Today Thom Hartmann had a caller that mentioned a work by Peggy McIntosh, entitled “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack”. I wish I could remember the caller’s name, for he has exposed me to something that has truly had an impact upon me. I hope that he reads this and if he does I want to say to him: Sir, thank you.

Here are the main elements of her work:

“I was taught to see racism only in individual acts of meanness,

not in invisible systems conferring dominance on my group”

DAILY EFFECTS OF WHITE PRIVILEGE

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person’s voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fi t with my cultural traditions, into a

Hair-dresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children’s teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fi t school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others’ attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the “person in charge”, I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn’t a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and “normal” in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

Comments

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 20 weeks ago
#1

You whities is mighty quiet. Whats wrong? Another whitey telling you about yourself is different than one of us? ACD? What gives? Cat got your tongue? Where's your venom against Ms. McIntosh? Sick, sick, sick.

be_logical_not_... 1 year 20 weeks ago
#2

OK, I'll open myself up to you to ridicule 'whitey'. While many of the points she makes are completely valid, some are more likely focused on LGBT or equally applicable to LGBT community and not just race issues (like #4, 10, 23, 26, 30, 34, 47-49 as examples).

A few others really don't make a whole lot of sense. That being said, there's no denying racial bias in society. However, there is one 'condition' that's missing that can, in some ways, summarize a number of the other ones:

#100. I can not use my race to blame for the outcomes of my bad decisions and bad actions, nor use it to justify my endless anger because of my perceptions that other people are against me, whether it is truly due to racial bias in others people or not.

gmodem's picture
gmodem 1 year 20 weeks ago
#3

Thank you for your concern Nat, I’m a whitey and I’m just fine, saw some other whities and they looked like they were doing fine as well. I realize the small sample size isn’t scientific but I will keep an eye on it and if there are any developments I will let you know. Certainly I will keep a watchful eye out for that cat, sounds painful if your theory is true.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 20 weeks ago
#4

Glad to know the melanin deprived are fat and happy. Keep up the good work.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#5

Gnat: The Melanin "deprived" are happy, but as the obesity rates in this country show, we are not the fat ones.

Asians in this country, once heavily discriminated against and assigned the worst and most dangerous jobs in this country, are now doing better as a group, than any other ethnic group in this country, including whites. Is this due to "Asian Privilege ?"

"Privilege" in terms of determining outcomes, is far from absolute in this nation. We have no caste system where upward mobility is impossible, no laws limiting the goals of women or minorities, and certainly no slavery as there still is in many parts of the world.

The greatest "privilege" one can be born with in this nation, proven clearly by hard fact over two decades of research, is the "privilege" of being raised in a two parent household. This cuts across all racial and gender and ethnic lines, and the advantages are significant.

Given a choice between the two, two parent "privilege" is much, much greater in terms of predicted success and achievement than "White Privilege", ( An offshoot of "white guilt", which dissolved when people who weren't adults during slavery or Jim Crow realized they had nothing to be personally guilty about).

Rather than blaming "White Privilege" as a cause for ills in our modern society, acting to discourage producing children before one finds a responsible mate that will stay to help raise and support them should be made priority number one.

"Two Parent Privilege" is the "privilege" that trumps all.

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 19 weeks ago
#6

Yes Americans are fat greedy people and we have the medical data to prove it. Since most of America is white, go figure but it is irrelevant really.... because the greed speaks to much BIGGER issues. But none of that is really the issue as it relates to THIS post. What do any of you have to say about McIntosh's observations? Only one person seemed to really focus on that and aside from NTG , I assume we are all white and these are the observations of a white WOMAN that I happen to agree with... how can you not. But let's see if we can put our little petty feelings and baseless resentments aside and can address what she has documented. My response is that she is correct and I would guess that Thom Hartmann agrees because he has spoken on this issue many times. So now this goes beond personal resentments we have too many white people saying the same thing...what makes you right and us wrong along with almost every African American in the country? Or are you just completely full of it?

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/diet/fastfood.htm

http://greatideas.people.com/2015/02/18/american-obesity-rate-how-to-lose-weight/

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#7

Mzungu: Excellent links. I agree, there is too much obesity in the U.S. And this is due to personal laziness and dietary ignorance. I am not obese, as I keep active and never really liked fatty foods. However, i can't believe the parents that will take their kids to fast food slop houses like Mc Donalds and cram fat down their throats. Or feed their kids cheap sugary drinks.

We also have the fattest "hungry" people in this country. When I see the lines for free food giveaways, or those using government "access" cards, an alarming number are either obese or morbidly obese. ( I guess if you are a 220 lb woman you are always going to be hungry, but I digress).When I compare our "food lines" now to those photos of the Great Depression food lines, the contrast between fat and thin is amazing. And I don't believe that black and white photography makes you look 60 lbs thinner.

Asians are thinner, and their diets are better. As I said earlier, maybe they are thinner in this country because they are more disciplined, watch their diets and those of their children, and more active. Sub cultures in this country not doing so well, would do well to emulate the Asians. As a group, they are extremely successful, even immigrants "just off the plane."

It seems the whole world is getting fatter. To the extent this and overpopulation increases global warming, maybe the WHO should limit excessive caloric intake. Or the EPA here.

I was surprised Mexico is number one in obesity. I knew the indigenous Mexicans tend to be short and rather chubby, but I had no idea of their relative obesity.

Good Info

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#8

Mzungu: About the "White Privilege" list. As I said, that is not nearly as important as "Two Parent" privilege. We can't change people's colors, and I and almost all other whites are not going to flagellate ourselves because we are white, or because we are large in number. We can, however, work on increasing the behaviors that work in our society. I have never heard an Asian speak of "white privilege" as a significant barrier in their life, although they are a significant ethnic minority in this country.

We need to work on what we can, and not dwell on what we cannot change.

Sneddy's picture
Sneddy 1 year 19 weeks ago
#9

I was the one who called Thom's show a week ago or so asking if Thom was familiar with Peggy McIntosh's work? I am pleased to see it created this discussion. I've come across the work of Tim Wise who IMO speaks in depth on white privilege. If you type Tim Wise
into the YouTube search box, it will bring up several very good videos featuring him. It
is sad that white privilege is not one of the main discussions in the presidential race. For me, it's the most pressing issue in the U.S. I'm a 64 year old white guy who believes strongly in reparations (financial and otherwise). It's good Georgetown University has taken an initial step to right some wrongs. It's time for all institutions to do the same.

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 19 weeks ago
#10

Sir, I am indebted to you for bringing this data forward. Ms. McIntosh is saying everything that we, as Black People in America, have known, and lived, forever. I have in my limited way tried to articulate it, but it is a strange thing that white people speaking on Black People in America has more validity than Black people speaking on themselves. This too, is a manifestation of "white privilege". I will be completing an op-ed on "reparations" soon. I hope that you read it, but I must warn you my prescriptions, relevant to the issue, are quite different than you might expect.

Once again, I thank you.

Sneddy's picture
Sneddy 1 year 19 weeks ago
#11

Hello R. Kenyatta,

I look forward to reading your work on reparations. Your comment
"I have in my limited way tried to articulate it, but it is a strange thing that white people speaking on Black People in America has more validity than Black people speaking on themselves" is tragically true. Mr. Wise (a white guy) addresses this in one of his videos.
Thank you for having posted Ms. McIntosh's work to generate this discussion and thanks to Thom for having posted it in his online notes.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 1 year 19 weeks ago
#12

Democracy Now is covering the prayer action at Standing Rock. The visuals paint a stark portrait of 'white privilege' in action.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/4/dakota_access_pipeline_company_atta...

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 19 weeks ago
#13
Quote TomDorr:

I have never heard an Asian speak of "white privilege" as a significant barrier in their life, although they are a significant ethnic minority in this country.

We need to work on what we can, and not dwell on what we cannot change.

That statement is epically ignorant. How can anyone that claims to be intelligent make such a statement in total disregard of history? And who decides "what we cannot change"? Suppose that had been the mindset with regard to electricity, or women's rights, or civil rights or Jim Crow or anything else. It's not a matter of what we cannot change, it's a matter of what we are willing and demand to change. To compare blacks to Asians is enough to totally delete any credibility you might have had. Even the most racist, white supremacist person would acknowledge that there is no comparison between the two. There is no comparison to blacks with any other racial group in the country. Terms like "subgroups" speak to an ugly mindset. You should be aware of what the author has often pointed out and that is that from a global perspective the "subgroup" is the white people. What happens to your "majority" subgroup arguments then-???? No doubt you will attribute this to the superiortiy of white people as you have often suggested.

Sneddy I heard you on that program as well and like Mr. Kenyatta I thank you. The sooner we stop this cycle of false pride and denial the better off we will all be.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#14

Mzungu: Asians make my point. They come over here, many times impoverished and not even speaking the language, and in a few years thrive. Outperforming all ethnic and racial groups in this country. Is that because of "Asian Privilege", or just hard work and a culture that values strong families, education, delay of gratification, and perseverence.

You say comparing Asians with U.S. born blacks is especially ignorant. How about comparing black immigrants to U.S. born blacks. Is that ignorant?

Black immigrants, as a group, in terms of average incomes, education levels, low poverty levels, and low crime rates, leave U.S. born blacks, as a group, in the dust. Amazingly, white privilege does not seem to have the same effect on them. Is this due to African immigrant privilege?

No. Its the black immigrant culture of gratitude, not attitude.

That's what I meant by "working on what we can ( reducing cultural disfunction), and not dwelling on what we cannot change ( History, skin color, already accumulated wealth).

So lets, for the sake of argument, Mzungu, compare U.S. born blacks to immigrant blacks, not Asians, in terms of achievement and success. The results are similar. How do you account for this?

I'll give you a hint: It starts with "C", has seven letters, ends with "E", and rhymes with Vulture.

And its not any type of "privilege".

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 19 weeks ago
#15

Tom Dorr, tom Dorricott or whoever you are today--- now you have crossed the line between ignorance and stupidity into insults. I have nothing further to discuss with you. Not sure if you just make these statements out of desperation or the need for attention, but I can only stomach so much. You are really a stupid person blinded by your "unjustified" feelings of superiority...and clearly you are not superior by any stretch of the imagination.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#16

Mzungu: You still haven't answered my question-why do black immigrants thrive in this nation and outperform U.S. born blacks?

Can't answer it, can you?

Typical of your genre. You cannot argue the merits so you reply with insults (epically ignorant, ugly mindset, petty, full of it....).

You have nothing further to discuss because you have no cogent argument or response to the issues.

I think you are angry because you cannot reconcile fact with the narrative you desire.

Check the Pew Reports on the internet, and you will see that cultural factors determine poverty. Not perceived "privilege" of others.

Marriage, education, delay of gratification, effort, will overcome any "privilege" listed in this blog. Asian, and black immigrants have proven this beyond any possible doubt. As well as African Americans (and anyone else in this country) who stay together and have children, teach them values and the importance of education, and understand delay of gratification.)

If you don't wish to respond to me with anything but tripe and insults, fine. I realize you are unequipped to argue facts.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#17

Mzungu it is a fools errand to try and convince an imbecile of imbecilic behavior, that's what makes them an imbecile in the first place no matter what they are calling themselves today. Said imbecile constantly tries to use the same reverse psychology of an eight year old talking about you can't this because you can't that. Failing to realize he's so blatantly stupid no one wishes to "debate" his dumb ass. Anyone thats ever raised a child has seen that stuff. he ain't much on challenges either because he's been challenged by Brother Kenyatta several times to prove how bad-ass he really is but he won't touch that one. But you called it right.... most of us just ignore the ignoramus.

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 19 weeks ago
#18

Yeah I know NTG. I'm not really into insulting anyone but I have had enough of this person that tries to come across as knowing something and doesn't know diddly. Trying to imply that black people have no culture or even assigning a certain culture to them is something that I resent. Trying to bring forth simplistic arguments that have complex answers is not a sign of education or knowledge.

I served with black men and women in the armed forces, I doubt this person you call Storm Trooper has ever put on a uniform of any type including a Nazi one, or a UPS one for that matter. These brazen cowards that get on line and say all this stuff knowing full well they would not do so in public irritate me. Why doesn't this guy get on Thom's show and give his racist viewpoint?

I said previously that I would not waste another keystroke on this individual but I thought that I'd take another stab at it hoping to find life on Mars. I'll take your advice thanks for the reality check.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#19

Gnat: If it's a fool's errand, you are highly qualified to do it. So I will ask you, but I know you won't answer on the topic, because intelligent discourse on topics would be beyond your grasp.

" Why is it that Asian and Black immigrants, after just a few years in the U.S., significantly outperform U.S. born blacks economically and educationally. Even with the purported oppression of what some call "white privilege".

I say its culture. What say you and Mzungo 3000, Gnat?

( By the way, I am glad you showed enough compassion to stick up for little Mzungo after I apparently hurt his feelings by eviscerating his arguments.)

If you don't respond on the issue, I'll refer to your reply # 1 : What's the matter, cat got your tongue?

Going to dinner now. Should give you time to see if "Kenyatta" has a response.

Peace.

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 19 weeks ago
#20

Everyone here has the right to say whatever they like, however insipid. In fact, if the insipid among us, whoever that might be, desire to publicly display that insipidness I think that is a bonus. I have no desire to squelch insipidness and ignorance anymore than I do intellect; quite the contrary actually.

Thank all of you for your continued interest and support...keep reading!

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#21

Mzung: I, too have worked with and socialized with successful people, including many African Americans. They showed a culture of responsibility, respect for education, and self-discipline. Most came from two parent families. They succeeded in a very demanding, challenging career that required intense training and effort. They raised their kids in stable families and put them in college. They were not the embittered husks of souls that constantly complained about how cards were stacked against them. They were good at their jobs and careers and good union men/women. They didn't spend their time complaining, they were too busy achieving. They certainly weren't crushed or intimidated, or harmed by my purported "white privilege.

The "culture of disfunction" I refer to is that which produces children outside of the stable relationships needed to properly raise, nurture, and support them. Which does not teach their children the value of education, and the discipline and respect of others it takes to achieve. Which will not "snitch" on those who harm, intimidate, and even murder their own in large numbers, but will come out in droves to protest the death of a small handful of thugs who meet their demise confronting law enforcement officers.

The culture that sees their personal failures as a result of the action or privilege of others.

A culture so disfunctional it relies on new immigrants to provide many of their stores and services, because for whatever reasons, it cannot provide these services for themselves.

I see family structure, responsibility, respect for education and initiative as far more a determinant of success than race or gender. I have seen success where I have worked, and I have seen the devastation of neighborhoods by cultural disfunction so severe it would make the Barbarians seem like Rhodes Scholars.

That is what I mean by culture. It is cultural differences that separate the millions of successful African Americans from the unsuccessful, that separate black immigrant achievers from those they leave in their dust.

It is culture. Not race, nor gender, nor immigrant status.

Anyone who says it is not culture and personal values that determines success in this country is living in a culture of complaint. A culture mired in the past and perpetuated by self-serving or resentful charlatans.

eatraum 1 year 19 weeks ago
#22

Well said.

eatraum 1 year 19 weeks ago
#23

Eloquant. White priviledge is a reality but that is what happens to majorities of any country unless the minority has all the guns, i.e. Iraq. The simple answers in our country for these complainers are: get off your ass and get to school; get along with those of us (black, asian, latin, white, purple) who work our asses off for our success; respect our differences as much as you want us to respect your differences. Excuses will take you only so far.

eatraum 1 year 19 weeks ago
#24

Tom Dorr. You're trying but I think the wall is just a bit thick to help those two. If they'd just get to school and finish that professional degree they long for then they'd be busy building bridges, practicing law, or orthopedic surgeries. My best friend is a black man that has never let white privilege get in his way. He is amazing and I never hear disempowering talk from him. Books are books. The information in them is the same everywhere.....even in China.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#25

Thanks, eatrum. I try to counter what i believe are the most caustic myths that are posted on this site. It is just amazing the unjustified rage and resentment that appears. It must be unfortunate for those who live in a world that they fear is conspiring against them.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#27

RS allen: read the link, it explains US policy. Don't get the point.

Still cultural differences. Just as there are huge cultural differences not only between immigrant blacks and African Americans, but also between middle and upper class African Americans and African Americans that are on the lower rungs of the latter.

Upward mobility is truncated in those groups who have documented cultural disfunction. Individuals who show responsibility in these groups thrive. Responsibility determines success, not race, gender, and certainly not past history.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#28

"My best friend is black". Mine too. So what. How original.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#29
Quote TomDorr:

RS allen: cultural disfunction. Individuals who show responsibility in these groups thrive. Responsibility determines success, not race, gender, and certainly not past history.

The word is d-y-s-f-u-n-c-t-i-o-n stoopid. Obviously you are too "disfunctional" to recognize your own illiteracy. Come on whiteboy, bring it.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#30
Quote TomDorr:

The "culture of disfunction"

A culture so disfunctional

Would that "disfunction" include being a dumb white boy trying to act like he has some modicum of intelligence even though he can't spell? Anyone can make a typo, you can tell by whether the letters are close together on the keyboard, if it's repeated, etc. but that ain't a typo idiot, you did it too many times. The more you open your inbred mouth the more you undermine yourself and you are too stupid to know it. Now I know why why Kenyatta loves you. Just sayin.

rs allen 1 year 19 weeks ago
#31

Am I going senile or something? I thought I only posted a short synopsis of the US immigration policy for those interested to diseminate for themselves with no critique in any shape or form. So help me out everyone, give me a show of hands, did I say anything else beyond that?

How is it that I now am denigrated as not being able to read or add 2+2?

Now then stormfront, the next I have anything to say to a mother fk'n white nationalist I'll be sure to address you personally. But just so you know, you couldn't pay me enough to teach you how to put 2 & 2 together to get 4 much less trying to explain for you the short comings of a white culture that continuely talks out of both sides of their mouth then looks for peace at the end a gun.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 19 weeks ago
#32

Okay "Dysfunction." i guess since I'm not used to "dysfunction" I mispelled it. However, I'll admit when I make an error, unlike your master Kenyatta who still cannot admit he doesn't know the etymology of the words "patriot" and "caucasian", which were the topics of two of his blogs.

Still doesn't answer my major question though. If "white privilege" is purportedly so devastating to African Americans because they are black, how come black and African immigrants come right off the plane, so to speak, and outperform U.S. born blacks significantly? In both family incomes and educational achievement? As blacks, wouldn't they be "crushed" by the same white privilege, discrimination, and oppression that is blamed by some for African American poverty?

I say it is culture. A culture that values marriage, education, and delay of gratification succeeds in this country. And cultural values and priorities matter far more in this country to achieving success than race, sex, or even where one was born.

What say you?

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#33
Quote TomDorr:

Okay "Dysfunction." i guess since I'm not used to "dysfunction" I mispelled it.

Really? You are more "used" to DIS-Function than you know and it's MY-function to kick your sorry inbred ass. Fuck your "major question" inbred. Hell you ain't even a buck private let alone a Major. Write your own articles and ask your questions. You know the deal, when you PUBLICLY provide proof of who you are, your education and accomplishments and those of your children against my Big Bro Kenyatta I'll do whatever you like in terms of "answers". The fact that you don't know the answers to your incredibly ignorant question suggests that you would be incapable of comprehending the answer no matter what that answer might be.

Nah Bro Al you ain't senile nor "Dis" functional.

Hey Horton, check DIS out I ain't in the business of speaking for Brother Kenyatta, but anyone that knows the articles you refer to KNOWS (you would say "no's") that the "etymology" of "caucasian" was agreed upon by as many as disagreed including Shayne (a lawyer mind you) from Hartmann's staff. That's why the thread went into triple pages. So go screw yourself with that one. Second, the Patriot article was not about 'etymology" as much as it was irony. On top of that when he speaks on the two "ironic" terms he clearly says they "appear to be a conjunction". So go screw yourself with that one inbred. On top of all that, I didn't see where you or anyone else definitively proved his supposition wrong and that's what it was a supposition. You specialize in twisting shit and lying and to someone as stupid as you I guess that works, not here inbred. Your little inbred ancient ass keeps trying to focus on the two most obscure issues you can when the Brother has written hundreds of thousands of words and that's the best you can come up with. Know why? Because you are DIS functional Horton that's why. Don't you wish you had that brothers skill and talent? Don't you wish someone would read that bullshit you have attempted to write? Don't you wish you had his command of the language? Don't you wish you were as well spoken as he is (that shit really gets to you and it is terribly obvious)? Don't you wish you could spell (or at least had enough sense to know how to use a spell check). Even other white folks have commented about how completely stupid you are. You dumb MF you don't know shit from shinola or DIS from DAT.

Come on whiteboy, don't freeze up now.

Sneddy's picture
Sneddy 1 year 19 weeks ago
#34

I think those who are reading/contributing to this discussion might
like to see the Tim Wise documentary "White Like Me." It's on YouTube
(a little over one hour eight minutes).

R. Kenyatta's picture
R. Kenyatta 1 year 19 weeks ago
#35

Sneddy, I had heard about this documentary and, in the chaos that is my life, never gotten down to examining it. It is a candid and brutally honest expose' into the issues that I often speak of. I am not a "victim" in the sense that white people like to conveniently portray. I am a single, black male parent of a teenage girl who is among the top students in her school and being courted by colleges, nationwide, for her academic prowess. I have no extended family, I did it alone. I am well educated by any metrics. I am a professional that makes a fairly decent living; yet, I am an "angry Black man" though I do not fit the stereotypes that are often assigned to Black People in America. It would be, and is, illogical for any Black Person in America to not be "angry" no matter their station in life. It isn't about the "anger" it's about how that anger is being channeled.

Pardon the digression.

I just want to thank you for inspiring me to take the time to watch this great work. If I may I'd like to provide the link so that all might partake. Thanks again.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=white+like+me&&view=detail&mid=DF32D05C848A65CD2750DF32D05C848A65CD2750&FORM=VRDGAR

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 19 weeks ago
#36

Sneddy---I wasn't familiar with this guy Wise, but I'd be much interested in what white people have to say about his lecture....probably more denial. He almost is a white, tamer version of Kenyatta. Really appreciate the info.

Sneddy's picture
Sneddy 1 year 19 weeks ago
#37

Another video to look at is Jose Antonio Vargas's White People | Official Full Documentary | MTV on YouTube.

Zenbrarian's picture
Zenbrarian 1 year 16 weeks ago
#38

Kenyatta,

I tweeted this out about a month ago (my moniker here is my Twitter handle):

http://justnomore.com/news/my-white-privilege/

As a "middle aged white female" I found this article conveyed my feelings/thoughts better than if I tried to do so. (Not everyone is as talented as Kenyatta). It may provide someone food for thought. I encourage anyone that reads this not to skip the videos. Be forewarned they are graphic, but show what Black People face daily in this country.

On a side note, why does tomdorr have his panties in a bunch over your posts?

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 16 weeks ago
#39

Zenbrarian, I took a look at the link you shared. All I can say, as a white man is that I don't know how black people manage to tolerate as much as they do. I have taken the time over the past few weeks to read all of Kenyatta's articles. In one he says that "Black People in America aren't angry enough". I tend to agree.

As for the troll you mention "Tommy" he is exactly the type of person and or thing, that Mr. Kenyatta targets and there are a bunch like him. He's just a white racist pig. On top of that I think it distresses him to see a black man so articulate and well educated. Essentially he is envious and cannot accept the fact that this black man has such high self esteem and is paid attention to---that's the long and the short of it. There are lots of white people that feel that they are better than black people even if they are illiterate trailer trash. Its related to what you talked about in your comment on the Crutcher thread.

My dad was a racist pig and I haven't seen him in over 20 years. Don't know if he's dead or alive and don't care. Kenyatta as you point out is terrifically gifted. Even Thom Hartmann has often mentioned that fact on his show. If you never heard kenyatta on the program there are several clips in the archives if you put his name in the search box.

Bodhisattva's picture
Bodhisattva 1 year 16 weeks ago
#40

ZENBRARIAN I kick Horton's butt every chance I get but that has gotten boring. Stupid people get boring rather rapidly.

Horton's panties are all in a bunch for the exact reasons pointed out by Mzungu. Kenyatta is a talented regular writer here and he happens to be black on top of being rather tall and good looking, I might add. I saw him on a video last year for his site but for some reason it's no longer available. I think I recall him mentioning that the site is being revamped or something. I'm a big fan and I make no bones about it.

He speaks as well as he writes and that's enough to send Horton over the edge. Horton is an old, poorly educated redneck that has been taught all of his life that Blacks were inferior especially academically, and here comes this dude Kenyatta that shatters everything that made his sorry white ass feel it had some worth. If you look at Kenyatta's compositions they have comments in the thousands as well as "shares". I am sure you noticed he has a very unique writing style that is almost lyrical. Mzungu is absolutely correct that Horton can't get any attention on his own so he has to sniff Kenyattas ass to garner any attention. He also attemps to imitate him and as you know 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'.

By the way, thanks for the information you posted on Crutcher about the DNA and genetic memory. I am still reading it trying to grasp it all. I knew there was such a thing but I had no idea it was so well researched and documented.

Speaking of ASS, I think the dog farted again. Either that or Horton's at the door.

Zenbrarian's picture
Zenbrarian 1 year 16 weeks ago
#41

Bodhisattva, thank you for taking the time to explain. In reality I was simply trying to rattle tomdorr more than anything. However, I do agree with you and Mzungu, he does appear very needy.

As far as the DNA research link, I was hesitant at first to post the information. Linking genetic makeup to behavior may appear to excuse the bad behavior. After some consideration, I decided to post since the majority of the responders are intelligent and see the research for what it is, an explanation for why racism has existed for so long not an excuse. Even if a person is genetically predisposed to respond to certain stimuli, he or she should not use it as an excuse to perpetuate such actions. In my opinion, we should have evolved beyond such nonsense, yet here we are.

Again, thank you for taking the time to explain. Good luck Horton hunting.

Bodhisattva's picture
Bodhisattva 1 year 16 weeks ago
#42

You're right Zen....in a way. But you give Americans too much credit when you say "we should have evolved beyond such nonsense" when obviously we have not. And I use the term "we" loosley. I also agree that genetic predisposition should be neutralized by environmental stimuli...in other words, my humanity tells me that this is wrong. But that's not the case, is it? One of the first essays I read from Kenyatta was called is America evolving or revolving or something like that and I think it touches upon some of what you present. I found the link:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/melanicman/blog/2015/02/america-evolvi...

As for Horton I don't really hunt. Hunting implies I look for him which I don't, he just shows up. But I will admit to not being able to resist it when he walks down the street with his pants pulled down not planting a steel toed stilleto in it. And as I said before, he is reminiscent of a cheap plastic toy made in Taiwan... it either breaks or you get bored with it soon.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 16 weeks ago
#43

Heh,heh. I think this is a good time for me to plead the fifth.

Zenbrarian's picture
Zenbrarian 1 year 16 weeks ago
#44

Bodhisattva

My intent was to not give any credit at all concerning our evolution which is why I used the word "should" to show my disappointment. Perhaps I needed to pick a stronger word to convey my feelings? After consideration , yes, since my point was not understood in the way it was intended.

Make no mistake, I believe that most white people are infantile and fragile. They are caught up in the most ridiculous nonsense. It's difficult to find any that can string together a coherent sentence let alone hold a meaningful conversation for anything other than the latest trend or internet meme. I have engaged people on Twitter, FB & blogs. It is the same left, right or down the middle. There has been a great dumbing-down or else I expect far too much from people. I would bet it is the latter.

Kenyatta uses the word "devolve" and "revolve" to describe the United States. What I see is a body of people chasing their tails while the "powers that be" ensure that we remain forever placated and ignorant. As he says "the Emperor needs new clothes".

I hope this clears up any ambiguity.

tim1234 1 year 16 weeks ago
#45

I saw my uncle at Thanksgiving and he is supporting Trump. He had a great union job that paid 29 an hour, the factory closed and he now is one of a hundred trying to land a job as a greeter at Wal Mart for minimum wage and no benefits. He was the lucky one. Healthcare and food stamps are available to him from the state at Wal Marts wage, though he resents being on the dole. He lost his 175,000 dollar 3 BR house in a decent neighborhood when he refinanced one too many times, the last time was for 225,000. He rents a trailer for 1200 a month, almost half his wage. His 30 year old daughter is 100,000 dollars in debt for going to cooking school where she learned to be a fry cook to work for minimum wage. She lives on the couch. His pension is gone since his company filed bankruptcy and used the pension to pay off debtors and for bank fees. He has 50,000 worth of medical bills due to his wife's cancer which was diagnosed shortly after his heath insurance expired unbeknownst to him. He spends his days trying to find a better job. There are not many opportunities for labor at the age of 61. To what does he owe this great lifestyle, I asked? He said" "Its all due to white privelidge." Maybe it about class and money not race. Once the Jews achieved econimic parity-no or little anti-semitism. The gays got equal rights quickly because they are not in an economic class. Native Americans are the poorest and suffer the most save for those who discovered the white and yellow man's need for gambling and cigs. Yes people are mean and stupid but the economics are responsible not some baked in prejudice that will vanish as soon as the coins are evenly divided. IMHO

Sneddy's picture
Sneddy 1 year 11 weeks ago
#46

Since having called Thom in August asking him if he was familiar with Peggy McIntosh's
"White Privilege - Unpacking The Invisible Knapsack", I have gone through several of Tim Wise's videos on YouTube covering white privilege and male privilege. As many know who watch YouTube, you are presented with like-genre videos autoplaying after the video you searched for finishes. Jane Elliott got in the play que (Jane conducts the Brown Eye/Blue Eye segregation test with white people). Like Peggy, Tim, and myself, Jane is white and she has little tolerance for the white people she encounters in her sessions who don't grasp her intended impact (to lose racist tendancies and to understand the atrocities African Americans suffer each day simply for being black). As an aside, I have emailed Peggy's work along with Tim's YouTube links to conservative white acquaintances and have never received a reply.

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