Daily Topics - Thursday April 29th 2010
By louisehartmann
Hour One - Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, Pima County, AZ www.pimasheriff.org Arizona Immigration law...do AZ police consider this law sound or stupid?
Plus....It's 2010...do you know where your birth certificate is?
Hour Two - Matthew J. Brouillette www.commonwealthfoundation.org When did shooting guns become an appropriate form of political speech?!
Plus...Geeky Science- Dr. Janette Sherman www.nyas.org Chernobyl 24 years later - what you didn't know and why you need to know
Hour Three - S.E. Cupp author, "LOSING OUR RELIGION: The Liberal Media’s Attack on Christianity" www.redsecupp.com When did it become the job of the press to promote Christianity?
Comments
#2
I wonder what color the car is they're shooting up?
#3
Thom's current guest (Matthew Brouillette) amazes me, how did he train his ass to verbalize so well?
N
#4
@Maxrot: re training his ass: -by listening to FaUX.
#5
@Zenzane,
I've long been talking about the Drug War Exception to the 4th Amendment. Some of us are awake, but thanks for the gentle knock on the head.
#6
The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania where my alleged birth happened . . . Did not automatically issue birth certificates in 1962. I have a Notification of birth from the hospital in New Brighton, PA. I have official Birth Certificates from Beaver County obtained in 1982 and in 2004 so I could get my Passport.
The problem is that birth certificates are not actually proof of citizenship. They are documents declaring that the person identified by the document is eligible for citizenship due to being squatted out on USAian dirt. A lot can happen in the intervening years between birth and a mook being called out as an illegal alien. The person may have denounced his/her citizenship. The same goes for farging driver’s licenses. By this standard, I should be able to submit my gas or electric bill as proof of citizenship.
Passports are actual documents issued by the actual Federal government specifically designed to certify actual citizenship. As ACTUAL citizenship is required to gain a voter’s registration card, voter registration cards should be sufficient proof of citizenship.
#7
When did shooting a gun become an appropriate form of political speech?
I think it happened right around the time the people who shot their mouths off, found more and more people laughing at them and turning away.
N
#8
Although I’m against the AZ immigration law on principle, I looked it up and it says a driver’s license is acceptable proof, so it really should not be necessary for most people to produce a birth certificate.
So, is all the talk about birth certificates mostly aimed at those without driver’s licenses? Although I recognize the racist purpose of this bill and do not think people should be subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures without probable cause, I think it might be not quite accurate to say that people are going to have to start carrying around birth certificates.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf
A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
#9
That's one of my least offensive nicknames :b
#10
That chat with the libertarian wacko was brutal! When he has to laugh and say "We'll have to agree to disagree" you know he got a buttwhipping.
Note Thom's tactics, which were entirely fair: Ask for proof of the guy's lies. You don't have to call him a liar; the audience can figure it out when you challenge him for an example and he can't come up with one. And the bit about medical tourism to "socialist" states like India and Costa Rica was delightful!
#11
Thom, I know that you have goose-stepping conservatives on your radio show. The problem I have with these goose-stepping conservatives is that they make no sense in defending their racism.
#12
//" it says a driver’s license is acceptable proof,"//
Out-of-state driver's licenses from most states are not acceptable, to begin with.
#13
Thom,
Your conversation with Matthew J. Brouillette reflects what is so disturbing and self-defeating about trying to talk with corporatists and right-wingers. Brouillette not only does not KNOW the facts, he refuses to hear or read them.
I had the same problem with my Republican mother. She did not want to hear anything that conflicted with her existing opinions.
Why keep beating this dead horse?!
#14
I don't know why they would even care about subpoena-ing James Risen unless what he published was true and accurate and made them look bad. Which still is troubling, because if illegal/unethical things are going on, we should know about them. The "state secrets" loophole protects those in power too much from their bad behavior.
#15
@Gene: my least offensive nickname is "Nick".
#16
"Out-of-state driver's licenses from most states are not acceptable, to begin with."
The law does say: 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
So out-of-state licenses SHOULD count. I think the reality, though, is that more than a driver's license will be required by police, and really, what are those arrested going to do about it? They don't have the power.
#17
Maybe the time has arrived that minorities should lead the United States of Hell out of our hell-hole policies and practices.
#18
When did shooting a gun become an appropriate form of political speech? - Thom Hartmann
March 5, 1770, with the shooting of Crispus Attucks. The question of political violence is one that is, shall we say, impolitic in modern society. I am not advocating violence, and I don't think an armed insurrection would succeed at any case. But, how many of us are ready to disown George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, et al.? Or Toussaint L'Ouverture for that matter?
If we are not willing to disown our own founding fathers, if we are not willing to disown "everything is on the table" we harbor inconsistancies which others can easily point to.
#19
@Gerald: how about minority WOMEN?
#20
Safe Nuclear Power Plants, Clean Coal, Cheap Oil, Inefficient Solar Power Cells... welcome to opposite world where everything bad is good, and good is evil.
N
#21
Testosterone-free politics?
#22
Nuclear waste remains deadly exponentially longer than there has even been human civilization! Knowing that, why would we risk building even ONE nuclear power plant? Such hubris!
"The world hangs on a thin thread and that is the psyche of man. We are the great danger." ~ C.G. Jung
Anyone who is pro-nuclear power should be forced to watch this: http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essay/Chernobyl
Don't forget to click "play" after Paul Fusco's introduction.
#23
@Jeanie, how the written law exists and how police apply it always seem to be in stark contrast. What should be acceptable, won't be, doesn't matter if you do have a birth certificate, and speak without an accent, if the cop wants to give you a hard time, what's to stop the cop?
(Just adding to you're last point)
N
#24
re: pink guns: I saw a report of a local sheriff put his prisoners in pink, zipperless, pocketless clothing with draw-string. What the prisoners objected to most was lack of a zipper.
#25
@Jeanie,
The subpeanaing of James Risen is another part of Eric Holder's attempt to gloss over the illegal activities of the Bush Administration. We are continuing to maintain the wars on false pretenses. The deaths are still piling up, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, Pakistan not to mention Gaza through the US proxy state of Israel. US arms and aid continue to flow to both Israel and Egypt despite:
#26
I carried a pink umbrella up Wilshire Blvd. at a Code Pink event. Consider it an anti-gun...
#27
@Jeanie - with great respect, you are mistaken.
//The law does say: 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
So out-of-state licenses SHOULD count. I //
You see? Many states do NOT require "Proof of Legal Presense" etc.
The Aryanzona cops are free to ignore any DL that they, in their personal opinion, feel doesn't count. Let us hope that most of them are ethical enough to do otherwise.
But ICE is ALREADY arresting people for not carrying their B.C.s so don't think the staties won't too, especially in a state where the governor herself said she didn't know how to apply the law as written.
#28
RandyWinn, I stand corrected.
#29
@Zero G: don't forget an umbrella is also called a "bumberSHOOT".
#30
Speaking of Ann Wright (quoted above): and the color "pink", Wright is a member of Code Pink. One time i was interviewing her, and she was extolling the virtues of the color. I replied, "yeah...kind of reminds you of Ted Kennedy's eyes on sunday morning." she just kind of gagged.
"New Vaccine May Contain Rabies" -headline from leftwingwacko.com
#31
A Stephen Gaskin reference! Rare indeed...
He only smiled when I asked him if he was the inspiration for the Grateful Dead's St. Stephen, many years ago.
It reminded me of an old J.A. song...ReJoyce: (Another Steven, but Joyce isn't to be taken literally anyway...)
Chemical change, like a a laser beam
you've shattered the warning amber light
Wake me warm
Let me see you moving everything over
smiling in my room
you know, you'll be inside of my mind soon
There are so many of you
White shirt and tie, white shirt and tie,
white shirt and tie, wedding ring, wedding ring.
Mulligan stew for Bloom,
the only Jew in the room
Saxon's sick on the holy dregs
and their constant getting throw up on his leg.
Molly's gone to blazes,
Boylan's crotch amazes
any woman whose husband sleeps with his head
all buried down at the foot of his bed.
I've got his arm
I've got his arm
I've had it for weeks
I've got his arm
Steven won't give his arm
to no gold star mother's farm;
War's good business so give your son
and I'd rather have my country die for me.
There are so many of you
Sell your mother for a Hershey bar
grow up looking like a car
there are
All you want to do is live,
all you want to do is give but
somehow it all falls apart
#32
re: halliburton subcontractors: yeah, subcontracting is a favorite tool of the neo-cons. great way to diffuse the blame and save on wages.
#33
Tried to phone in today...circuits too crowded. It is essential that any conversation about nuclear power plants include a discussion about Three Mile Island. Let me direct your attention to "Three Mile Island Revisited" http://www.videoproject.com/thr-159-v.html. The popular mythology about this event in 1979 is that no one died, not true! Cancer rates in the area are off the map, birth defects in humans, cows born with two heads and genetically altered plant life are just part of the lasting legacy of "Three Mile Island". To this day radiation is being released into the atmosphere as it is with all nuclear plants. Americans must make the effort to be better informed about such issues, especially with a president extolling the virtues of this deadly technology. Stephen Long
#34
@Zero G. I know this comment comes a bit late, but I've been mulling over the comment of when did shooting guns become a political statement. You mentioned the American revolution in response. I agree. I've also been wondering when did the left give up guns/violence to achieve their goals (remembering that the Bolsheviks where considered leftists, yet where extremely violent). My impression is it started with Gandhi, and has carried through to this day. Not that I'm saying Gandhi was the first to try this tact (I'm sure several would point to Jesus), but in the modern age, he reminded people of the power of peaceful, non-violent protest. It almost seems to be a given now, that if your a real leftist/liberal/progressive, you're expected to be non-violent, and if your a right wing/conservative/asshole you're expected to cling to violence.
I don't know, what do you think? Have we divided ourselves so much, that we feel that its important to express our outrage differently? Used to be fight fire with fire, now it seems to be fight fire with water.
N
#35
@Harry,
Neither did Thom and Lamar explain the Umbrella Man in Dealy Plaza in Ultimate Sacrafice...
#36
Tried to phone in today...circuits too crowded. It is essential that any conversation about nuclear power plants include a discussion about Three Mile Island. Let me direct your attention to "Three Mile Island Revisited" http://www.videoproject.com/thr-159-v.html which has shown on Free Speech TV. The popular mythology about this event in 1979 is that no one died, not true! Cancer rates in the area are off the map, birth defects in humans, cows born with two heads and genetically altered plant life are just part of the lasting legacy of "Three Mile Island". To this day radiation is being released into the atmosphere as it is with all nuclear plants. Americans must make the effort to be better informed about such issues, especially with a president extolling the virtues of this deadly technology. Stephen Long
#37
@Jeanie: I was serious about my electric bill being proof of citizenship. The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power is a governmental institution and the bill shows that I am legally paying for the electric and water and sewer in the house I live in. The DWP recognizes that I live there . . . Just like a farging Drivers Liscence.
NOTE: Neither Driver Licenses nor power bills say anything about the status of anyone’s farging Citizenship.
#38
@Zero G: I think firepower as a political statement started with the invention of gunpowder.
#39
@Zero G: you're right, I know Jesus was extremely anti-gun (except holy-water guns),. re: umbrella man: I personally think umbrella man was there to signal the shooter in the storm drain (Rosselli?) that the act was "on".
"I wanted to be a philosopher, but i couldn't pass the metaphysical." - harry ashburn
#40
I went to the Rock Island Arsenal to visit my uncle's grave. The guard refused to accept my federally issued identity card as valid, but then accepted my state driver license. Eh?
#41
rladlof: it just shows that the Arizona Republicans didn't give much thought to the implications of this law. Or actually, maybe they did and didn't care.
#42
With . . .
> Texas school books being purged of actual history and science to make room for winger propaganda,
> Arizona subverting immigration law to institutionalize election engineering fraud and
> Oklahoma mandating that doctors rape their patients with a foreign object if they are considering certain legal medical procedures . . .
Does anyone else thing that Kansas must be being driven insane by other States out right-wing whackoing them?
#43
re; prop 8. i remember hearing about the Mormon contributions only from Thom. I purposely listened for it.
#44
Nels,
I can tell you this, the crowd that came to meet the Nazis at CIty Hall was not a Gandhian bunch...some were of course, but many responded with rocks and bottles thrown over the heads of the police.
Gandhi was confronting the British. Chalmers Johnson posits that the British could not remain a democracy and an Empire simultaniously and chose to give up the Empire. If Gandhi was confronting the Nazis, India would be German speaking today.
For that matter, without Malcolm X (whose admitted killer is being released,) and the Black Panthers etc., on the more extreme action front, I doubt Martin Luther King would have had as much traction. Many SNCC members also had questions about the efficacy of political violence.
Nietzche had it right IMHO: Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.
I have no real answers - only doubts.
#45
re: Kansas...its SO square.
#46
on yesterday's gun talk-
the story of the bars in az with 1 bar that had open carry that never got robbed and the unarmed bar that got robbed multiple times made me think of the levee problem where a town on 1 side of the river can break the levee of the town across the river. this floods the town on the other side and takes pressure off the remaining levee, saving the culprit town.
so, picture this: Cletus gets good and drunk on payday at the armed bar, buys a few rounds for friends. once he's good & hammered he heads home. when he leaves the bar he finds he's blown or lost all his money, all he has is his keys-and his gun.
"hmm", he thinks," the wife's gonna kill me." How does he keep the wife happy? he remembers that unarmed bar and uses his gun to rob it, thus saving his marriage.
#47
@Gene Savory
I'll play with words as much as anybody, and you've made a tasty comment. True-nuff the invention of gunpowder was not an attempt at the precursor to psychedelic light shows in pyrotechnic display. However, exothermic warfare goes farther back than that, think flaming pitch in catapaults for that matter.
#48
@Zero G: I think they called it Greek Fire.
#49
@Zero G. so are you saying it is appropriate to use violence from the left? If so, in all cases, or just in certain situations?
I'm not so certain I have a strong opinion one way or another on this at this time. Obviously few would want to stand idle while being beaten. On the other hand when firing the first shot, does a leftist ultimately betray their ideals?
N
#50
"Greek fire" was launched from warships. I think the Chinese used directed natural gas set afire as a defensive weapon.
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