"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave"

Francis Scott Key's "The Star-Spangled Banner,"

Comments

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 15 weeks ago
#1

Yes, this is a racial verse that is indicative of the US before the Civil War. I couldn't make sense of the phrase "hireling and slave", so I tried to get some interpretations.

Several of these interpretations by others seem to indicate that the hirelings and slaves were mercenaries and American slaves who fought for the British. It makes sense. I don't thing they meant killing slaves or hired workers. The "band" of "their foul footsteps pollution" evidently refers to all who fought for the British against US.

Francis Scott Key. I believe, was a slave owner.

If nothing else, this shows that times have changed. This verse is not still in the lyrics generally distributed concerning the Star Spangled Banner, nor is it sung.

Today the only lyrics desparaging to African Americans are written by a handful of crazies in a few small right wing hate groups, and some rappers who make money off degrading women and their culture.

Tom Dorr....tt

Dukkah Earl 1 year 15 weeks ago
#2

The thing about the anthem is that the majority of Americans aren't even aware of a third verse, may only have an inkling of a second and usually forget the words after the first stanza and end up humming the rest.

Because nobody was really taught anything in depth about both the author and the poem itself, one just grew up believing it was a song of patriotism--our flag was under constant fire but remained flying after a heavy barrage. Kind of romantic as long as one doesn't dig deeper. But for what civics was taught way back then, it was still sugar coated.

To slam those who see Kapernick's actions, (or is it inaction?) as unpatriotic, more than likely see the song as a symbol of perserverance and strength and not as a statement of racism. But, Kapernick, if I understood him correctly, isn't protesting the song, but rather the flag itself as a statement of values that aren't being upheld for everybody. So, if our national anthem was "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" he still wouldn't stand, because the principles that the flag represent, aren't representing PoC.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 15 weeks ago
#3

The MAN who wrote America's NATIONAL ANTHEM

"It's true that he( F S Keys) thought black people were intellectually and morally inferior to whites, and said so in no uncertain terms"

It's also true that Francis Scott Keys owned black slaves.

"He was pro-slavery, period. He thought that slavery was the white man's constitutional right, period."

When he wrote the poem that would, in 1931, become the national anthem and proclaim our nation “the land of the free,” like Thomas Jefferson and 12 United States presidents, Key not only profited from slaves, he harbored racist conceptions of American citizenship and human potential. Africans in America, he said, were: “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.”

"Shortly after a race riot in Washington, D.C. when an angry white mob set upon a well-known free black restaurant owner, Key likewise sought to crack down on the free speech of abolitionists he believed were riling things up in the city. Key prosecuted a New York doctor living in Georgetown for possessing abolitionist pamphlets.

In the resulting case, U.S. v. Reuben Crandall, Key made national headlines by asking whether the property rights of slaveholders outweighed the free speech rights of those arguing for slavery’s abolishment. Key hoped to silence abolitionists, who, he charged, wished to “associate and amalgamate with the negro.”

The White House built by black slaves, the US national anthem composed by a slave owing racist , 12 US Presidents who owned slaves and hundreds of years of slavery and America believes it's not a racist nation, rubber stamped by a right wing leaning Supreme Court in the 21st century, who says there is no racism in America.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/wheres-debate-fran...

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 14 weeks ago
#4

Tom Dorr

A hireling is a individual who is hired to do a job. An employee. The hireling and slaves are in the one's in the "trenches" they are fighing the war. I interpute this stanza to be at this point in the war their situation is hopeless. This is shown in the lines

"That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more? Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution."

The Stars Spangled Banner (the flag, not the song) gave hope to the hireling and slave.

ZapDam

All 12 US presidents who owned slaves were Democrats. Lincoln, a Republican freed the slaves.

By the way, why don't you try to correct the wrongs in Canada. Here are a few you could work on. The hatred most Canadians have for those from Quebec, or Asians, or East Indians. The two tier health system that relegates non whites to clinics.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#5

Ou812 Things slow and boring at FOXsocalledNEWS, or are you the designated right wing hitman. "Slaves are in trenches they are the ones fighting the war", lol ,well at least your creative. What about all the racist quotes, the jailing of abolitionists, was he just misunderstood, lol . Did you give up after my text bludgeoned you at my other post WHY do AMERICANS pay the HIGHEST DRUG prices in the WORLD, Republican invented HMO health insurance system , Republican invented high priced drugs.

Quote Ou812... "The hatred most Canadians have for those from Quebec, or Asians, or East Indians. The two tier health system that relegates non whites to clinics" That statement is such an outrages lie, i won't even give the pleasure of a reply. You're another hateful right winger , when you tire of hating everything in your little world, you turn your small twisted simple mind on things not American. The cult of right wing republicanism, is a sickness you know.

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 14 weeks ago
#6

Zapdam

I've have nothing more to say about Why do Americans pay the highest drug prices in the world. You've never responded to any of the questions I've asked. Only statements like Republicans invented HMO health insurance system and Republicans invented high priced drugs. Your statements are right up there with Al Gore's statement that he invented the internet. Folks can read what I wrote and decide for themselves.

I stand by the statements about Canadian hatred and the two tier health system. You sir/or mam are in denial.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#7

Ou812

Anyone who would vote for a right wing government in a moron , unless of course you are one of the multimillionaires, other than that you're a goof, go away.

As to why as a Canadian i would take the time to post on American affairs. What's wrong my friend , are you having sleepless nights since you found out that many things you believe as American truths are outright bullshit lies, you've live decades in the fog of misinformation and now you're crushed , you don't know what to believe.

By the way, I did answer your questions , except for the outrages divisive horseshit you are inventing about english hating the french in Canada and the rest of your sick fantasy.

Bet you can't wait for Donald Trump to show up in your city.. I have zero tolerance for people like you. Stupid racist small minded pin headed people like you and your blind messianic cult following of right wing republicanism are destroying America from within, the very thing your (racist, slave owning)founding fathers feared.

Dukkah Earl 1 year 14 weeks ago
#8

your statements are right up there with Al Gore's statement that he invented the internet.

Sticking with debunked talking points, doesn't help your case.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#9

Dukkah Earl

Thank you for your comment, web address backing up your claims and thank you for your help.

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 14 weeks ago
#10

ZapDam. I see you have hatred and anger management issues . And they are on full display.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#11

Ou812 you're priceless and hilarious, lol. Don't go away as i asked and i take back all my personal insults, you're just to much fun. Nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in, so please carry on. I must admit though, you're one of the very few people 'who get my goat.'( is that a saying in the US?)

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 14 weeks ago
#12

No problem Zapdam...Yes I've heard get my goat before....:)...Peace and Love.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 1 year 14 weeks ago
#13

Ou812: Zapdam is a good guy, and puts alot of documented thought in his blogs and responses. Like me, he sometimes has his passion misinterpreted. We disagree on alot, but I've learned alot from him, both factually and perceptually.

(Its unfair to wish him peace and love, however. Canadians eat that stuff up. Its like rubbing a dog's belly. It takes him off his game. (Just kidding).

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#14

Tom Dorr quote "Its unfair to wish him peace and love, however. Canadians eat that stuff up. Its like rubbing a dog's belly."
lol, Thank you Tom for your kind words and your comment is funny as hell.

Ou812 ' You know i really love living next door to my American neighbors, its just you're so manipulated and abused and your nationalism forbids you from speaking out as if you're somehow being unfaithful to your country. I'd like to think as a Canadian i can say things to you , that you can't say to yourself for fear of betraying that love you have for your country.

Dukkah Earl 1 year 14 weeks ago
#15

You know i really love living next door to my American neighbors, its just you're so manipulated and abused and your nationalism forbids you from speaking out as if you're somehow being unfaithful to your country.

I'm hoping that you are aware that you are making a generalization.

Victim2's picture
Victim2 1 year 14 weeks ago
#16

No. The verse is not "racist". This is the definition of racist, in case we've forgotten. In this song lyric, the word slave is used as a descriptive word in 1814 to try and write a poem or song lyrics to describe the bloody battle that was fought, and the pride all the soldiers must have for they won the battle and the flag was still flying high. The lyric was descriptive in meaning describing the soldiers...their DIFFERENT skin colors, battling side by side. The song is actually diverse! The property of the US are its military men and women and neither has not changed a bit in today's military either! Will the color black be racist next? If so, then the rap artists today need a memo. Because if this 1814 poetic song based on pride and a joined effort in a terrible battle is racist then someone really needs to do some clean up. What I DO find racist, is the little bits and pieces picked up here and there to prove there was slavery or racism once. We are aware. How do we move forward if we continue to look back? We don't. If racism is alive today, tell me...where are the KKK?! No where! I don't understand how we can be so diverse and diversity is everywhere, neighborhoods, schools, playgrounds, jobs, churches...but NAACP, BLM, Black Panthers still lives on...which is racist. Stop asking what color I am. Stop. Stop segregating to bring equality and watch..still..its a never ending battle. It will never end until all white skin is gone, am I wrong? No. Everone knows it too.. The minority is now Korean, Mexican, Italian, German, or even the white woman!!! But, no longer is it a black person. Insisting on justice while trailing the blood of 11 white police officers, stopping traffic which may include emergencies, jobs, children to care for...why? What did the public do? When everwhere you will find a major jerk, or ignorant fool, or just an evil thing looking to hurt...but because skin color is different...you become racist! In FACT...you can be made to be a racist by what OTHER PEOPLE THINK...without any doing or saying of your own. But I do see Black Supremecy in larger crowds then I do white supremecy. White supremecy does exist...it sits in the chairs that remove rights from us while taxes increase ..because...we are ALL a slave. White and black. How can we be racist?

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 14 weeks ago
#17

Victim2

Noticed that you skimmed over all historically recorded facts that Francis Scott Keys was racist who owned black slaves and who criminally prosecuted abolishtionists.
"He was pro-slavery, period. He thought that slavery was the white man's constitutional right, period."
You ask why "How do we move forward if we continue to look back? We don't. If racism is alive today, tell me...where are the KKK?! No where!"
I'll let the stupidity of that damning statement you just posted ,to stand alone with no comment.

Logic-Lesson's picture
Logic-Lesson 1 year 13 weeks ago
#18

I laugh at, but am also saddened by all the discussion by people who do not understand the context of the Star Spangled Banner. First off, I don't care about Kapernick, what he's doing, or why he's doing it, that's not my concern. My concern is telling you all why the words "No refuge could save the hireling or the slave" is in there. It has nothing to do with whether Key was a slave owner or not, or whether he was a white supremacist or not, neither of that matters in the context of the song. The phrase (and the song) is describing the Battle of Fort McHenry and the possibility of the invasion of Baltimore. In building defenses, hirelings (hired persons) and slaves were used to build defenses and trenches. When the British bombarded the fort and threatened the city, the simple fact is that no refuge could save the hireling or the slave (or anyone else for that matter) because the British would be coming for everyone. It has nothing to do with any resentment toward blacks or poor workers or anything to that nature. It simply is describing in poetic language a perilous situation that all persons of Baltimore found themselves in. It would have actually been more offensive if he didn't include that line because that would be ignoring their contribution in the defense efforts. So lastly, for the love of God, read a history book (or at least a Wikipedia article) before you start declaring our National Anthem racist so that you will learn of the errors of your thinking. You're all welcome for enlightening you.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#19

Logic Lesson

Well my friend if you want to live in a word of denial , you're welcome to it. You've done your best to 'decode' or put a spin on Americas racist 'National Anthem' , but no matter what you say, the fact remains , Americas national anthem was written by a racist. Not only did Keys publicly state that blacks were inferior to whites , but he said it was the white mans obligation to summit these 'subhumans' to a life of servitude. Keys confirmed this as fact by owning black human beings. As a lawyer Keys even went as far to criminally prosecute white people ( abolitionists) who were the polar opposite of his views. Nice try though at disseminating your delusion.

Mzungu.3000's picture
Mzungu.3000 1 year 13 weeks ago
#20
Quote Victim2: If racism is alive today, tell me...where are the KKK?! No where! ...but I do see Black Supremecy in larger crowds then I do white supremecy.

In the time that I have been watching TH and visiting this site that has got to be the most flagrant and brightest beacon of stupidity I have ever seen and I have read some ridiculous stuff here. But you get the trophy. In fact that was so stupid I feel sorry for you. If the verse "was not racist" why was it deleted?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/30/the-current-state-of-white-supremacist-groups-in-the-u-s/?utm_term=.ebe49b3824e2

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/donald-trump-white-supremacists-216620

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 13 weeks ago
#21

Mzungu.....righteous links and as for your comment all I can say is that person leaves me speechless. I read the Stormfront article and was tripped out that the founder of these pink pigs is named BLACK. STFU! I'm trying hard not to laugh but that is some funny shit.

I know you mad at me MapleLeaf and don't want me to pollute your threads but you shouldn't post such tempting goodies. I'll try to control myself and ignore you to the best of my ability.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#22

Ghost

My friend any disagreements we may have either imaginary or real , pass really fast. Ghost you are much to valuable a person to ever ever ignore or not want to be friends. And thank you your comment. All is well my friend.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#23

Mzungu.3000

Quote "In the time that I have been watching TH and visiting this site that has got to be the most flagrant and brightest beacon of stupidity I have ever seen and I have read some ridiculous stuff here. But you get the trophy. In fact that was so stupid I feel sorry for you. If the verse "was not racist" why was it deleted?"

You must be a satirical writer for a living , because that comment is just so biting and as funny as hell.

NatTurnersGhost's picture
NatTurnersGhost 1 year 13 weeks ago
#24

MapleLeaf ain't no doubt. I respect smarts and whatever else you may or may not be you are one smart MF.

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 13 weeks ago
#25

Zapdam,

You appear to have backed off your statement that the third verse of "The Stars Spangled Banner" is racist. Your tone now implies that it's racist because it was written by Francis Scott Key, a slave owner. Using the logic you employ, I guess the "Declaration of Independence" is racist as well, because it was written by Thomas Jefferson, a man who owned hundreds of African-American slaves, or what about the US Constitution. James Madison is considered the "Father of the Constitution". He also owned hundreds of slaves during his lifetime.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#26

Victim2

Please come back and comment more. i truly believe in your heart and mind you are sincere, the fact we don't see eye to eye, doesn't mean you bring nothing of value to the conversation. Talk to us all.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#27

Ou812

You're back and as annoying as ever, you remind of my first wife, thank god she lives in another city. Just kidding, you always bring something of value to the conversation.

OU812 you just underlined why America is racist country, your system is steeped in racist history, right down to the building of the White House. That's why Americans deep down in the recesses of their minds respond so well to racist dog whistles. That's also why almost half of Americas population just had fits with a black man in the White House. Hell to have your 'national anthem' topping off everything , with a racist third verses and America celebrating its author a 'hard core racist himself'.

Your 'Declaration of Independence' written by Thomas Jefferson , "all men are created equally" bullshit, except if you're a NEGROW or a wet back, an American icon who used to have his 11 and 12 year old slave boys beaten, right after he buggered them, for not quickly jumping to the task of 12 hours of hard labor in his nail factory. Surprised , its a historical fact Jefferson had an Anthony Weinner problem, just couldn't keep his weiner in his pants.

Mix the above statement with your gay closeted 16th President Abraham Lincoln , 99.999% of Americans who have no idea what i'm talking about. A President I'd vote for in a nano second if i had the chance.

Americas cast of rogues and characters all under the freshly white washed blanket of tear jerking , heart in your throat American nationalism. All just one of many American hero's and icons , that 'talked the talk , but failed to walk the walk.'

My god on closer look, no wonder live in such a fucked up country. You're lucky your country is rich in spin masters, putting lip stick on a hog.

Ou812's picture
Ou812 1 year 13 weeks ago
#28

Read this article ZapDam

"Canada's secret slave-owning past revealed"

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada/2014/02/10/canadian-secret-slave-pas...

Photocrazy's picture
Photocrazy 1 year 13 weeks ago
#29

Your history is lacking. Back then the Democrats were the conservatives and the Republicans were the liberals. Over time the roles changed, the last hold outs were called Dixiecrats in the 1950s, Strom Thurmond was their Presidential candidate, they were upset that the Northern Democrats were for Black Civil Rights. They decided they didn't have enough power so went back to the Democrats until Thurmond changed to the Republican party, they chose to follow him. Lincoln would have nothing to do with todays GOP.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 13 weeks ago
#30

Ou812

" Between 1840 and 1860, before the American Civil War, enslaved Africans followed the North Star on the Underground Railroad to find freedom in Canada. It was not an actual railroad but a secret network of routes and safe houses that helped people escape slavery and reach free states or Canada. Sometimes there were guides available to help people find their way to the next stop along the way. Travelling on the Underground Railroad was dangerous and required luck as much as a guide.

The Underground Railroad has been the subject of a certain amount of myth-making. Because of the secrecy required for its success, there hasn't been much documentation to describe its role in our history. It is impossible to know for certain how many slaves found freedom by way of the railroad, but it may have been as many as 30 000. The railroad's traffic reached its peak between 1840 and 1860, especially after the US passed its Fugitive Slave Act in 1850. The new law allowed slave hunters to pursue and capture enslaved persons in places where they would legally be free. It resulted in several attempts to kidnap escapees in Canada and return them to former owners in the Southern States"

"British Lieutenant Colonel John Graves Simcoe 1752-1806 ,was a passionate leader who was opposed to slavery. Simcoe argued that Christian teaching opposed slavery and the British Constitution did not allow it. As the first Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada (later to be called Ontario), he pledged to never support a law that “discriminates by dishonest policy between the Natives of Africa, America or Europe.” To his credit Simcoe was a visionary, new-world political leader who was not afraid to speak out against slavery, even when it was not popular to take this stand.

Nine members of his advisory Legislative Council and part of the ruling class in Upper Canada owned slaves and took slavery for granted. In 1793, Simcoe learned that a young slave named Chloe Cooley had been tied with a rope and transported across the Niagara River. Despite her violent resistance, she was sold to a man in the United States. This dramatic event underscored how slaves in Upper Canada had no protection under the law. Her case was brought before Simcoe and his Executive Council in Navy Hall at Newark (now Niagara on the Lake). The resulting legislation repealed the Imperial Statute of 1790 allowing settlers to bring slaves into Upper Canada. This meant that any enslaved seeking the “Canaan Land” of Canada would be automatically free " This was 77 years before Canada became an official nation.

As for the 'Metronews' you just quoted they must have dug deep. Metronews is a right wing racist rag, that are constantly trying to divide Canadians, as the right wingers do in America. Such a twisted hateful bunch world wide, so sick are these people, they appeal to mans base instincts, the dark side of mankind. Spouting the evil of the devil himself these people yearn to be his loyal disciple. Ou812 if you had an once of humanity , you'd hang your head in shame.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 5 weeks ago
#31

romath

quote : "Subsequently, Key became a district attorney, for DC I think, and rabidly prosecuted Blacks and Abolitionists for acting against slavery. That's our American heritage and what it signifies to stand and sing the national anthem." Yes i knew most of what you just posted, although you are much better than myself at clarifying and putting the events in a coherent order. Thanks again

romath's picture
romath 1 year 5 weeks ago
#32

@Ou812: You seem to be - or I hope you are - unaware that the context is the War of 1812, which started when the US tried to grab Canada from the British. The British commanders in turn were under orders to first free slaves and other Blacks give them protection (and thus undercut the US). Key, a lawyer and slaveholder, wrote his poem to celebrate that after a night of British attack on Fort M'Henry the flag was still aloft, the US still stood, i.e., that hirelings (workers) and slaves that sought freedom could expect nothing better than the terror of flight and the gloom of the grave. In the end, not only did the Brits protect Canada, but those Blacks that joined them were allowed to go to Canada or Trinidad in freedom. Subsequently, Key became a district attorney, for DC I think, and rabidly prosecuted Blacks and Abolitionists for acting against slavery. That's our American heritage and what it signifies to stand and sing the national anthem.

romath's picture
romath 1 year 5 weeks ago
#33

zapdam, as one is writing, the site gives the misimpression that a reply to a specific post will appear directly under it. Mine was to Ou812. And now I find after editing it to correct that, it drops my post under our exchange (and now this under that). Weird. Nonethless, thanks.

P.S. I'd be interested to know what the first four lines of the third verse refer to and thus how they relate to what follows.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 1 year 5 weeks ago
#34

romath

The following is all i need to know to have no respect for your anthem or the man who wrote it.

"It's true that he( F S Keys) thought black people were intellectually and morally inferior to whites, and said so in no uncertain terms"

It's also true that Francis Scott Keys owned black slaves.

"He was pro-slavery, period. He thought that slavery was the white man's constitutional right, period."

When he wrote the poem that would, in 1931, become the national anthem and proclaim our nation “the land of the free,” like Thomas Jefferson and 12 United States presidents, Key not only profited from slaves, he harbored racist conceptions of American citizenship and human potential. Africans in America, he said, were: “a distinct and inferior race of people, which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.”

"Shortly after a race riot in Washington, D.C. when an angry white mob set upon a well-known free black restaurant owner, Key likewise sought to crack down on the free speech of abolitionists he believed were riling things up in the city. Key prosecuted a New York doctor living in Georgetown for possessing abolitionist pamphlets".

This just underlines how the United States is still honoring historical racists who dehumanized a segment of the population and made their lives a living hell. It would be the same as disregarding the actions of Hitler and admiring his paintings and the literary merit of Mein Kampf

welcome1 15 weeks 2 days ago
#35

No one and I mean almost no one other in the US considers the Star Spangled Banner a song about division. Racisim is being pushed by the far left to push a political agenda and creating division. A mirror is all that is needed to see who is perpetuating racism. The far left, the far right an ignorance are pushing this agenda. I would guess this is less than 1% of the US population. 100-200 years ago there was a lot of racism as it was a completely different world. I don't respect people who act like we need to create issues where there really is none. I was at a pro sports sporting event in the US last week and I did not see anyone of any age, race, religion, etc that was offended by the anthem. I was far left and proud of it about 15-20 years ago and then I realized I was WRONG. I am encouraging all people from the far left that you are doing exactly the opposite of what you supposedely want. Please wake up. 98% of the country is ready to move forward and on to REAL issues.

welcome1 15 weeks 2 days ago
#36

and before you jump on my case. YES there are issues here and there that need to be dealt with but they should be dealt with on a case by case basis. This is not systematic US problem that needs the US to be totally rebuilt/restructured. It is counterproductive.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 15 weeks 1 day ago
#37

America is racist to the core my friend so stop trying to defend the indefensible. TWELVE US Presidents owned slaves, owned humans like horses and cows. The father of your constitution who wrote 'ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL' was a brutal slave owner, who wrote to his friend 'the best investment was owning blacks'. Your constitution considers black slaves only 3/5ths human. Your WHITE HOUSE was built with BLACK SLAVERY, the daily reminder of Americas racist presence and past . Your national anthem was written by a overt racist. It wasn't until the mid 1960's that blacks were truly allowed to vote in half your country. At war blacks were segregated from whites and considered inferior as soldiers as little as 70 years ago. Today there are more blacks in prison , than were in chains on US plantationswe , a disporoportional 60% of ALL US inmates in Americas bloated prisons are blacks and minorities. America is rife with profiling as blacks and Latino's in todays world suffer the indignity of 'stop and frisk' and murder by cop at outrages rates. So STOP lying to yourself and trying to make us all believe in your fantasy. , TO much of the world America is Great alright , the Great Satan.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 15 weeks 1 day ago
#38

America is racist to the core my friend so stop trying to defend the indefensible. TWELVE US Presidents owned slaves, owned humans like horses and cows. The father of your constitution who wrote 'ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL' was a brutal slave owner, who wrote to his friend 'the best investment was owning blacks'. Your constitution considers black slaves only 3/5ths human. Your WHITE HOUSE was built with BLACK SLAVERY, the daily reminder of Americas racist presence and past . Your national anthem was written by a overt racist. It wasn't until the mid 1960's that blacks were truly allowed to vote in half your country. At war blacks were segregated from whites and considered inferior as soldiers as little as 70 years ago. Today there are more blacks in prison , than were in chains on US plantationswe , a disporoportional 60% of ALL US inmates in Americas bloated prisons are blacks and minorities. America is rife with profiling as blacks and Latino's in todays world suffer the indignity of 'stop and frisk' and murder by cop at outrages rates. So STOP lying to yourself and trying to make us all believe in your fantasy. , TO much of the world America is Great alright , the Great Satan.

welcome1 15 weeks 13 hours ago
#39

I stand 100% by my mirror comment. Everyone knows racism was alive and well when the US was founded. What are we going to do now because of It? Tear the country Down? Minorities being a large prison population is due to a social economic issue rather than race. Don't commit crimes and you don't go to jail. By the way I am a white man married to a minority. Even she agrees because she is not blinded by a political agenda. She has never had a problem with gaining employment even when she did not go to college. Don't pretend to know the US since or it seems that you are a Canadian citizen. Open your eyes!

welcome1 15 weeks 13 hours ago
#40

Also, do you realize that 20% of racist groups in the US are black separatist groups? Focus on the facts and don't generalize. Most of us in the US get along with each other fine and with respect. The 1960's are done.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 15 weeks 11 hours ago
#41

welcome1 you do give us a lot of figures - 98% here, 1% there, 20% somewhere - all drawn out of your??? These bogus statistics scarcely further your cause. Ah, yes: "Most of us..." You must have based that conclusion on years of sound research.

All together now, with spirit!:

The Blood Spattered Banner

Oh say can you see by the nation’s sad plight

Just how badly it's failed to live up to its meaning?

In dark streets and bright bars thru the perilous night,

More than once, as we watch, men go silently screaming.

And the people despair, hope adrift in the air

To delight of the right many cupboards are bare

Oh say does that blood spattered banner yet wave

O’er the land that’s not free nor its people so brave?

Go, Kaepernick, my hat’s off to you and those brave enough to join you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-nelson/patriotism-is-the-last-re_b_12183324.html

(QUOTE)

THE BLOG 09/25/2016 01:05 pm ET

Patriotism is the Last Refuge of the Scoundrel

By Steve Nelson

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” - Samuel Johnson, 1775

Heated debate has arisen throughout the nation as a result of Colin Kaepernick’s kneeling protest. Athletes and others are kneeling, sitting or, in at least one case, lying on the ground as the anthem plays. This protest has become intertwined with the Black Lives Matter movement, particularly since the latest among the endless string of questionable police shootings of black boys and men.

(UNQUOTE)

rs allen 15 weeks 11 hours ago
#42

Aah, another law and order freak. Where do these 'people' come from? Oh yeh, the good old us of a.

Now then mister why do you think or why would it surprise you to find Black separatists in the good old us of a? And of that group how many are militant? Few damn few. And the few that are militant they fight for inclusion not separation. The vast majority of the separatists wrote white america off as a lost cause long ago motherf'ker and just want to be left alone to build their communities in peace. They dislike you for good reason and I would say, the very best of reasons.

What makes so called liberal white america so blind to, so bound to, so chained to it's inherent institutional racism? That question is for the white to figure out amongst yourselves. Black voices can't help you, it's not our problem. Our problem is you.

As we used to say in the 60's, "that sounds like a personal problem to me."

Now then go work on your personal problem with the white sitting next to you.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 15 weeks 11 hours ago
#43

Now then, welcome1, when you have time and the desire to become informed, read some of these. The first two, as well as others, provide further reading for your edification:

Racial Disparity | The Sentencing Project

A nation's rate of incarceration is the number of people incarcerated as a proportion of its total population. ... The Sentencing Project's key ... Racial Disparity.

www.sentencingproject.org" ">sentencingproject.org/issues/racial-disparity/

The Color of Justice: Racial and Ethnic Disparity in State ...

U.S. prison population trends, 1999-2014: ... Washington, DC: The Sentencing Project. Disparities are evident at the initial point of contact with police, ...

www.sentencingproject.org" ">sentencingproject.org/publications/color-of-justice-racial-and-...

Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities in Incarcerated Populations

Alarming disparities in population health and wellness in the United States have led to multidisciplinary ... Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities among Prison ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546523/

Racial disparity between U.S. and incarcerated populations ...

graph showing the racial distribution of the U.S. and prison populations

' title="Search domain www.prisonpolicy.org" class="result__icon__img js-lazyload-icons" data-src="//icons.duckduckgo.com/ip2/www.prisonpolicy.org.ico" v:shapes="_x0000_i1026">https://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/race_us_prison.html

PDF Health Disparities in the Criminal Justice System: Quick Facts

Health Disparities in the Criminal ... Disparities and ... is nine to 10 times higher among incarcerated populations. Studies of HCV in state prison systems ...

jhconnect.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/health-dispari...

Study finds huge racial disparity in America's prisons ...

There is a stunning gap between the number of white and black inmates in America's prisons. ... disparity between ... prison populations that ...

www.businessinsider.com" ">businessinsider.com/study-finds-huge-racial-disparity-in-amer...

Racial Disparity In Prisons | BlackMattersUS.com

This publication by The Sentencing Project contains the data on racial disparity in prisons for the past year. ... Maryland, whose prison population is 72% African ...

https://blackmattersus.com/33974-racial-disparity-in-prisons/

Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities in Incarcerated Populations

92 Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities in Incarcerated Populations ... 95 Racial and Ethnic Health Disparities in ... In 2010 the U.S. prison population was ...

digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1141&context=...

Black Americans incarcerated five times more than white ...

Data analyzes racial disparities in state prison population asOklahoma and New Jersey among states where disparity is 10 times or more

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/18/mass-incarceration-bl...

More results

Prison Segregation and Racial Disparities | Solitary Watch

Prison Segregation and Racial Disparities ... skewed in their populations, ... where there were significant prison populations and where the ...

solitarywatch.com/2013/11/02/prison-segregation-racial-disp...

Disparities in Prison Populations Essay - 910 Words | Bartleby

DISPARITIES IN PRISON POPULATIONS Although we would like to believe the world is not as racially charged in 2013 as it was in the 1960s, a look in our penal system ...

https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Disparities-in-Prison-Populations-P...

Health Disparities and Incarcerated Women: A Population Ignored

I am an invisible man. No, I am not a spook like those who haunted Edgar Allan Poe; nor am I one of your Hollywood-movie ectoplasms. I am a man of substance, of flesh ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518599/

Racial disparities in the 'great migration' to prison ...

Article by Peter Wagner argues that criminal justice reforms must be include a plan to address pernicious and systemic racial disparities in the prison population.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2001/10/07/upr/

Racial Disparities in the U.S. Prison Population: Causes ...

Read this essay on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Prison Population: Causes, Effects and Remedies. Come browse our large digital warehouse of free sample essays. Get ...

www.termpaperwarehouse.com" ">https://www.termpaperwarehouse.com/essay-on/Racial-Disparities-In-The-U-s-Pr...

Disparities in Prison Populations | Experts4students

Week 3 DQ. Disparities in Prison Populations Though there is no one archetype for the kind of person who becomes a criminal, prison statistics show drastic ...

experts4students.com/question/769/search_user.php

NAACP | Criminal Justice Fact Sheet

Criminal Justice Fact Sheet. ... prison and jail populations would decline by almost 40%. ... especially disparities in sentencing for crack and powder cocaine ...

naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Incarceration & social inequality - American Academy of Arts ...

Incarceration & social inequality ... by the rapid growth in the prison and jail population. 1 America's prisons ... Disparities of race, class, gender ...

www.amacad.org" ">https://www.amacad.org/content/publications/pubContent.aspx?d=808

PDF Racial Disproportionality in the American Prison Population ...

Racial Disproportionality in the American Prison Population: ... the U.S. population but two-fifths of the prison population. The disparities are even more

cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/racial_disproporti...

Essay on Racial Disparity in the Correctional Population ...

Racial disparity in the correctional population ...  Racial Disparities in the ... Hispanics and black make up two-thirds of the US prison population ...

studymode.com/essays/Racial-Disparity-In-The-Correction...

PDF CREATED - nccdglobal.org

sions and ongoing populations in prison and jails, probation and parole, capital punishment, ... • Disparity in the juvenile justice system is the worst at

nccdglobal.org/sites/default/files/publication_pdf/creat...

1 In 3 Black Males Will Go To Prison In Their Lifetime ...

One in every three black males born today can expect to go to prison ... It argues that racial disparity ... The drug war led the country's population ...

huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/racial-disparities-criminal-ju...

PDF Health Reform and Criminal Justice: Addressing Health ...

the population in prison. ... convened Health Reform and Criminal Justice: Addressing Health Disparities among the Racial and Ethnic Minority Populations in Jails.

cochs.org/files/health_disparities/Health_Dispariti...

Disparities in Prison Populations Essay -- penal system ...

penal system, felony, minority, youth, gangs - Disparities in Prison Populations

123helpme.com/disparities-in-prison-populations-preview...

PDF Written Submission of the American Civil Liberties Union on ...

racial disparities in sentencing decisions in the United States, which result from disparate treatment ... nonviolent LWOP prison population in Louisiana ...

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/141027_iachr_r...

The Top 10 Most Startling Facts About People of Color and ...

Sophia Kerby examines some of the most troubling racial disparities in our criminal-justice system and makes the case ... The prison population grew by 700 percent ...

www.americanprogress.org" ">https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top...

More results

United States - Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities ...

III. INCARCERATION AND RACE. ... an even more significant measure of the extent of racial disparities in state prison populations and of the sheer magnitude of black ...

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm

welcome1 15 weeks 10 hours ago
#44

Your attitude is the reason i wonder if the US is screwed. My last comment and i am done. The far left is just as bad as the far right. It is true beyond any doubt. You WANT racism so you can justify yours.

rs allen 15 weeks 10 hours ago
#45

Aah, did I hurt your feelings?

My mistake, I thought I was talking to a grownup, a man, someone that thought he knew something of the real world, some one that wanted to know more of the world.

Sorry, my bad. Carry on with your self-defeating life.

rs allen 14 weeks 6 days ago
#46

One does start to wonder about some one that reopens a subject talked about a year ago and then walks away in a huff when push comes to shove. Was he just some young high school grad that had some idealized unrealities dancing through his head from white washed history class? Or was he's perhaps a gen xer that still believes that compromise makes for better? Or maybe he was just an intern filling in at a stormfront trolling station and trying his best.

In any case welcome1 should have done some homework before stepping into this lions den. Hello hello welcome of 1, how long have you been around here? Do you know the history of any of the people you decided to try and talk past with your BS thrown around? In fact how much history period DO YOU KNOW other then today everybody seems to be at everyone elses throat? Any ideas on how we got here other than I need someone elses racism (implying I'm am at fault) ? Anything else? That's your defense for your generalities and BS you threw-up from the beginning of reopenning this thread and you got called out on, only that I need someone elses racism because I'm racist?

Go back to school boy.

Learn something, pretty much any place on this earth when the star spangled banner is played almost all within ear shot start running for cover............And particularly anxiously so if they happen to have brown or black skin. In fact I dare you to come up with even one place america has brought 'peace and prosperity' to by any means other than genocide. Just one place.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 14 weeks 5 days ago
#47

Welcome1 stop trying to bill yourself as a liberal progressive, because you're NOT. Not even close.

welcome1 14 weeks 3 days ago
#49

I am not a liberal progressive as I stopped being when I realized I was wrong. I have had friends that still very progressive and are Super closed minded just like all of you. There is no talking or having any semplance of a conversation with you because you are totally set in closed minded ways. You only want to talk to people that agree with your beliefs. It is like talking to a brick wall. I don't run away from anything or anybody. Ask yourself if you are really open minded which if you are being truthful you will find out that you are not. Why is Oregon / Washington so left minded. Because they are almost all white and they all think alike. That is the reason most of you would be happy there. I prefer not to live in a non-diverse place. This is Psych 101. You guys are soooo easy to read. You are racist and closed minded. Now I am really done even though I said I was before. I have to go back to contributing to society and wasting time on this topic. I came across this article by accident since the topic came up. I was curious. Why are you still checking the article since you said it is a year old? Don't check the article or comment if you are done with the conversation. Thank you for at least living in Canada and not being able to vote in the US. We have enough closed minded people here already.

rs allen 14 weeks 3 days ago
#50

Fool you are the one that quit the topic. I haven't and won't. The only reason I didn't contribute earlier is because something of a hotter topic was probably more relevant at the time. So I'm here now........what about it? I'm willing to go the rounds with you but I as well as others are more than willing to call bullshit bullshit. Which is a far cry from being closed minded. Closed minded is when one is unwilling to accept facts as you have so ablely demonstrated.

Add comment

Login or register to post comments