that you manipulate others into believing. You created a fantasy in your mind about who I am, you cherry-picked and distorted reality to justify this fantasy. Then went about rounding up allies, presenting them with your distorted fantasy, and convinced a few. Really, who's the mean girl with her clique?

You succeeded in getting me censored.

Not once, nowhere did I call you names, though I do note that you called me a "gadfly".

Well, I cannot control other's interpretations of reality, nor do I wish to, nor do I need to.

Take care of yourself, wounded sister. Hope you find peace.

MlK

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#3

Hah! Predictable indeed. I'll not dignify any of your shit with a reply. I stopped reading your posts days ago. Have a lovely week and bye-bye. - AIW

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#4

Thanks, ZZ, for having my back in such hostile territory as this. Neither Palindromedary or Ms. Kovalik could care less about having a serious discussion about rape or rape culture, which makes it rather odd that they kept gravitating back to those threads. It seems they only wanted to sabotage and obstruct those discussions by diverting them away from the subject at hand.

I never thought people like Kathleen, Nimblevet or the other initial bloggers on that thread had it in for you and me, or intended to deny the existence of rape culture. If I did, I never would have bothered with it. That thread only turned hostile after Ms. Kovalik and Alyona intervened. The moment Ms. K's name first appeared, I knew it was doomed to crash & burn. I'm sure the little twit is feeling very satisfied with herself. Her rants against me on that thread were pathetic, not worthy of any response beyond calling her out on her sophomoric little game. Since then I've resolved that her posts are not worth reading or responding to.

Far as the "gentler, kinder" thread is concerned, and its ultimate fate, I never assumed the webmaster deleted it. I think Kathleen probably did the deed. It obviously was going nowhere, thanks to those two horse flies. At any rate, I am done reading their posts or engaging in any interaction with them. It gets boring awful fast when all your opponent has is character assassination and/or a roster of insults, under the pretense of honest "debate". The best way to starve a bully is to ignore her (or him). In my realm of reality they are nothing but speed bumps on the road of life. - AIW

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#5

I'm noticing that this post isn't going to the top of the list, despite our having posted comments later than those at the others. What's up with that?

Let's see, if it moves this time...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#6

ZZ, I'm surprised by your last post. Thom's blog works differently from most blogs. Most blogs have the most recent posts at the top; on Thom's website it's the opposite. It's always been that way. - AIW

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 38 weeks ago
#7

.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#8

..

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 4 years 38 weeks ago
#9

Wow! Four can play at this game. I agree with you all.

Well said!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 38 weeks ago
#10

♠ ♡ ♢ ♣

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 38 weeks ago
#11

☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮

DAnneMarc's picture
DAnneMarc 4 years 38 weeks ago
#12

That reminds me of my nephew... When he intentionally tries to break one of his toys. Ah, to be young again...

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#13

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 38 weeks ago
#14

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 38 weeks ago
#15

.♖ ♘ ♗ ♔ ♕ ♗ ♘ ♖
.♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ ♙ ♙
.
.
.
.
.♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟ ♟
.♜ ♞ ♝ ♚ ♛ ♝ ♞ ♜

MarinaL's picture
MarinaL 4 years 38 weeks ago
#16
Quote michellekovalik:

Lies, slander, distortion. Once again AIW, you are WRONG on a point. It was ME who made the suggestion to begin a new thread, k.allen just went ahead and did it. Check the thread. That is a FACT.

You are a skipping record of trauma in your own mind, projecting your memories of pain on anyone who triggers them.

You admit this on the "Female Aggression" thread, how you were left out, how other girls bullied you, how painful this was for you. You also admit to "being angry", your words.

Trouble is, you've become the bully, the "mean girl". It makes you feel powerful because inside you are so hurt, by your own admission. I bet your insides are like a writhing knot of ache, twisting and constricting so tightly it's impossible to ignore. Your anguish is palpable. I know that feeling myself, many people do, but where you might've made friends, you made enemies.

To claim that you were attecked uprovoked is also a lie, but you are very successful at weaving alternate realities that you manipulate others into believing. You created a fantasy in your mind about who I am, you cherry-picked and distorted reality to justify this fantasy. Then went about rounding up allies, presenting them with your distorted fantasy, and convinced a few. Really, who's the mean girl with her clique?

You succeeded in getting me censored.

Not once, nowhere did I call you names, though I do note that you called me a "gadfly".

Well, I cannot control other's interpretations of reality, nor do I wish to, nor do I need to.

Take care of yourself, wounded sister. Hope you find peace.

MlK

All true MIK.Someone who could not bond with her own gender at school and who still dislikes children is a very disturbed person indeed. It is everything that a real WOMAN is not.

michellekovalik's picture
michellekovalik 4 years 38 weeks ago
#17

I apologize for calling anyone a pigeon.

I do not apologize for using legitimate terms, such as "uber-feminist", or "narcissism" for example, as such terms are simply describing the reality and behavior as I perceived it.

There is a difference. Neither term is a pejorative, but if you perceived them as such, then I would argue that the shoe fits and was therefor an accurate assessment.

"Pathetic, pathos, pathological, no empathy" was directed to no one, no salutation,( a FACT-check it) and was a simply a summation of the overall environment within the thread. If anyone assumed that was directed specifically at them, that confirms his/her own paranoia.

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#18

Michelle, I must admit I admire your writing ability, but that's about it. I do not admire your dishonesty, your passive-aggressive, patronizing attitude, your assumption of coming from a place of peace, claiming never to have insulted us, while you have, in fact, insulted us in no uncertain terms. Of course, you're entitled to your opinions of us, but please do not pretend to be blameless, or the innocent victim of "uber-fems."

Apparently, I'm going to have to count the ways. Here are a few of your ad hominems, and your rejections of us as fellow human beings:

• "uber-feminist,"

• "the feminist right"

• "uber-fems."

• "... zz and aiw are pigeons sent to poke our human hive."

• "...this thread has become a narcissistic selfrightgeous exercise in selfishness."

• "‘nasrcissism’"

• "pathetic, pathos, pathological, no empathy,"

• "feminist fundamentalism"

• "those who have no limbic system"

• "fundies."

Sorry, Michelle, but you don't get to come off smelling like a rose this time.

AIW, I don't know why that thread disappeared. It may be that K. Allen removed it herself. I don't know if one can do that with a blog post in the blog section. You can delete your post/thread in the Message Board section. I sort of doubt the powers-that-be here did it, because I don't really think it was any more offensive than any of the other threads. I think your exceptions to it, though, are well taken and accurate.

I'm thinking perhaps K. Allen may honestly not be aware of doing any damage with her thread, despite my clearly having objected to the need for it, and she may have felt wounded by things that have been said and done. I'm sorry for that, if true. She was perfectly within her right to start a thread of her own, even if it missed the point of the original Rape Culture thread. It didn't interest me, though, considering that it was clear they just wanted to talk about rape, deny the importance of a discussion about rape culture, and gossip about what terrible human beings you and I are.

Ah well, can't win 'em all... maybe with time...

:-)

P.S.: A number of those slurs by Michelle directed at AIW and me are extremist criticisms based on HATRED of feminists, therefore they are ad hominems. I am not an "uber-feminist," an "uber-fem" nor a "radical" feminist, nor a "fundamentalist," and I take umbrage at such slurs. I am a feminist, plain and simple, though I am also a humanist, which you would know if you'd ever bothered to comprehend anything I have written on this forum, and if you weren't so biased against feminism.

The others words were pure insult based on ignorance of us as whole human beings.

Michelle, your behavior on the original thread on Rape Culture, raving about how the thread must "STOP!!!" and your continual attempt to interfere with our discussion violated the terms of this forum. Such a need to control, such dominating behavior!

I'd also like to know how your response to my comment here shot to number one, displacing AIW's that was originally at the top. What's going on here?! It's completely crazy. Is that the reason you don't get rape culture and wish to silence us on the subject? Are you big on power too, at heart, so you can't see the problem? Just wondering...

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#19

(duplicate)

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#20
Quote Aliceinwonderland:

ZZ, I'm surprised by your last post. Thom's blog works differently from most blogs. Most blogs have the most recent posts at the top; on Thom's website it's the opposite. It's always been that way. - AIW

Sorry, AIW, it hasn't. This is the first I've ever noticed that in the many years I've been here. The most recent comment has always shown up at the bottom, just like at the message boards. It has been changed. Of course, I haven't bothered much with this side of things much lately, so perhaps it was changed when I wasn't looking; still, it was changed.

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#21

P.S.: A number of those slurs by Michelle directed at AIW and me are extremist criticisms based on HATRED of feminists, therefore they are ad hominems. I am not an "uber-feminist," an "uber-fem" nor a "radical" feminist, nor a "fundamentalist," and I take umbrage at such slurs. I am a feminist, plain and simple, though I am also a humanist, which you would know if you'd ever bothered to comprehend anything I have written on this forum, and if you weren't so biased against feminism.

The others words were pure insult based on ignorance of us as whole human beings.

Michelle, your behavior on the original thread on Rape Culture, raving about how the thread must "STOP!!!" and your continual attempt to interfere with our discussion violated the terms of this forum. Such a need to control, such dominating behavior!

michellekovalik's picture
michellekovalik 4 years 38 weeks ago
#22

My appeals to "stop" in the other thread was because I saw a lack of sensitivity within the discussion of a dead girland the feelings of her family. It was an appeal for civility and respect for a dead girl and her family, and for all rape survivors. Barring a return to civility I did 3 things.

!. If repect and civility wasn't possible, to stop the thread out of sensitivy to Reteah Parson's memory and to her family who could be reading the post.

2.Beacuse my appeal was ignored, I suggested a new thread be started, which happened ,though it has since disapeared.

3.I wrote my OWN blog post, "Rape and The Elephant"

Once again you've distorted reality. Furthermore, I never said that I hate feminists, but I did say that I reject the FUNDAMENTALIST mindset, including feminist fundamentalism, which is the variety of feminism which is evidentially what you believe in and endorse . I stand by my rejection of "fundamentalist" or "radical" feminism.

I am a Humanist. Women are humans. Some women are feminists. To conclude that I hate all femininsts is a fallacious conclusion.

Fundamentalism is adherence to a single interpretation to the exclusion of all others. I reject all forms of fundamentalism. Some forms of feminism is fundamentalist in it's belief and expression. Therefore I reject fundamentalist feminism.To conclude that I reject all feminism is a fallacious conclusion.

Lies, slander, distortion.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 38 weeks ago
#23

What you are, Michelle, is a control freak. That is how you come across. You came barging into that original thread about rape culture as a newbie and tried invalidating the whole premise of the discussion; then when we wouldn't comply, you resorted to personal attacks. You need to grow up. - AIW

Zenzoe 4 years 38 weeks ago
#24
Quote michellekovalik:

My appeals to "stop" in the other thread was because I saw a lack of sensitivity within the discussion of a dead girland the feelings of her family. It was an appeal for civility and respect for a dead girl and her family, and for all rape survivors. Barring a return to civility I did 3 things.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity, I have to say Sorry, Michelle, but it's not your job to monitor the threads. By the time you started your shrill demands to end the thread, the hostilities had ended, and the discussion was simply continuing according to the differences of opinion, which are entirely allowed. We're allowed to disagree, and if you continue to demand "civility" based on total agreement, then you'll be in for a surprise everywhere you go on this site.

Quote michellekovalik:

!. If repect and civility wasn't possible, to stop the thread out of sensitivy to Reteah Parson's memory and to her family who could be reading the post.

Again, with respect for your sincerity, I have to remind you that the entire thread began and continued out of sensitivity, and horror, about what had happened to that unfortunate girl. In fact, it is the deniers of rape culture who dishonor her memory. If I were her parent and came across such a thread (first, I wouldn't even read it, nor search the internet for topics centered on my daughter's rape and suicide), I would be shocked to know that so many people dropped in to minimize rape culture, deny its existence, blame victims of rape culture, side with alleged rapists and sexists, and express hatred for the people who advocate for a change to rape culture. That's what would hurt— that nothing changed after the fact, and rape culture continued unfazed.

Quote michellekovalik:

2.Beacuse my appeal was ignored, I suggested a new thread be started, which happened ,though it has since disapeared.

You guys had every right to start a new thread, but you shouldn't have expected no push-back on that. Also, your expressed motivation for starting a "more civil" thread quickly revealed itself as a fraud, as you continued to slam and insult us.

Clearly, Michelle, you're no nicer, kinder, nor more dedicated to civility than anybody else. Not that you're a bad person for feeling angry sometimes and for being aggressive. It's just that, with all due respect, it might be important for you to own it, just for once.

Quote michellekovalik:

3.I wrote my OWN blog post, "Rape and The Elephant"

An excellent essay, for sure.

Quote michellekovalik:

Once again you've distorted reality. Furthermore, I never said that I hate feminists, but I did say that I reject the FUNDAMENTALIST mindset, including feminist fundamentalism, which is the variety of feminism which is evidentially what you believe in and endorse . I stand by my rejection of "fundamentalist" or "radical" feminism.

What exactly makes my opinions on Rape Culture "fundamentalist?" What to your mind defines "fundamentalist feminist?" Specifics, please, and the evidence. And, what do you really know about me, Michelle?

Quote michellekovalik:

I am a Humanist. Women are humans. Some women are feminists. To conclude that I hate all femininsts is a fallacious conclusion.

Fundamentalism is adherence to a single interpretation to the exclusion of all others. I reject all forms of fundamentalism. Some forms of feminism is fundamentalist in it's belief and expression. Therefore I reject fundamentalist feminism.To conclude that I reject all feminism is a fallacious conclusion.

The words you used in reference to AIW and me were name-calling, and the context of those names revealed the hatred and rejection underneath those labels.

Again, what's the evidence? Where have you supported feminism? Why, when we simply meant to correct myths about rape and rape culture, that is, when we tried to inform others about the characteristics of the thing, why did that qualify us as "uber-fems?" I'm not seeing the reasoning there, quite frankly, and I think it's time for you to be honest with us.

Quote michellekovalik:

Lies, slander, distortion.

We're not your enemy, Michelle. Try relating to us as human beings, since you claim to be a humanist. Try treating us like people, not objects of disdain, and you'd be surprised at just how human we can be.

Hm-m-m?

michellekovalik's picture
michellekovalik 4 years 38 weeks ago
#25

I believe I have done enough to push back from yours and others lies, slander and distortion. I believe the facts and evidence stand for themselves. I trust the ability of most to sift through the garbage to find the truth, and for those who can't, don't or won't? That is not my problem.

I simply do not have the interest or time to go back through over 750 posts on a previous thread to identify every teeny tiny detail to defend or rebut.

I do apologize for becoming emotional at times, because the topic for me is personal. I did mention that on the thread. I most sincerely apologize.

The End

SueN's picture
SueN 4 years 38 weeks ago
#26

Things are getting out of hand again. Please focus on the issues, not each other. I am closing this thread.

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