About a year ago, I wrote an op-ed entitled Independence Day: “…With Liberty and Justice for All” http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/r-kenyatta/blog/2015/07/independence-day-%E2%80%9C%E2%80%A6with-liberty-and-justice-all%E2%80%9D In that op-ed, I reflected on the holiday and it’s contraindications for Black People in America.

Never will I say the “Pledge of Allegiance”.

Never.

Never will I “stand” for the “National Anthem”.

Never.

The last time I stood for the Star Spangled Banner or recited the “Pledge of Allegiance” was when I was in the police academy; I was 20 years old and a very different person then.

I have done neither since.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 prior to a pre-season NFL game against the Green Bay Packers, San Francisco 49er quarterback Colin Kaepernick caused a furor by refusing to “stand” for the National Anthem. I applaud Kaepernick for this gesture because, while it may not have seismic socio-political implications, it does send a message; and I hope more Black people get it.

A wise man once said: “a man that will stand for nothing, will fall for anything”.

Black people have been “falling” for anything a long, long time.

Martin Luther King, whom white folks seem to adore now (not so much when he was alive) said this: In a sense, we have come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir.

This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. So we have come to cash this check — a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice”.

Not much has changed Martin, aside from optics; the check is still bad.

As far as I am concerned, that flag stands for nothing other than the exploitation, enslavement, rape, murder, humiliation and genocide of my people. If you white boys want to get teary-eyed and place your right hand over your heart, more power to you as I kind of understand, in a perverted sense, how you might feel that way. However, try to come down off of your self-induced, self-righteous, Anglo Cognitive Dissonance driven, mythically enhanced intoxication called “Pat-Riot-ism” long enough to understand that it would be illogical for me to feel like you do. In fact, it would be indicative of a seriously abnormal psychiatric/psychological pathology.

Now wouldn’t it?

EYE, cannot stand for it, because I can see.

I cannot stand for it, because I can think and see.

WE must not stand for it.

Comments

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 46 weeks ago
#1

Kenyatta

"Never will I say the “Pledge of Allegiance”.

Never.

Never will I “stand” for the “National Anthem”.

Never."

My god man , you must have big balls. This is America where a politician can be crucified for not wearing a flag lapel pin. America of 'exceptionalism'. America were Boehner gets weepy at the though of pretty much anything American. America where there are more nationalistic crazies than i would suggest anywhere in the world.

Definately big balls my friend.

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 46 weeks ago
#2

Mr. Zap...opps! Did my loin cloth fall down? Thank you for your continued support, candor and eloquence. As I have told you before: steel sharpens steel.

Origslammer...outstanding piece, outstanding. I sent that to Brother Ghost who is also Muslim. I am atheist but I definitely appreciate the wisdom and intellect you exhibit. Few of us realize that our original religion was Islam. Christianity (celebrated by wearing a symbol of death) was part of the instrumentation of oppression, enslavement and domination. The problem, as I see it, is that so many of our people have become drunk on the white man's cyanide laced kool-aid. I'm sure he (NatTurnersGhost) will have something to add when the opportunity presents itself. Thank you for your support and enlightened mind. My main purpose is to let white, and Black, people know that Brothers like us exist. We do have a formidable Black intelligentsia in the United States of Arrogance and the sooner that white America reckons with that fact the better for all. Outstanding work.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#3

NEVER!

Whities must be insane if they think I'm going to stand up and thank them for kidnapping and brutalizing mine. Just shows you how twisted the majority of them are.

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#4

Keny-AlGhost: You can say you won't stand for the Star spangled Banner. Big deal. We have freedom in this country to do that, as long as you can deal with any consequences that follow from those who also are free to express their opinions.

Having resentments and anger towards someone or something does not hurt them. They mostly don't care. However, if one allows this anger to become an all consuming obsession, it actually can lead to intense anxiety, depression, and other mental disfunctions that skew their reality. They should consider a twelve-step program for their own well being.

Keny-Al-Ghost, you seem so obsessed with perceived slights and wrongs done to you and African Americans you are unable to see or acknowledge the progress this nation has made since its inception. There is no slavery, no Jim Crow, no laws that differentiate between races. The Star Spangle Banner is an ode to the same flag Union Men and Boys died under to put an end to slavery. If the Stars and Bars of the Confederacy are so symbilically offensive to African Americans they need to be removed from public areas, one woulfd think the Stars and Stripes should be recognized as the Banner of those that defeated the Rebel Flag.

You can do what you want. Do you really believe that people are waiting breathlessly to see if you sit or stand during the National Anthem? It seems that you like to run your ego and self-importance up the flag pole to be saluted by your handful of sock puppets and minions.

Colin Kaepernack is actually a comic example of a very confused individual. In previous years, Mr. Kaepernack stood up for the Star Spanged Banner without so much as a mention. Perhaps because things were going well for him. He was winning. Making tons of money and had endorsements. Dit police shootings and black poverty and the other problems in many black communities just start during this summer? Or is this second string millionaire simply an unhappy camper with lots of new resentments. If he was still starting and a popular favorite with the fans, I truly wonder if he would take a stand by sitting.

They say jokingly that a Conservative is a liberal who has been mugged. Is an "activist" a starting quarterback who has been benched?

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 46 weeks ago
#5

Kenyatta, I heard you on Thom's program today-EXCELLENT as usual and echoed by several. For Zapdam I agree, it's either big balls or crazy...and I mean that in the most complimentary of ways. If I were Black I definitely would not stand for the anthem. I don't do it being white because the U.S. is the cause of all kinds of atrocities around the world.

rs allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#6

You've got a lot to learn storm trooper.

If you want to learn you best get started with taking off those rose colored glasses, then reviewing your (our shared) history.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#7

Just read your piece on Independence Day 2015. Outstanding. Don't forget Thanksgiving. We're celebrating a day of the near genocide of the Native American population, the rape and pillage of people of color this country and then having the nerve to thanking G-d for the opportunity to do it. Not to mention the reality of the inslavement of another people to work that stolen parcel of land, built its infrastructure and never got paid for our troubles. As for the 400 yrs, this was a processing of conditioning, that is shaping the clay (character) of a people on both sides. One clay was shaped into that of a brute beast, the slavemaster the other was shaped into a submissive, nonthinking creature that thought freedom was to sit next to the slavemaster. The reason that you cannot reach the latter is they have been taught to reject their own, unless you look like the image of their Christ. I always though it odd that a people would long for a savior that looks the same as the man that just got through beating the hell out of them last week.

By the way, for your Dad "Semper-Fi" .... for me Always Faithful to the what's Right

Yes... the Marines were used as cannon fodder for this same slavemaster.

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 46 weeks ago
#8

Mr. Zap and Mzungu, let me make clear that I have been met with quite a lot of hostility as a result of my "not standing" (just as you can see from the Kaepernick furor). In fact, I am well known in my child's school district and have been very active in it over many years, When she was in fifth grade I was quite friendly with her Principal and one day, during an assembly, he noticed that I did not stand for the so-called "pledge"...neither did my child. Subsequently, he asked me about it and I explained it to him. He seriously seemed shocked. Luckily, he was a great admirer of mine (and I him) and we left that alone. However, I'd be dishonest if I told you that I have not received some really threatening looks and stares; of course, I have countermeasures in place should things go beyond that.

None of my children stand for the national anthem or recite the "pledge" (ala Hitler) and I think that is really the important thing: to ensure that our children are not bound by the collective ignorance and stupidity that is America. The only way that happens is through educated and enlightened parents. So, you can call it crazy, balls, moxy, etc. I'm just standing on the truth.

Brother Slammer, you are, indeed, correct pertinent to "Thanksgiving"...the ulimate of insults and jokes. Now, unlike "independence Day" I do celebrate "Thanksgiving" simply as a day to be thankful for my family and whatever else. However, I do that every day. As for the "Mayflower" and "Pilgrim" bovine feces, it's just that...bullshit. This is particularly poignant with me because my maternal grandmother was a native American (Cherokee) and married a Black man, she caught all kinds of hell. I want to thank you for contributing such lucid and intelligent comments to this dialogue. I was unfamiliar with you until today, but you are someone I am quite proud of.

Stay the course, my brother.

Bodhisattva's picture
Bodhisattva 1 year 46 weeks ago
#9

Mr. Kenyatta, you are sooooo well spoken. It doesn't matter black or white I just enjoy your smarts. I heard you on the show today like some others have mentioned and everytime I hear you speak I feel like ERic did when he told Thom a few days ago "That Kenyatta always brings something extra to the table" You are a great representative for thinking people of all stripes everywhere!!!!! and I support you whole heartedly. keep it comin!

jason13's picture
jason13 1 year 46 weeks ago
#10

An American hating muslim? I'm shocked!!

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#11

just heard about a Philadelphia Eagle player (undrafted free agent) who was going to take a "stand" by sitting during the national anthem this Sunday pre-season game.

His agent talked to him. He is now going to stand for the anthem. I can't imagine what his agent told him. Chuckle, Chuckle, Chuckle.

I'm thinking he was told to "make the team, get your contract in writing, THEN become a brave, uncompromising race warrrior". We'll see what happens.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#12

In response to jason13. A brief definition to help you understand the meaning of Muslim. It is an Arabic word that defines a natural disposition of the entire creation. Muslims means one that submits his will to that of the Creator. The earth, the sky, the birds , your cat or dog are all created by that one Creator, you call G-d. There is only One of Him. Since you are 13years old as your moniker suggest or you think with the mind of a 13 year old, you might be even more shocked to learn that your physical, anatomical body is still in its original form as Muslim from the time of your conception to the time your physical body dies and the person inside that shell of your body returns to that same Creator when called. You see young man your physical follows precisely the commands of its Creator. This means that you physical body is Muslim. The soul, spirit or intellect is the real jason13. It is housed inside that physical body. The flesh body is not jason13, the flesh body is jason13's vehicle painted a particular color on the outside that you travel in this physical world. So your heart, lungs, cellular maintenance and blood flow are not controlled by jason13. All those items are cared for per the instructions coded in jason13's DNA by its Creator. So you physical body is already in a state of Islam, or Muslim.
Everything in this creation submits its will to its Lord. Man is the only creature that has Free Will to believe in Him, or not. Yet that same Creator still provides the sustenance and maintenance of all His Creation. Thus the term Muslim.
Muslims hate the corrupt Business Model of Racism and Slavery that an element of this Great Country started as a way to do business for personal gain and profit. This entire website Thom Hartmann has been in the forefront of speaking against the financial, unjust, unequal system of corruption that has killed the true spirit of Democracy this Great nation was supposedly founded upon. They have turned this Democracy into a monstrosity created to rob the American masses of their good senses, their moral and spiritual compass, so they can pluck their pockets like financial sheep, which for them is the new form of slavery. DEBT.
Don’t believe that you are the new slave. Check you student loan, your auto loan, your cable bill or paycheck. Pray that you don’t have to use that $600.00 Epipen, or purchase a college textbook. These corrupt business limit your pay/benefits, but will let you purchase stuff made cheap in China on credit. These injustices are what every American should hate. If Jesus lived in our time he would tell you the same thing. Every fiber of his being was against what America has become.
Either you don’t watch Thom Hartman Tv or you hang around the Forum to make trouble for its listeners. So as a 13 year old you have some growing up to do inside your Muslims body.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#13

Yes My Brother... I understand. Were if not for my study of Al-Islam I would certainly be

a G-d fearing angostic. There is no such thing as Black or White people. We are human beings born with the same spirit and nature, residing in flesh bodies, flavored by the sun. Those labels BW are designed to create a divide and distraction. Giving a small group of people who reside over this madness the ability to rake the natural resources into their hands for material gain, while causing infighting amongst the masses based on skin color. The more we believe we are BW people the more we play into their scheme for control of the natural resources of the world and its wealth.

Just wanted to thank you for you insight and righteous indiganation against this madness.

Peace

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#14

I've heard you on TH, previous occasion, I feel you.... wanted to share an article I posted on TH forum with. Pointing to the Origins of Racism from a prespective that has gone overlooked or ignored. See Nov 25 ORIGINS OF RACISM by Origslammer1, me

As_Salaam_Alaikum

Peace be unto you

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#15

You're right Ghost they are insane! This pathology of a superior person based of skin color is the force that makes them Insane. Its a mindset that feeds a narrative that started as a business model, designed to give the idea to their people that their superior color is Divinly inspired, and that G-d is with them. This ideal gives them the mindset to rape the world, till the ground and subdue it as given in scripture. They are literally reading scripture mixed with a pagan mind that gives them an artificial humanity.

Peace be unto you

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#16

As-salamu alaykum Brother ORIGSLAMMER. I read your essay and posted it on my Facebook page. That is a great work brother. Islam became my religion many years ago when I was a child. As an adult I have never used drugs, drank or eaten meat. My dream is to someday complete the Hajj. I spoke to a brother at the Mosque a few weeks ago and he told me it changed his whole outlook on life. Everyone I know that has done the pilgrimage says the same thing. Welcome and nice job on the 13 year old fool playing with his mommas computer.

C-Section.....where you at? Big bad wolf took your ass to task huh? #6, Brother Al, why waste time with the inferior ones with inferior minds?

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#17

Origslammer 1). Muslims had slaves. Their two major sects are now killing each other. Their women are treated like property. Muhammed had his "Aisha" and his "pearl boys". That is also kind of slavery in itself.

It must be noted that Epipens and insulin treatments as well as other life-enhancing treatments for all types of diabetics came from the US and the West. Our universities are the best in the world, and our women can attend them, even if they have to buy their own textbooks. ( They can even DRIVE to school.)

American "masses" still do much beter than Islamic "masses" in terms of standard of living and freedoms.

A slave can't leave his situation. There are no debtors prisons in the US, no one forces one to take on credit card debt. You have freedom to emigrate from the US if that is ones wish.

That said, If someone wants to be a Muslim, or Christian, Jew, Buddist, Athiest, that's their business. I respect that. I believe we all worship the same God. Also, we don't kill apostates, jail them, or demand ostracism.

The US must have the only system of slavery that millions of immigrants are begging to be a part of.

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#18

rs You can either dwell in the past or thrive in the present. If you don't think things have changed immensely since slavery, and even the 60's, you choose to keep your head in a place where the sunshine of opportunity is not visible. :

Nat Turner: Inferior ones with inferior minds? That sounds racist to me.

Bodhisattva's picture
Bodhisattva 1 year 46 weeks ago
#19

TomD---I notice that you immediately start with attacking people that do not agree with your white supremacist viewpoint. You attack Muslims, Kaepernick, the author and others. You call their grievances "perceived" and "unjustified"...what planet are you on...don't they get internet or newspapers on that planet? I said this before, I think you are an old bigot trying to wax intelligent and you resent these few black men and women that speak out for themselves. Who the hell are you or I to speak for their very real experiences and feelings? You not only constantly insult them you insult intelligent white people too and create problems for those of us trying to fix things. Finally and if I may speak for NTG's #16 comment I can tell you that INFERIOR minds and people come in all varieties, you are living proof and unworthy of another keystroke.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#20

((Origslammer - -#13))
"There is no such thing as Black or White people. We are human beings born with the same spirit and nature, residing in flesh bodies, flavored by the sun. Those labels BW are designed to create a divide and distraction. Giving a small group of people who reside over this madness the ability to rake the natural resources into their hands for material gain, while causing infighting amongst the masses based on skin color. The more we believe we are BW people the more we play into their scheme for control of the natural resources of the world and its wealth."

Thank you, Origslammer. That rings true for me.
I appreciate your explanation of principles at the heart of your faith. It seems, at the root, people live, work, and fight for the same basic reasons. Only, we have lost our sense of working together, as parts of a larger body.

Instead, we work against each other, and the wheel turns. Who controls the wheel? I really am curious to know what Moses heard, the first time he went up the mountain, before the golden calf and the stone tablets. Can anyone help clarify that?

<<>> <<< >>> <<>>

Mr. Dorricot,

The people who stand with Mr. Kenyatta as brothers are not 'sock-puppets, they are people - fellow humans, in fact. If they speak with one voice, it is because they share the same concerns.

You assert their anger and pain are unjustified? The fact that progress has been made in some areas does not negate the reality that problems persist, and people survive with wounds that still bleed.

How does it serve healing to keep tearing the scabs off, opening the wounds, again and again? You step all over people with sharpened cleats on your way to the Winner's Circle, and walk away saying,

"peace" ...?

How coy.

<<>> <<< >>> <<>>

Is it America that is corrupt, or is it corrupt people and systems that use America as a vessel and a shield? Is it really like a testing ground, or a threshing floor?

We are in a time of immense change. So many have died, and will die ..., all of us in time ..., who survives? What spirit, what dream carries them forward ...?

I salute the dream of truth, justice and freedom. All who have given their lives for this country - in and out of uniform - have given it up for that dream.

How does America deserve that salute, today?

al3's picture
al3 1 year 46 weeks ago
#21

While I support the right of Kaepernick to not stand for the NA, I'm very skeptical of his motives. His motive is not noble; it's money. Anyone who follows the NFL knows Kaepernick, due to poor play the last 2 years, has fallen out of favor as an elite player in the NFL. He has also fallen out of favor with the 49'ers. In fact, he was benched last year for most of the season for another QB. And he projects to be on the bench this year. He has a massive contract, signed when everyone thought he would be an elite QB, and his pay is commensurate with an elite NFL QB. Problem is, Kaepernick never developed into an elite QB. At this point in his career, he's more of a "flash in the pan." NFL defenses figured out his weaknesses, exploited them and Kaep couldn't adjust like elite NFL QBs do. Thus he's expensive to be sitting on the bench.

It is well known that the 49'ers tried to dump Kaep this offseason, but there were no takers at his salary, which the acquiring team would have to pay. Kaep refused to reduce or renegotiate his salary. No matter that every NFL team has determined he isn't worth elite QB pay he gets now. So Kaep has 2 alternatives...sit and rot on the bench as a backup for the 49'ers, collect his massive paycheck, or renegotiate his contract, less money making him more attractive, then get cut or traded to a new team, and start afresh. Kaep wants neither. So Kaep creates a controversy that forces the 49'ers to dump him, AND in forcing the 49'ers to do this, forces them to pay his massive, elite QB salary, which makes Kaep extremely attractive for a new team to pickup, considering his massive salary will be paid largely by the 49'ers.

Kaep gets a new team, a chance to start somewhere else, AND keeps his elite QB contract, even though he has been exposed as a non-elite QB. That's why I believe Kaep is creating this controversy. I'm sure his agent has put him up to it. That explains why all of a sudden he has a problem with standing for the NA.

To me, this is what it's all about. It's a cynical money power play. There is nothing noble or courageous about what he's doing.

al3's picture
al3 1 year 46 weeks ago
#22

And the other thing is, if Kaep - or any other black activist-minded NFL players - really wanted to force change, make a statement, and "stick it to the (white) man," why don't they just quit the NFL and its owner club of old, white, entitled, fatcats...who I'd bet are overwhelmingly National Anthem standing right wingers...and start their own league? They have the power, after all. Look at what the whisper of a strike by black athletes did at the Univ. of Mizzou. The white power structure shook in their Allen Edmonds and gave the players what they wanted....heads rolled. What would the NFL or college football be without black athletes, and who would watch it? The value of a beer commercial would crater.

Not to mention, why do all these elite black football prospects overwhelmingly choose to DONATE - that's right, they play for nuttin', - their elite skills to enrich old Southern universities, and their old Southern college towns, and ol' Southern small town businessmen, who also are - trust me - rich, old, fat, white, right wingers? Where slavery/Jim Crow thrived till about 50 years ago, black athletes give their services -free of charge - to these communities who wouldn't have let them in the back door 50 years ago.

Now....THAT would be courage, not some p*ssant drop in the bucket of not standing for the N.A.

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 46 weeks ago
#23

Bodhisattava, KALLEN...thank you both for such supportive and thoughtful words. I always enjoy your partcipation and contributions, especially those from my more enlightened white brothers and sisters...I just wish there were more of you.

Brothers Allen, Ghost and our newest Brother SLAMMER, always an honor to have you Brothers churning and causing discomfort to those who need to be made uncomfortable. By the way, has anybody seen or heard from Brother Foe?

Al3 Thank you for your contribution as well; however, be mindful that Kaepernick is a young man. Further, questioning his "courage" I find specious at best. I can tell you as one that has not stood for the National Anthem nor recited the "Pledge" for thirty years that, depending on the venue, it takes a great deal of courage. There have been more than a few times where I thought sparks might start flying (literally). Given the national skewering Kaepernick is taking and the atmosphere of virulent white supremacy in the country, I find his actions quite "courageous". Moreso than a lot of cowards that come on these websites and hide behind fictitious names in this amorphous mass of electronic nothingness called cyberspace. I can tell you that I am a vastly different person today than I was 30 years, 20 years, 10 years (or ten weeks) ago. I think of that young, idealistic, fresh out of Loyola, cocky police recruit that voted for Ronald Reagan and I would not know that dude if he slapped me in the face, for things have happened in my life that have forced personal reconfiguration and, thusly, changed my world view...this is called growth. Things happen in the course of one's life that spark illumination, maturity, anger, and even sometimes resentment...but all result in change. In fact "anger" can be an incredible catalyst for change both within and without the individual. A lot of Black people that would not normally rise up are rising up..."Sign 'O The Times" as Prince would say. I think it rather cynical to suggest that this young man has ulterior motives because he does something today he didn't do yesterday. If that's the case, then we are all frauds if we change. And the alternative to change and evolution is death; spiritual, intellectual, psychological and otherwise.

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#24

Bhoddisatvah: What you perceive are "attacks" are merely responses to unsubstantiated attacks on this society, white persons, Christianity, or whatever the grievance flavor of the day is from those who are self-important, perpetual whiners.

Lets investigate these attacks you claim I've initiated:Origslammer one contributed a diatribe critical of those who worship christ, as the one who looks like the ones beating them. Also, he criticises rape and abuse by white persons and gives this convoluted comparison between student loans, paychecks, and slavery. Just needed to respond to origslammer that his major prophet Muhammed had slaves, and also his "Aisha and Pearl Boys". Not an attack, but a RESPONSE to an attack.

Kaepernick to me is a hypocrite at best, as he stood up for the national anthem when his career was going well, and he was popular. Now that he has been benched for poor play and the fact he did not properly rehabilitate his dead arm, he is now an activist? I stand by my opinion of him as another resentful million dollar adolescent lashing out. Just another way of saying " Waaaahhhh".

The author makes him self fair game as he is always directing his racist, angry screeds (mixed of course with a heaping helping of self-importance) at white persons, this nation, blacks that he feels are not angry enough, society, the police, politicians that are not to the left of Marx, Western people, ...ad (humorous) nauseum. My responses to these tantrums are in the same vein as his. Only rational.

Who am I to speak out against this crap? Someone who is absolutely entitled to do so, especially when the targets of his ejaculate are white persons Western people, and this country, of which i am a citizen. I don't have to be black to know that slavery and lynching don't occur still in this country, or that opportunity id denied strictly due to skin color.

I believe that you are a low self-esteem apologist for your very existence who gets validation in self-flagellation.

By the way, I am still waiting for your dozen examples of genuine lynchings in this country over the past decade. OK, I'll settle for a handful. Then you can go back to congratulating yourself on how (wonderfully) progressive you are.

K Allen: It is Keny-Al-Ghost and others that do not want the scabs to heal.They are the ones who perpetually bring up events and complaints of the past as if they were present today.Re-read the last part of Kenyatta's blog. No reasonable, sentient person with any sense of reality would believe what he is whining about is happening today.

I would love to see the scabs heal, but those of the writer's ilk keep opening theirs, like a "cutter" that does so to relieve pathological anxiety.

Plus, unlike other reasoned, thoughtful bloggers, Kenyatta, to my knowledge, focuses only on race, and how oppressed his people are and how the "pink people" are responsible for all the ills in the world. He is a one trick pony. And his sock puppets surface only to attack those who simply disagree with their "master", many times in ways so crude, unimaginative, and profane that they are unintentionally amusing.

peace

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#25

Great comments Tom Dorricott. I have about 30 pages of replies for you... working to get them down to about 5. I have a few answers for you already still working on the others.

Again, you guys are not watching the Thom Hartman TV show.

..........

1Origslammer 1). Muslims had slaves. 2-Their two major sects are now killing each other. 3- Their women are treated like property. 4-Muhammed had his "Aisha" and his "pearl boys". That is also kind of slavery in itself. Working ON

It must be noted that Epipens and insulin treatments as well as other life-enhancing treatments for all types of diabetics came from the US and the West. Our universities are the best in the world, and our women can attend them, even if they have to buy their own textbooks. ( They can even DRIVE to school.)

Reply - The Thom Hartmann’s entire show is based on the principles that all prophets & messengers taught. That being a fair and equal treatment of people from all walks of life here in America and abroad. As Muslims were are to support noble efforts like this show, that speaks towards a system of putting the righteous moral human beings in charge as leaders of the society as opposed to corrupt corporations, politicians and charlatans that have taken over this country through a process of corrupting and rolling back some of the good laws spoken of in the US Constitution.

American "masses" still do much beter than Islamic "masses" in terms of standard of living and freedoms.
Reply - yes in terms of a standard of living that was only made possible by the fruit of slave labor - a labor for which no compensation was given for that labor, and the promise of “ Freedom and Justice for All” which was never given and extended to the descendants of those slaves. You forget that America was built on the blood of those slaves.

A slave can't leave his situation. There are no debtors prisons in the US, no one forces one to take on credit card debt.
Reply - Did you know that the city of Ferguson Mo., have been using Debtors Prison against African American community for years late as 2016, as are other communities to save money on maintenance of their jails, making the people work off their fines. This is the spark that blew up that City, not just the murder of Micheal Brown.

Here are a few these links from noted Media :

NPR:
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/02/08/384332798/civil-rights...
Headline: Civil Rights Attorneys Sue Ferguson Over 'Debtors Prisons'

Washinington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/town-near-ferguson-mo...
Hedline: Town near Ferguson, Mo., agrees to pay $4.7 million to settle ‘debtors prison’ case

Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ferguson-municipal-court-federal-civ...
Headline: Ferguson Considers Settling Suit Over ‘Debtors Prison’ Abuses
......................................................................................

That said, If someone wants to be a Muslim, or Christian, Jew, Buddist, Athiest, that's their business. I respect that. Also, we don't kill apostates, jail them, or demand ostracism.

Al-Islam & the Holy Qur’an agrees with everything that you stated in this paragraph.

I love this feature of America. Where you and I can have our views, our different religions and belief, and no one is shooting at each other. In my expericence I've learned the Allah gives truth to people from all walks of life. These pieces of truth are like pieces of a puzzle. I can get a truth puzzle piece from a Jewish, Christian, Atheist or Agnostic and use that truth to help me see the picture in the puzzle. And puzzles are best appreciated and more fun as a family unit of human beings.

The US must have the only system of slavery that millions of immigrants are begging to be a part of.
Reply - Immigrants are fleeing from their own homes which we destroyed or orchestrated as a results of American Corporate greedy culture of Colonialism, in the name of spreading Freedom and Democracy. Those greedy CEO used, the Military, our young soldiers as so much cannon fodder, as the tip of the spear to do their dirty work of removing the leaders of those countries who get in the way of their plans to come into their country to steal the natural resources indigenous to those people. Many of those leaders they put in place and use them up like puppets on strings.
They used my fellow Marines, Navy Seals, Special Forces, Army and other units as the tip of the spear, then give those soldiers the shaft of that same spear when it comes to providing them the resources they need to recover from their wounds, missing limbs, and broken lives. It hurts me deeply to see a homeless Vet on the streets.

Christians were supposed to turn their weapons into plow shares. Show people in those lands how to develop their natural resources, help them build their culture, then do trade with them. Not bully, demonize and terrorize people that we don't like or understand

As a Christian nation your were to follow the teachings of Jesus, not worship the man as a son of G--d, when the original wording was a Sun of G-d as in a Light so you can see where you are going in the dark.

Every boy scout knows that if you are in the dark of the night you shine or hold your lantern or flashlight before you to see where you are going. You did not do that with Jesus, a man and a prophet.

You stared at your Light and became blinded by it.

- google and download -
War Is a Racket is the title of two works, a speech and a 1935 short book, by Smedley D. Butler, a retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two-time Medal of Honor recipient. Based on his career military experience, Butler frankly discusses how business interests commercially benefit (including war profiteering) from warfare. He had been appointed commanding officer of the Gendarmerie during the United States occupation of Haiti, which lasted from 1915 to 1934.
Smedley Butler - “War is a Racquet” or see link below
https://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

Reply -The Arabs had slaves and some slaves had slaves, a tradition that was certainly carried over with their conversion to Al-Islam . Revelation came to the backwards Arabs who were at the top of their food chain in paganism. You name it they did it, much like America is in this day and time. The biggest problem they had was some 365 g-ds worshiped in the Kaaba. The revelation Allah sent to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) brought over time the freedom of their slaves who were not all of African origin. Slave owners were to feed and dress their slaves as they did. dress them the same as they dressed and to pay for the freedom themselves or grant the slave the means to earn their freedom. One such slave was Bilal, who was granted his freedom by Abu Bakr, and had the honor of becoming the first Muezzin to call prayer before the Prophet (SAW).

2:177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces towards East or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the G-d-fearing.

You are correct in the problem with the Sects.
All religious groups, Judaism, Christian, Muslim have broken the Commands of Allah. This sectarian violence is the result of breaking Allah’s Command and the punishment.

Every major problem that man incurs, he brings that punishment on himself. Pre-Islam: The warring tribes had been united under the banners of Al-Islam by Allah through prophet Muhammad. They were commanded by Allah not to break themselves up into sects.

HQ - 23:52. And verily this Brotherhood of yours is a single Brotherhood, and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other). 23:53. But people have cut off their affair (of unity), between them, into sects: each party rejoices in that which is with itself. 23:54. But leave them in their confused ignorance for a time.

This was a Command from Allah,of what not to do, as was the Command from Allah in the Bible against creating graven images of Divine, which spawned Racism. If the 1st Commandment of the 10 Commandments, the most important is voided, the other commands are voided and fall off like dominos.

Example:

As a father, if you warn your children not to go into the neighbors yard to steal apples off his tree because he will shoot you with rock salt, and your child comes home crying with a butt full of rock salt, you already know where they been. Your warning to them was ignored, thus the rock salt. Well our Creator gives mankind warnings through prophecy and revelation given through the prophets/Messengers. He warns us not to do things that we’re just about to do. So we reap the results of our actions. The Muslim world over there is suffering from their act of breaking Allah’s Command. As the West is and has been suffering from breaking that Command of creating graven images of Divine. Racism is a Sin and a corrupt business model like Usury is a corrupt form of trade, forbidden in all Religious texts.
Allah did not create Black or White people, He created human beings. Black & White are labels used to create a divide within the human family for profit margins by the Elites.

Just wanted to let you know. I wasn't ignoring your inquiry - just need to condense my reply a little. The bold Workin on Items still in progress,

Peace

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 46 weeks ago
#26

As everyone here can see, Dorricott is exactly what most here have described him as. Instead of being capable of writing anything of interest and having others respond to him, he goes around stalking someone else because his jealousy of a black man is too much to bear. Everyone else has it wrong but him...typical white racist attitude. He uses all kinds of of vile stereotypes and expects someone to not put their foot in his behind along with expecting that other white people are as retarded as he is. Not in my name you pathetic little racist twit and that's coming from a white man Dorricott. Razzle dazzle us some more with your ignorance and inane offal. By the way, in case you didn't know several WHITE people, some veterans like myself stated on Thom's show TODAY that they would not stand for the anthem either and cited some of the same things the author does, just as many on this thread have done. I guess they are all "sock puppets" too. Helllllo...anybody home?

I've seen Kenyatta, I've heard Kenyatta, I read Kenyatta. I haven't heard Thom mention anything about you or anyone that is on his show mention you. I have heard that happen with Kenyatta for a loong time and you are an outright liar because Kenyatta has written on many topics. Often his articles appear in the newsletter/Sue's daily stacks (how often have you done that Tom? If you know how to use a computer then you probably know that all you need to do is put his name in the search field. If he's a one trick pony you are a no trick ass who can only serve the purpose of trolling someone elses opinions that you disagree with. I haven't seen you and I sure as hell haven't seen anything you have written that wasn't kindling. What a loser. I'm with Bodhisattva, you aren't worth another keystroke.

Hour Two: We Have Advice for Anthony Weiner's Weiner...Article: "Colin Kaepernick protests national anthem and US flag because he won't 'show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color'" by Cork Gaines.Article: "Fortune 500 Companies Hold a Record $2.4 Trillion Offshore" by CTJ.Speech: "I Have a Dream" by Martin Luther King, Jr., 28 August 1963, at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C.Article: "I Will Not STAND for That" by R. Kenyatta.Article: "1968 Olympics Black Power salute" by Wikipedia.Article: "Colin Kaepernick" by Wikipedia.Article: "Anthony Weiner sexted busty brunette while his son was in bed with him" by Rebecca Rosenberg and Bruce Golding.Article: "Huma Abedin says she’s leaving Anthony Weiner" by David K. Li.Site: The Alliance of White Anti-Racists Everywhere – Los Angeles (AWARE-LA). Talk Media News Segment:
- Ellen Ratner, Bureau Chief

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#27

Mzungu.3000 & Bodhisattva... Thank you!. You guys are right on. I really intended to try to reply to Dorricott.. thinking that I may be able to shine a little light in fornt of him to help him in his mind of darkness. You never heard of me before because of my first encounter into what was called, back in the day Chat Rooms.

I was new to computing and the internet in the days of dialup. I got my first email and wanted to talk to people in the chat room. I am the first person to break the sound barrier coming out of a chat room. I knew then that there was no intelligent life in the chat room, hadn't been back in one since. But this forum here has given me a double think because of the level of sharp minds, in this Forum has been enlightening, and inspiring. You guys, all of you are great.

I think therefore I will not waste another keystroke on Tom Dorricott and save my thoughts for human beings only.

Thanks guys for the Q

Tom Dorricott's picture
Tom Dorricott 1 year 46 weeks ago
#28

Mzungu; Another sock puppet I see. I've put his name in a search field, and all I got was his being on the Thom Hartman showa few times. Tell me, what book(s) has he published? Magazine articles? As far as I can google, he is a self-appointed celebrity in a small pond. If R Kenyatta goes by a different name, let me know, because there's very little under his of any accomplishment. Talk show heroes and bloggers are dime a dozen entertainment, not much more.

I respond to those in the same manner as they merit. If you got out of your drawer more, you would know that Zapdam and i disagree on many things, but our responses are very cordial and fact based. Other bloggers have found that I do not engage in any type of "attacks" unless it is in response to angry, resentment-fueled nonsense.

I think what torques you and other "melanic man moonies" up is that you can't seem to counter my responses effectively. Except with childish insults. And I'm not the only one. Anyone who has the audacity to disagree with such "genius" elicits attacks of such petulant keening that they are funny.

Angry screeds deserve firm responses. You and Bhodhisattva are of the same needy ilk. . "you aren't worth another keystroke" one says, one says other crap.

Well. I'm just devastated. I feel oppressed. Even enslaved by your angry words. You have destroyed my self esteem to the point that I am so full of self hatred I can't function. And its all your fault. ( Hey, maybe I'm getting the hang of this. Its great to blame any shortcomings I have on others. And who are you to say I'm wrong.? You haven't experienced MY pain! ). Hey! Maybe I'm starting to get the hang of this grievance stuff. It obviously doesn't take brains or facts, just those naive enough to worship my self importance. When do the reparations for my pain come in? Gotta get paid, hey, hey!!!! Now to buy some ugly socks. As an entourage. Pink Lives Matter!

peace

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#29

As-Salaam_Alaikum Nat

Great handle.. go caught up in trying to give a response to TD. Decided not to bother with it anymore, thanks to Mzungu.3000 & Bodhisattva, along with the sentiment of the forum. Again thanks guys.

I haven't made the Hajj either but still intend to make that trip. It's a lifechanging experience as described. I grew up in a Holiness Church before Allah bless me to realize my true origin. I could never thank Allah enough for making me open to Al-Islam. So I'm quite pleased to be on what I call Allah's installment plan. This is a debt I enjoy paying to Allah for His Guidance, and look to doing so as long as Allah permits.

Kenyatta mention that he knew another Muslim. Good to meet all you and the guys here.

ASA

Oh.. to k. allen

America is not corrupt, there happens to be a bad element that has hijacked America and its political leadership to their ends as ISIS has done with Al-Islam. Every nation has good and bad people in it. No counrty in and of itself is corrupt.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#30

Brother SLAMMER all praise due to Allah the most merciful and benificent. Thank you for appreciating the spirit of my handle. Oddly enough there is a movie coming out about Nat Turner that has been stupidly named "Birth of a Nation". Birth of A Nation originally was about white supremacy (one of the highest grossing films of all time) I'm not sure what made them do what they did, but I find the timing of the release strange and Kenyatta and I have had many a conversation about it. Just so you know, Brother Kenyatta and I grew up together in Los Angeles and since neither of us have brothers we became brothers. I am the godfather of his youngest child.

It is great to have you here among the brothers and sisters. You are a very smart person and I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts particularly being Muslim. I don't know if you have met Brother Al yet, but he is like the elder here for the brothers and a smart man to the tenth power. Far as the one riddled with stupidity that is just an inferior being with an inferior mind like I said before (brother Al calls him Storm Trooper and we all adopted that name for him). A relic of a time when pink skin meant something without much else to go with it and I do mean RELIC. Most of us, especially the three or four Black people here but intelligent white people as well simply ignore the ignoramus like you do a two-year old that shits his pants, reaches inside, puts the feces in his mouth and throws a tantrum because someone else has a toy that they want. I will say this though, I think KALLEN is more correct than incorrect in saying that America is corrupt just like it always has been soon as the pink people showed up.

ISLAM is peace and peace be unto you brother.

P,S. stormtrooper---I know you are desperate for someone that tolerates you and you can kiss MapleLeaf's ass all you want but dig this---MapleLeaf is a (Canadian) white boy, and he stands with other white boys. You think by mentioning "Zapdam" that means something......don't mean shit homie. If you knew your dumbass from a hole in the ground, you would know that last year there was a great big dust-up with Zapdam. Zapdam stood up for a racist white girl...that's right...the same conduct you can't stand in us. Just like you stick together so will we criteria being intelligence which you lack. Zapdam said a lot of bold stuff but when the dust settled we admired the body of work and courage that Zapdam had and gave him a pass. And THAT only came as a result of Brother Kenyatta who cajoled us and lobbied for Zap. Zap so much your buddy.... he knows a lot about Kenyatta...I understand they communicate privately as well. Kenyatta challenged your sorry ass and you backed down like the coward you are, offering to use Zapdam as a clearing houuse. On top of all of that Zapdam is probably one of Kenyatta's biggest fans and has said so numerous times on these threads. Matter of fact that statement that you made such a big deal about "legions" of followers....comes from your buddy Zapdam....ask him. When Zapdam was being treated unfairly THE BROTHERS stood up for him. Apparently somebody had some clout somewhere and the situation got better. Zapdams pink brothers and sisters left him hanging. Point is if Mapleleaf is stupid enough and his whiteness means enough for him to forsake the Brothers for the likes of you that's on him and happy damn trails. I doubt though that MapleLeaf is that stupid because like Bodhisattva mentioned you have no skills...no intelligence...no body of work showing courage or anything else...MapleLeaf does and we have been around here for a spell fool. Now "ass" as Mzungu correctly described you, mark this moment down because like the rest of the chorus this is my last keystroke addressing your idiocy....from now on talk to the hand.

Helen Willis 1 year 46 weeks ago
#31

In the early 1980's I worked as a photographer at Grossinger among other places. The 369th Association used to hold their reunions there. The younger fellows would lift the wheel chair bound men to a standing position when "Lift Every Voice" and "The Stars Spangled Banner" were sung.

They were the most honorable Americans I ever met and you dishonor them. For that you are utterly disgusting. You are not worthy to lick their feet. I can just about guarantee you they would to a man agree.

And before any of you write back, you look up New York's pride, the 369th. And for God's sake, be ashamed!

Bodhisattva's picture
Bodhisattva 1 year 46 weeks ago
#32

Helen I suggest you and those like you start your needed debriefing here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies_My_Teacher_Told_Me

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#33

As-Salaam-Alaikum Nat

The Media uses science of human nature against the masses, they keep before the eyes of the public the same images, same lies, and sound bytes (tech), on a regular basis like clockwork of a made up holiday. Then those images become in the minds of the masses a reality, a perception, that in their mind becomes the truth. All you have to do is give the public old regurgitated ideas, recycle those lies and false beliefs enough times and refresh them for the next generation. Then this extends their hold over the masses into the next generation. It is no accident that "This Birth of a Nation", is polished off and shined up as a new experience. This reinforces in the minds of the public their narrative. This remake of Tarzan King of the Jungle serves the same purpose. It portrays a Superior Flesh Image in an hostile environment taking over that jungle as its Lord. Those images served them very well in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. It is a proven science an is very effective. It is an insidious form of suggestion. This is why if Human beings are not standing Upright in their Moral nature, which is Quiyam (the process of standing Upright), they will fall down to corruption in that same moral nature. Falling down to the pursuit of material things, which is symbolized as the ground which in scripture is describes as the domain of the Serpent. The Satan's (Serpent) speciality is to move along the ground, the problem with being on the ground is there are mud, muck and mire that he has to navigate through to get to where he is going. In other words if humanity is not growing upwards in their spiritual, moral, and intellectual development, they will grow downwards towards the ground, in the muck and mire. Then that same process of not standing up or growing upwards becomes what is described in scripture as the Fall from the Garden of Eden. The Serpent wants humanity down there with him, and not looking up towards their real domain. Which is that of the Creator.

This process of corrupting the morality of humanity, makes the American public easy pickings for their schemes of corruptions to continue. Keep in mind corruption is a business model.

Visual aid:
I grew up in a time when there was one television & telephone in the home. There were telephone boxes on most corners. This meant one phone bill, one Television for the whole family which meant you only paid for that TV once, unless the repair man came who in some cases would repair the TV or half-repair, so he would have to return and charge another fee. The trick was to eventually get you to buy a new TV. They learned that if they got rid of the free airwaves, and move the American Public into the arena of pay tv, cable that this was a cash cow. The advertisers used to pay to let you watch TV, along with the Govt that regulated what you could watch as long as you got to see their Ads, as sponsors.
Long story short.
Now a days, each household has at least one Flat Screen in every room, each TV cost money. Every person in the house has their own Cell phone Bill some have two or more. Now the average American family is paying more to watch nothing but Ads on TV, and 5 phone bills for each home, unless you have a special plan.
This entire process is based on firing up you sensitivities, your emotions, and your appetites which is your desires for the newest, the latest, and the greatest, new trend or gadget. This means that you will spend more money to keep up. Especially if you put it on Credit, and interest comes with Credit.
This firing up of the desires, appetites is called consumerism. This is a process of trying to keep the belly full. The problem with the belly is that the more you fill it the bigger the appetite grows the harder it becomes to satiate it. That is to satisfy it.
These crooked CEO’s know this, and even have a special name fo their scheme and they make fun of the American Public. They call their products, Consumer Commodities, and they call the American public Consumers. A play on the idea of setting you on fire.

This is a process of Firing up the appetite for material things, that are cheaply made in foreign lands, cheap labor in foreign lands which deny the American Public a living wage, which gives them increased dividends for their offshore bank accounts. So they have great incentive to insure that their profit margin is not jeopardized by the next generation growing a Brain. This entire process would not be possible if the American Public were thinking for themselves and not being manipulated by the Media. So America as a country is just the name of the country. The leadership that controls the narrative is corrupt and use the knowledge of arts and science corruptly to do their work, not the country.
As-Salaam-Alaikum

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#34

Bodhisattva...wow! Brother Kenyatta gave me James Loewen's book about five years ago. An excellent suggestion by you for the lemmings like Hell-In. On the other hand I don't think they want to know they have been lied to, they like believing the lies because to rethink them requires them to give up their mental laziness. Which takes me to you brother SLAM.

As-Salaam-Alaikum. Not much to say...nobody can argue the facts you laid down. Brilliant and point well taken. Just so you know, I texted Brother Kenyatta about your post...he's at work now but I told him he had to read it because sometimes he doesn't keep up with the threads.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#35

As-Salaam-Alaikum -Bodhisattva

perfect timing on the link to Lowens Book, plan to DL from Amazon as a Kindle to add to my reading list. Thanks for this aditional piece of the puzzle.

ASA

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#36

Peace be unto you .. k.allen
You are correct. The reason people fight for the same thing is because we're cut from the clothe of the same spirit. That baby spirit that you see in the newborn is a powerful sign from the Creator of that spirit. Each baby cries the same, sounds the same, and acts the same inside their flesh bodies as they come here from Divine with the same spirit nature. The baby doesn't cry in Japanese, or Chinese, or English, they just cry. The only difference is their skin color, which is not the measure of the baby. We would all embrace and protect each child in the viewing room of newborns as if they were our own, regardless of their color. It’s only after the world, the society that baby is born into, begins to shape their character away from that pure innocent baby nature given by Divine to the child even in the womb. Meaning their clay (Character) becomes shaped by something other than what was given to them from their birth. Our Lord and Creator, builds into the child a strong spirit to resist those changes, but if that baby clay, is impacted enough by those forces, this baby nature gets changed into something other than what the Creator gave it originally. The corrupt leaders that I’ve been pointing out know how to use the knowledge of human nature to effect a change in the nature of that child, through a process of word manipulation science called propaganda. They use labels to separate the people which creates a divide withing the races, and label one race bad, the other good, another lazy, to pit them against each other. These sound bytes are repeated over, and over, and over.... to convince the mind that what is being said about someone they don’t like is true. It becomes more effective especially if that person makes a mistake, the name calling of that person becomes a reality in your mind.
For example, Trump often shouts out, Lying Hillary. Every human beings makes mistakes in judgement. Trumps followers will repeat, Lying Hillary as well because it gets stuck in their heads like the silly jingles we get from the TV commercials we heard a thousand times that won’t go away. Trump is using the same science that TV commercials use to get people to buy their products. So the baby’s clay is impacted by those sound bytes as surely as if I took come clay putty and shaped that putty into a ball, a triangle, or a square. The problem with clay is the once that shape is given to the clay, the clay retains its shape until someone or something else comes and reshapes that clay into something else. If the clay gets hardened, that is loose it’s water, it will remain in the last shape given it. Water is scripture is a symbol of the moral nature in the human being. This is what keeps ones clay pliable. The commercial world, knows that they can remove the water from your clay, by getting you heated up, angry and upset which makes people do crazy things. This is called a loss of Moral Compass, you water removed from you clay. In the real world of pottery, Clay pots are put into an oven to harden the clay, once shaped. This causes the water in the clay to evaporate. The term hard hearted applies. This is what they want human beings to become. If you become hard hearted you become their best friend and defender. This is a process that turns Human Beings into Beast of Prey. You see the other word for Human Being is Homo-Erectus, meaning man standing UPRIGHT. It is no accident the were mostly composed of Water. It is a symbol of Morality. Upright is a sign of Moral, Spiritual, Intellectual capacity in Human Beings to stand upright. Not just the physical level, but on the Spiritual level. These are the levels that Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Prophet Muhammad represented. These are levels within reach of any one of us in our human form here on earth. You see all the prophets regardless of their ethnicity represents one brotherhood from Allah and are sent to the world as examples of conduct to follow, not as men to be worshiped.

k.Allen
I too would love to have heard the conversation of Moses on that Mountain. But we only have a report of what was given in the what is called the 10 commandants. I believe they are actually 12 which in scripture refers to a complete cycle or the leadership. So if mankind breaks the First Command on the Tablet, the other commands will get broken as well.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#37

Origslammer,

Thank you for the insight. I have heard there is but one human race, not separate black and white races. Would it be more relevant to speak of different breeds within the human race?

Mr. Dorricott.

You appear to be very well informed. Are you familiar with the myth of Icarus? I hear what you're saying insofar as dwelling on an oppressive dynamic can keep it in place ... and sure, transcend and carry on ... Clearly, we all do that in our own way, in the time it takes - not all the same.

Who can deny certain progress has been made in America? People come here from all over the world to be a part of it. The point is, I think, this brand of progress comes at great expense - with outstanding debt to be paid - in far more than monetary terms.

So I question, has America kept her promises? Does she honor her treaties - ever? Who influences that, decisively?

Again, I ask, is it America that is corrupt, or is it corrupt people and systems that use America as a vessel and a shield?

..., or both? ((It really is a threshing floor, I think.))

I would rather hear the complaints than stifle them. How else are we to know our problems well enough to solve them? Suppress the symptom, conceal the wound.

'Pathological anxiety' would be symptomatic of deeper distress. How are you helping the 'cutter' by taking out your own blade and slicing a few for yourself - on them? In a way, these 'whiners' you lump into one are fly fishing - their insults invite yours, clearly.

So, what do you accomplish with your own insults? Is there a way for you to argue your case without taking the bait and hauling the conversation further downstream?

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#38

KALLEN---while you pink people pontificate on the what if's and why for's sitting under the MAGNOLIA trees chewing blades of grass, here's a dose of reality.

http://rollingout.com/2016/09/01/white-racist-gang-leader-kills-black-te...

Now while you chewing on that grass, or smoking it pontificate on the last time a Black person has committed the same act on one of yours.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#39

Nat, I don't mean to pontificate. No argument can justify that kind of blatant disregard for life (not to mention disrespect for the individual.) on top of that, what recourse do people have when official 'authorities' are in bed with extreme fascist elements that secure racist dynamics?

I see no easy solutions.

This world is full of sickness. People are compelled by fear wearing the face of pride.My question would be, what to do - how best to invite health and well-being to the ailing body/soul of humankind.

Suggestions?

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 46 weeks ago
#40

KAllen, I realize your question is directed towards Brother Ghost (NTG) and though I do not have an "easy solution" I do believe that most of the "sickness" in the world is generated by "western culture" (white folks). You may be aware that, quite literally, the white man brought sickness and disease to North America and its people upon his arrival. Therefore, I think that the onus is on "western culture" to adjust itself to the world's majority. That would mean a cessation of greediness in terms of the world's resources and resultant damage to both other humans and the planet, a cessation of the bloodlust coined as "war" (the reality is if you took "western civilization" out of the picture, especially the United States, the world would be mostly at peace) and, lastly, the demythicization of world history and events.

Now, what do you think is the likelihood of any of that occurring without upheaval and bloodshed?

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#41

... Not much. Look at the world - for so long now. Same ol' sh!t, over and over again. So, when do we get to turn the page?

Would the problems go away if you just get rid of western culture, especially the USA? I do question that. I don't know enough to make that assessment any more than I honestly can say I know America is the Greatest Nation On Earth. How can I possibly know that, with so little exposure to other nations and cultures?

I do know America has been good to me. I hear what you say, together with what I have seen, and I have to validate that I catch a break where others do not. If it's not proof of 'white privilege', it is evidence of extreme inequity.

Still, I maintain the archetype of 'The White Man' and 'The American Dream' are like baited hooks for those who are hungry enough to bite ... It is a testing ground, like a threshing floor, sorting wheat from chaff, as generations progressively reach for that brass ring ... I'm in no position to argue politics/economics. I do know there are so many wonderful people in this world (black, white, full spectrum). I have to trust a way will open, somehow.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#42

KALLEN----I've been thinking about your question and unless there is some way to force people to respect each other I see no solutions. What are yours?

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#43

I don't know for anyone other than myself, Nat - and I'm never too sure of that.

I do agree, respect is key - even more than, and before respect for ourselves, and others - respect for life itself. How do you force that? My experience tells me application of force invites opposition. I tend to seek the path of least resistance.

As you have noted, our experience in life is so different, our methods of coping will vary accordingly. Some will say to start a movement, resist oppression, hate your designated enemy.

I say everything is in motion - it all comes around. I reach for the most fluid, harmonious way to move with currents that surround, in ever-changing circumstance.

As I said, I take it one breath at a time ((truly, this is all we have, all we are)). I feel that every one of us has this in common. Who is given more than one breath at a time, anyway?

So, what does any one do with that one breath? Do we honor and serve the source of that breath?

It may be, so long as people accept war as a solution, we will have war. As long as people are so disassociated from the heart of life that pulses within every living thing, we will fear and hate each other, somehow convinced we can solve the problem by degrading, raping, murdering 'the other'.

That really seems twisted to me. Maybe the current industry of war is designed to channel people according to their nature, and keep a lid on the whole thing. Maybe the purpose in that would be to secure peace and prosperity in at least those parts of the world that participate in the Matrix.

I don't know about all that. I just do what I can to live decently, contribute where I can without spreading my own poison, and walk in peace.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 46 weeks ago
#44

IN THE NAME OF GOD MOST GRACIOUS MOST MERCIFUL.

PEACE!, STOP FIGHTING! STOP CUSSING, STOP FUSSING - HEADS UP -EYES OPEN

It hurst my heart to hear intelligent & knowledgeable human beings looking for answers, not finding the answers they seek.

This is not an attempt to convert.... only to enlighten,

If you have the heart and are sincere this is for you only, some of you will get it others not so much.

paste this link below in your browser - I recommend listening to this more than once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNaDSSi5YvA

Again this is not to convert anyone... this is for research only

Salaam - Peace be unto you

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 46 weeks ago
#45

Islam Brother SLAM. Islam KALLEN. KALLEN---I think I understand your response, but it would be cool for you to tell me more in less lofty terms. People in this world regardless of age, race, creed or religion want RESPECT. All else is subordinate to RESPECT---think about it. If the U.S. respected Islam would there be a war on terror as it is called? If white people showed black people respect would the current situation exist? If we respected our old and aged would so many of them die alone with no one to care about them? If we respected children would we have so many broken adults and the drug use and abuse that goes with it and perpetuates itself for generations? Take every conflict in the world and society and add respect and tell me it would still exist. You can't do it.

Brother SLAM, just an FYI---there are times when certain words convey certain emotions and feelings. Sure you know that the Quran was written in Arabic and there are words in Arabic that have no English equal and thats why I have a problem with "translations". Sometimes the only word that works is the only word to use. As for "fighting" your alternative is what? With all due respect brother platitudes are just that----platitudes.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 46 weeks ago
#46

I agree with all of that, Nat (#45). And you are talking to someone here who has had a world of learning to do around the meaning of that word (respect).

I'm not sure I have the skill to reconstruct those sentences in simpler terms. Please try to get what I'm saying at the core, and ignore the lofty posture if you can ... ((I look over my nose because I can't really see.))

Origslammer 1, peace be unto you as well. Thanks for sharing that instruction.

I don't like to personify and post-date divinity.

To me, the names and titles people assign to dynamic powers of creation at the heart of life invite deviation from the vital core.

Using those projected personifications to define and discuss the unknowable is like cutting a tree down to see what makes it grow.

((Who has time, or generations of time to know how that tree grows? Isn't that what it would take to truly know?))

Further, to wrap those designated entities into a historical context on the chessboard of morality squeezes the last drop of life waters from the stone returning to dust from which it was formed.

..., To me, the breath of life is the sacred ground - right here, right now - however manifest or defined, and now defiled in so many ways ..., all else is shadow and reflection.

Origslammer1's picture
Origslammer1 1 year 45 weeks ago
#47

The US war on terror is a continuation of an effort to demonize Al-Islam also the part of the initiative for grabbing Muslims from Africa in the past. Ths is part of their plan to make the American public perceive the religion of Al-Islam is something foreign to be feared.
America needed a new enemy for its people to fear after Russia was no longer the Russia boogey bear to keep the fear and the Industrial Military complex armed to the teeth. This is not a matter of Respect, it is a matter of Fearmongering.
The idea is the Islamic world is their enemy and vice versa. Remember the US demonize things they don’t like, the Native Indians, Africans, Mexicans and any information they deem will threaten and expose their scheme against the American public to their control over them, by manipulating their fears.
They use Propaganda to stir up the sensitivities of the Arab World by saying nasty things about their Prophet, and religion to jerk the chains of the Arabs, to fire up their sensitivities to display their reactions to the world that Al-Islam is a violent Religion. The Arabs fall into that trap because of their love for their prophet and their own disunity of not following the instructions set by Allah not to worship Muhammad like people here do Jesus, nor to break themselves into sects. No one of them have a picture of Prophet Muhammad, so how can they get mad over a caricature.
The Arabs were also responding to years of Colonialism and American politics interrupting into their affairs. Much like the people of Ferguson Mo, responded to their treatment of years of being used as ATM’s by the city of Ferguson and Debtors Prisons. You beat your dog enough, he will bite you.
This was the same jerk the chain trick that Tom Dorricot tried on me by a suggestion that Prophet Muhammad had what he termed “Pearl” boys. I ain’t mad at him, he has a right to say whatever he likes. The prophet was a human being like the rest of us. So as the Messenger of Allah, my friend Dorricott will have to ask that same question to Allah, because Allah knows the Heart/Mind of any one of us, and like the old commercial use to say “was it live or Memorex”, this is to say that Allah, has placed within the human brain a hard drive that stores our memories, words, actions and deeds, that we cannot put into the recycle bin. He has the power to restore that information to be played back to Dorricott or me. He doesn’t have to get Dorricott for his disrespect right away, He has all the time in the life span of humanity to wait for us to return to Him at the death of our body. He allows people like that plenty of time in the life of this world to repent, this is called rope and every rope has a limit. People see the wicked do things and get the belief that there is no g-d because the wicked are not punished right away. This makes people doubt the goodness of Allah.

Why Arabic?
Allah uses prophets, messengers, language, and the natural Creation as tools to convey messages to humanity. These are Signs. He teaches mankind to read those Signs. These Signs are always the best of their kind. The Arabic is one such tool.

Man learned to read the sign of the Bird, realized the airplane, the horse became horsepower and so on. The problem is that man can take knowledge gained of those signs corrupt them and use them for malicious intent. Thus this Forum and the consternation against this corruption and deliberate behavior from those in High Places over this land and abroad. This is what the whole world is suffering from. You see the good people in this Country have allowed the wicked people to take the helm, and its damn near too late to stop em. The Founding Fathers warned Americans this might happen they saw it before. This is part of the reason they were fleeing from tryanny in Europe. The problem is the land found was occupied. So they invoked in the name of religion as a G-d given right to take that land. So ... here we are having this discussion.

During slavery, the slavemaster would beat the slaves taken as Muslims from Africa, for writing what they called “Chicken Scratch” on the ground. They didn’t care who you were they just wanted slaves. They slaves would get caught writing in Arabic and punished for their troubles. Arabic and Hebrew were Semitic language’s designed to convey expression which serve to deliver precise thought. It was the perfect language used as tool to convey Revelation. If you have ever read any works of Khalil Gibran, you will see the effects much clearer. The Quranic Arabic is more potent in clarity than what Khalil Gibran understood and translated into English in his works of poetry. I understand a little bit of the Arabic, but only enough to be dangerous to myself.
English is like a Frankenstein language, it is composed of a head, leg, arm torso or foot, from different languages, French, Spanish, German, and Google speak, which is still evolving, you name it you will find a patchwork of a language that went into the what is improperly called the English language. The British speak English, not the Americans.
The real fight is not a fight of force, but a fight to reclaim firstly your humanity and your good common senses, and good moral nature. This is the greatest struggle (Jihad) humanity has to wage. Too keep your Moral compass even when it looks like the evil and wicked people seem to be winning, and reaping great wealth as a bonus.
This struggle includes thinking for yourselves, and asking the tough questions. You guys are great at that. This is an excellent quality I see in many of the people in this Forum. I started out the same way, by asking G-d the tough questions, and I can assure you, when you ask those question in a true, humble and sincere spirit of Allah, seeking an understanding, He answers them. Guaranteed!
This is how I learned the value of listening to Jews, Christians, Atheist, Agnostic or even drunks, believe it or not drunk people spout descent wisdom in their state of mind. That is to say keeping my eyes and ears opened. Every person is given Truth from Allah.
I also found that Aheist, and Agnostics are very intelligent and have a better Moral Compass than those who practice religion proper. Most people of faith follow their faith blindly. Never, ever do that! Ask questions.
We have two eyes, one vision, two ears, stereo sound. Allah wants us to see where we are going. So to have blind faith, is not seeing where that belief system came from to get to where you want to go. Light is for eyes, the Word of G-d is Light. Jesus said it best “Blessed is he that gets an understanding”. The eye is the portal to the soul. It can enlighten it or darken it.
Allah wants human beings to clearly understand their religious belief’s they profess too, so no excuses for someone saying later. I was following so and so, I believed what my fathers believed. Every tub stands on its own bottom, there is no special person that will take the sins off another person, regardless how much they believe in certain teachings.
As for translations Muslims are encouraged by Allah to learn the Arabic for themselves.

12:2. We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.

This reading is a clear sign, that in order to truly read the Holy Qur’an, non speaking Arabic Muslims are to try and learn the language. This is more than a suggestion. This means that If I can’t read the Holy Qur’an in the Arabic, for myself, then I am reading my Holy book with shades on. I’m not getting all the LIGHT. Do you know that the Allah still is able to reach your soul even in the translation.

NAT is right on on translations.
This problem of language as a barrier of translation was a big problem for me as a young man studying Bible. The older Bibles had in the introduction or Index that the translation of the original peices of papyrus that made up the Bible was in Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or other ancient languages. Languages not easily converted from one context to another and even further away from the English. This means that what we know as Bible is not in its original form, never was never has been. The index of the older Bibles, which I find conveniently absent in these new Bibles, also indicated that many of the writers that composed it were anonymous, ghost writers, pseudo writers, or writers for hire. I knew as a child that I would never learn those Ancient languages, even if I had learned them, many fragments of those pieces of papyrus found were not complete. These were objects found in graves, caves, old jars buried in the earth.
Many of the missing pieces of those ancient texts were filled in by scribes or others less initiated,
Mistakes were made by omission or transmission or transliteration, some wrote what they believe to fill in the blanks, others for profit. The index clearly described that translations and mistranslations went into that work. The average person thinks that Matthew wrote Matthew, that John wrote John. Or Moses wrote a book. Word of mouth was King in their time, and telling of stories from memory was Queen, many of those people were not lettered, except a portion of the Scribes, who were Lawyers. Can you imagine Religious Lawyers writing scripture and religious Laws for the rest of us. Huummm
The advantage that I have with the Arabic Qur'an is that there are enough scholars, teachers, and people that I have access to that have excellent command of the Arabic, and we have great references in this modern age of tech to help in our translations and teachers available for the study of Arabic. Plus the bonus of having the Holy Qur’an in its original language.
So I’m taking my que from Nat...
I found a class that will be teaching the Arabic spoken in the Qur’an. This class will take a particular amount of time commitment and study. This will probably be my last post for a while to study this magnificent language, to bring my self up to speed. I made a promise to myself to read the Holy Qur’an in the Arabic. This I will do. I will probably check in from time to time but the need to do this is of much greater concern. Thanks for the tip on platitudes, had no idea what that was, will work to improve on that as well.
Salaam - Out

Oh I almost forgot

Tom Dorricott ...

I don't celebrate Christmas, but will make an exception for you for insulting Prophet Muhammad. I'm makeing the worst CHRISTMAS present ever just for you. You are the proud recipient of a choice of either a Snoop Doggie Dog, or a Flavor Flav CHI, CHI ,Chia Pet for Christmas.

Still not mad at ya.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 45 weeks ago
#48

Origslammer 1: I'll take the snoop doggie dog.

We have our own beliefs. If, as you say, Muhammed was indeed human, than mention of the Pearl Boys and Aisha is not disrespectful if it is true, or believed to be true.

In this country, we have had "artists" create such "masterpieces" as "Piss Chr..t", and a painting of the Virgin Mary covered in cow dung. We didn't attempt to kill the artists or the museum curators. We also do not publicly shun or threaten violence on Apostates. We don't publicly throw Gays off of tall buildings. We don't stone women for adultery.

However, many atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity by those who attempted to coopt it for their own gain. No religion has a monopoly on good or evil, as history has proven.

I believe we all worship the same God, and the interpretations of his existence vary because none of us is able to comprehend a being who is all powerful, all loving, and who was around before the beginning of time. Who is a true "Higher Power".

I personally, don't feel my statement concerning Muhammed has anything to do with my fate, but if you feel Muhammed is the favored prophet, that's fine.

All major religions have been the cause of violence and atrocities at one time or another. I don't think the I nquisition or Salem Witch Trials would be, in business terms "Christian Best Practices".

I am certainly not mad at you , either.

I am not good at making gifts, but I will pray for your health and serenity. You seem like a decent person, who is proud of your religion. That's a good thing.

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