Daily Topics - Monday December 13th, 2010
By shawnt56
Truthout is proud to bring you an exclusive series from America's No. 1 progressive radio host, Thom Hartmann. We'll be publishing weekly installments of Hartmann's acclaimed new book, "Rebooting the American Dream: 11 Ways to Rebuild Our Country." We invite Truthout readers to join us as, chapter by chapter, we explore these groundbreaking ideas for national transformation.
Quote of the Day: "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance" James Madison
Hour One: How should Progressives respond to the tax compromise?
Hour Two: "What Progressives Don't Understand About Obama" - Thom speaks with acclaimed author and former UC Berkeley Professor Ishmael Reed - http://nyti.ms/g5rktA
Hour Three: The Madness of Obamanomics?! Thom debates Peter Ferrara, of the American Civil Rights Union - www.theacru.org
Comments
#2
Thom the Capitulator?
In two years if the economy improves, the Republicans will say, "See tax cuts for the wealthy work." It will never be a victory for Obama and he will be defeated in 2012. How is it that the Republican bent to the will of a minority of Tea Baggers. It is time to hold fast and make the Democrats do the right thing.
None of those things you just mentioned will never happen, because Obama is weak. Sorry, Thom.you and Obama have lost me.
#3
President Obama is not a Democrat. The DLC is not Democratic. President Obama is a “Ben Nelson Democrat.” The President does not in broad or even narrow principle agree with the American people UNLESS you consider “people” to include only entities incorporated to mitigate liability.
#4
If the economy improves in the next two years, Obama will be relected, no matter what the Republican'ts claim. But that's one hell of a big IF, super big IF, an implausible IF. I wouldn't hold my breath on it... good god I can only hope that the Republican's put forth a quasi decent candidate for PResident, because as it stands now, I expect we'll be getting a GOP PResident in 2013, sigh...
N
#5
How should Progressives respond to the tax compromise? There was a t-shirt in the 1970s entitled, “The Last Act of Defiance” with a mouse hanging ‘the finger’ to an eagle sweeping down upon it. Progressives/Liberals need to emulate the mouse . . .
#6
Prove to me that President Obama is not suffering a deficiency of character, malignancy of soul, disease of the mind. Call it PTSD, Stockholm Syndrome, battered wife behavior . . . OR just being a plain-Jane, good-old-fashioned pro-corporatist political whore, President Obama is a broken in an ugly, ugly way and always has been.
#7
It is unfathomable why Thom Hartmann, an intelligent man, has blinders so firmly affixed to his brain that he absolutely refuses to see that Obama is a right wing corporatist who is working hand in hand with Republicans to turn this country into an oligarchy. Obama did not "make a deal" with Republicans. He is not a clueless victim of their superior intelligence and craftiness. HE IS ONE OF THEM. Every single thing he has done since he conned Democrats into electing him has been for the benefit of millionaires and billionaires, yet Thom keeps waiting for him to become FDR. Obama doesn't want to be FDR. He wants a cushy job after he leaves office so he can become a billionaire like his friends. Thom keeps saying it is so important that Obama be re-elected. Why?! Whether we have Mit Romney for President or Obama, it makes no difference. Both of them will continue to destroy Social Security and the middle class along with it. What will it take to wake you up, Thom? In how many more ways can Obama stand with the Republicans against liberals in Conrgress before you see who he really is? We have to start working to replace Obush in the primaries. That is the only way we stand a chance of getting an authentic Democract into the White House instead of a clever con man who PRETENDS to be one while he destroys everything Democrats stand for.
#8
Why would President Obama fight with Boner the Orangeman? Although Boner was on TV this weekend in yet another drunken crying jag, he is President Obama's ideological best-buddy-forever and, in January, will be two heartbeats from the pResidency.
#9
I agree. No amount of reason will wake Thom Hartmann up. He is the best thing on the radio, yet he is failing miserably with his responsibility as a media member. Going along with the corporate media spin is hardly what we need for any chance to move America forward. His unwillingness to throw stones is spiritually healthy if we Americans have become religious about our political views and justice.
#10
Thom is in Denial!
We need 99 more Bernie Sanders' in the Senate, and he is an INDEPENDENT! What does that tell you? What does History tell you, Thom? There are many examples of our future, riddled in the past. I would submit to you that you can acknowledge that our democracy is broken. Dare I say we already have a plutocracy? With that, why do you assume that Obama will give us a SCOTUS judge that we will approve of? When he disappoints us with that, will you then be the Huey Long that we all hope you’ll become? Why aren’t you chaining yourself to the Whitehouse fence with Chris Hedges?
#11
Agree: But now that Thom has capitulated we are a shrinking clan.
I am still listening to Thom (cant get through on the phone) anticipating his waffle rhetoric.
Thom opened by saying there are "a lot more important things than this bill" .
I'm hoping Thom will go on to tell us all the things that are more important than the U.S. Economy. Or the increase of the transfer of wealth to the wealthy: the affirmation of Trickle-down principles: the destruction of the SS insurance..........
Please Thom Help us understand that it is OK for the US to go bankrupt. Perhaps Mexico will help us out.
#12
Obama is playing us to be fools. The dummy president Dubya got everything he wanted passed. I'm so tired of hearing we don't have enough votes. Remember the Bush Tax cut in 2001. Reconciliation! There was a vote last week or two where they had 53 votes to pass the middle class tax cuts and it was not able to be brought to the floor because the republicans said no. Its a tax bill perfect for reconciliation. So what happen? Why didn't Obama fight for that and push Harry Reid? Why? Because he is not interested in helping people. He is helping billionaires and it was perfect when he marched out Bill Clinton. Obama now is Bill Clinton and only cares about his own fame a his families future prosperity. I cried the night that he got elected. I thought America was really moving forward. And that makes me very angry, I shed tears for a total phony. Toying with my emotions is not forgivable. That is beyond contempt.
#13
At some point we need to get around the concept of "others" in our environment. We are all Africans if you look at the evidence. Splitting people into races is beyond ignorance at this point in history. It is the attempt to control people through lies and fearmongering.
#14
I can't listen anymore. I watched Bernie Sanders Friday and it made me very happy to see someone speak the truth. It was 8 and a half hrs. of America at its best. Unfortunately I also take it as our last spoken words of truth. America is dead. The ideals on which our country was founded have been murdered, The pursuit of happiness and liberty, a Union of we the people to promote general welfare was dealt the final blow in 2010. In January it was Citizens United which was effective by November and will only get more effective as time march on. And in December our so called socialist far left President transferred more wealth to the idle rich and paved the way for the end of Social Security, Medicare, and even his own health care plan. Rest in peace America and good luck to all of us plain and simple people.
#15
The Middle Class is drowning. The 'white conservative patriarchy' that watched their 'powers' diminished by the empowerment of 'minorities' during the 'lifetime' of that Middle Class, has convinced the 'drowning victim' that those who would rescue them, Progressives, are, to quote Mr Limpballs, the poison that is 'drowning' them.
Ever try to rescue a drowning victim that thinks you are the problem.
Listening to Progressives that 'won't vote for Obama again' talk about how 'dumb' and 'crazy' the uninformed conservatives are is maddening. Karl Rove thought Progressives would be an endangered species by now! and this attitude is WHAT HE WAS BANKING ON!
So, the 'tea party' is crazy and your answer is to GUARANTEE their success??
Politics is 'baby steps'!
Politics is messaging!
Politics is PERCEPTION!
All things Progressives have a hard time dealing with.
After Viet Nam, we Progressives thought, this Country would never be dumb enough to do that again and we quit banging the drum.
We have to 're'educate the drowning victim that not only are Progressives are the ones that will rescue them BUT we CREATED that American Middle Class.
and if you think voting or not voting, a Republican victory is the answer you are as crazy as they are.
#16
Things will only get worse, Thom. It's just a matter of how worse, how fast. We can continue to hold our noses and vote for the Democratic Party to our own detriment. The fight is already lost! Our harbinger was when they trotted out Bill Clinton. All that supporting Obama will do is serve to slow and soften our descent into Neo-Feudalism. Obama has morphed into the Obama/GOP alliance.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/12/11
President NAFTA Backs President Shafta
#17
Bassface: I thought Obama was a Baby Step to the progressive but he has Taken Large Steps to the right at every opportunity.
Obama has NEVER asked his base to support an item in the progressive agenda. BUT he has ALWAYS pushed his base to accept the RIGHT wing agenda items. The Bully Pulpit has been used ONLY to support the republican party.
I Was Duped. I acknowledge It. Now it's time to Double my energy to fight against Obama in the 2012 primaries.
#18
Thom's point of view is based upon President Obama giving a crap about the American (flesh and blood) people . . . There is less than zero evidence that this meme even exists. While historical performance is not basis for potential future performance, it can be used to indicate the statistical highest probably of action given a defined set of conditions.
#19
Look,wake up folks...when I posted here 4weeks ago that you will now pay for taxes cuts for the rich
people were,like hey Pablito you don't know what you are talking about.
Well,look,understand,you don't have a voice,you have no representation.
How much have to occur for you to see,regardless of how much you voice your displeasure,you have to go along with what the rich folks want........congress didn't listen on the war,they didn't listen on health care,& now they don't care what you think on taxes for the rich.
You are beginning to hear all the silly excuses from those in the media including Thom Harthman,......let's not criticize the Prez cause it does no good.....Well folks you don't have a Prez ,the Prez is for rich people & so you are justified in criticizing him.In 2 yrs they will make the move to cut social security, It started with this tax compromise.And there isn't anything you can do about it.
#20
The Tax "Compromise" is President Obama's principles on raw and naked display.
There is no indication that he was drug into anything; the safer and probably more accurate assessment of the situation is that President Obama charged into this.
#21
What you suggest has never worked.
What you suggest is that what is happening now would be happening if McCain/Palin were in power.
What you suggest has never worked.
What you suggest is that you never heard Obama talk about 'no red or blue states but the United States' and while your answer has never worked the Republican Party is going to use your 'fantasy' of what Barack Obama was/is against you, just like they use indoctrination to control the 'right'.
The RNC wants you to go Green.
#22
Yes Thom, They will remember this Bill in 2012:
But rather than is saving his presidency.... It will Cost Him the Presidency.
You and Ratner have it exactly backwards. And this is a wait and see point if the Bill passes.
Lets do the "I Told you so" game. I promise to call your program ( if you still have one) every day for 2 weeks to remind you of the poor logic. I will not forget .
#23
Thom . . . You lose:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/scott-brown-defies-tea-party-backs-tax-cut-compromise.php
President Obama will never get any play on this . . . He has declared his Presidency superfluous.
#24
Christians Cannot Be Conservatives
CAN ONE BE A CHRISTIAN AND A CONSERVATIVE AT THE SAME TIME?
Two Thousand years ago in the midst of the Conservative, Militantly, Bellicose, Roman Empire and the parallel Rule of the Ultraconservative Conservative Herodian Kings and Priests, where the death penalty was a broadly used as it has been in Texas and Florida since the Bush advent therein, there came a man who opposed all of that for which they stood. He opposed the death penalty and much forgiving of sexual sins. (The woman caught in adultery John 8:1-11)
He despised greed/avarice which the Bushites Gekko say is Good!. Luke 16:19-31 The avaricious rich man
He opposed violence of any sort; he was by his own admission, "meek and mild." He advocated tolerance and acceptance of others. He offered free health care to any who approached him.
He also refused to condemn or judge others except for the rich who were avaricious and the hypocrites. He opposed judging others, a prime factor in the Bush administration IS judging others Luke 7: 37-42- judging others
He was dismissive of sexuality as a major judgmental concern. Luke 4:4-42 Samaritan woman at Jacob's Well
Jesus was, by the definitions, condemnation and attacks on Liberals by the Bushites and the "Christian" Right, a "bleeding Heart Liberal." They are indeed correct, because in his opposition to everything for which The Conservative Roman Empire and the Ultraconservative Conservative Herodian Kings and Priests, stood Jesus was and remains a Liberal. There is no way the Church can, without being hypocritical wriggle its way around the reality that one cannot be a Christian and a Conservative, any more than one can be a Christian and support the slaughter in Iraq (A nation 12 times smaller than the USA, and lacking air force and navy at the time of the invasion), and the planned slaughters in Iran, and Venezuela.
Therefore, begs the question, CAN A PERSON BE BOTH A CHRISTIAN AND A CONSERVATIVE?
We need a strong moral and family life to bring back a strong middle class which is essential for a strong and healthy nation. We share in the problems our country faces. The state of the economy did not develop in the Obama administration. The problems we face as a nation have been long developing. The answer really lies in the teachings of Jesus and the church. We are a community and we live and die as a community. The good news is never too late and we are never without hope when there are people of good will. It is our responsibility to bring justice and good news to all.
Shalom
I have often been asked to describe my wife in one word. How can anyone describe a person in one word? However, if I am to describe my wife in one word, the word is Shalom. On my wife’s sixth-fifth birthday I put together what Shalom is and what my wife desires for our country and the world. I truly believe this is what my wife wants.
Here is what America and the world need in order to attain peace and justice on our planet for all of God’s children. Here is also what I believe God wants for His children and His vision for the world.
Shalom translated means peace but it is much more than peace. Shalom is a vision of social wholeness; a state of well being for all, where everyone has access to the goods of creation intended to meet the needs of all. Shalom is the substance of the biblical vision of one community embracing all creation where all enjoy the resources that make communal harmony joyous and effective.
Shalom is nothing less than God’s intended vision of the world, a dream of God that resists our tendencies for division, hostility, fear, lust, and misery. If there is to be well-being, it will not be just for the isolated and insulated individuals, it is security and prosperity granted to the whole community: the poor, the widow, the orphan, the immigrant, the tax collector and the sinner, the despised and the rejected, young and old, the have and the have nots, the powerful and the dependent. We are in it together. Together we stand before God’s blessings and together we receive the gift of life. Shalom comes only to the inclusive embracing community that excludes no one.
#25
rladlof is on a roll for December 13, 2010!
Week of December 13 - 19, 2010
Thom, here is the problem. We give one year to help the unemployed and two years for the rich to receive more tax cuts. That formula should be TWO YEARS for the unemployed and ONE YEAR for the rich. My reason for this change is because jobs will not be returning in our country for several generations.
Once the GOP takes hold of the WH and Congress, they will roll back health care and privatize social security and Medicare. The retirement age for these benefits will increase to seventy. Every two to three years will pass and the retirement age will increase to seventy-one and one half, seventy-three, seventy- four and one half, seventy-six, etc. Eventually, social security and Medicare will be history. No one will quality for these benefits even though you paid into these programs. The money that goes into these programs will be MORE WELFARE BENEFITS FOR THE RICH IN TAX CUTS.
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1232
The problem is our foreign policy.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Hey-Working-Class-Republic-by-Bia-Winter-101209-51.html
Interesting!
Most conservative ever!
#26
Yea, Go ahead!
Make Peter your President!
#27
Peter Ferrara sounds insane; he defaults into shut-down bullying as normal state of being. Always has and always will.
#28
Dump Peter Ferrara from your Rolodex.
It's difficult to not turn off the show when this guy is on.
#29
Thom, PLEASE DO NOT LET THE CONSERVATIVE CRAZIES FILIBUSTER ON YOUR SHOW!!!!!
#30
they say they're going to sttop shark attacks with fines. fine. fin. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/12/13/world/middleeast/AP-ML-Travel-Brief-Egypt-Shark-Attacks.html?ref=news
#31
Correct Bassface
Same party Midterm Presidential change has never worked. But Perhaps it will scare Obama to look a bit more left.
I have 5-6 months after my states primary to choose, But I know it will then be the lesser of two evils. I've voted in 12 straight Presidential elections and have never voted for a Republican.
A ' movement ' is needed
#32
@teleoklin - I didn't realize I voted for a Republican in '08.
#33
Good Point cmoore68 EOM
#34
1. I didn't vote for Obama. It was because of some of his comments during the campaign, which did not match my beliefs. I am disappointed that some of the progressives are making excuses for every capitulation he makes. If he is going to be afraid to stand up for things because he will be seen as an angry black man then we will never advance, and if the White House claims over-compromising as a victory then there truly is no reason to think that we will accomplish moving forward. Is tip-toeing really a next-best to stepping? He needed to stand up and be forceful and fight for things that the people that elected him wanted. And every time he compromises, the liberals start out by crying foul, and then later there is a reason why the compromise is acceptable, which mostly I hear is "Something is better than nothing". I don't know if that is a good campaign slogan...and one thing I really resent is feeling like I am forced to vote for a Democrat because we don't want Republicans voting Supreme Court Justices in...how then do I convince myself that I really have a vote of my own? Why would it be acceptable for progressives to vote for a party that is doing whatever they want because they think we have nowhere else to go? Where is the democracy? We can't play chess in real life, because the pieces don't get reset at the end of a match, some of the pieces disappear. And, if we can't compete with large corporations, millionaires, and billionaires that are buying the "representatives" now, how are we supposed to successfully infiltrate the party and turn it towards a progressive agenda? Who is going to listen?
#35
THOM HARTMANN IS WISHY WASHY!
ALL OVER THE PLACE!
DEAD WRONG!
AND AN APOLOGIST FOR RATS!!
Especially because two (2) solutions exist to block the OBAMA TAX CUTS.
Before I explain the two (2) solutions, PLEASE NOTE and allow me to state that I prefer much more a Bernie Sanders/Nancy Pelosi ticket in 2012!! Sanders and Pelosi are far more effective Populists than traitorous Obama!
First, Senator Sanders can still filibuster the bill in the Senate!!
Secondly,
(1) Let the BUSH TAX CUTS expire.
(2) In January, 2011, attach the Middle Class Tax Cuts and the Emergency Unemployment Insurance Extension to a Government funding or Military spending bill.
(3) Let the Republicans veto it and shut down the government, as they did during the Clinton administration.
(4) After a few days or a week, the Republicans will capitulate --- as they did under Clinton --- because the public and Obama will excoriate the Republicans, IF OBAMA HAS THE BACKBONE, THE SPINE, TO STAND UP TO THE REPUBLICANS, instead of berating and scolding his LOST BASE!! (Obama is a wimp, a traitor, a loser, whom I don't respect!)
(5) Then make the Middle Class Tax Cuts and Emergency Unemployment Insurance Extension retroactive to the first of the year. QED (Theorem proved!).
PSP [POSTSCRIPT PLUS]::---
PLEASE ADD these two words to your vocabulary::---
PSY-'CHOP-ATHY, I define in this context to be, THE TAKEOVER AND CONTROL OF ALL MODERN INSTITUTIONS BY PSYCHOPATHS.
POLITICAL PONEROLOGY::--- THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE UTILIZATION, ADJUSTMENT, AND ADAPTATION OF EVIL FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.
PLEASE CONSULT::---
1. Andrze M. Lobaczewski and Laura Knight-Jadczyk, Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes, 2007.
2. Bob Altemeyer, The Authoritarians, 2007.
3. Dr. Paul Babiak and Dr. Robert D. Hale, Professor Emeritus and Industrial Psychologist, respectively, Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work, 2007.
4. asb2525, Snakes in Suits, Skirts, and Military Garb: When Anal-Fixated Psychopaths Go to Work and RAW WAR!!, 2010 (to be e-mailed).
**5.
“Ponerology”: n. division of theology dealing with evil; theological doctrine of wickedness or evil; from the Greek: poneros -> evil'.
We are not proposing a “theological” study, but rather a scientific study of what we can plainly call Evil. The problem is, our materialist scientific culture does not readily admit that evil actually exists, per se. The lack of such a science has cost humanity millions of lives and untold suffering.
22 August 2010 Time for Change: Why the Corrupt Few Wreak So Much Death, Destruction, and Suffering on the Rest of us
by Time for Change Democratic Underground
#36
We should demand any laws create jobs and make the GOP create them.
Tax cuts? Prove they create jobs...
#37
OK, then who did you vote for?
We didn't have much choice in this election.
#38
I think Tom might be onto something with letting the tax cut plan go into effect. If it works, Obama gets the credit. If it doesn't, he can say the Republican plan failed and we need to make some changes.
"Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves".
#39
Like elect more Democrats?
Yeah. that'll work.
#40
All energy directed toward reforming political and state structures is useless. All efforts to push through a “progressive” agenda within the corridors of power are naïve. Trust in the reformation of our corporate state reflects a failure to recognize that those who govern, including Barack Obama, are as deaf to public demands and suffering as those in the old Communist regimes. We cannot rely on any systems of power, including the pillars of the liberal establishment—the press, liberal religious institutions, universities, labor, culture and the Democratic Party. They have been weakened to the point of anemia or work directly for the corporations that dominate our existence. We can rely now on only ourselves, on each other. ~ Chris Hedges
http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/no_act_of_rebellion_is_wasted_20101213/
#41
I would say that Peter is a temperamental person with an conservative ideology that has no room for real debate or discussion from the other side, which makes me wonder why he keeps coming on Thom's show. I think he's been on the show at least 4 times, and each time Peter inevitably starts screaming when Thom rebuts (or, as Peter would say "interrupts") his talking points. Peter acts like it's HIS show. He insulted Thom about seven times back on a show in March, and Thom still has the patience to keep talking with him, not hang up, and bring him back on the show. I myself actually look forward to Thom's interviews with Peter, for a) pure entertainment value, and b) to try to guess at which point Peter will start screaming.
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Images of Thom
With His Holiness The Dalai Lama, at His home in Dharamsala, India (Synthesis Dialogues - made into a movie narrated by Harrison Ford)
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Thom Hartmann seeks out interesting subjects from such disparate outposts of curiosity that you have to wonder whether or not he uncovered them or they selected him."
From Cracking the Code:
"In Cracking the Code, Thom Hartmann, America’s most popular, informed, and articulate progressive talk show host and political analyst, tells us what makes humans vulnerable to unscrupulous propagandists and what we can do about it. It is essential reading for all Americans who are fed up with right-wing extremists manipulating our minds and politics to promote agendas contrary to our core values and interests."
From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
Behind their back. ----------------------
My big beef with this tax cut deal is that President Obama clearly went behind the backs of Democrats and agreed to something without their approval or input, sticking us with an AWFUL deal that we now have no choice but to accept.
The big question no one is asking is WHY did he feel the need to circumvent Democrats with three weeks of control left in the House?