Tuesday & Wednesday- September 15 & 16 2009
By Louise
Thom broadcasts live from radio row at the annual "Hold Their Feet to the Fire" event in Washington DC where he'll be challenging conservatives from around the country on immigration reform www.fairus.org
Comments
#2
I am going to go to a speaker's meeting this week, so I have been thinking a lot about what the difference is between a good argument to get into, and one that we should avoid. I don't have a good sense of this at all. I'm feeling so crazy about this that I'm going to be glad to get some guidance. I feel like I want to walk out my door and start screaming.
#3
And you know what else True Sue? If we stopped spending the little we have to save for healthcare, what else would we be buying? The bottom of the economy would fall out and there his own replenishment of his money supply.
#4
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
— fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·tic \fa-ˈshis-tik also -ˈsis-\ adjective often capitalized
— fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb often capitalized
#5
Loretta,
Are you asking for help on topics to argue and not to argue? Are you asking for our ideas?
#6
Get a load of this plant calling in from Lisa - Good way to handle this! A Rush Limbaugh listener!
#7
Great point! Cathy. Fex Ex- will not serve all of us- Cherry pickers.
#8
Loretta, it may be impossible to "win" an "argument" because you cannot get an angry person to admit they are wrong.
What you CAN do is speak NOT to the angry person who is "arguing" but to the lookers-on who are trying to decide who to trust - you or the angry person.
One way to do THAT by asking the any person questions they are afraid to answer. For example, if they bring up the 9/12 BeckStock ask them why Fox News didn't release an overhead photo of the Washington Mall. Fox has the $$ for a simple overhead shot so why would they not show it.
Or, if they bring up "37 Czars" ask them what a Czar is. If they change the subject, ask them again. And again. Over and over.
The point is not to get anyone to admit they are wrong; authoritarian people can't. You can however stump them, which will persuade true neutrals.
For examples of great questions to ask, please see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
Oh yeah, and get Thom's book on "Cracking the Code"!
#9
@truesue:
You missed his point. If one can not afford to save to pay healthcare; one should promptly get about the process of dying.
#10
tax reform get corporations to pay their taxes. no more off shore bank accounts. how much does halitburton owe in taxes.
#11
Can anybody here or anywhere point out one single solitary case where Harry Reid ever did not accede to Republican demands in the final out come?
Inquiring minds wanna know . . .
#12
truesue,
Another thing to realize about health savings accounts is that the rich love them. They can park some more money away sheltered from taxes.
Loretta,
A tactic I have found helpful when confronted by arguments and objections is to ask questions. Clever use of questions can help you isolate objections. You can paint them into a corner. The other thing it does is let you control the direction of a discussion. People love to be asked their opinions. If you are clever you can lead them to the hole in their argument which is covered by twigs and leaves and have the satisfaction of watching them willingly step into it. And they do most of the talking.
#13
Randy Winn,
I was writing my post while your wisdom came up. I agree with you, obviously. Asking questions strategically is a little like playing chess.
#14
Loretta - one other thing: BRING A PAL!
I always feel better when a friend is around and it'll show in your voice. Maybe your pal can video the interaction, then you can review your performance to coach yourself, like athletes always do. Every interaction is a learning opportunity.
Oh yeah, and if you're a Christian and can do so sincerely, quote Jesus. A lot. He's got MANY great ideas. Rightwing theologians twist his words with strange arguments ("wolves in sheep's clothing") so just stick to Jesus's original words as a strong base, e.g. "Heal the sick" over and over.
And finally --- Have fun!!!
@DDay - thanks4 the kind words. I picked up most of this stuff listening to Thom, Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow talk with the righties. It's an education!
#15
Ask Rep. Hoekstra why it is okay for GOP members to leak secret info but not DEMs:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/hoekstra_leaking_class...
#16
Ask Rep. Hoekstra why recessivist revisionism is called “history” in Teaxas:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/right_wing_ideologue_e...
#17
[The Fed] is bigger than the Congress, [it] has more power than the Congress. The Fed Chairman probably is more powerful than our president...
-Ron Paul on CNN
#18
I picked up my technique through trial and error while going door to door in Michele Bachmann's district. Thom, Ed, & Rachel are great role models. Quoting Bible verses in a public political discussion is problematic for me. It might be problematic for a Jew or a Muslim or an atheist too. People's religious beliefs can be private and shouldn't preclude their participation or lend greater weight to the arguments of those who proselytize. If Jesus spoke to a particular issue and his words illuminate understanding between people great. But using him like a trump card is rude in the secular world. Render unto Cesear what is Cesear's? Bringing religion into a secular debate only alienates and complicates. Churches, Temples, and Mosques are here for a reason and so are public squares.
Respectfully disagreeable am I.
#19
DDay - let us respectfully disagree.
If you are speaking with a follower of Jesus, it's ok to quote Jesus. Of course, to other people you might use the words of people THEY admire.
#20
OOOPS! , The technique I mentioned but failed to identify in my haste is the one of using questions in debating policy. One of the most common themes in the New Testament is helping the poor. Al Franken is fond of saying that if we cut out all the references to the poor in the Bible we would have a great book to smuggle Rush Limbaugh's drugs in.
Indulging a right winger religious zealot in a theological debate that was started as a political discourse is an exercise in futility. It is like the guy hitting his head against the wall. When asked why he is doing so, he replies: " because when I quit it feels better". Separation of Church and State is a old and wise idea. It is beneficial and protective of both.
#21
I sure would love to hear others opinions on this issue of religion in politics. We know that Randy and I have different opinions. What about you'all? There are a lot of smart people who write here. Besides I need a good whuppin sometimes.
#22
DDay,
Re: Beast Feast
Thanks for the invite --- it sounds like fun. I don't think I'll be well enough by Sat. I'll let Colene Rowley (yes, the former FBI whisltleblower) and her peace group know about it, though. Maybe you'll get more attendees there.
"SICK" PARAGRAPH:
(I separated this from my main message so you don't have to read it if you don't want to. Who likes to hear complaining?)
I've been sick (and getting sicker) for over a week now --- it's in my lungs (and I have mild asthema) and I'm miserable (well, at least more miserable than usual! LOL) 'Saw the Dr. yesterday --- after getting turned away at my home clinic because Dr.s were out sick, and waiting nearly 2 hours at an urgent care clinic! What a nightmare --- and going to get worse with the flu!
#23
s.b. asthma
#24
Thanks Quark, Sorry to hear about you feeling sick. The H1N1 is rampant right now in the Twin Cities. I understand that it is mostly respiratory in nature. It's only a matter of time for me. My wife's patients are bound to give it to her which means I'm next. You know Quark I've heard that eating really good slow roasted swine offers some protection from swine.... flu. You should leave the door open to coming. Thank you for inviting Colleen. I've met her several times and find her delightful and bright. She will be given red carpet treatment if she comes. I should have thought about inviting her myself. Alas, I have C.R.S. (Can't Remember Stuff.)
#25
Corsey did not explain clearly how McCain proved to him that he was a US citizen. Why did everyone just give McCain a pass as Thom did just now during the radio broadcast XM 167! No one saw McCain's birth certificate. Whenever the right has a problem they accuse the left of that problem and get us defending ourselves instead of attacking them. Happened with Kerry/Bush. Bush's war record was terrible so they had to make Kerry's bad too. McCain didn't want anyone to look too closely at his birth in Panama so he attacked the President's birth in Hawaii (for gods sake!). I'd like to know why McCain's birth in a territory of the US was ok and the President's birth in Hawaii was not.
#26
DDay,
Funny, I made a delicious slow-roasted (twice) pork roast this week. 'Didn't seem to help. LOL. Oh, well...
BTW, I empathize with you trying to explain what's wrong with Obama's healthcare plan to other DFLers. I presented a single-payer resolution at a DFL caucus in 1990 (for Paul Wellstone) and got the same reaction from party insiders. It was carried, though!
#27
Thank you for the terrific suggestions regarding who to argue with and how to discuss health care reform in the most effective ways. I am typing up all of the suggestions to study before our speaker's meeting. I can't thank you enough. Studying Thom's techniques in the podcasts, Cracking the Code, and everyone's posts in past blog posts are an amazing tool to use. I am grateful for this community.
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Images of Thom
At Mondragon - both the mountain and the cooperative city - in Spain (written about in "Threshold" book)
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Beneath the success and rise of American enterprise is an untold history that is antithetical to every value Americans hold dear. This is a seminal work, a godsend really, a clear message to every citizen about the need to reform our country, laws, and companies."
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Thom Hartmann is a literary descendent of Ben Franklin and Tom Paine. His unflinching observations and deep passion inspire us to explore contemporary culture, politics, and economics; challenge us to face the facts of the societies we are creating; and empower us to demand a better world for our children and grandchildren."
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
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Researching what the caller said about Jesus being a Jewish Communist:
What he said:
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. (Matthew 19:21)
"Sell your possessions and give that money to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys" (Luke 12:33)
What he did!
Jesus never charged for curing the sick!
The only time Jesus got angry at another human being was when he whipped the moneychangers!
What his original followers did!
They began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. (Acts 2:45)
There was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need (Acts 4:34-35)