"And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave"

Francis Scott Key's "The Star-Spangled Banner,"

Comments

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 11 weeks 2 days ago
#1

Quote Welcome1, " am not a liberal progressive as I stopped being when I realized I was wrong." ARE you trying to tell us this Trump presidency is America acting rationally? That denying science, denying climate change, interferring with personal of lives of people are sound policies for this government? Are you suggesting , that not providing cheap easily accessible health for all citizens is good government policy, that allowing 50 thousand fellow citizens to die each year of treatable illness is good policy ? Are you suggesting allowing the drug companies servicing the US to be allowed to name whatever price they want, because it was George w bush and Reublicans in 2006 that legisalated just that. Are you suggesting taking away the solid safety net of government seniors pensions and replacing it with a hogpog of unlegislated private sector players is good government policy? You know WELCOME1 I find it so hard to respond to people like you , because you're either a bot paid to come here and disrupt rational reasoned compasionate thinking or you're a MORON, who doesn't derserve even to be recognized.

welcome1 11 weeks 2 days ago
#2

I never addressed those issues and am not saying those are necessarily wrong. I am just irritated with the Star Spangled Issue. Our country can not be ruled by Political Correctness. And I am not okay with Trump's stupid bs. I did not even vote for the guy and am already looking forward to voting for someone else. I was highly irritated that we got stuck with Trump, Hillary and Bernie. Trump is a liar and maybe a nut, Bernie is old and says whatever people want to hear (no REAL plan) and Hillary is opportunist who was just out for what was best for her. I am calling a cease fire as I won't agree with you on this issue and you won't with me on the Star Spangled issue. I am sure I can find flaws in Canada of some sort but I don't pretend to know what is best for Canada. Oh Well! Life needs to move on! The world is so screwed up right now and we need to accept our differences and move forward. I am/was just stating that pretending certain issues are important calls attention away from real issues. What if a bunch of white NFL players kneeled for something like blacks commiting crimes. I bet that would be offensive to you but WHY? If they are going to kneel than kneel for the real issue which is black on black crime.

welcome1 11 weeks 2 days ago
#3

Why are we being such d__ks to each other anyways? We don't even know each other other than this discussion. I apologize for calling you a racist and close minded even though I don't really know you. And you need to apologize for calling me a moron and basically a worthless piece of s___. We are hurting each others feelings. :)

rs allen 11 weeks 2 days ago
#4

Yeh you may get some sort of appology from zap but I'm still here motherf'ker and don't expect me to do anything likewise.

You keep throwing chafe into the wind trying to avoid the crux of the arguement. Which is, that the usa was founded as a jingoistic and racist society from the beginning and has never stopped being so in any way shape or form even unto today.

The first thing you tried was, 'oh the biggest problem in the black community is only a socio-economic problem'. Well duh. What you left out and will very likely not want to discuss is THE WHY that is a problem. In case you've never heard of the term it's called institutional racism. And in the fifty years since, oh glory be, we actually have the right to vote (gee, thank-you white america) I have not only witnessed the slow but steady taking away of that fundimental right but a hardening within the racist institutional structure itself. And trumpkof is only something of a more honest represention of it is all he is.

So now you hope to deflect again with black on black crime. Care to compare those stats next to white on white crime? Last I checked they were somewhere around 7 or 8 percent of each other in respect to a given crime number within their respective populations. Or if you prefer another type of stat; poor urban black on black crime comes in at about 51 per 1000, poor urban white on white crime about 56 and a 1/2 per 1000. Hmmm, looks to me like your white football players should be taking the knee about white on white crime.

But unless it is about "justice for all" it would be all for naught. Because white privilege and institutional racism would still exist would still be denied and with a continueing reenforcement of it's attempt at white domination over all those, ahem you know, 'those others'.

Try to contribute more to society than being a post in the ground with some white propaganda tacked on.

truthbtold2017's picture
truthbtold2017 9 weeks 6 days ago
#5

Ok 'Victim2' ....your id name says it all. People like you cling to the 'victim role' and no matter how much we change or what history we put CLEARLY infront of you that says this country is all about equality (no slavery wasn't right), you will only see yourself as the victim. My advice would be #1 get a job, #2 an education, #3 read a book outside your norm (study from an opposing view point), #4 hug someone you don't like and do something nice for them no matter how hurt you feel. If everyone did this, this country would be awesome! But if you don't your hatred, reverse racism, and bigotry will consume you and you will die a very angry person. May sound harsh and blunt but needed to be said.

czarofom's picture
czarofom 7 weeks 4 days ago
#6

"The racist third verse of the start spangled banner" - really? I know this article was written a year ago, but let's get realistic. Critics point out that Francis Scott Key was a slave holder and believed that African slaves were inferior to white people. Yes, both of those are true. In fact, just about all Americans back then, whether they favored or opposed slavery, believed the Africans to be inferior. In fact, the only group of Americans who truly believed in equality then were the Quakers. So, if Key was a racist, then everyone except the Quakers were racist, and that's about 95% of all Americans. We have a problem in this country when we try to apply our 20th and 21st century values and rationale to the way things were 200 years ago. Stop it already.

Let's look at some important facts. Key was only an amateur poet, and not very good. Key was also a lawyer, and we all know how screwy lawyers write, now and back then. The only one who could accurately make sense of the 3rd verse is Key, and he's not around anymore. All the geniuses who think they know exactly what it means really know nothing.

Remember that the British had occupied the Chesapeake Bay for a year before the battle, and approx 4,000-5,000 slaves escaped to British warships. From these slaves, the British enlisted approx 600 "Colonial Marines", who the British trained and equipped as soldiers. They participated in the burning of Washington D.C. and were attached to the assault force that was supposed to attack Baltimore. The British saw Baltimore as a nest of pirates who frequently attacked British merchant ships, and they planned to burn down the entire city, unlike Washington where they targeted just government buildings. It seems that Key's 3rd verse is a swipe at the British for using runaway slaves as Marines and then failing to accomplish their mission. When he refers to the "band who so vauntingly swore", that is not likely the former slaves but most likely the Brits. In his excitement over the American victory, Key seems to mix references to the Colonial Marines and mercenaries (hirelings) in the 3rd verse. Did Key demonstrate animosity and disdain for these Colonial Marines? Oh yeah! They participated in the burning of Washington D.C. just 3 weeks earlier, so does anyone think they weren't hated by most Americans? They were now the sworn enemy of the U.S. That's not racism (our 20th/21st century definition), THAT'S WAR! The Colonial Marines were also part of the Battle of North Point on the eastern outskirts of Baltimore the day before the Fort McHenry bombardment. The British field commander at North Point was killed by an American sniper, and the land assault on Baltimore was delayed for another day. The American ranks swelled to 3 times that of the British, who saw this and withdrew.

So, stop this absolutely stupid racist nonsense. There are plenty of other racists that we can fight today.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 7 weeks 4 days ago
#7

Quote czarofom, "So, if Key was a racist, then everyone except the Quakers were racist, and that's about 95% of all Americans." Sorry that's not evidence that your make believe assumption based on alot other assumptions.

Quote " British had occupied the Chesapeake Bay for a year before the battle, and approx 4,000-5,000 slaves escaped to British warships. From these slaves, the British enlisted approx 600 "Colonial Marines", who the British trained and equipped as soldiers." "these Colonial Marines They participated in the burning of Washington D.C. just 3 weeks earlier, so does anyone think they weren't hated by most Americans? They were now the sworn enemy of the U.S. That's not racism (our 20th/21st century definition), THAT'S WAR!"

Noticed that you skimmed over all historically recorded facts that Francis Scott Keys was racist who owned black slaves and who criminally prosecuted abolitionists.
"He was pro-slavery, period. He thought that slavery was the white man's constitutional right, period."

There were between 400,000 to 600,000 SLAVES in the US, so to suggest that 600 black Colonial Marines who participated in the burning of the White House , gave excuse for the enslavement and mistreatment of blacks in America is ludacris. This was ALL about MONEY, America establishing their economy using free labor . Americas first sin was the enslavement and mistreatment of defenseless human beings for profit and it has set the tone for the make up of your society ever since. Everyone but Americans know white Americans are racist. Nice TRY though.

Alberto Ceras 2's picture
Alberto Ceras 2 7 weeks 4 days ago
#8

Ludacris

ludaversal.com

Christopher Brian Bridges, better known by his stage name Ludacris, is an American rapper and actor. Ludacris is the founder of Disturbing tha Peace, an imprint distributed by Def Jam Recordings. Ludacris has won Screen Actors Guild, Critic's Choice, MTV, and Grammy Awards.More at Wikipedia

as opposed to ludicrous

czarofom's picture
czarofom 7 weeks 4 days ago
#9

zapdam - you are stuck on stupid. You missed my point completely. We are referring to the 3rd verse of Key's poem. You are applying contemporary meaning to something that happened 200 years ago. That would be just about as effective as the Irish accusing the English today of centuries of crimes against humanity, namely ethnic cleansing in Northern Ireland. That is a contemporary concept that we have only begun to appreciate when we saw what was happening in Kosovo in the 1980s. There is plenty of evidence to support it historically, but that was then, this is now. The 3rd verse is not a racist verse for all of the valid reasons I stated. You twisted what I said attemptng to justify your meager argument that it is racist. There is nothing I wrote that suggested that 600 black Colonial Marines who participated in the burning of the White House gave excuse for the enslavement and mistreatment of blacks in America. On the contrary, the actions of those Colonial Marines simply justified Key's indirectly referring to them in the 3rd verse. For Americans to be very angry with the Colonial Marines and then celebrate the defeat of the British troops east of Baltimore was not racist, IT WAS WAR!! I didn't skim over the facts about Key. I didn't mention them because they were not relevant to the 3rd verse of the poem. My point was that Key was a typical white American of that period living in a slave state. Again, you are stuck on stupid, you moron. What is written about Key today is usually spun to detract from the national anthem, and you are one of those detractors. You fail to note that he blocked a white lynch mob from breaking into a jail to hang a black prisoner. That must be the act of a true racist, right? He was not much different from other white Americans of the time, except that he was a lawyer. Now you say that "Everyone but Americans know white Americans are racist." Hold on, let me ask my black girlfriend what she thinks of that..... Oh, ok honey. She thinks I'm being polite when I say you are stuck on stupid and a moron. She had even more colorful comments about you not suitable for this blog.

czarofom's picture
czarofom 7 weeks 4 days ago
#10

zapdam - "Everyone but Americans know white Americans are racist." I'm sorry it took me so long to realize this, but you are a U.S. hater. It would be so much simpler if you just admitted that. I happen to love the U.S., and I love the Canadians. From the Canadians I know, you don't seem to be a typical Canadian. I was at Haitian bbq in Laval. The only white Canadians there were a few Quebecers. Everyone knew I was the only American there, and I was treated with dignity, respect and a lot of love. We ate, drank and laughed a lot. Why are you so full of hate toward white Americans?

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 7 weeks 3 days ago
#11

So I'M an American hater because i point out racism in America and also point out that this racism runs deeply into the past history of America, including the liquidation of First Nations people and theft of their land.. Perhaps I'm also an American hater because i also point out the US created death toll in Iraq has now passed one million , mostly innocent civilians. Perhaps i'm an American hater for outing Mi Lai massacre by Us troops in Vietnam or the 4 Vietnamese million who died fighting to repel American invaders. Perhaps i'm an American hater because i object with US companies like Monsanto who pollute our food supply with profitable frankenfood. Perhaps i'm an American hater because i write about a mass murder happening EVERY DAY in the US and the US 300 million plus guns. Perhaps it the redition carried out by your CIA under Bush's orders , the torture site, the disappearances. Perhaps its the obsenity called GITMO. maybe i'm an America hater for railing at the stupidity of electing Trump. Perhaps the 60 plus governments the US has overthrown since the 1950's because they weren't US friendly. . America has earned its bad reputation and is well deserved. If you want to live in a fantasy bubble don't ask me to join you.

czarofom's picture
czarofom 7 weeks 3 days ago
#12

Zap dam - Terrific. At least you admit to being a hater. In fact, your hatred runs so deep I'm surprised you haven't acted on it before now. Instead, you just hang out on this site and spew your verbal diarrhea. You have managed to regurgitate a few horrific events the U.S. was involved in, and somehow you seem to think that it proves your pointless point about the 3rd verse. No luck here. You are no better than any of the so-called racists you condemn.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 7 weeks 3 days ago
#13

NO actually i was trying to understand why SOME Americans might call me an American hater, so your wrong i'm NOT admitting to hating Americans as i pointed out in my latest rant inspired by you. In fact i went to great lengths to point out at the end, i don't hate Americans at all , i mentioned they to are victims of the very same forces the dictate US policy. If anything i actually feel very badly for my American friends. You excepted, because your so pig headed i don't think anyone one can break through that thick numb skull of yours, your untouchable. So go get programmed and manipulated by FOX NEWS owned by a rich Aussie and a Saudi Prince and if that doesn't do it for you go google InfoWars let him rant at you, because as the deposition he gave in court, its all acting any ways. But i know its real to you.

czarofom's picture
czarofom 7 weeks 3 days ago
#14

Zapdumb - none of my black or white American or Canadian friends think like you. You are consumed with hatred. And you still haven't proven your point about the 3rd verse. You are the epitome of the old expression, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and in your case, a very little bit of knowledge.

rs allen 7 weeks 2 days ago
#15

Yeh mf'ker, there's plenty of racists today to fight alright enough. And czar is a good name for one.

America was on a genocidal mission in those 'grand early days' and has barely let up since. So for all your attempt at some kind of high distain can come from what can only be imagined as just other example of 'american expectionalism' and bigotry come racism. What, did you think you were going to get off scott free with your bullshit? America was the aggressor in the war of 1812. Get your history straight if you want to pretend you know so much.

Aah well, we can't apply yesteryears valves to todays. Then how come our black, brown and red communities are still largely segregated? Then why are there still slave patrols circling to be sure it stays that way (see driving while black). And how is it the slave patrols still are shooting us down in open day light and no justice forth coming?

Don't give us any of, oh that was so yesterday crap. White racism and bigotry is the first defintion of what the american experience is. White racism is part and parcel within the dna of the culture and government form (see white privilege). At least have the dignity to own it ya czar mf'ker.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 7 weeks 1 day ago
#16

rs allen to the rescue, yeah!!!! ..Thank You my friend. As for you 'welcome1', thanks for reviving my post and giving it a second life, although i know that wasn't your intent. Your so called 'Canadian friends' which i doubt, i'm sure are just like you, because we have our share of pig headed numb skulls like you. Luckliy though Canada has political history of leaning left, so people up here just ignore people like you. You know I actually feel bad calling you names, being so abrassive, because you're right it is so unCanadian. Perhaps i'm just suffering from Trump burnout . All the best.

ztg's picture
ztg 6 weeks 3 days ago
#17

Oh this is rich! this sums up america as whole, its so funny.

1) people are not aware or care about the racist part of the anthem. the same way they are not aware or care about the racist opression in america.

2) its the dark secret thats in the open but everyone doesnt see

3) despite this, you make no action to change the racism. and forget that it shows blacks that their putting hope in a nation that wont stand for them.

was i talking about the anthem or america as a whole?

Derspite america moving out of its way to show acceptance anf fairness to everyone, it doesnt for blacks.

and this is just another example of how americas foundation is against blacks, the freedoms promised were not intended for us, america has shown thats still the case today.

anyone who doubt that, remember this pledge. not in that is acrtually racist. but that it was something that you have seen as great but in reality has give the middle finger to blacks. let this be an example if this has always being like this behind your back. What else is. prehaps the stories are not stories, prehaps the excuses are not just excuses.

once you accept that maybe you'll see it. and if you do the research maybe you see it all.

but its only then when for the better change can happen. because you can make no changes in delusion, only in the unconfortable truth of reality. because then you can see where you are on the map and move forward to improvement

so when you truelly see the iniuqity, repent, not just with words, but with action. because anyone here can say, but who here will do?

thats for those of you who have hope in this country.

because i dont, not anymore. you guys have let it go one too far

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 6 weeks 3 days ago
#18

ztg my friend i hate dumping on Americans, because like I've said they as much a victim of the same forces who keep America in perpetual wars going. I post this article today,it hasn't cleared approval. I was astounded when i first seen how an average Joe you and I, are as much a target of the oligrach/ military alliance. Here's what i posted there's a link to a documentary PSYOPS ,that will truly fuck your head up and make you question everything .

FAKE NEWSOct. 9, 2017 4:17 pmBy zapdam.

'TRUMP is right about one thing , there definitely is FAKE NEWS.'

'REMEMBER IRAQ and the statue of Saddam being taken down by what appeared to be a combination of local liberated Iraqi civilians and US soldiers. It was ALL a LIE, that whole scene was scripted and carried out by US PSYWAR QPERATIONS. We were ALL duped into believing this was a spontaneous act of jubilation of Iraqis. Truth is the viewing world was being had, with the help of course of the Corporate 'News' Media who aided and abetted this lie and the manipulation of news and information. There are US Soldiers who still alive today and those died believing they were fighting Saddam to stop the use of imminent nuclear attack on America.'

http://metanoia-films.org/psywar/

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