Lawsuit alleges insurance companies are at fault for cancellations.
By Thom Hartmann A...
Millions of insurance policies are being canceled across the nation, and while companies are blaming Obamacare – it appears that plain old greed is the real reason. Consumers in California say that their insurance company caused their cancellations, to jack up their premiums under the ACA. Paul Simon and Catherine Corker are suing Anthem Blue Cross in their state, claiming that the company tricked them into giving up their “grandfathered plans” - which they could have kept even after the healthcare law.
Their lawsuit states, “Blue Cross concealed information about the consequences of switching plans and intentionally misled its policyholders to encourage the replacement of grandfathered policies.” Just like President Obama said, if these customers liked their healthcare plans, they could have kept them under the healthcare law. But, Blue Cross enticed customers to change policies in 2011, which meant their plans were no longer “grandfathered-in” to the healthcare law.
When they were invited to switch plans, customers were not told that they would lose their right to keep their plans, and were not given accurate information about future price increases. And now, Mr. Simon and Ms. Corker want the courts to stop Blue Cross from canceling more plans without allowing customers to switch back to their original policies. If this happened in California, we can only wonder how many more cancellations are the result of the same deceptive tactics.
Comments
#2
First it is Obama and the entire Democratic Party going with the lie that you can keep your health care plan if you like it, PERIOD.. Pelosi and her elitist statement that we have to pass it so you can see what's in it. Then Obama tries to lie about what he said in the first lie( " what we said is you can keep it if.."). Now it is -- change the focus to the insurance companies as the bad guys, we need to destroy them. Are you kidding me -- are liberals that gullible and that stupid to believe this BS.
#3
Quote Global:Now it is -- change the focus to the insurance companies as the bad guys, we need to destroy them. Are you kidding me -- are liberals that gullible and that stupid to believe this BS.
Global ~ Quite frankly, I wouldn't put anything past this or any other Administration, or political party, in pulling a fast one on We the People. However, if you think for one minute that I--like you--would ever proceed from the notion that private for profit Health Insurance Companies are trustworthy and beyond reproach than I assure you that it isn't just liberals who are gullible and stupid.
PS (FYI The Insurance Companies are--and always have been--the bad guys. That is why the ACA was written in the first place.They are the only real obstacle standing between We the People and Medicare for all--the real solution to this dilemma.)
#4
Global -- Did you actually read Thom's introduction to this blog? By changing the focus, did you mean using critical thinking to determine actual causes?
#5
The insurance companies are leeches sucking on the public which they have held hostge to their usurious fees and insuffable ways for too many years.
Many of the people who have not been able to get through the website are just totaly ignorant and others do not even try - prefering to follow the neo-conservative line that the Affordable Care Act is all wrong - which it IS NOT!!! Too long the uninsured - many of whom had the money to purchase insurance - did not do so prefering instead to allow the taxpayers foot the bill for them. They, too, were leeches just as the insurance companies.
The stories coming out about insurance policies being cancelled and sky high replacement policies being offered is true. That said, it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the people themselves to then research what other options are available to them and not just the one which their insurance company wanted to saddle them with - always guaranteed to be the highest of any. When I worked for the government we had open season EVERY year and had to research the policies/amounts of charges being offered for the next year. It was - and STILL IS - OUR and YOUR responsibility to ensure that you have the proper policy for you and, if you have a family, for them, too.
The yelling and accusations being levied by the right wing nut jobs is so predicitable that, if it was not so harmful, it would be laughable. Exactly what you would expect them to say and do. So predictible. I know one person who, very early on, was able to get on the website and obtain insurance. She already had some but because of a pre-existing condition, it did not cover a life threatening condition she was going through. She was in need of an organ transplant but because her insurance would not pay for it she was not allowed to even put on the waiting list for that organ. She is a happy person now that she will have a chance at a life and not exist on machines for whatever time she has left under her old policy. And, this is just ONE of MANY such stories that the Republicans DO NOT want any of you to hear about.
Then there's the woman who was paying about $54 dollars a MONTH for a policy but was sent a cancellation letter with the offer of another policy of almost $600 per month. She was quick to tweet out that info but then FOX - not CBS or any other news station - explained the fact that the old policy that she had would have covered NO inhospital care at all. One accident/illness would have bankrupted her. The policy covered some co-pays for doctors and medications only. A real junk policy. When all was said and done, yes, she WILL pay more for her new policy - about $300/mth - but it WILL now cover most all incidents. Amazing.
The right wing just cannot get over that this bill was passed, challenged and found CONSTITUTIONAL by the SUPREME COURT - not making it OFFICIALLY a LAW!!!
Get over it and start looking out for yourselves by finding a policy to cover your ass before it is too late. I have no sympathy for any of you who don't and end up being fined. WE are tired of paying for your lazy ASSES and having it cause OUR insurance to increase - at last indication about $1,000 per person to cover those who DO NOT have insurance paid by the TAXPAYERS....
#6
When anyone dichotomizes an issue by tagging those they disagree with as "Liberals" or "Conservatives" or whatever, they are exposing their willful ignorance and rejection of anyone else's opinion. "Changing" the focus to insurance companies as the bad guys? PULEEZ! Insurance companies are the bad guys and that is why we needed legislation to reign them in.
As soon as ACA was passed the insurance industry saw an opportunity to screw their subscribers and profit from it (how unusual). Now the corporate media is saying it is all Obama's fault.
The promise "that you can keep your health care plan if you like it" was true at that time. The insurance companies changed the plans PERIOD!
#7
As soon as ACA was passed the insurance industry saw an opportunity to screw their subscribers and profit from it (how unusual). Now the corporate media is saying it is all Obama's fault.
The promise "that you can keep your health care plan if you like it" was true at that time. The insurance companies changed the plans. Thank you THom for pointing this out. I will be sure to share it.
#8
Well said!!!
#9
If you can confuse you can deceive.
#10
The insurance policies that were canceled should have died. They may have cost $55 a month, but they were worthless, and many didn't cover hospitalization, prescription drugs, mental health, maternity. And many of them refused those who had any kind of ailment, especially chronic conditions. And many also limited their liability so that if got really pricey, they would just not pay. Many of those people (and Fox news, which probably knows but refuses to say this) are eligible for subsidies. If you make $45,000 or less you are probably eligible.
The right-wingers and conservatives who have fought this law at every turn and tried to weaken it at every turn are now busy spreading false information.
Pay attention and learn from a neutral site like Consumers Reports (which takes no money from anyone and does not have any advertising). There are others. Some newspapers have good information.
#11
I wonder if the agents who mislead the customers and convinced them to give up their grandfathered policies were given monetary incentive to do so! This needs to be investigated! Could be a calculated double cross by the insurance companies.
#12
Global says "change the focus to the insurance companies as the bad guys, we need to destroy them. Are you kidding me -- are liberals that gullible and that stupid to believe this BS[?]." I won't even bother quoting the unintelligible babble preceding these remarks.
Are you conservatives dumb enough to defend a bunch of hacks who sell junk insurance policies that don't cover diddily squat? Because these are the REAL "death panels". So I ask you, Global: is this your idea of a legitimate, upstanding enterprise? - Aliceinwonderland
#13
I rest my case, you all do live in a fantasy land. Medicare for all and to all a good night. How are you going to pay for that? How many doctors will be left in practice that will accept the Medicare Payments? Do you really want to give up your health care to the government, can you imagine all the regulations and denial of critical care that would most certainly be the common practice. Reminds me of a famous quote --
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
#14
Gator Girl says "Too long the uninsured - many of whom had the money to purchase insurance - did not do so prefering instead to allow the taxpayers foot the bill for them. They, too, were leeches just as the insurance companies." I don't think so.
Later in the same post GG says "I have no sympathy for any of you who don't and end up being fined. WE are tired of paying for your lazy ASSES and having it cause OUR insurance to increase - at last indication about $1,000 per person to cover those who DO NOT have insurance paid by the TAXPAYERS...." Again, GG, I beg to differ.
As I see it, health "insurance" is nothing but government-sanctioned EXTORTION. And if someone's going to rob me, honey, they'd better be armed with a gun or a knife. Otherwise I'll be damned if I fork it over on command! If that makes me a lazy ass and a "leech" in your book, well then, so be it. I'll just have to manage without your sympathy. But you overlook one thing, GG: us "leeches" are taxpayers too.
I also think it's pathetic how this predatory system of healthcare apartheid pits us small fry against one another. Perhaps you should reconsider your judgment towards those who, like me, can't afford these junk policies or simply refuse to comply. In my case, it's all of the above. So... sue me, then! Or better yet, try directing your anger where it belongs.
The real blame lies with insurance hacks who take people's money, then abandon them when they have a crisis. It is our government's responsibility to give us Medicare For All. There is absolutely NO WAY to justify the abuse we've been subjected to under our current system. Not only is it inhumane, uncivilized, barbaric and cruel; it is economically indefensible and it is unnecessary. And the suffering it causes is mind blowing. People are dying prematurely and being bankrupted because of it, by no fault of their own. And need I remind you who's paying for the nice, tidy SOCIALIZED healthcare system all 500+ members of Congress, the president and those nine Supreme Court justices all enjoy, while we make do with this crap?! Gimmie a break. - Aliceinwonderland
#15
Regarding Medicare For All, Global asks: "How are you going to pay for that?" The same way we paid for Star Wars, bombs and drones, silly boy.
Next clueless question: "Do you really want to give up your health care to the government, can you imagine all the regulations and denial of critical care that would most certainly be the common practice[?]" Global, Global, Global... what do you think we've had up to now? Hospital care not covered, pre-existing conditions not covered, out-of-network care not covered, birth control not covered (while Viagra is covered!!!); so-called "experimental" treatments not covered, even when prescribed by doctors... need I go on?!! Obstacles and barriers, galore.
So who is the author of that thought-provoking, "famous" quote? Glenn Beck? Rush Limpballs? Bozo the Clown? - AIW
#16
Wow, what a mess. I said years ago on this blog, be carefully what you wish for it might come true. Health care is expensive no matter who runs it. Global is right who is going to pay for it? If it's like Canada the answer is simple the middle class. I will say it again start saving today you are going to need it.
#17
Quote Global:Reminds me of a famous quote --“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
Global ~ So... You're saying you're a liberal?
Reminds me of that other famous quote--
"It takes one to know one."
#18
Hah-hah! Bull's eye, Marc.
Kend, go soak your head. With luck, it might improve your ability to absorb and retain information and facts when they are presented to you, here and elsewhere. - AIW
#19
Quote Kend:Global is right who is going to pay for it? If it's like Canada the answer is simple the middle class. I will say it again start saving today you are going to need it.
Kend ~ Why don't you and Global admit it. You are both full of $h*t. Where is the great Exodus from Canada? Humm? Seniors here travel there by the bus load just for affordable medicine. I don't see you applying for US citizenship. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? When was the last time you scheduled a procedure here in the good old US? I know a Doctor that would love to give you a Colonoscopy.
#20
Quote Aliceinwonderland: I also think it's pathetic how this predatory system of healthcare apartheid pits us small fry against one another. Perhaps you should reconsider your judgment towards those who, like me, can't afford these junk policies or simply refuse to comply. In my case, it's all of the above. So... sue me, then! Or better yet, try directing your anger where it belongs.
Aliceinwonderland ~ You so hit the nail on the head with that one. It is really quite amazing what the Insurance Industry has gotten away with through the years. I remember when I was in my 20's and paid $350/mo for the policy I had back then. Of course that was a lot of money back then. That was a loooooong time ago. When I think about how much cash I dished out over the period of a decade = $42K I could pull my hair out. I must have seen the doctor 3 times during that period. That's less then $450 worth of medical expenses. The insurance industry made out like bandits. (Like bandits?) Later, when I changed policies I lost all that money and will never see any of it again in this life time. Gone! Adios! However, If I paid that same money into Medicare for all through my taxes, that money would be sitting there for me till I die--accumulating, and earning interest for me the rest of my life. By the time I was 50 we are talking about $210K in taxes. If invested properly that comes to roughly $750K in total potential revenue ready for any medical emergency I may ever have; regardless of whether or not I change jobs or are unemployed. That is the big difference between for profit and government run health care. With government run care the money stays working in your name and earns interest. You never lose a dime. In fact, everything you pay in continues to earn money for you even when you can't pay in. From this conservative estimate we can extrapolate that the Insurance Industry easily extorts at least $1M from every one of it's members over the course of a lifetime until the age of 65 when their needs for health care increase dramatically. With for profit the money goes straight down the drain unless you get sick before your policy expires. Again, remember, this is a conservative estimate. Medicare for all is a no brainer--except, for those with no brain.
#21
Yep! You just hit the ball out of the park Marc, yet again. And this is how we've - uh, involuntarily - created a parasitic, pampered class of Welfare Queen Billionaires! Have fun paying your premiums, Global. - AIW
#22
I hate to get off-topic here, but can't resist. Remember that message I received a few days ago from Karl Rove, asking me to donate to the Republi-cons? My reply: "Kiss my socialist ass." Well, yesterday I received the same message again from Rob Collins, Executive Director of the NRSC (National Republican Senate Committee?). My reply: "You privatizing, healthcare-denying little fascists can just kiss my SOCIALIST ASS!" Well, these guys apparently don't know how to take "NO" for an answer, because this evening I've heard from another one of these numbnuts; this time, Senator Jerry Moran, Chairman of the NRSC, who says: "I wanted to make sure you saw Karl Rove's e-mail. We can win the majority in 2014, but only if supporters like you take action today to ensure we have the resources to win." (Sounds like a goddam football game! tsk) "The Democrats know they're in danger of losing, so they're stepping up their fundraising efforts. We can't let them out do us. Please contribute $100, $50, $25 or what you can today..." and blah-blah-blah. My reply: "Sure, no problem fascists! One more nail in the coffin of democracy!" Then as an afterthought, I sent a second reply: "Dear Senator Moron, please remove me from your mailing list. You're wasting your time and mine." i don't reckon I'll be changing the political landscape one iota, but this sure is entertaining! - Aliceinwonderland
#23
Alice you know by now nothing is going to help me. I will continue to work endless hours, pay a massive amount of taxes and continue to support all of the liberals who don't.
#24
DAnne the there is a great exodus out of Canada. It's our doctors. Canada doesn't pay well, but Obama care will bring a lot of them back.
#25
Aliceinwonderland ~ That is quite amazing about those letters. Republicans trolling for contributions? Money is the one thing you would think they don't need. Perhaps even the wealthy are fed up with these clowns. They just don't get it do they? Usually way at the bottom of these robo-emails you can find some kind of link called "unsubscribe" or something like that. It is supposed to remove your name from the mailing list; but, sometimes it doesn't work. (Or at least doesn't work right away.) Of course you might want to just go ahead and keep receiving them just to see where they go. Like you said, it sure must be entertaining watching the Robber Barons ask for handouts.
#26
Quote Kend:DAnne the there is a great exodus out of Canada. It's our doctors. Canada doesn't pay well, but Obama care will bring a lot of them back.
Kend ~ Don't worry! I have no desire to see any Doctor who's sole motivation in life is profit. You are more then welcome to all of them; and, I hope their American counterparts follow as well. Good riddence!
#27
Alice, of course we would not expect you to pay for Medicare for all, that would defeat YOUR advantage of Medicare for all. Reminds me of another quote that all socialist enjoy -
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
a look into the future with Alice and her utopian wet dream of Medicare for all. ---
hello miss Alice of wonderland, welcome to sector 17 health Clinic. I see that according to when you set up this appointment 8 months ago you were concerned about a lack of energy and a vaginal discharge, are you still experiencing these symptoms? Take a seat, the doctors assistant will see you in a few hours. (Seventeen hous later) well miss Alice, sorry you are not feeling well. The paperwork I have here from the doctors assistant has you diagnosed according to regulation 27609 under code deep six. With your medical history, your skin color, and educational background we can offer you these pills to make you more comfortable. Regulation 609 gives you the right to appeal this ruling but you will need to set up an appointment with the regional progressive health board. Problem is that I hear they have at least a two year backlog. You may not have that much time. Word is on the street that there is a real doctor that used to practice medicine back in the days of free markets and many choices. He might be able to help you. He lives on the other side of town and only accepts cash, I can get you his address if you like.
Thanks for coming in and don't forget to update your chip on the way out so we can monitor your status. Have a nice day..
#28
I am sorry if this is off topic. This past week on the show Thom in a discussion about capitalism mentioned that there is an interpreteation of story of Cain and Abel as a metaphor for agrarian society triumphing over the hunter gatherers. I can't find any reference to this interpration. Can anyone share a link or a source? Thanks!
#29
DAnne the problem is 23% of Canadians can't get a family doctor.there isn't enough.
#30
Hello ignoramus jerkoff Global Chernobyl. Gee I must've really pissed you off. But... more on that later. First let's get to the politics, the real nitty-gritty here! The problem with this crony capitalism you love so much, Global, is that you eventually run out of poor people's money to steal. Here's a look into the future with Global's utopian wet dream of privatized everything: Welcome to Calcutta, USA, where Billionaire Welfare Queens live in a kleptomaniac's paradise and no one else has a pot to piss in, employed or not; where 99.999% of the population gets billed for the rainwater they collect in buckets, for bathing and cooking!
As for you Global, that last post of yours really takes the cake. Says an awful lot about you and the angry little white boy you are. I'm so sorry I've upset you. Go ahead, get it all off your chest while I sit back and marvel at the ugliness of your rant.
When someone loses control of his temper like you just did, pal, it's generally because he's lost the argument. And guys like you are sore losers. That is the sickest, most disgusting post I have seen on Thom's blog... Ever. Even Ken Ware's rants never quite reached the degree of filth that reeks from your diatribe. I can still make that claim, even after all the reams & reams of bullying crap Ken Ware used to dump on this forum, before I'd finally had enough and bailed last March.
Well piggie-poo, this time I'm not going anywhere. This time I'm flagging your slimy screed as offensive. With some luck, you'll be banned from this blog, and if so, good riddance! - Aliceinwonderland
#31
with all due respect Alice you have said much more insulting things to me.
#32
For example?
#33
Aliceinwonderland: I flagged it too. That was way uncalled for!
#34
Thank you, PD. - AIW
#35
"You all?" Too judgemental and categorical to be considered an intelligent response. I really would like to see things from your perspective to give me more insight into the norrow-minded Philistine mentality from which you come, but I cannot get my head that far up my ass, TROLL!
#36
Sorry guys, my private parts are off limits. - AIW
#37
Quote Global:a look into the future with Alice and her utopian wet dream of Medicare for all. ---
Oh, so we're pretending to be a fortune teller now, eh? Two can play that game. Let me look into your future in a utopian wet dream of free enterprise and pure for profit private Insurance run health care. The day is 11-10-2020.
The office of Old Doctor Young MD.
"Hello Mr. Global. Good to see you again. Please have a seat. I've called you in because as you know you were diagnosed 9 months ago with the condition of having acute Brain Farts. Last week we received the approval papers from your health insurance. I have good news and bad news."
"Oh, please Doctor, the good news first," says Mr. Global.
"Well, your condition is completely curable. It is caused by a small blood clot in your cerebral cortex putting excess pressure on the artery that supplies blood to the region of your brain responsible for reason. The treatment is a surgery which removes that clot and bypasses the damaged artery. You'll be back on your feet in a month and you will never again make a complete fool out of yourself," said Doctor Young.
"That is wonderful news Doctor. When are we going to have the surgery?"
"That's the bad news Mr. Global. The insurance has declined your claim. Apparently they feel that Brain Farts are a pre-existing condition. It seems you have been making a fool out of yourself long before you signed up for this policy."
"That's true! But up to now I was under the assumption that I was just an idiot. I had no reason to believe there was a sound medical cause of my condition until a good friend of mine recently recommended that I should get my head examined. Up till I saw you I thought my Brain Farts were a natural part of my personality."
"Nevertheless Mr Global. Your claim has been declined. You have two options. First option is you can go ahead with the surgery and pay out of pocket. The operation will run approximately $85,000."
"Jesus, I can't afford that!"
"There is another option. An experimental procedure. Your insurance would cover about 30%. We could perform a oral suture; that, in theory, would eliminate one major symptom of your Brain Farts."
"Please Doctor, what does that mean in English?"
"We could sew your mouth shut. It would effectively eliminate you making a fool out of yourself in public. However, you are still going to run into problems online and in social media. The procedure runs about $55,000. Your copay would be $38,000."
"I can't afford that either. Besides, the most damage my Brain Farts causes are online anyway. If those are my only options I think I'm just going to have to learn to live with the problem. Good day, Doctor."
"Just one minute, Mr. Global. There is one last issue."
"And just what might that be?"
"Again, I have good news and bad news."
"This time give me the bad news first."
"Very well! Your initial consultation, exam, tests and lab work, along with this appointment has maxed out your Insurance deductible."
"What?"
"You owe this hospital $6,500 payable immediately."
"You have to be kidding me. YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!!"
"Yes we did. We looked at you. We tested you. We talked to you. We told you what you need and what you've got. We've also talked to your Insurance Company for you. Now we are talking to you again and you owe us $6,500.
"You mean to tell me that I've shelled out already this year $18,000 in premiums to my Insurance Company for absolutely nothing and now I owe you an additional $6,500 to tell me what you aren't going to do?"
"Yep! That's about it Mr. Global. Isn't Capitalism wonderful?"
"So what is the good news, Doctor?"
"We accept cash, checks, money orders, or any major credit card. We try to make life easy for our patients."
"Arggggg!"
"Mr. Global! Mr. Global! Nurse Sprocket, get in here I think Mr. Global just had a heart attack."
"Oh, no!" Exclaimed Nurse Sprocket. "Should I call an ambulance?"
"No, nurse. Mr. Global's policy doesn't cover ambulance rides. Call him a Taxi."
"Were should I tell the driver to take him?"
"Anywhere but my office. Mail his bill to his wife."
Reminds me of another quote that all socialists enjoy -
"What goes around comes around!"
#38
Alice you tell me I am stupid all the time. You have caled me almost everything. You just told me to pull my head out of my ass. Maybe my butt is off limits too. Actually I could care less. Not that it bothers me but it isn't nice. It could offend some people. Being on the right side of this blog I guess I would be stupid not to expect it. Being financially responsible isn't very popular here.
I guess global could of thought of different Medical problem. Lets all put it behind us and keep solving the world problems.
#39
Global: I suggest that you just either delete that entry or at least edit it so that it is less personal. It seems to me only a misogynist would say such a thing. I've had to edit lots of things that I thought better of right after having submitted it. Maybe we all have.
#40
Quote Kend:Being financially responsible isn't very popular here.
Kend ~ Just what part about requiring everyone to have health care and limiting Insurers profits to 20 cents on the dollar is "financially irresponsible." You keep talking like we can't afford to care for all our citizens yet you fail to explain how we can afford not too. Forcing people to seek treatment in emergency rooms with We the People picking up the tab for preventable catastrophic medical conditions and allowing Insurance Companies to deny care and siphon off any profits they want seem to me to be the height of financial irresponsibility and waste. Your logic just makes no sense.
Quote Kend:Alice you tell me I am stupid all the time. You have caled me almost everything. You just told me to pull my head out of my ass.
Kend ~ She's just calling it the way we all see it. She's talking about your intellect. She's not sinking to the level of making up nonsense about your wanker.
#41
Quote Palindromedary:Global: I suggest that you just either delete that entry or at least edit it so that it is less personal. It seems to me only a misogynist would say such a thing. I've had to edit lots of things that I thought better of right after having submitted it. Maybe we all have.
Palindromedary ~ Lord knows I have. Sometimes I really have to muzzle it. Usually I catch myself before I push the submit button though. Not always. However, there are things I've said in 8th grade that I remember and regret to this day. Nothing is as hard to tame as a wild bull or a loose tongue. There are few things I have done that I regret as much as those that have come out of my mouth.
I know you're not a big fan of Bible quotes; but, this one so fits this topic I just can't help myself. Please find it in your heart to forgive me.
Holy Bible: King James VersionQuote Matthew 15:10 ¶And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Very sound advice if you ask me. It is easier to pull your head out of your ass then to pull your foot out of your mouth.
#42
Okay kend! I concede, you've made a valid point or two. There've been times when I've told you to pull your head out of your ass, or some variation of that theme. I agree, it wasn't nice and I should apologize. But you don't listen to anybody, kend. You keep repeating the same old talking points, no matter what anybody tries explaining to you or how many times we keep answering those questions. And it gets old.
Occasionally, interspersed with those redundant questions you keep ignoring the answers to, you'll dish out snide, condescending remarks like "Being financially responsible isn't very popular here" and "it really screws things up when facts get in your way doesn't it". Yet I've observed little evidence of your allegiance to facts. It's not really that I find you stupid, kend, but you say lots of stupid things.
As for this matter of body parts being referred to disrespectfully, okay; "ass" is crass. However "vagina" is something else again. Everybody's got an ass regardless of gender; not so with vaginas. This makes a huge difference. It targets women and is therefore, more abusive. Sorry kend, but there's just no comparison. We happen to live in a society where misogyny thrives. Rape is a common occurrence here in America. So in light of all that (which could be the subject of a whole of other conversation, I'll not take crap like that from any man. No sir.
However kend, I promise that from here on I'll behave myself, even when your questions & comments make my friggin' head explode. I hope that helps clear the air, kend, because that's all yer gunna git! - Aliceinwonderland
Kend wrote:
Being financially responsible isn't very popular here.
#43
Ohhh dang. Sorry 'bout that. - AIW
#44
It's [big] business as usual. Maybe the Tea Party is coaching the insurance companies to help destroy Obama care. Some call it a train wreck, but that wreck has Tea Party finger prints all over it. Seems to work fine in states where the state actually wants it to work.
#45
Alice, I am sure you are a lovely lady and somehow my Medicare for all scenario has offended you and that was not my intent and I feel bad about that and apoligize To you and anyone else that may have been offended. The intent was to show how offensive and how uncompassionate and detached the system would have to become from the private personal relationship people have with their doctor. Hope you can see it in that context.
#46
Alice you don't have to change anything for me. I am never offended. I am just trying to make the point that I am tired of working 16 hours a day so some guy that doesn't work at all gets the same health care as me. Is that wrong?
#47
Okay Global, apology accepted. And if you felt personally attacked or belittled by anything I've said, I'm sorry. It's your opinions, not you, I'm at odds with. My intent all along, in this discussion, has been to show the cruelty of our for-profit healthcare system. It has destroyed many lives, Global, whether you want to recognize it or not. This isn't just some fantasy I've created; it's a fact, easily proven and well documented. Until our system of healthcare delivery is switched to something better, that truly serves the interests of health instead of profit & greed, people will continue losing everything; in some cases, life itself. Until that changes, all of us are at risk, even those who've paid into the system and are insured. If you are American, Global, that includes you. In a country as rich as ours, it is completely unnecessary. It is unacceptable. It is a form of tyranny, one of the biggest issues of our time, and I will continue speaking out about it whenever appropriate. - Aliceinwonderland
#48
Yes kend, it is wrong. Like I keep saying over and over, healthcare is a simple human right; it is not a commodity. Your long workdays might entitle you to a bigger house and more stuff, if that is what you want; however it does not make you more entitled to healthcare. This is really about who we are as a country. Everybody should have a right to healthcare, food, shelter; life's barest necessities; even the so-called "least among us" (a term I hate, by the way). This is the kind of society I want to live in, that DAnneMarc, Palindromedary, Marc Saulys, "10K", Nora, Loren Bliss and many others want as well. A civilized society. If you or Global have a problem with that, I'm sorry. When the discussion gets heated, I'll try keeping insults to a minimum. But TV pundits and their masters are fair game! - Aliceinwonderland
#49
Right on, Willie W!
#50
Alice, If health care is a human right then why stop at just our countries, shouldn't we take it further and have one world universal system. Countries like ours should pay even more personal taxes and supply everyone world wide with the same equal care.
Yes i agree children and seniors should be taken care but able bodied healthy people should have to pay there own freight.
Why should someone who chooses to drink, smoke and gamble there money away when I choose to put mine in a good insurance policy get the same level of care.
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Yesterday, the first day of McAuliffe's sojourn as Virginia's Governor, he rescinded an executive order allowing homosexuals to be fired for that reason. When will Obama rescind Bush's embargo on the release of the Presidential papers of his predecessors? Perhaps Obama has activities of his own which he would not like to see the light of day.