Daily Topics - Wednesday - May 12th 2010
By louisehartmann
Quote: Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery of party, faction, and division of society. -- John Adams
Hour One - Hour One -Has the President "dummied down" the Supreme Court? Thom challenges Bay Buchanan www.theamericancause.com
Plus...While the "The Fat Bastard" fiddled, America is burning...
Hour Two - Word war...should some words be off limits to the Left...really?! Dan Gainor www.businessandmedia.org
Hour Three - Can America's working class survive the "Temp Age?" Eamonn Fingleton www.unsustainable.org
Comments
#2
OMG, Bay Buchanan is nothing but a right wing hack. I rarely hear such hypocritcal dreck from one person, but she is just overflowing with it. Her reasoning is just completely based on ideology.
N
#3
Ideologs don't reason, they repeat.
#4
Thom's blog separate blog entry on the story of how the Oil Rig may have cut safety corners is quite interesting. Worth the read.
N
#5
I haven't listened to Thom or posted on the blog since Thom talked with Ravi Batra a week or two ago. Thom seemed to lead the "witness" (Batra) to confirm Thom's longtime prediction of a coming depression. Batra did not confirm that outlook per se, for which I was glad. Even tho Thom tells his listeners that "despair is not an option," he sometimes has a way of setting up a very bleak future (for which you'd have to be crazy not to be in despair.) (Last week, my doctor told me to spend less time being involved with politics, that it was hurting my mental and physical health.) Thom's interviews with authoritarian right-wing "mouthpieces" are equally discouraging. Why not just post the right-wing, corporatist talking points on the website every week? That's all these people have to say anyway.
Also, I wish that Thom would generally do less talking and taking over of conversations (especially with callers) and more listening and asking of questions.
#6
re: What do Democrats need to do to get a spine?
They need to get their progressive/liberal policies taken seriously in the media.
I'm hoping that the progressive media will grow and flourish, to the point that the common American, who doesn't care about politics, is exposed to it like they are exposed to the right wing crap. In the meantime, its a grass roots struggle for the rest of us.
N
#7
@Quark,
I haven't been here much in the past week or so, but I've just been busy...but I feel the same way. Thom says that there isn't much attention paid to the left in the media, then he spends almost all the time talking to the right. There are many Socialist academics who could use the airtime, someone mentioned Richard Wolff recently, but Thom brings up a four year old talk with the head of the CPUSA...
ps When the Nazis came to L.A. recently it was mostly the various socialist contingents that came out to protest.
#8
@Quark!!!, long time no blogging. If Thom isn't what you need right now, just turn down the volume, but I hope you do spend some time with us here on the blog.
N
#9
Folks this is madness:Bay Buchanan maybe a Right -Wing hack but she is more than correct.
Buchanan says the GOP get whom ever they want to sit on the Supreme Court.
And Thom sounded silly calling the chief justice Roberts a Right -Wing hack,Roberts may well be,but he is on the court.What good progressive can we point to that has a seat on the court,none.
And so liberals are stuck defending Kagan on behalf of the Administration.Liberals are now doing just like the GOP,saying yes & defending everything the WH hands 'em.even if it's not in their best interest.
Kagan is no progressive or if she is,she is a corporate progressive.Ordinary people be damned.
She is more than bad news,and progressives ought not to be defending her, on behalf of the WH.For someone who is such a progressive, Kagan had no damn confidence or courage to defend her beliefs.She has written nothing supporting her so called0" progressive" stance.She was in the Clinton WH,what does that tell ya ?
#10
@Quark and Zero G., sounds like you guys need a strong dose of Pacifica Radio and Free Speech TV. You'll get a lot more of the left there, heck just this morning I was listening to Amy Goodman/Democracy Now and there was a lot more scrutiny on Kagan from the left than I'm hearing even on Thom's show (as an example).
I do personally hope you two don't abandon this blog completely though. :-)
N
#11
@Pablito re: She was in the Clinton WH,what does that tell ya ?
It tells me she wasn't in the Bush Administration.
N
#12
Disasters are "an act of god" according to the irresponsible, and hence not their duty to clean up - god has to fix it.
If you leave the lights on when you park your car, they will only be on for a while, but that doesn't fix the problem.
#13
Hey Nels,
I heard Amy's show this morning and most mornings, also I had posted Glen Greenwald's critique of Kagen before the pick became known.
I full well acknowledge calling GWB a fascist. His Grandfather Prescott's Union Bank had their funds confiscated for funding the Third Reich. GWBush used the Big Lie technique to force the US into wars of aggression. During the FDR regime the GOPhers tried to organize a coup against him. They are fascists. They are the decendants of fascists. Let's be honest about it.
#14
Democrats and Progressives can develop their spine by understanding when they are questioned by libertarians and conservatives about the ‘evil’ connotation of their socialism and polices for the ‘redistribution” of wealth is that what is being done is putting right the laws, rules, and beliefs that allowed the miss-distribution of wealth in the first place through inequalities in wages, benefits, retirement plans, quality heath care, and tax benefits. It seems to be forgotten by all concerned that this miss-distribution of wealth came first.
#15
First, look carefully at most of those photos comparing Bush to Hitler. Nearly all of them were taken in Europe.
Second, how do tea-baggers defend comparing "reforming health care" as justification for comparing Obama to Hitler vs comparisons of Bush to Hitler for an unprovoked attack against another country?
#16
Zero G and Nels,
I have heard a few others reflect similar sentiments over time on this blog. You and others here seem like part of my "family" and I didn't want to just disappear without an explanation. Thank you for your thoughtful, kind words and friendship. I will probably continue to post when I'm able, though I think I need to take periodic breaks.
#17
Quark & Zero - Thom has been debating on his show since day one and this show is in it's ninth year. He doesn't just have them on - he both challenges them and informs them. If this isn't what you want to hear then find a different blog to hang out on.
#18
Isn't Bush on tape saying that it would be better to run this country as a dictatorship, so long as he was the dictator?
Wish Thom had played that clip. I also agree with MugsyRapSheet, calling Obama a NAZI is about as nonsensical as calling Bernie Sanders the next Joe McCarthy. Comparing Apples with dogshit.
N
#19
Zero G,
I guess I've been dismissed (re: Louise.)
#20
I seem to remember Bush in a classroom 8 months after his innauguration.
#21
@Quark,
You and me both, I guess we're no longer welcome. So long folks, its been fun.
#22
Bush did say it would be easier to run the country if it were a dictatorship. Cheney promptly snatched the reins and yanked as hard to the right as he could.
#23
NAZI/Commie: A very smart professor lectued one time that it's not a line, with far left and far right; but a circle. With authoritarian at the top and libertarian at the bottom. In other words, you can have authoritarian right-wing govts and authoritarian left-wing govts.
#24
'Bye everyone. Disagreement is not welcome here.
#25
If you can't handle a little criticism or a correction, you probably aren't mature enough to be here in the first place. Ta Ta!
#26
@Quark, of course, of course, listening to one show continually isn't necessarily good for anyone. Variety is the spice of life, Thom isn't perfect, he's human and he can't be everything to everyone and as you mentioned sometimes he'll lead his guests, though I feel its more or less his subconscious coming through. I mean he does have his beliefs, if he didn't I don't think he would be doing his show.
Sorry Louise got a bit touchy with you and Zero G., I would hazard to guess that she's a little sensitive about her husband. I can tell you this, if you had said something critical about me and my wife heard it, she'd be all over you like white on rice. Far more extreme than Louise. As I wrote earlier, hope you two don't disappear from the blog, I would miss you terribly.
N
#27
@Quark and zero G: I didn't take Louise's comment that way, though it was harsh. I'll ask you not to go, OK?
#28
Wonderful: a safety celebration causes a disaster.
#29
@harry, Oh no, we're losing Quark and Zero G!!! NO NO NO NO NO this isn't happening!!!
Quick hold me, I think I'm going to cry :.-(
N
#30
Haliburton was plugging the well with cement at the time of the explosion because they were attempting to shut down the well so they could return when the price of oil was higher.
#31
@Maxrot: re bush quote: I remember bush didn't say it would be "better" to have a dictatorship, but "easier".
#32
Smedley Butler was a major general - two stars. He was awarded the Medal of Honor twice, both in support of imperial hegemony in Mexico and Haiti.
#33
@Louise, just out of curiosity, Quark had mentioned that her Doctor had mentioned she should stop paying as much attention to politics as she does. This isn't the first time I've heard such from progressives (I think gerald had a similar comment some months ago).
Anyway maybe there is something more to this, maybe there is a stress disorder developing in progressives that work hard for progressive politics and instead get nothing better than right of center policies as the best. It might be worthwhile for the show to take a look at this subject, I suspect it may be far more wide spread than people think.
N
#34
Ah geez, now with Quark gone I'm starting to PANIC.
N
#35
@Maxrot: I always thought it was "jeez". for Jesus.
#36
Yes - it did sound a bit harsh....my apologies...
#37
@Louise, I think by now you'd have to send the apologies to both the members personally. If you do tell them that I miss them.
Nels
#38
@harry, I don't know how you spell it, perhaps its like gray or grey, either spelling is probably acceptable... seems that I also missed the opportunity to write it as jeez louise too, since I've heard said that way to like after I smacked my head on an overhead pipe.
You did understand the word in its context though, so does it matter that much?
N
#39
@Quark and ZeroG (if you're still here) -
I don't think Louise meant to be dismissive. She was merely pointing out that the show still is what it has always been. Thom does indeed get a lot of the same people, or at least people who spout the opinions, that you'll hear on Limbaugh, Beck or Hannity. The difference is that on the Reich wing shows,. the toady host supports and agres with their opinions. Their appearances on this show are very different, as the host challenges their viewpoints.
We are alll awre that the MSM, as currently configured, is little more than a right-wing echo chamber. If we build our own echo chamber here on the left, are we really doing oureselves a service? If we speak exclusively with people who agree with us, is that really a road to progress? I don't think so - the choir already knows all our songs. Progress begins when you change the opnions of people on the other side.
#40
well said mstaggerlee
N
#41
Labor is not a cost. Labor is wealth.
#42
@maxrot: 'course it doesnt matter. sometimes I wonder if you use some kind of vocal device that misinterprets you and inserts hominyms. But a bang on the head will work as well. :) It sure worked for me and Edgar Cayce...course you knew I was going to say that. I have to go to eye doc now, see ya'lll manana.
#43
In an earlier segment Thom spoke briefly about the Estate Tax (or Paris Hilton Tax). Something I think we should be pointing out is that repealing the Estate Tax would result in a big middle class tax increase while giving the extremely rich a big tax break.
The Estate Tax is really a great big capital gains tax cut for people inheriting estates under a bit more than a million dollars (or 3 to 5 million under certain circumstances) - in other words it is a tax break for the middle class.
What the Estate Tax really does is give heirs a break on the cost basis of capital property they inherit - when it is sold the capital gains will only be calculated from the value at the time it was inherited rather than when it was originally acquired - this is the "step up" in the cost basis that they get. In exchange for that huge tax break, a tax is charged only on the portion of an estate above the limit (up to 5 million for family farms and 3 million for family businesses).
With no Estate Tax, there is no step up basis for capital gains of inherited property. Therefore the middle class will pay far more captial gains taxes on inherited property.
This year there is no Estate Tax, but it comes back next year. A few years ago Congress passed a 'bridge' bill to retain the capital gains step-up for this one year.
Very large estates benefit because with capital gains taxes at half the old rates, it is less expensive than the Estate Tax. And of course the same handful of families pushing for the elimination of the Estate Tax also want the complete elimination of Capital Gains taxes - that is next on their list.
So - Estate Tax repeal = big increase in middle class taxes, big cuts for the very wealthy.
#44
I worked temp once for $7.50 an hour. one of the employers who hired me told me he was paying the temp company $14 an hour. so the wage is obviously not the issue.
#45
Manpower used to be the number one employer in the US. I think it was in the early 1990s.
#46
@harry, no, no vocal device, I type it all in, I'm just not following best writing practices and re-reading everything I write... twice before submitting.
N
#47
Some have suggested RFID chip implants. Next would be the implant with GPS. Next might include an audio/video transmitter.
Didn't East Germany have about half the population spying on the "others"?
#48
@Louise
Apology accepted, from myself anyway. If I didn't think that Thom provided one of the most progressive voices on the commercial media, I wouldn't be here. I do hope some of my comments here have been appreciated by the show's staff, I assume so since I was a member of the day a few weeks back....
@Mstaggerlee
Leftists generally don't form echo chambers, there are too many various divided factions and everybody has an opinion, but in talking to the right wing, well how do you politely stay honest when talking to folks whose income is dependant on the exploitation of others, the bombing of civilians, the torture of prisoners, etc. Today Seymor Hersch is reporting that the US is executing prisoners on the battlefield. This is now, under the Hope and Change administration. War is a Racket, same as it ever was...
#49
Ghod! I hate looking at that photo on the home page of that fat hairy guy. The media is getting us used to the fact that fat is the new normal. I even hate flipping thru TV and getting a glimpse of the low hanging man-boobs on Biggest Loser. I can't wait til tomorrow for a new photo.
#50
RE Gulf Oil Spill, I've been reading a few reports on the Web (so take them with a grain of salt) that there is a possibility that the pipe and valve at the source of the leak may completely fail because of the high pressure oil and associated grit spewing from it. If that happens, it is likely that we go from 5,000 barrel-a-day to 50,000 barrel-a-day spill. That's 2.1 Million Gallons per day.
N
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Images of Thom
At Mondragon - both the mountain and the cooperative city - in Spain (written about in "Threshold" book)
From Screwed:
"Once again, Thom Hartmann hits the bull’s eye with a much needed exposé of the so-called ‘free market.’ Anyone concerned about the future of our nation needs to read Screwed now."
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Hartmann combines a remarkable piece of historical research with a brilliant literary style to tell the grand story of corporate corruption and its consequences for society with the force and readability of a great novel."
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Thom Hartmann seeks out interesting subjects from such disparate outposts of curiosity that you have to wonder whether or not he uncovered them or they selected him."
In regards to the Oil Exec's pointing fingers instead of taking responsibility. I think that they should be taken at their word, they have all implicated each other, so fine, its all of their responisibility. I think that's completely fair.
Side note, here in CA, the Republican Canidate for Gov that used to have a 50 point lead, is now neck and neck with her primary challenger. I'm figuring since I've heard or seen nothing but her campaign ads, that her extreme right wing position has shot herself in the foot. Hil-f'n-larious.
N