Why does the US have such a high rate of gun murders?

Why does the US have such a high rate of gun murders?

The shooter in the Aurora theater massacre, James Holmes, purchased more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition in the weeks leading up to the shooting, spending roughly $3,000 on his arsenal.  He also purchased a bullet-proof vest and other tactical gear to mimic a SWAT team member, and high-capacity magazines that would have been illegal under the Assault Weapons Ban or any number of pieces of gun control legislation that have stalled out in Congress.  Holmes built up his unusually large collection of deadly weapons just before the shooting without once raising a red flag with authorities.  Also, not once, was he required to submit a background check or register his name to the purchases.


Tragically, 12 people are dead now as a result of his rampage.  And despite the obvious lessons here, which are the same lessons we learned from the last year’s Tucson massacre, that mentally unstable people can get a hold of extremely deadly weapons of war way too easy in this nation, don’t hold your breath for sensible gun control legislation.  Already, President Obama abandoned a call for gun control, arguing that we need to prevent gun crimes by relying on “existing law.”  And Democratic Governor of Colorado, John Hickenlooper, refused to endorse tougher gun control laws.


Even Conservative Commentator Bill Kristol argued that it was “foolish” for Democrats to not push for gun control.  As Democratic Congresswoman, and strong supporter of gun control, Carolyn McCarthy bluntly said in an interview Sunday about her colleagues in Congress, “They don’t have the spine anymore.  They pander to who’s giving them money.”


And that right there, folks, is what’s wrong with our nation.  With money in control, common sense policies – like keeping assault weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill – are off the table.  And instead, the crazies – those who think the massacre was a condemnation from God or staged by the Obama Administration to restrict gun rights – win the debate, simple because they also gladly accept money from the gun lobby that profits off more death and destruction in America.  The Second Amendment is not a license to let mass murders continue without action.

Comments

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
An occasional mentally ill

An occasional mentally ill person who manages to get these weapons and who manages to kill a dozen or so people and wounding 60 others is terrible. But it wouldn't be as terrible as a Hitler-like regime that is murdering many, many, many more...(millions?)..who have been disarmed and have no hope in hell to fight back. You don't think it could happen again? One of the things that these murderous regimes demand is gun control....take the only possible means of defending ourselves, including weapons that could even hope to stand up to such a regime, away from the citizens.

Yes, I suppose it would make some people happier if they even took away BB guns...and how do you think that would work in defending ourselves against a murderous regime with high tech weapons? The British were well armed with the latest high tech weapons of their day and were well trained,
disciplined armies. Yet, our forefathers managed to overthrow them and form the United States of America. I suppose many British thought these colonists "crazies" shouldn't have access to weapons either.

Be very careful in what you believe....there are fronts for such a regime that pose as liberals who are very good at convincing people that they should have strict gun control. Many of these fronts, whether organizations or individuals, have names that sound liberal and/or say "liberal" things but they are trying to manipulate you into acting against your best interest as a freedom-loving individual. Don't let these people convince you that you need to give up any hope of self-defense against what could very well be a mass-murdering regime.

And it doesn't even have to be concentration camps and Zykon B or ovens....if they manage to starve us all to death or deprive us of health care....or what if....because of such policies...a terrible virus breaks out as a result of all the poverty and lack of health care...and millions of people of poverty spread the disease and die?

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
You may not believe that such

You may not believe that such a murderous regime could exist in such a modern setting today. But you, then, obviously believe in the official government conspiracy theory of 19 Arab hijackers on 911. You probably think...Oh, no one in our country would do such a thing to fellow Americans. Don't be naive! They obviously ARE willing to "sacrifice" Americans in the 911 wars..and obviously ARE willing to murder innocent women and children in other countries. Many more Americans have died in those illegal and immoral wars than on 911...yet it was fellow Americans who condemned them to die. You should listen to Dr. John McMurtry, which you can find on YouTube. He was on KPFA Guns and Butter just a few days ago (it was actually a 2004 recording of Dr. John McMurtry's speech). I'd say that many Americans are in denial and just block and disconnect that which would be too horrible to believe. 911 was an inside job! The evidence is there if you just care to look. When you stop falling for the official conspiracy theories and their manipulative media and start really looking into the evidence you may be shocked into reality. Such are regime wants you disarmed so you have no hope of fighting back against tyranny.

zulwarn
zulwarn's picture
We have a higher GUN homicide

We have a higher GUN homicide rate because guns are legal .  Our overall homicide rate, however, is no higher than in Europe which, overall, has far stricter weapon control laws.  Amazingly a lack of firearms doesn't reduce murder rates people just use other methods and guns are far easier to trace than say cyanide or a random knife.

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
The one thing that America

The one thing that America has excelled at that could be the reason why some people are influenced to go whacko and kill people....the example is set in our movies and TV and games. I don't hear many people trying to ban TVs or movies or games for being too violent. Sure, they give movies ratings...big deal..James Holmes was 24. Holmes thought he was "The Joker".

Violence is celebrated and romanticized and put right up with heroism. The military loves it...because it influences young minds to fit the mold of the the murderers they train to fight wars. Guns don't kill people...people kill people! If they don't have guns...they'll get knives...or explosives...or gas...or viruses...or crash their small planes into buildings.

Even if they are regulated...or outlawed...the outlaws will still get the guns, or whatever, and the citizens will be left with relying on a corrupt police force that always gets there too late. The only way to counter that would be to put a cop on every street corner in America.

When you have a government that can justify their violence..murdering so many innocent civilians...a government that is bought and owned by the criminals who are profiting from the illegal 911 wars, the ones that run the National Security State that are spying on us, then you have a Nation that will continue to hatch occasional outbursts of internal violence.

@Govt follows you: Twitter feeds info to US police state
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9ghs51FXE

The NSA Is Lying - They are spying on you - Democracy Now April 20, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9ghs51FXE

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
James Holmes killed 10

James Holmes killed 10 wounded 58...inexcusable...but how many have our military murdered in the Middle East? Maybe we need to disarm our military...take away their Jesus-saying inscribed guns from the biggest mass murderers in recent times. Gun control should include the military!

impeacher
impeacher's picture
We need to change the

We need to change the language. Instead of gun control, how about high-powered, automatic assault weapon control? Or high-caliber, multi-clip bullet control?

.

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
A country with a violent

A country with a violent history...that praises violence in our media...on TV, Movies, games...should expect to see more internal violence in the future. Sure, blame the gun-manufacturers, the retailers, the government with laws that allow people to have guns...but that doesn't get to the root of the problem..and people will still get guns or other weapons anyway. Most people really don't want to get to the root of the problem because it would mean that their entertainment would be taken away from them to live a dull life. No heroic military propaganda movies...no killing..no self-righteous feelings of superiority over either the accused wacko or a holier-than-thou subrosa crusade against Muslims...no more electronic gladiatorial arenas.

Today's ruling elite knows what they knew back in ancient Rome....you gotta keep the people entertained in a way that acts as a kind of catharsis and temporary distraction away from the harsh realities of their exploitation by the wealthy. Problem is that some few people over react and kill a few people from time to time. Maybe they pretend they are gladiators or "The Joker".

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
Sure, I bet that the ruling

Sure, I bet that the ruling regime that corners us into finally fighting back will just love it that all we, the people, have are BB-guns and slingshots.

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
Besides, if they outlaw guns

Besides, if they outlaw guns in the US, criminals can always buy guns from the US government (eg: Operation Fast and Furious). What?!! You mean our own government sold thousands of high powered assault weapons to Mexican Drug Cartels? And they want to take away OUR weapons? Right!

See, they only want to keep American citizens from being able to defend themselves....they don't care about Mexican Drug Cartels. In fact, our government has a history of doing business with these drug lords. Our banking system would collapse if drug smuggling was stopped...what? you say our banking system did collapse? And the taxpayers were ripped off to bail them out? Some politicians would likely not get reelected because they would lose baksheesh and payola.

The criminals who are currently running our government and infrastructure and National Security (Spying-on-it's-citizens) State want it's citizens to be totally disarmed and totally reliant upon them for "protection" (read: exploitation).

Kend
Kend's picture
Here in Canada we have very

Here in Canada we have very strict handgun laws and people are killed by hand guns all the time. This year alone over two hundred shootings in Toronto alone. Just last week 2 where killed and 23 injured in a shopping mall shooting. I do have to say I went to a gun shop in Houstan TX and they where selling a gun with a 100 shot clip (not available in Canada). My freind and could not for the life of us think of what the hell you would need that for unless you are up to no good or a very bad shot.

knixphan
knixphan's picture
Facts trump gun-nut paranoia.

Facts trump gun-nut paranoia. Sharing this, Thom!

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
Maybe the next outbreak will

Maybe the next outbreak will target those damn idiotic maggot telemarketers and collection agency scamsters who pester the hell out of people by calling them up on the phone. I wouldn't be sorry to see a lot of those bastards....
disappear.

Webpm
Webpm's picture
"Also, not once, was he

"Also, not once, was he required to submit a background check or register his name to the purchases."

The above statement is simply not true! 

 

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
And if a gun isn't

And if a gun isn't available..they'll use some other way...knives, hit-and-run, baseball bat. That's it...lets outlaw baseball bats! That'll make us safe! Oh, and make sure we outlaw fertilizer, too!

cmrced
cmrced's picture
The root problem, as you

The root problem, as you said, is private money in politics and the anonymous way it can be donated. The California DISCLOSE Act, like the Federal DISCLOSE Act, would at least help address the anonymous part of this problem...but would you believe it, we can't even get progressive champions like yourself to help us pass it and the fight is going on at fever pitch right now in Sacramento!

You rarely if ever mention the California DISCLOSE Act on your show...and you won't even have our President, Trent Lange, on your show to discuss it. Senator Russ Feingold and his organization Progressives United, have strongly endorsed it...so has Public Citizen, Common Cause, and the Courage Campaign...but we can't get you to give us the time of day, despite months of trying.

I love you and your show, Thom, and shining a light on these problems is crucial, but I wish you'd do more to help us solve them (and that goes for Rachel and Ed and Lawrence and Chris and Norman too). We'd sure love to hear from you...just ask your producer.

Craig Dunkerley, frustrated activist...

 

Jambala
Jambala's picture
Well, this definitely won't

Well, this definitely won't happen before the election, especially with the righties beating the drum to its base about "Obama's gunna take yer Guns away from yeh"

....maybe after the election, but not a moment sooner....

Jambala
Jambala's picture
They were bought at gun shows

They were bought at gun shows dummy, and the ATF was powerless to stop them from taking them over the border, because of existing laws brokered by the NRA........P.S. if the gov't wanted you dead, NO amount of assault weapons that you could buy, or rounds of ammunition would save you......glad I could help.....

williamhofmann
williamhofmann's picture
It is so sad that some have

It is so sad that some have to loose their lives for our freedoms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A assult rifle is just as dangerous as a pistol, shotgun, or smaller caliber automatic weapons. What makes them dangerous is the person using them. Anyone who uses any kind of weapon to harm another has an assult weapon. Why is it always the weapons fault. If you saw the pictures of this evil man in the court room today then you will know that this is a health care issue. I wonder if he had good health insurance or access to it? It sounds like his mother knew that there was something wrong with him and was possibly unable to get him the help he needed because of laws. We do have laws to help prevent what happened. Were they over looked or not in place? If you have also seen what has happened in Syria in the passed few weeks where men, women and childern are in the way of a goverments rule and the population is defenceless. Alot more people die.  We the people need to have a way of defending our lives agains those evil rulers who care more about money and power than the welfareof it people. This is why it is in the Constitution.  Not so whe can have a gun to hunt with. It is about protection. I have a concealed weapons permit and I carry a gun at times. If I had been in that theater and in harms way, I would have shot that bastard dead or died trying to protect my life or those in need of protection. I want you to know that I have survived a home invasion against a drugged up thug and still live today because of a gun. Guns can also save lives! Its the person behind the gun that does that too!

williamhofmann
williamhofmann's picture
So it is not illegal to take

So it is not illegal to take weapons across the border? The goverment was in charge of this one and look at what happened.

jim mcdonagh
jim mcdonagh's picture
What facts are you referring

What facts are you referring to.?

jim mcdonagh
jim mcdonagh's picture
More people are killed in car

More people are killed in car crashes, close to 33000, in 2010  than by guns in the US.. 31500 gun deaths in 2010 and a high percentage of those were suicides.  No one is screaming to restrict automobile use . Gun violence in the US is actually dropping over the last decade or so, thanks to the advent of the security state post 9/11. I'm sure they will whip this to remove even more civil rights. 

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
America on Edge Drones over

America on Edge

Drones over America: Lawmakers Probe Domestic UAVs
Jim Kouri July 22nd 2012

"...as of June 2012, President Barack Obama's Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) appointees have authorized about 60 private and government entities to operate UAVs in domestic airspace. The authorized entities include Federal, State and local law enforcement and academic institutions."

"There are also lawmakers who are concerned with drones being fitted with weapons systems, as well, which would mean an end run around the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, that prohibits the use of the U.S. military domestically."

"What appears to shock those who are apprehensive about domestic use of drones is the fact that not one Democrat politician of any importance has complained about using "spies in the sky" to monitor Americans, said former police captain George Sanchez."

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=74882&pageid=37&page...

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
The Edge of Terrorism HSBC

The Edge of Terrorism

HSBC Admits Money Laundering Billions for Drug Lords and Terrorists
Michael Bowman July 19th 2012

"...for years, London-based HSBC seemingly turned a blind eye to illegal transactions originating in Mexico and elsewhere that used the bank’s U.S. affiliates as a gateway to America’s financial system. Senator Carl Levin of Michigan said HSBC is a prime example of a widespread problem in international banking.

“Some international banks abuse their U.S. access. Some allow affiliates operating in countries with severe money laundering, drug trafficking, or terrorist financing threats to open up U.S. dollar accounts without establishing safeguards at their U.S. affiliate," said Levin. "The end result is that the U.S. affiliate can become a sinkhole of risk for an entire network of bank affiliates and their clients around the world playing fast and loose with U.S. rules. The U.S. bank can end up aiding and abetting transactions that fund terrorists, drug cartels, corrupt dictators, and tax cheats.”

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=74828&pageid=37&page...

BARBARA NECKER
BARBARA NECKER's picture
Thom -- cars are necessary to

Thom -- cars are necessary to get to work, the store & many other destinations in most parts of this country -- guns are ONLY for killing.

BARBARA NECKER
BARBARA NECKER's picture
Thom, where do you dig up

Thom, where do you dig up these nuts, like that guy Neil (?) who apparently wants every American to be armed with an assault weapon?  I'm more afraid of the numerous flakes in our society than I am of the government (& I'm pretty sure I'll feel the same way neven if Romney wins.)

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
So, when you are at one of

So, when you are at one of those destinations...and someone tries to rob and/or kill you who ya gonna call...Ghost Busters? The police will be around later to pick up the body...or shoot you like they did the unarmed man in Anaheim...or they'll set their dogs loose on you to chew you up. Your car won't protect you...well, maybe..if you are lucky. Most criminals know that most people are unarmed and are totally vulnerable. I'm sure that many of those people in that theater got there by car as well but none of them had a gun...too bad...they could have been the hero that saved so many lives.

I suspect that there is a lot more to this than we are being told...I wonder how MKULTRA would have used neuroscience..maybe they don't need to use LSD or other psychotropic drugs and hypnotism anymore....maybe they have something better. Why is the neuroscience school being so tight lipped about this? What was that about the so-called "each student had an overseer to monitor them"...or some such...and why would someone after having achieved so much, and working for a Doctorate degree in neuroscience just lose it.

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
Mutually Assured Destruction

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)-

Worked for decades for major countries who had atomic weapons. They knew that if one started anything...that it would pretty much be the end of the world as we know it. Countries may have hated one another and may have tried to outdo the other in other ways but no one was foolish enough to launch atomic weapons. And you can't really say that the two major countries were even all that responsible or level headed...the US, after all, did use it against Japan twice and wanted to use it in both the Korean and Vietnam wars. And we did have a few very close calls.

If everyone packed their own weapons...especially the ones who were screened to be relatively sane and who took a mandatory training as part of their condition for getting a license to carry a concealed weapon then there would be fewer occurrences of what happen in that Colorado theater. There would be fewer robberies, rapes, and murders. More people would have to respect one another more and realize that Mutually Assured Destruction (at least among the committed parties) would be the end of their lives. One thing it would do quite well...make a potential criminal attacker much more afraid that he/she would likely be killed by perpetrating any attach on another being that is well armed. Sure, there will be a few people that won't be able to control their temper and they will likely try to kill someone who ticks him/her off. Road Rage already kills people when they use their vehicles as weapons. But, again, potential carriers of weapons would have to be screened and educated.

But, of course, there would be staged incidents, as we see today, by certain groups, who have an agenda, to get people to see things their way. And some people, evidently, can't even see the hypocrisy of gun control when their fearless leaders are running guns to Mexican Drug Lords. The only people they don't want to have guns are the citizens of this country...now why do you think that is? Control? Good guess!

moonbeam07042
moonbeam07042's picture
When compared with other

When compared with other first-world countries, the reason the US has such a high rate—probably the highest rate, per capita—of gun murders is because, as a country, we have deified the gun. Period.

Propping up that mindless deification is the obviously dangerous propaganda from the NRA and its like-minded political spinoffs, with the simultaneous dumbing-down of our primary and secondary education systems, public and private.  The contributing influences in media are their empty "entertainment" offerings, largely the so-called "reality" shows (no imagination there!) and ersatz news (one “all-news” channel in particular is casually known as "Propaganda Central!").

Our ancestors fought for liberty, whether they were soldiers or lawmakers and we can only infer their intent by examining the first-hand accounts of their own purpose and the times in which they lived, and that is exactly why Thom Hartmann’s analyses of America's original documents of foundation (my emphasis) and the unified intent of our founders who wrote those documents, are so important to all Americans.

Once upon a time, American History and Government, separate courses once taught as part of every secondary public-school education in this country, during an era when America felt threatened by Cold War influences, are no longer taught, except in a cursory way, in most schools.  To turn our backs on those lessons of history is inviting ignorance, which breeds anarchy and other forms of disaster.

To the folks who present the spurious, and exceedingly dangerous argument that if more people were to carry more guns, we would have a safer society, I defy you to successfully apply that hypothesis to this story of a 4-year-old murdered on a sunny Sunday on an oceanside playground in New York City--and don't even TRY to convince me that if the boy's mother or father HAD been carrying a gun that he would not have been murdered ANYWAY! http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/23/12903602-4-year-old-boy-shot-dead-on-nyc-playground?lite

Thom, thank you for providing this forum!

 

ken ware
ken ware's picture
To Palindromedary, (you

To Palindromedary, (you really must be one bored guy to sit around and come up with your weird conspiracy theories) l would definitely require you to have a mental health examine before issuing you a permit to purchase a weapon. It seems that you have come up with every type of conspiracy theory in the book. To the rest of you who think people should arm themselves against gov't troops, obviously you have never been in the military. You would not stand a chance against the well trained and armed military of today. Most of you civilian soldiers would probably wet yourself at the first sign you have been fired upon. And for those of you who write you need a weapon to protect yourself in public don't realize when someone draws down on you, unlike in the movies you have watched, there is not enough time to respond and pull out your weapon and fire. More than likely you would end up shooting an innocent bystander, like most thugs do when they open fire on their perceived enemy. Should people be armed in their homes to protect themselves and property, most certainly. But as the records show us, more people are killed by their own weapons in their homes then by the intruder’s weapon. I have relatives in AZ. where you can walk around with a hand gun on your hip, as long as it can be seen, and that was one uncomfortable feeling watching everyone play cowboy. One hell of a scary scenario if that was the law here in Southern Calif., where we have a fair share of crazies and want to be tough guys. But if anyone thinks that by carrying a weapon around with you all day makes you safer, you’re wrong. In public it is an invitation for trouble. Walking around with a hand gun gives one a false sense on invincibility and bravery. If you think road rage would be confined to crazy drivers getting pissed off and doing something stupid, give them a loaded gun while they are driving and start counting the body bags. Stop the selling of assault weapons and the 50-100 round mags combined with new laws against selling guns at gun shows or from private parties without checking the persons background would be a start. Will that stop all the bad guys from killing people for sport, no. but it will be a start and better then where we stand now....And if it gets to the point where we have to defend ourselves against government troops, well at that point the game will be over for America. This is not some third world dictatorship as many of you Republicans think it is and the government is not waiting in the shadows to start enslaving dissidents, then you need a really good therapist and some medications to stop your illusions or delusions of conspiracy around every corner. The elite already run this country with their money and illegal Wall St. banker loyalists doing their bidding, they don't need to over throw the government of the people, they already own it and you know it..........

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
"To Palindromedary, (you

"To Palindromedary, (you really must be one bored guy to sit around and come up with your weird conspiracy theories) l would definitely require you to have a mental health examine before issuing you a permit to purchase a weapon. It seems that you have come up with every type of conspiracy theory in the book."

"..you need a really good therapist and some medications to stop your illusions or delusions of conspiracy around every corner."

But then you say:

"The elite already run this country with their money and illegal Wall St. banker loyalists doing their bidding, they don't need to over throw the government of the people, they already own it and you know it.........."

Careful there Ken...you might be accused of being a conspiracy nut by some other conspiracy nut who thinks he's not!

The biggest conspiracy nuts are the ones who believe in the official 911 conspiracy theory..that 911 was all caused by 19 Muslim hijackers directed by a bearded old (ex?)-CIA troglodyte sitting in a cave in Afghanistan. With all of the inconsistencies, non sequiturs, and proven lies of the official government conspiracy theory many conspiracy theory nuts avoid even thinking about, or reading about them...they believe the governments version. They have cognitive dissonance and are too molded by keeping their heads buried in the sands of official government deceit.

I agree that it would be pretty scary, at first, if everyone was carrying a gun..(it is very scary to be around cops with guns too)...but it is also very scary when you hear of stories like the one in that theater in Colorado.

Do you think the police are going to be there, every time, or even sometimes, in time to prevent someone like James Holmes from killing people? If you think that it is a good idea to take guns away from the citizenry, to protect themselves, or at least to feel more protected than having to rely on police who may shoot some unarmed individual in the back of the head (as recently happened in Anaheim) or unleash their dogs on a woman with a baby...or police that could never get there on time enough to save you, then who's the conspiracy nut?

Oh, but you think one should be able to have guns in the home for protection yet you state that in most cases people hurt themselves or are rarely effective in protecting you against an intruder. That, again, may be true...but there are some cases where it has saved people from being tied up, gagged, raped, tortured and killed while being robbed all in the "safety?" of their homes. And if the police are increasing their firepower to the equal of military even to the extent of flying drones to spy or even armed to kill in America's skies, then I guess we really have no other choice but to crawl up and cower in the corner and beg for mercy from the ruling elite who controls those police and/or military forces.

Our government is getting to be as paranoid as the Syrian or Egyptian governments. And if paranoia drives our government into accumulating sophisticated weaponry to use against it's citizens then our government is no better than that of any of those other countries that our government likes to hypocritically bash.

What do you do, as a citizen, when voting no longer works...when it is corrupt...and no matter what "leader" you get is either overtly a Corporatist puppet (or corporatist puppet master in the case of Romney) or a front for one (as in the case of Obama)? What chance do you think we have of reversing this course when you continue to play their rigged games?

The government is constantly monitoring "chatter". They assess the general mood of the country. The ruling elite want to keep abreast of just how far they can push us. And if they feel they can muster enough police and military force to put down a potential uprising, if they can't do it through media controlled propaganda, they will continue to screw us. I imagine they are very worried about how the uprisings in other countries might affect the US citizenry...maybe more and more might be thinking we need such an uprising here too. There must be some reason why the government is letting police use drones in America's skies. I think they are getting pretty nervous. And while some police or military (that might also be used to quell uprisings) may love the idea of bashing heads...there are others (I suspect the majority) would be very hesitant to be violent against their own mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters who may be in those crowds of dissension.

There is strength in firepower, for sure, but there is also strength in sheer numbers of people who believe they have been backed into a corner...."mad as hell"..and decided to not take it anymore. This "mad as hell", strength in numbers, worked back in FDR days but I don't know if it would work again...but what else can starving and medically needy people do when their families are dying of government/ruling elite neglect and unfairness? And although it is too late for some...many more will eventually come to realize that they have to do something...and not just vote for some ruling elite puppet in the White House...yet again.

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
It is not just the NRA that

It is not just the NRA that "deifies" the gun. Our military does that quite well, as well. They even hype up the military in the movies and in computer games. The military...hired assassins and murderers for the ruling elite...psych out and train recruits to become these assassins and murderers...and then expect them to come home and be good mentally stable citizens. Young brothers and sisters often look up to these older brothers and sister who join the military. They go to movies that play up the heroics of killing other people...the "bad guys". They play up the exceptionalism and "might is right" of the United States and their military exploits around the world. It helps when these "others" are Muslims and on the other side of the world.

Maybe if our military stops killing over there...it would set a good example for the people over here. If you want gun control...maybe you should start with our military and then our police.

I've noticed that, often, when they are playing a popular movie at the malls that includes some military theme (which usually includes lots of killing the "bad guys"), the recruiters are out in force, in those malls, trying to entrap young suckers to sign up. Just sign on the dotted line, sonny! No bother to read the fine print.

jim mcdonagh
jim mcdonagh's picture
A bit of misdirection there .

A bit of misdirection there . Fact guns kill people and cars kill more people. Cars also do monstrous environmental damage and are a far greater threat to our well being than guns.

Elioflight
Elioflight's picture
I think what is missing from

I think what is missing from the "violence" conversation is the fact that many bright and intelligent people feel isolated and ostracized; this social outcasting or rejection of a person's, what should be honored as helpful and benefitical, gifts can be devastating mentally--and, as we have seen in CO, dangerous and injurious. We have seen this in the stories of many gifted people through history--it is not new news.

We celebrate the "stupid" over the "smart" in this county.

Why are we not asking ourselves how the gifts of intellegent people could not be put to more useful occupations? Why are intelligent people not nurtured and honored and protected and seen as the answers to the world's problems? Why is it that we think that highly intelligent people cannot have problems? That they are unworthy of help? That they are unworthy of productive occupations that help society? Why are we not putting this valuable resource to its best use?

AmitaC1040@aol.com
AmitaC1040@aol.com's picture
Why go to the extremes when

Why go to the extremes when you talk of gun regulations? No one wants to take your guns away from you. I am a liberal and so wasn't my father and he always kept a rifle in the TV room closet.  Can't we just keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill?  Can't we have background checks at gun shows?  Why can't we track ammunition over the internet? Gosh, they know about most everything I do on the internet.  Are you planning on attacking the US government?  Why?  We have democracy to change things we don't like, it just takes will from our elected leaders.  We are almost at Totalitarianism now, because there is no much money in our elections.  Ordinary citizens are out moneyed.  But if we stick together we can make changes. It is the will of the people that is important, but unfortunately, the Right wing insists in electing the very people that are putting our rights in jeopardy. Sorry, I am not going to start a war with my country.  I love the US and believe in it's exceptionalism. I also believe in the rule of law, which makes this country great.

rs allen
The police in this country

The police in this country have more power (willingly) given to them then at anytime I can remember since the early/mid 60's. We have now what is arguably a mercenary national army along with a sanctioned straight ahead large mercenary force in place. What more needs to be said? We the people handed it to 'the powers that be'.

If the conspirancy theorists be it the liberal left or the reactionary right are really worried about the government they need to face an uncomfortable fact; we need conscription into the military for every able bodied man and women. 

We have always had a professional army. In my day, they were called lifers. The number of lifers depended on what the status was enre to what war may be going on.

In this age I'd argue that if we still had our national service filled with everyday people we wouldn't have all this running around shouting nonsense about government take over. We wouldn't have had at least one senseless war and that the one war that could be somewhat supported would be long over by now.

When and how did America become so chicken shit that we've got all these people running around toting guns yelling about the sky falling? Why is anyone even listening to the BS?

Palindromedary
Palindromedary's picture
Exceptionalism? Rule by laws?

Exceptionalism? Rule by laws? Democracy? Would be nice if they weren't now manipulated and defined by right-wing wackos and their wealthy corporate ruling elite. They had democracy in Nazi Germany too and Hitler was popularly elected too. They, too, had a nation of laws that they transformed in the idealistic images of their exclusivist minds.

Many countries, you wouldn't want to live in, have laws. Laws are not holy writ blessed by The Flying Spaghetti Monster or Raptor Jesus. They can, and have been, manipulated by those who now hold the power over us all to serve the selfish needs of the criminal class...the top echelons of the economic pie. They have rigged the game in Washington and your vote doesn't mean sh!t.

We either get the right-wing wacko Republican who screws us overtly or we get the fake "left-wing" front for the ruling elite in the Democrat....who also screws us... covertly.

The Democrat only serves the ruling elite as the panderer of false hope that keeps the people from rioting in the streets...for a while anyway...until the people realize that he was nothing like the candidate they voted for. Let's face it...money does rule in Washington and the only people with the most money rule Washington...Republican or Democrat..makes little difference.

If money has bought off our Democracy then it is not really Democracy anymore...the system is broken...quite possibly beyond repair. The only solution is NOT to think that voting matters anymore..you have to go way beyond that smoke-and-mirrors illusion.

The people in Egypt put their criminal ruler in a cage and urinated on him....and he deserved much worse. In fact, many of the elite in Egypt needs to be hauled out in the streets and dealt with.

Our system has been corrupted to such an extent that there is just no way it can be turned around no matter how much people banter about trite ideas of changing things at the polls or changing the laws.There are many laws on the books already that are being constantly violated and p!$$ed on by the wealthy ruling elite. There are very few politicians who are brave (or foolish enough) to go against the powers of money.

So, how do you take money out of politics? You can't through the current corrupt system. The voting masses have no teeth anymore...they cannot change the system as it is unless they go way beyond the normal, polite, but crooked channels that money has bought.

When it is noted by the NSA chatter scatologists (and I wouldn't be surprised that they may have a few proctologists on that task as well), who monitors the internet, social media, and every other form of communication that the majority of the people are so upset and willing to take to the streets, boycott, strike, obstruct business as usual...and when the billionaires and multimillionaires feel threatened and very afraid...only then will there be changes for the good of the majority of Americans.

The ruling elite are not scared, in the least, with what has been done so far...except maybe from the few demonstrations so far. As long as you keep playing their rigged game of pretend democracy and vote for either a Republican or a Democrat they will continue to laugh at their little dirty peon suckers all the way to their offshore banks. What is it now? Something like $27 trillion is currently stashed away by wealthy Americans in these tax-shelter hideouts?

rs allen
So your arguing we take up

So your arguing we take up arms and over throw the government? Toward what end?

By the way this is the government we deserve because few has been paying attention for the last 40 years. Nay I say, except for narrow parameters, they have been fighting against the blue collars fair share for the last 100 plus years. The monied class have been fighting on multi-fronts  for as long as child labor curtailment and public education was 'the law' of the land.

And now they clearly voice their issues with showing facts.......they rant that facts are not necessary or relevant and when not ignoring them completely, rail against the facts when shown the light of day.

And here's the best part. At least 45% of America believes it. Unbelievable.

It starts at the town consules folks. It starts at the school board. It starts at the state legislature. Look around you don't think the mayhem we witness everyday is a product of just the last 10 years do you?

 

rs allen
Back to the subject at

Back to the subject at hand.

Someone correct me on this point if I'm wrong.

Hasn't the swing in this kind of random madness spiraled upward since our esteemed President Reagan mandated that the feds would no longer fund states for care of the mentally ill? Meaning of course they (the ill) were either on the street or in prison.

Oops, looks like I stepped in that cow pie called health care.

williamhofmann
williamhofmann's picture
You said it! If heath care

You said it! If heath care was a gun, Regan Emptied it!!!!!

Raunstar
Raunstar's picture
I think people's knee-jerk

I think people's knee-jerk reaction is to blame the gun.  I have a couple of them,  and not once has any one of them willfully jumped up and killed somebody of their own accord.  It seems the powers that be,  would prefer to keep us distracted and arguing about gun laws, when the real conversation, the necessary conversation needs to be about mental health-care and accessibility in America.  I see people who have insurance, wait 3 months to get an appointment with a counselor.  People without insurance,  who need a sliding scale fee, the wait can be 6 - 12 months, for the initial appointment!  That's ridiculous!  We have these little for profit urgent care center where one can go (in lieu of the hospital emergecy room) when one breaks a bone.  But there is no such "walk-in and get help" service for mental health.  Do you think if the school had on-site counselors who would call Mr Holmes aka the joker into their office when he began suddenly failing at all of his classes, to find out what was up that this may have been preventable?  When I was a kid they had such things.  A student suddenly starts doing poorly,  they were called in to find out what's going on at home, what's going on inside of you,  how can we help?  During the Reagan years,  my state shut down the "mental hospital".  We still have some very minor form of it,  but I'm pretty sure it's only for criminals.  So what choices does a person who really needs help have?  The Governor in Arizona first cut off all of the transplants in an effort to save some money.  But people were dying and she was getting a bad rap,  so she reinstated the transplant and cut off all of the mental health drugs that stabalize people instead.  I sure haven't heard MSNBC freaking out about that,  but when it was a transplant recipient being denied they were all over it.  Long ago,  we hid such people in basements,  sometimes keeping them chained up so as not to hurt themselves or others.  We pretty much do the same thing figuratively now,  we pretend they don't exist, until one of them freaks out and hurts somebody or multiple somebodies,  then everyone screams gun control.  But nobody seems to want to talk about the real issue of mental helath care.  We (the middle class) are TAXED TO DEATH IN THIS COUNTRY ALREADY,  there is no reason why our government cannot devote money to mental and physical health care.  It's a matter of the will of the people.  As long as they keep us distracted over issues like guns,  then they don't have to face us when we tell them how we want our money spent.  Let's face it people,  when the least of our brothers is denied mental health care,  many of our brothers fall. It's time we start pushing for solutions,  not distractions.