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k. allen a Thom Hartmann blogger just posted Israel receives 3 billion dollars a year (3000 million dollars) from a broke America, has single payer health care for all its citizens..

PLUS " Israel has a comprehensive social security system that pays out a series of benefits and grants to those in financial need. The social insurance system covers every citizen of Israel and the social assistance program is a series of means tested benefits that are applicable to those aged 20 or older."

PLUS besides giving all youth free education from kindergarden to the equivalent of grade 12, " Higher education is the only big-ticket item that’s still consistently and dramatically cheaper in Israel. The annual cost of tuition at an Israeli university (which is set by the government) is today $2,890."

PLUS "Israel’s abortion law now among world’s most liberal. Despite its conservative government leanings, government approves free pregnancy termination for nearly all women, and it barely causes a ripple."

https://www.yadezra.net/media/binyamin-netanyahu/?gclid=CPiy1_uJ1dACFQUQ...

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/jewish-ga/.premium-1.556481

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-abortion-law-now-among-worlds-most-...

Comments

Legend 2 years 24 weeks ago
#1

Then why do Republicans love them. There are no Jewish Republicans that I know of. Several Democrats.

zapdam.'s picture
zapdam. 2 years 24 weeks ago
#2

Legend the Christian right a powerful ,rich and vocal part of the right wing vote, truly believe that the Jews must be in Israel for the second coming of Christ to take place.
Also the right are afraid of a well funded political savvy Jewish lobby who are backed by a large influential Jewish voter population. Republicans like the liberals are not willing to take a moral stand against Israel for fear of political repercussions. Bottom line Republican politicians like liberals are cowards.
Another part of the Israeli equation is the fact that most of the aid given Israel comes in the form of military aid, which in turn supports Americas war profiteers, who may have companies in right wing jurisdictions. This aid is in fact a 3 billion US government subsidies ,given some of the most powerful corporations in America.

k. allen's picture
k. allen 2 years 24 weeks ago
#3

That rings true,Zap, and thank you for all the facts and reference materials. For the record, you just quoted Legend above. My response was (and still is):


"Here's a thought, just occurred to me ... if Israel has single payer health care, and no death penalty - as challenged as America is to institute those policies, I wonder if that was the only way to plant the seed ...?"

Beyond that, I still say it sounds like a good deal. Why can't we do it here?

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 2 years 24 weeks ago
#4

Zap: Check out what US foreign aid has been to Africa. In the last few years, more than 4 times that of Israel's foreign aid. And for very little return as these "allies" are tenuous at best.

The Us also has Social Security, and has welfare, like Israel.

Single payer health care would be harmful to the middle class of this country. The middle class is the backbone of the US mainstream, and any effort to socialize health care completely and provide another disincentive to work "on the books" is not logical or helpful to the US. (Unless one thinks yet another "gimmee" to support disfunctional subcultures will help the economy, significantly reduce unwed motherhood, or get more persons in the "honest" economy).

If single payer works for Israel, it is because it has a common culture that requires work for survival, and a much smaller , homogenous population that ostracizes sloth and/or harming the larger society as a whole by not working when one can. Israel also carefully screens and limits their immigrants to those that it is felt will not be a security threat, and will help Israel's economy. There is also mandatory military service. Israel is a totally different culture than ours, and in a totally different situation in terms of its own survival.

The US would harm the productive workers and taxpayers of the US with single payer, while redistributing wealth, and incentive to work hard, from the middle class mainstream to cultural underclasses that have shown less and less desire to "get with the program".

Israel has been, and will be, our ally in the Middle East. The only reason it still exists is because of its tenacity and military excellence. If the Oil-Rich Arab nations simply gave similar billions to relocationg the Palestinian refugees, the conflict in the Middle East would be significantly reduced. Why don't they? Why don't they publicly and through international agreement recognize Israel's right to exist?

( Also, if this aid to Israle is a 3 Billion "subsidy" to powerful corporations in America, it appears therefore that alot of this money will come back to the US. Unlike other foreign aid given that is never seen again by US taxpayers, or used, as foreign aid, should be, as a means of political, military, or economic leverage.

zapdam's picture
zapdam 2 years 24 weeks ago
#5

My godTomDorr for an intelligent guy you really have a fucked up thinking process. 'America already has social security and welfare.' Social security these dark suited Trumpites intend to privatize for profit Tom.

' Single payer would be harmful to the middle class' , so you say. TomDorr that comment is just ridiculous. Right now your health care is absolutely the worst system, the most inefficient and costly, of all countries in the modern world. You spend twice to three times what other countries spend on health care, yet you still have 30- 40 million people uninsured or under insured, not to mention on average 40 thousand of your fellow Americans die each year of treatable illness because they have no insurance at all. Those are facts TomDorr.

You pay more taxes than Canadians who have free single payer government run health care, PLUS you pay an additional on average $14,500.00 in insurance payments for a family of four, that Canadians don't have to and even then you are subject to price hikes each year, plus deductibles and co pays. Your private insurance is so crooked , Obama had to legislate they could only skim 20% administration fee off the top, instead of their normal 30-40%. Canada's single payer admin fee is 6%. In ten years under those premiums , Americans would be paying 140 thousand dollars just in premiums, over the same period Canadians would pay absolutely zero. I mean Tom those facts are irrefutable , but somehow in your screwed up thinking , you think everything is just hunky-dory. According to your own ' CIA Fact Book' , Americas health is the most costly of 191 countries, you're 42nd in the world in life expectancy, in infant mortality, an American child under one years old, would have a better chance of survival in Serbia , than America. Tom your health care is a disgrace, but you think its just hunky-dory.

Quote TomDorr " US would harm the productive workers and taxpayers of the US with single payer, while redistributing wealth, and incentive to work hard," WTF does that mean, as if being sick and unable to have health care makes you a lesser person.

That' gimme subculture' that you constantly rail at are your corporations, owned by American fat cats, who pay little or no personal taxes and own these corporations that 60% pay no taxes. Speaking of taxes ,your man Drumpf who supposedly saved all those US jobs from going to Mexico , did it by getting Pence to get the Indiana tax payer to cough up 7 million dollars as bribe to the company Carrier to stay, with no gaurantees even Tom. Divide a thousand jobs into $7,000,000 dollars of tax payer money Tom.

TomDorr quote " Oil-Rich Arab nations simply gave similar billions to relocationg the Palestinian refugees". First off Tom , those Palestinians living in Palestine are not refuges, they are citizens . Using your logic , why the hell doesn't America take in six million Israeli Jews,it would be cheaper. Hell these Israelis would feel right at home with Americas 6 million American Jews.

TomDorr quote "this (yearly)aid to Israel is a 3 Billion "subsidy" to powerful corporations in America, it appears therefore that alot of this money will come back to the US.", so let me get this straight TomDorr, your ok with your taxes going to Americas armaments industry, the war profiteers, but there be hell to pay according to you , if the US wants to give single payer health care to all of its citizens. Again WTF.

TomDorr have you been drinking , if not then again WTF are you talkng about.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/21...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/22...

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/20...

Legend 2 years 24 weeks ago
#6

Do not confuse Tomdorr with facts. He has absolutely no idea what they are. Read post #2 of MY FEAR.

TomDorr's picture
TomDorr 2 years 23 weeks ago
#7

Zap: No, I have not been "drinking", just because I disagreed with many of the statements in your blog. I read your links, and can respond without treepidation.

First: The US does have social security, which was never meant to be anything more than a basic security net, and welfare, in its many forms. The "dark suits" may try to privatize social security, but there is no indication whatsoever they will be successful. Plans to lift the cap on social security to make it "viable" by the DEMS would be more harmful, as Social Security would lose its political support. A major problem of Social security's viability is that too many payouts have been legislated throughout the years (when SS ran a big surplus) for causes that have nothing to do with retirement security.

Social Security, under its present "pay in" and "pay out" formula will do fine, as it is politically popular enough in its present state, to survive even if additional subsidies are needed.

Obamacare (The ACA), has insured 11,000,000 previously uninsured people. That is true. But they are only insured, for the most part, due to generous subsidies paid by middle class taxpayers, most of whom had good health insurance. The ACA as it stands, is unsustainable, without rising insurance costs for the middle class, and application of the ( 24%) "Cadillac Tax" on those employers who have the audacity to offer their employyes insurance deemed "too good" by government technocrats.

Single payer would be a disaster, as those thet pay no taxes would get the exact same healthcare (under the "equal protection act" of the US Constitution) as those middle and upple middle class workers who would pay more in taxes to get less. If you like your Canadian system, Zap, that's fine. I like my negotiated and sacrificed-for health care the way it is. ( Recently, I had cataract surgery that was 110% successful, with an experienced surgeon of my choosing, without delay, at my convenience, at no cost to me). I and the 10's of millions of others who sacrificed wages and benefits to get these benefits and earned them by working, will not accept a "single payer" system that penalizes skilled workers and years of contractual sacrifices. Only someone in my position "who has been drinking" would even consider this unfair redistribution. Or the continuance of the ACA as it presently stands.

Of the 30 million or more people living in America, who are uninsured, it is estimated that eight million are here illegally, and are thus entitled to nothing. There is certainly a better way than the ACA to ensure every American citizen has a very bare-boned health care system, with limited options and tort, without the excesses and government overreach of the ACA or the middle/upper middle class crushing potential of single payer.

I have done some previous research and and have found that there is little evidence to clain that I pay more taxes than a Canadian would. Not at my income, or my family income. Or even the Average US middle Class family income.

When the value of the Canadian vs US dollar is taken into effect in terms of the marginal tax rates for income tax, when deductions are taken into account, family incomes over $ 38,000-41,000 do better in the US. When the Provincial VAT is taken into account, versus much lower state sales taxes; as well as the lower price of Gas in the US, I believe we do much better, tax-wise, in the US. ( Granted, provincial VAT varies as well as marhinal taxes in both countries. But for the middle class and above, US workers pay less than Canadians of similar ( Dollar value-adjusted) incomes.

My use of the term "productive" means those who have worked hard in school to educate themselves, worked hard in the economy to advance themselves, married before they had children, spent within their means, and stayed on the right side of the law. Not that hard, or impossible, in the US, for all groups, if you simply have the values and initiative to succeed. ( Legal Immigrants from all continents, including African and Asia, prove this every day.)

The gimmee culture of corporations, admittedly, is one that must be changed. But that in no way lessens the huge costs to the middle class that are incurred by the cultural disfunctions of those who suffocate themselves in their own victimhood of horribly poor life choices. These "gimmees" get more dependent and empowered the more they are given.At this stage, the ACA punishes "on the books" income and rewards under the table workers who don't pay or disclose taxes.

In terms of Israel, I don't have a problem supporting them, as they are the only middle east nation that supports the west and actually has anything resembling a democracy. If the Arab nations wanting "peace" and what is best for the Palestinians refuse to publicly and politically support Israels right to even exist, where can diplomacy or practical solutions advance. From whom?

Finally, the US Defense industry is a vital and viable on in the US. Economically and for the Defense of the US and its allies. I will not apologise in my support of the research and products they support. If not for the US superiority in defense technology and superior products, the USSR, China, and tinpot dictatorships like North Korea and Cuba would have much, much more power.

Viewing from afar in Canada, Zap, and playing devil's advocate against US policy, culture, and foreign affairs, is great, I suppose, for provocative discussion. However, as one who lives in the US, and has taken advantage of its freedoms and opportunities, I feel I have a much better perspective of the good and bad, as well as what is really happening in this great country.

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