I've listened to Thom for several years and he's very interesting and informative about economics and some other social issues.

But he's way below or out of his league when it comes to talking about the Immaculate Conception of Mary and alleging that God "raped" Mary spiritually speaking.

Has it ever dawned on so many of our more self-proclaimed-to-be-ever-so-progressive-thinking-Christians that Mary had a free choice in the matter and accepted it. Had she not accepted, she was not going to be struck down with lightening, turned over to Herod on wildly trumped up charges (for whatever that suited the local officials) etc etc. Nobody would have ever heard of her again and the choice of taking God's seed to fruition at birth and raise him as her son would've been offered to another young woman. She said yes not knowing how life would've turned out.

After all, the Magnificat came afterwards.

Here's one question damn few of the biggest social justice crowd folks who cry for justice for the poor and the needy so loudly from one side of their mouths while saying nothing or whispering "take the kid to the local abortion clinic" to some young frightened kid or older woman . . . how much freedom did those girls and women have as they were pressured into having abortion? And I'm talking about millions of those women, some of whom were actually raped by teen boys and older men. No choice there; and certainly little advocacy for real choice making you'll ever hear from the likes of Planned Parenthood and NARAL or Thom Hartmann's mike.

Thom, what do you REALLY have against the Catholics? And by the way, have you ever read what the late Mount Holyoke College scholar and double Pulitzer in both History and Poetry had to say about intellectuals and Catholicism? Take a look, then have a nice moment of circumspection before Christmas. It'll do you wonders. It won't even leave you feeling spiritually harmed, either; much less raped by God as you did regarding Mary.


Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 48 weeks ago

Can't you find something more current and more important to get worked up about?! Thom was making a point about patriarchal religion.

One more thing. Women & girls are more likely to be forced into carrying babies to term than being forced into abortion. Given the significance of childbearing and its long-range impact on one's life, not to mention the medical risks that go with any pregnancy, I think that's outrageous. And by the way, American women are TWICE as likely as Canadians to die in childbirth. Have a nice day. - AIW

P.S. I'm so glad I wasn't raised Catholic! That religion is as patriarchal as it gets.

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 48 weeks ago

P.P.S. Immaculate DECEPTION! That's what I've got against the Catholic religion. And women as second-class citizens, and pedophile priests!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 48 weeks ago

She may have been raped or maybe just had an affair with the milk man but not with a make-believe superstition. Maybe she/he was a hermaphrodite and raped her/himself? That makes a lot more sense that some other-worldly apparition doing the deed. But, you know, this wasn't the first time that someone was born from a virgin that was impregnated by a deity. The ancient Egyptians had their "virgin Mary" giving birth to a healer of the sick and raiser of the dead. And that was thousands of years before the Christian myth. These religions just plagiarize from older religions...change them a bit...to be more believable by the gullible fools who fall for it. But, I tend to think that the whole story was just made up as were all of the other more ancient stories that the Jewish and Christian and Muslim myths borrowed from.

The Cannibal Mary story in the War of the Jews by Josephus was quite a hoot. The original "communion" so to speak! ;-} Mary sure showed them didn't she?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 48 weeks ago

Way to go, Palin. On this topic we're bosom buddies. ; ) (Wink-wink!)

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 48 weeks ago

How about that! :-) Feels good doesn't it?

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 48 weeks ago

You betcha.

Steven.PBarrett 4 years 47 weeks ago

My congratulations: you've formed an alliance of two. I take it you're combining your Happy Holiday Season party with the Mad Hatter's Ball.

Happy Holidays, (if it's at all possible.)

Aliceinwonderland's picture
Aliceinwonderland 4 years 47 weeks ago

Happy Hannika, Happy Solstice, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas! (I think that covers everyone...) And that includes you, Mr. B.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 47 weeks ago

Of course, you are all aware that Dec. 25th was originally a pagan holiday and no one really knows for sure when Jesus was born...if at all. Actually, some think that he was born not in the Winter time but in the summer. But Constantine made sure that Christianity was Paganized. He was a Pagan after all. Yes, yes, I know that the Christians claim that he converted before he died. But until then, he managed to do a lot of very bad things. I guess Christianity wasn't good enough for him during his lifetime even though he was responsible for making Christianity a more acceptable religion in the Empire. He was a pragmatist, after all, knowing that it would stop all of the bickering and pain-in-the-ass problems he had to deal with.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 4 years 47 weeks ago

Actually, the Mad Hatter's Ball would be saner than some of the ridiculous things that people believe in...superstitious things...religious things. So, happy Winter Solstice to one and all, and to all a good night said the Cheshire Cat to the Ace of Spades! ;-}

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