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I liked at the bottom of the ballot where the tax payer finally gets to vote for a few laws.
Why do we need politicians again, when it all falls in and collapses;
Let us vote for everything ourselves next time. Is it about the tax payer or the politicians just getting re-elected, get real. Politicians work for themselves.
Then business will just have do do the right thing to survive.
Ah, in a perfect world.
Impeach roberts, alito, scalia, thomas and kennedy.
C8 I can't speak for others, but I don't understand what you're saying:).
Ou812 RE#22: What are the numbers from the PACs? Of course, we have to wait for the money that arrived after Oct 16 to determine that more completely.
Another thing that should be mentioned is that money is not what really counts. What really counts is the propaganda on TV/radio and elsewhere. Usually, the correlation coefficient between money and propaganda is almost 1. In the Eric Cantor race a few months back, that correlation was headed toward zero. Since Maryland is in the same broadcast area as Eric Cantor's, I wonder if Hogan's acceptance of public financing was based on the same situation.
I wonder if anyone will understand what I am saying.
Mark, while I agree with your point regarding the value in speaking the “language” of the working class, I am troubled by your repeated jabs at intellectuals. I think a strong argument can be made for the value of intellectuals in any social movement. In light of the general anti-intellectualism long promoted by Faux Snooze fascists and their ilk, I question the wisdom of promoting anti-intellectualism in progressive circles, no matter how well intentioned. And I’ve no doubts as to the positive nature of your intent. I happen to think intellectuals have their place in class struggle. And I read The Nation, by the way.
I also happen to be a huge fan of both Hartmann and Miller. Both these talk show hosts have filled a void in our media landscape that needed to be filled, and I for one am grateful for the contributions both have made to the dialaogue. I have seen and heard no evidence of the elitism you speak of; to the contrary, I’ve found them both extremely refreshing in this fascist media environment.
I have long felt resentment towards the white working class for their antiquated, backwards way of thinking as well as their racism. For as long as I can recall they have been an obstacle to progress in any form. Anyone who prefers Bill O’Reilley is an idiot, in my opinion, and I do not share your sympathy for such people. I think it will be a cold day in hell before those redneck fools join forces with us towards any objective, no matter the potential for benefitting us all including the rednecks themselves.
This is a divided country, and we are ill advised to blame the likes of Thom Hartmann and Randi Rhodes. Blame Rupert Murdock, that Aussie fascist, who has hijacked so much of our media! Blame Bill O'Reilley! And please stop peeing on our side of the fence! - AIW
...and now is the time to sit down and make a list of all the personal freedoms you presently enjoy...
...and kiss that list goodbye.
How does a party candidate get elected to office?
How does an incumbent you dislike get removed from office?
Crying at the TV screen or ranting to Tom is not the answer people.
Dems, Greens, Independants, etc only have themselves to blame. Conservatives know the drill. Why can't others in this country do probably the most important thing they can do to shape this country's future?
Even if it's unfair with pay to play, we had an opportunity.. the turnout shows we blew it.. big-fracking-time. The first question I'm going to ask if people still complaining about the person in office now... Did you go vote? I bet I know what the answer will be
Every election is important but, this was probably one of the most important elections considering the state America's economy is in. Did you want to prevent or remove fracking from your area? Good luck doing that now. Did you want to re-evaluate the incarceration rate in your city? Good luck getting anywhere. Etc, Etc, Etc
Why can't anyone who is even slightly left of center walk the walk when it comes to voting? There's so many sites on the internet explaining all candidate's platforms. So not knowing is not an excuse. Stuck at work is not an excuse. You may have been able to vote early. You may have even been able to tell your boss you need to go vote, and by law, they wouldn't have been able to do anything to stop you. Really dissappointing.
Well, it's time for our remaining elected Democrats to go to their offices and go back to sleep. This can let the Republicans continue their relentless pounding away on their talking points for the next two years. If the electorate doesn't know the Republicans oppose almost everything voters support it's because the Democrats don't function as an opposition party. Now that the Republicans will control everything that comes up for vote, do the Democrats assume the bipartisan role? Obama will have plenty of opportunity for 'compromise' now 'cause everything is on the table! The Dems allowed the voter to forget what things were like six short years ago and who got us there. So in '16 we'll still be chasing the crazies further to the right, incapable of actual representation of the majority of the American People and the Common Good. Will the last person leaving please turn out the lights and never mind counting the silverware.
Reply to Saulys:
Your statement reminds me of the saying "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit". I'm baffled...the election of a public financed candidate in Maryland proves public financed elections work..just not the way YOU want them too.
*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*
We can't vote our way out of this situation unless we do a big push to replace an overwhelming number of the bad people all at once. But we have to use that big push to do everything we can--not just elect decent politicians, but reform the system that makes doing that so difficult.
Now, only so much of this can be done at the federal level, so that's where our choice of people matters the most. But at the state level, we also have referenda.
I have blog posts on here about the fundamentals of how we let people into various parts of the government, not that anyone seems to care. But I've got ideas for changing the election of legislators, districting, appointments to the supreme court, etc. (I can't get to some of my old blog posts. Once I can, I'll probably clean house and see if I can delete the ideas I no longer advocate, though there's at least one I need to add.) If my ideas aren't as good as they could be, suggest modifications.
Please, let's change the election system, and not just the people elected through it. Let's hold referenda on the system, and not just on legislative issues.
JoeSchmoe, Thom is a pundit or an editorializer and not a journalist and doesn't pretend to be otherwise which is why calling him a shill is way off the mark.
Your Maryland election was anomolous, Ou812, usually big money wins because advertizing and PR is effective - which is why both are billion dollasr industries. Most of the time big money wins but with deregulation of PACs in Citizens United it's not at all necessary for the candidate to posess the big money. "Astroturf" organizations are essential to modern PR.
Add to that divisive campaigns of hate mongering, self censoring and disinforming advertizer driven big business media, voter supression (many key elections were close), red shifting voting machines and limp, lackadaisical Democrats cutting their own throats with bad public posture and you'd be surprised it wasn't worse.
I certainly hope truth, justice, concern for your fellow people, etc. aren't "washed up" concerns and values. Someone may well not know what's happening here, Ou812, but it also may well not be who you think.
For openers, I’d just like to say that I am not surprised. The outcome of this election is exactly what I expected.
10K, I am enjoying your comments, and could really use some cheering up right about now. Yeah voting machines are classic tools of election fraud; what else is new? And your reference to “Kentucky fried citizens” cracks me up.
Mauiman, the Repugs may have “won” the Senate (just like I predicted) but there is nothing “fair and square” about it. Citizens “United”, election fraud, voter suppression, voters’ names “purged” under false pretense, ridiculous, obstructive voter ID laws…. “fair and square”? I don’t think so.
George R, in response to the final paragraph of your long and informative post, I will add that one of the few comforts for me has been our growing Hispanic and Asian populations. I pray for the day when white folks are no longer the majority in this country, because the white working class is virtually brain dead. I see no other way to de-throne this dynasty of rich old white men than eliminating the white majority. From where I sit, this can't happen soon enough.
Mystic, I’ve shared your hope that the people will finally wake up from their Faux-induced stupor when things get bad enough. The question is, how bad is bad enough? That’s the hundred-billion-dollar question. - AIW
P.S. JoeShmoe, since you are so unhappy with Thom Hartmann, why do you even listen to him? In case you haven’t noticed, at least 85% of talk radio is of the kleptofascist neocon persuasion. I’m sure that Rush Limpballs or Glenn Pecker would be more your speed.
P.P.S. Thom Hartmann is not a journalist; he’s a talk show host. (DUHH.) And a damn good one too!
Reply to Mystic,
The election for governor in Maryland was a public funded election at least for the Republican Candidate. Because Hogan took public money, his spending was limited. The Democrat candidate chose to go the big money funding route. We were inidated with negative ads about the Republican candidate. It backfired on the Democrats, and cost them the election. I'm glad you and the rest of the washed up lefties feel like you do. Because feeling that way will blind you to the fact that you need to change. To paraphrase Bob Dylan "Something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mystic".
Progressive talk radio is also a problem. Air America was a big factor in Dems winning in 2006 and 2008.
Al Franken should never have given in to vanity and run for Senate. He was good at what he was doing before. The real power is not in halls of government but in the streets with the people and he was masterful at that. He made senators, congressmen and presidents and unmade them the same way, waking up and mobilizing the people
I miss Ed Schultz. He would've either prevented the catastrophe or made it not so bad (which means he probably would've prevented it since it was close). He speaks the language of the blue collar worker, most of the other progressive talkers are so indulgent of their intellectual elitism - even when their lack of worldly knowledge arguably makes all their theory bound spouting irrelevant.
Thom increasingly seems to slide into that kind of elitism veritably sneering at people who don't already agree with him or who don't read The Nation. Stephanie Miller is the worst, making fun of everybody who has a rural accent. Thom's elitism is professorial, Miller's is that of the spoiled undergrad. It's no wonder the blue collar worker prefers Bill O'Reilly.
(Don't get me wrong, Thom is very capable of being a regular guy but this being on top of talk radio seems to go to his head sometimes and he gets self righteously self important like some self appointed pope. I find him worth listening to still and all but elitism is the worst for movement building.)
Is there truth to the stereotype that lefties are slackers? Already a year or a year and a half ago Harry Reid decided not to end the filibuster because he'd already decided that the Dems were gonna lose the Senate in the next mid term like it was a fait accompli. Already a year and a half ago the Dems had already written off the Senate.
When Howard Dean was in charge we won, he didn't write off anything. When the 50 state strategy was implemented was the only time we ever won. I'll bet Republicans don't leave an ything to chance like that. Bet they don't go home or go party when there's something that can be had if you put a little work into it.
How much voter suppression? How much "red shift" by Diebolt? How much fraudulent public disinformation by the Repugnants and an eagerly compliant big business media? (The last one probably the greatest factor.)
Spending by candidates doesn't count all the PACs.
Secret Ballot. I'm not an election judge in Florida, but it sounds like the voter that complained about his ballot # being recorded on a receipt was probably voting provisionally. In the case of provisional voting, they must record your ballot in order to decide whether to count it later or not. Hopefully their are safeguards to prevent access to how someone voted before deciding whether to count the vote or not.
"Personal Responsibility" is a means to shift responsibilty onto someone else. During the bank meltdown, the right kept saying it was the personal responsibility of the people taking out loans. In the case of Katrina, it was the "personal responsibility" of the people to evacuate New Orleans (even though Ike proved that you CAN NOT evacuate a large city (Houston) in a short order of time). We don't say that that it is the personal responsibility of the soldiers in the trenches for losing the battle. CEOs like to say that earnings improvement was their personal responsibility, but it's someone else's fault that earings are poor.
I remember when the BP spill first happened, there was talk about boycotting BP. Then we quickly learned that oil companies sell to each other, so you can't say "no" to BP gas without saying "no" to all gas. And if you boycott the local BP station, you're just hurting the small-time station owner. The only way to really avoid BP is to get off of gas completely, which I am trying to do, but for financial reasons. I've got my daily commuting down to 8 miles round trip. Not too shabby. If only they made electric tractor-trailers to deliver the goods that I buy. I'd go out of my way to patronize any company that delivered its goods via non-gasoline-powered means.
I would not say we lost fair and square. The republicans cheated at every level possible. Using every dirty trick in the book, they got the elections close enough to steal. They traided their souls for unlimited corporate money. Nothing was fair about this elections.
Looks like they did (Buy the election).
Thom, I will be in the dentist chair for the first hour of your program today, please riff on these points as you see fit.
Pondering the implications of this disaster is rather overwhelming. Somehow the bullies Scott Walker and Chris Christy managed to win re-election. It seems the further right the candidate, the more dark money got thrown at them. Joni Earnst may be even more whack-a-doodle than Sarah Palin. Seems they proved that money can overwhelm honest speech.
One big loss that isn’t obvious is that Elizabeth Warren will no longer hold a majority party position on the Banking and Finance committee. We just had settlements on the Libor scandal, and the banks are currently poised to pay up to Billion dollar fines in the Foreign Exchange rate fixing scandal, but now I’ll bet they just delay until after the new Senate is installed, and those enforcement actions will quietly go away (most likely in return for big campaign contributions, wink wink, nod nod).
Along those lines, if we don’t perp walk Mitch McTurtle and others to prison for campaign violations concerning coordinating with the dark money advocacy groups, then expect an order of magnitude more arrogant disregard for the law in the next general election. Same goes for Secretaries of State who illegally obstructed elections all over the country, disenfranchising voters and possibly even engaging in election rigging. We need to stand firm on any illegalities or we can expect to get totally steamrolled in the General.
I’m guessing the first thing Mitch McTurtle is going to do is eliminate the 60% veto that he used so ruthlessly the past number of years, and start cramming all kinds of stuff down our throats on party line votes with no veto challenge allowed. It would be harder to do that if he was in prison, and let’s hope we get a Democratic president next election, because with the Tea Party controlling all three branches (make that four with the Supreme Court), the whole country will look like Kansas before they get through.
Oh, and the chances of repealing Citizens United just went down the toilet, too many of the new majority benefited personally from it, they will never repeal it. It is now up to the states and the citizens to change our political structure, perhaps with statewide referendums. Not sure I want to open up the Constitution with a constitutional convention with this legislature in session.
Publically funded elections with strict limits on the amount a candidate can spend would force races to be based more on issues than on political slander. The one upside is that hopefully the people will see how bad the extreme right policies are, that is if the Dems can hold them accountable and not let them continue to shift the blame.
Batten down the hatches, I see stormy seas ahead.
Mystic
Here in Democrat controlled Maryland, Lt. Governor Anthony Brown, a Democrat spent over $20,000,000 in a losing effort to Republican Larry Hogan. Hogan who took public financing (first candidate in Maryland to do so) spent less than $5,000,000 in victory. Brown, called in Democrat big guns Bill and Hillary Clinton and President and Michelle Obama to campaign with him. The people have spoken.:) By the way, the winning margin was Brown 45%, Hogan 55%. It's Hogan' first ever run for political office.
I'm not holding my breath until I see a newspaper headline that says, "Voter Suppression Works!"
It would make an interesting statistical study. However, no media picked up on Shrub's gift from the Reich-wing of SCOTUS. Nor will they comment on the manipulation potential of the proprietary voting machine software.