President Obama fired the opening salvo on Thursday...
By louisehartmann
In negotiations over the so-called “fiscal cliff.” In a plan presented to Republicans by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, the President is asking for $1.6 trillion in new revenue by letting the Bush tax cuts expire on the richest 2% of Americans, and by increasing capital gains and estate taxes, which are mostly paid by very wealthy Americans like Mitt Romney. The President’s plan also calls for more stimulus spending on infrastructure and investments to help struggling homeowners refinance their homes. It also completely does away with the pesky debt-ceiling that Republicans have shown a willingness to exploit to force big spending cuts against the working class.
Under the President’s plan, the automatic spending cuts against social programs and the military will be stopped, but the President is putting up $400 billion in cuts to entitlement programs to be negotiated in 2013. Republicans responded to the proposal with outrage. Conservative Fox News talking head Charles Krauthammer called the deal worse than what General Robert E. Lee received at Appomattox after the Civil War.
At its core – this deal makes sure the wealthy pay their fair share again, it helps struggling homeowners, it puts Americans back to work rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, and it doesn’t throw grandma under the bus by destroying Social Security and Medicare…no wonder why Republicans hate it! It looks like the President has finally figured out how to negotiate and he should be willing to stick to his principles and take the nation over the made-up “fiscal cliff” if Republicans don’t want to do what’s best for the American middle class.
Comments
#2
I do understand the challenge you point out under our current Private Healthcare system; and though I can appreciate thinking things through, I do not buy into the obtuse "doom and gloom" rehtoric regarding Single Payer Healthcare.
So Australia's and Canada's population combinded is less than that of the U.S. To me what you just said is that we have 5x the capacity to increase that .60¢ per dollar paid by medicare to 100% tax paid. This would also level the field when it comes to astronomical cost for treatment.
I'll say it again...Redirect what we are wasting taxes on. We need not to "financially" support Israel or any other foreign Government for that matter. As George Washington said in his farewell address; "Why take from our own to give to another". Stop engageing in unnecessary and illegal wars, shut down 1/3 of our Military bases. As well remove Marijuana from being a Schedule One illicit drug; legalize medical Marijuana, and decriminalize recreational use and simple posession under an ounce. Stopp sending responsable working class tax paying Americans to prison for non criminal behaviour.
The U.S. wastes more money and time on its failed 40 year War on Drugs than ALL other countries combined. Legalize, Regulate, Educate.
And to correct you...Though Australia allows a person to purchase "private" health Ins. the majority of Australians do not and they receive A+ treatment...So much for that Greed and Jealousy; it must just be an American thing! Oh the tangled wed we weave.
#3
60 Minutes just did an expose' on Health Management Associates (HMA) which showed how doctors and hospitals were being pressured to, unnecessarily, put people into the hospital and keep them there for unnecessary extended times...which ran up the medicare charges. There was even a software program that the doctors and hospitals had to use that reprimanded a doctor for discharging a patient from the hospital until the quota (goal) was met.
A number of former employees (doctors and others) spoke out...even a former FBI agent later employed by HMA, who realized what was happening, spoke out. This expose' had been anticipated by HMA and they had their lawyers trying to put a stop to the 60 Minutes piece. Looks like 60 minutes went ahead with it anyway. There appears to be a lot of "chatter" on the internet that had been created prior to the 60 Minutes piece trying to counter it. Seems they did a PR sweep in anticipation of the story.
HMA owns something like 70 hospitals in the US.
We keep finding out about all of this medicare fraud...and it is mostly all coming from the medical/insurance establishment (scams by doctors, hospitals and insurance companies) and not from patients. I hope that our law enforcement and legal people can eventually stop all of this criminal waste of tax payer money....throw a bunch of these scumbuckets into prison.
#4
Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way that copying & pasting into this blog from a Word document doesn't work, at considerable cost of time &effort. Even now, having finally figured that out, I'm still reluctant to send long messages all in one piece; hence these segments. After reading Mr. Global's latest comments, I've a hunch this response will be longer than most.
Before going any further, I'd like to tip my hat to Thom as host of this blog, giving us all a platform from which to share thoughts & ideas while debating the issues. I doubt there's been a time in the history of this country when the need for discussions of this sort have been greater.
#5
Since Mr. Global has brought health care into this discussion, I say, bring it on! That issue has been a thorn in my side for some time now. I welcome the opportunity to counter these neo-con talking points Mr. G articulates so well. Just the same old stuff corporatized media has hammered at us for years. I've grown sick of the gloom & doom, fear mongering bull crap neo-con pundits never tire of spewing from their ivory towers, echoed by their converts in the trenches below. Medicare, headed for a train wreck?! Only if we allow good-ole-boy Republican hacks and their Blue Dog buddies to get their thieving hands on it. Same goes for Social Security. Be very afraid.
#6
Behold the freak show unfolding all around us, and the depths of corruption this country has sunk itself into! Wow-we, what a mess. I've watched it develop & grow literally for decades. Ever hear that fable about the frog that boils to death? He gets cooked because the water he sits in heats so gradually, he fails to notice before it is too late. Well, that story reminds me of where we're headed as Americans. Throughout my adult life I've watched with growing concern as the most basic functions of society and our public domain have gradually been taken over by oligarchs. What remains of the commons, owned by everyone and no one, is now the target of corporate privatization schemes. Through the decades, especially since the 1980s, these forces have grown ever larger and more powerful. This is what I, and like-minded people, perceive as the real threat to freedom... not to mention the toll it has taken on our democracy.
#7
As a Baby Boomer I've witnessed and lived through quite a transformation in this society. I remember it was the state, not parents or teachers, who covered the cost of children's school supplies: textbooks, paper, pencils and so on; and we had a school nurse, all paid for by tax revenue. I remember a time when higher education was virtually free in this country. Even television was free... No satellite or cable bills to pay! (Imagine that!!) I recall living in a society & economy where one job, one person's income, could support a family - even in blue collar occupations - and where most working class folks owned the houses they occupied. People had pensions and other retirement benefits provided by the companies they'd worked for as well as Social Security. Ahh, the golden days of the middle class! Seems light years behind us now. (SIGH)
#8
While healthcare here was never part of tax-supported infrastructure (unlike all other developed nations! Ahem...), it was still non-profit when us Boomers were growing up. Paying doctor bills was no big deal back then. I don't recall, as a child or young adult, ever hearing of anyone bankrupted by medical bills. Unlike all members of my generation, I've a basis of comparison rooted in first-hand experience. Our current system is as different from that as night from day.
#9
As for Global's assessment of our "uniquely American" healthcare crisis, our views diverge on a number of points: for starters, Medicare not reimbursing doctors and hospitals enough. The reason for this is quite simple. It's only because our corporate-controlled Congress refuses to fix it, failing to make necessary adjustments in Medicare's budget or to allow effective negotiating with Big Pharma that could bring drug prices down. Not enough health care professionals?! Baloney. We need only make higher education more affordable again, and return healthcare to the commons where it belongs (preferably as single payer!). We'll have all the doctors & nurses we need. And oh by the way... Hooray for Planned Parenthood! They've been there for me.
#10
If walking around as "targets" is something we come to accept, along with gloom & doom predictions of deprivation, squalor and chaos, these shall indeed become self-fulfilling prophesy. Like most progressives however, I say no thanks to that. Our healthcare crisis is as glaring an example as one could find to illustrate the inevitable consequences that occur when vital public services get sucked into the so-called "free market". Yeah it's free all right, but not for us "ordinary" folks; only for the goons & tycoons who own it and lord it over us. Their sole purpose is to extract as much profit as they can, from every aspect of our lives. Thus our entire healthcare system has been hijacked, by entities that hold no regard for our interests or collective wellbeing. Yet Global decries the "slippery slope" of government regulation, preferring we wear that target on our hides as if this were a problem with no possible solution. Enough already! I'm just not buying it.
#11
Global, you make awfully ominous predictions of the "crappy" health care we'd all have in store, if those wicked socialists ever took over the system! Haven't you noticed how crappy it already is, under our current status quo?! Then there's that worn-out argument conservatives like Mr. G fall back on again and again, imploring us to "imagine the bureaucracy" of a universal system... as if everyone automatically covered would mean more paperwork! My gosh. Don't they see how the current system fits that profile?! It's nothing but a big-ass bureaucracy!! A bureaucracy whose sole purpose it is to maximize their profits by denying us care. And you can bet your A$$ they're operating behind closed doors. As for death panels, we've already got those. They're called INSURANCE COMPANIES. Those are the real death panels. They're into controlling costs all right, and an awful lot of people are dead because of it.
#12
The neo-con Tea Party message is all about scarcity, competition, distrust and strife. They live in a world where any personal triumph that's ever achieved comes at someone else's loss or expense. It's a Ayn Rand sort of world where self-interest is all that matters. And they can have it. Beam me up, Scotty!
#13
Right on! Aliceinwonderland! All good points!
#14
The Times Are A Changing.
...Unfortunatly ya gotta be of the upper 2% in order to keep up!
Alice this response is to your latest 5 or 6 post; which are based on the same subject.
First I want to say that is was both Global and I that started the discussion on Healthcare and have been debating back and forth...Glad you got involved with the discussion. If you have read my posts you will find that you and I both share a simmilar view regarding Single Payer Healthcare. As well you and I also understand that Stalinism was not the Socialism that Marx and Engles spoke of. Unfortunatly Stalinism is what most of the baby boomers tend to relate to when it comes to Socialism...Thanks to the paranoid McCarthy era rehtoric which carelessly tied Socialism to Communism. And no we (Americans) don't want Stalinism. What we want is what Howard Zinn (paraphrasing Marx and Engles) described as a Social Democracy; A democratic elected government, equalization of resources, and to help people by leveling the playing field that has been stolen by the Robber Barrons under an absolute Corporate Capitalist system. Unfortunatly - as Global points out - most Americans are too greedy and jealous for Socialism to work. HOGWASH! Though it is true ALL humans can be greedy, and jealousy is a natural emotion, especially under an unregulated Capitalist system and two tierd Justice System that exploits us and allows for people with money and something to gain to get away with looting and plundering others for profit, most people - including Global - want essentially the same thing...Life, Liberty, and Happiness. And yes under a Social Democracy there still can be gain and profit, but at least it is more balanced and not so slanted towards those greedy scum bag Robber Barrons.
And when it comes to Healthcare...Why shouldn't EVERY American have coverage. I myself - like many other working class Americans - do not have Health Ins because I cannot afford the cost. But Life still happens...Just 3 weeks ago I suffered a terrable injury that caused me to have to go to the ER. Now as I was being cared for I never once thought about the expense, however 15 hrs later as my wife and I were leaving we placed bets on how much this was going to cost us. I said (optomistically) under $10k she said $15k. Fortunatly I won, but it was bitter sweet since we now have to pay off a $9k medical bill. Our combined gross income is just over 38k per year and we don't live above our means (which means we don't have luxury items and credit debt, yet we still can not afford Healtcare Ins). Now we were able to get 10% nocked off the bill and we "plan" to pay it off over the next year, which isn't too bad, but what if it was worse, and often times it is. What does a person without Healthcare Ins. do with a medical bill that is much more than $10k. Or what does one do when tests and on going treatment(s) and medication is needed. What would Global do???(assuming he didn't have Insurance).
There is absolutly no reason for any American to go bankrupt over medical treatment or be denied medical treatment do to not being able to afford healthcare Ins.
In my opinion any developed and organized country that considers itself to be "world leaders" and does not provide affordable Healthcare and Education for all, yet spends trillions of dollars engaging in unnecessary and illegal wars is far from being a "world leader". The reality is is that the United States IS NOT a world leader. We are not even in the top ten when it comes to our Healthcare and Education system on a whole. But we do lead the developed world in debt, incarceration, and defence spending. We spend more on defence than all our allies combined. This is disheartening.
#15
The healthcare Obama care appearantly is here to stay In some form. The mob rule mentality made that clear as it was rammed through by one party. My objections without getting into a 1000 word dissertation is it is total government over reach into the sovereignty of the individual and it is another huge government program that will be a budget cost forever. When I say beuracracy I mean brick and mortar government buildings more hired government workers pensions etc etc.... Not paperwork Although that will keep most of them busy. This society has become so focused on all the wants and needs that it ignores the cost. As someone once said "you can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring that reality" We can not afford more big government programs And government hand outs. This economy does not have enough GDP to tax away to feed this beast. Bush was also a reckless spender. As I have said before, the rich guy down the street is not your enemy although with Obamas Sal Alinski tactics he is easy to demonize and divide. The real culprit comes down to our own government out of control spending policies and the federal reserve accommodation of this behavior. How do you think printing 40 billion dollars a month is going to effect your savings. With my experience and a third grade education I can tell you that inflation will be eating your back side away in no time. That is what has eroded the middle class and of course as you mentioned paying for tv, Internet, cell phones etc. check out the inflation charts over the last hundred years. coincidentally 1913 - 1914 the same time the federal reserve was created and actually this country got going with a withholding income tax system. Inflation before 1913 is hard to define unless you look at the price of gold but it was not much of a factor. Our own pressure on legislators to solve problems through government intervention have released the hounds of spending and political power. That my friend is the circle of life we have created. 1913 Federal Reserve -- will get you free money spend -- 1914 income tax withholding to pay the piper -- big government massive programs, military industrial complex, more government spending to solve social inequities -- 16 trillion in debt and no way to tax our way out of it. As far as the spending cuts that may happen next year or the year after, they are not cuts at all -- they are cuts to the rate of growth. If they project a rate of growth at 8 percent they will make it just 5 percent. What a sick joke. Enough..... Break the chains and reform these massive black hole programs before they destroy us.
#16
Hi "No Fraud"... I apologize for all the posts. Whenever I try sending something longer, it doesn't go through; if just goes "POOF!" and then I have to type it all over again.
So sorry to hear about your injury. Whatever it was, I hope it doesn't leave permanent scars; on your person OR your wallet!
#17
Like you, my husband and I lack health insurance and for the same reason. I got very frustrated and angry with Obama three years ago, when he took single payer "off the table". Worse yet, he did it before the discussion had even begun! I strongly believe a single-payer system is the only way out of this mess. Living just one illness or injury away from financial ruin is intolerable; I view it as a form of financial terrorism.
#18
Even if we could afford the ridiculous price tag on those premiums, I wouldn't pay it because it is a rip-off. Having been insured in the past, I vividly recall how crazy-making the system is. Frankly, I refuse to play the game. Being insured didn't improve our access to care that much anyway, with the deductibles and all... Even if you're insured, there's no guarantee you won't be bankrupted anyway, which makes it especially no-win. The system is so abusive. I just can't stomach the idea of anyone, other than me and my doctor, making medical decisions in my behalf; ESPECIALLY when that third party lacks medical training and isn't even a care provider!! Completely insane. They can take their premiums and shove 'em "where the sun don't shine"! In my view, mandatory, private for-profit health insurance is nothing more than government-sanctioned extortion.
#19
Having read your posts, I've identified you already as one who shares my democratic-socialist world view. Stalinism is simply irrelevant to me. Stalin was just a dictator; he had nothing remotely to do with socialism! It amazes me how so many boomers believe McCarthy's twisted version of that. Back in McCarthy's day, most of us were too young to even join the debate. Just goes to show the lasting impact of right-wing propaganda, designed to keep us all dumbed down and misinformed! Like you, I don't believe most people are greedy, jealous types. Certainly not on the liberal side of the fence! Conservatives are constantly projecting their own negative traits & behaviors on the rest of us.
For this country to claim status as a world leader while leading only in negatives like debt, incarceration and military size is PATHETIC. But there's a whole other discussion... - Aliceinwonderland
#20
Just as I thought, you democratic socialist would rather somebody else pay for your healthcare. Sooner rather than later you will run out of other people's money to spend. 62 million people now on Medicaid, wait until Obamacare kicks in and the states have to shoulder more people. Which states will go bankrupt first? My guess it will start with California and continue right through the Blue states.
#21
Oh GLOBAL! Go soak your head. - Aliceinwonderland
#22
Yep, it is a good thing I have just enough money to keep cold beer in the fridge cause it is going to be hard to live in the same country with you hard headed progressives.
#23
Awe...Don't fret Global, You can stop by my place and have a cold one any time. We always have plenty of beer and food. I have only one condition; you gotta lend a hand in my Vegetable and Herb garden...No one drinks or eats for free around my place. And if gardening isn't your thing no problem there is some painting that needs to be done, afence that needs some repair, and a leak on the porch. Amongst my circle of friends we all help each other out...Its the "old" ‘merican way...You scratch my back and I'll hand ya a beer! HA!!
Love,
No Fraud
#24
Well it is a good thing for you the end is near. Maybe We hard headed progressives will legalize euthanasia!!! That way when it gets to be to much for you to bare...
#25
You keep spouting the same right wing agenda rehtoric.
Three times I have explained to you how we could afford a Single Payer Healthcare System...Cut Military and Deffence spending in half, Close down 1/3 of our bases, and stop sending billions of dollars to Israel and other foreign countries every year. For christ sakes we proped up that tyrant Mubarek in Egypt for 40 years.
Come on....Why can't you grasp this? We don't need to raise taxes as much as we just need to redirect how we use them.
#26
So what is your Neoconservative Republican party's grand plan...Continue giving tax breaks to those so called "job creators"? For more than 3 decades - since Regan's Voodoo economics - they have been given tax breaks and have not increased the number of jobs here in the U.S.
Bottom line Uber Rich People do not create jobs...Consumer's Demand for goods does. And who are the largest number of consumers???THE WORKING MIDDLE CLASS! Which just so happens to be the ones flipping the bill to make up for where the rich are given tax breaks while jack offs like Bush run up the credit card.
WAKE UP YOU FUNNY LITTLE MAN!
#27
You may have forgotten No Fraud but I am a Ron Paul supporter which is about mirror opposite of your freedom destroying democratic socialist Obama drones. I don't know what tax myth you are listening to but who is flipping the bill is tax payers making over 112,000 per year are paying 70% of income taxes collected. That is the top 10%. Spending needs to be slashed way back on everything gradually. Jump start it with cutting militarism. And quit begging at the alter of big government which empowers your politicians with continued destructive fiscal policies. Wake up you fools. Get up, Put your boots on and feel the winds of life in your face instead of always whining about what the rich have and you don't.
#28
And let me remind you Mr Global...I am not a supporter of Obama; as I have made clear in several posts. I voted against both Romney and Obama...They are both evil war mongers and Corporate Opportunist whoes pockets are deep with corrup money from Wall St.
I do support Ron Paul's idea to dismantle our bloated Military Industrial Complex - as well as enforce States Rights - but that is it; after that he is no different than the rest of the Right Wing nut jobs.
The more disposable income one makes the more taxes they should pay. However you are not being honest when you say that the upper 10% pays 70% in income taxes.
I am in no way envious of how much money someone makes. I have a mixture of conservative, liberal, and progressive friends who make high 6 figures, as well as a few who are trust fund babies. None of them are paying 70% in income taxes; in fact several addmitted that they paid less than the average middle class worker. As well they too support a tax increase on the upper 2% and just as important a reform on what tax dollars are spent on, i.e. reduce deffence and military spending. More surprising two of my close friends are in the medical field and support Single Payer Healthcare simpley based of the idea of the common good for all.
What do you have against helping those that are less fortunate? Not everyone who receives aid from Government Assistance is a flunky or a welfare baby. In fact, during the last 6 years (back to the G.W.Bush era) most of the people receiving Food Stamps, Section 8 housing and medicare, had good paying job and begain loosing them and their homes before Obama took office.
#29
For your information Mister G, most progressives couldn't care less about the rich, or about being or getting rich. We just don't think we should have to pay their taxes or make sacrifices in their behalf, is all. A nice comfortable, secure life, free from scarcity and worry, would sure be nice. An appropriate balance between work and everything else hardly seems too much to ask, for the majority of us who actually EARN our living. And how about a few weeks' vacation each year, like the Germans and Italians enjoy? Got a problem with that?! Without such basics in life, "freedom" is just an abstraction. - Aliceinwonderland
#30
I concur, Ron Paul is great on issues pertaining to the military industrial complex and foreign policy. If he were as good on domestic & economic issues, he would have had my vote this election. BUT... Talk about economic illiteracy!! That guy takes the cake. -Aliceinwonderland
#31
Yes, and as you stated, you would give up everyone else's property rights and freedoms so you could be safe and secure. Utopia only exist in your wonderland. I think if more legislators adopted the Ron Paul economic philosophy this country would see a renaseance of economic prosperity and opportunities for all. Income taxes could be reduced for everyone, you would actually be able to keep more of your money and taxing the so called rich for revenge would not be necessary. And No Fraud, I meant to point out that the upper 10 percent of tax payers pay 70 percent of all the income taxes that the government collects, that is a very progressive tax burden. Go Rand Paul .....
#32
Stop putting words in my mouth, Global! I said nothing of the sort. And how about giving the Utopia crap a rest? If more of our elected officials adopted Ron Paul's idiotic economic strategies, we'd be living in Calcutta, USA where only the richest have roofs over their heads. - Aliceinwonderland
#33
My bad No Fraud, forgot you were at least kind enough not to vote for Obama.
#34
Has nothing to do with kindness. Has everything to do with my conscience. I am tired of the same political deck-O-cards being plaid and having to decide between two evils. This time was different for me. Both Obama and Romney are one in the same. They are Coporate Opportunist who work for Wall St. Neither of them support renegociating trade agreements to bring back jobs lost to other countries. Neither of them support prosecuting Wall St. fraud, war crimes, and illegal spying on U.S. citizens. Neither supports a single-payer-medicare for all healthcare system. Neither supports public financing of campaigns and a constitutional ammendment overruling Citizens United. Neither supports breaking up of the "to-big-to-fail" banks, and moving the federal reserve to the treasury Dept. Both support our Military Industrial Complex and increased deffense and military spending. Both support Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest 2%. The list goes on...Romney + Obama = Obamney.
I did campaigned for and voted for Rocky Anderson of the newly founded Justice Party. You may have heard that Democracy Now did a live broadcast of the Presidential debates and had Jill Stien of the green party and Rocky Anderson (justice party) on doing a real time debate right along with the Presidential one. If you like Ron Paul...you would love Rocky.
If you happened to be one of the many who didn't hear about Rocky Anderson...I recommend that you look him up @ voterocky.org
#35
Never leave a fallen comrade...
Global, and whom it may concern; If I said to you that everyone should be given three meals a day, shelter, healthcare and a college or trade school education, and that it should be based on selflessness, sacrafice, and service rather than greed, you'd say "That's socialism."
But that's the military. And yet the majority of conservative Republicans who think socialism is the ultimate evil admire the military.
You know in the military we have Universal Healthcare, and the military teaches you to never leave a fallen comrade behind...You take care of everyone. When I was at West Point back in 1991 I didn't really know what socialism was, but Iknew that West Point was different from how I had grown up. There is a sense in America that you're all alone; it's survival of the fittest. But at West Point they have a saying: "Cooperate and Graduate." Your classmates will help tutor you in whatever subjects you need. Every professor has to give you their phone # and alot 2 hrs a day to additional instruction for any student(s) who need it. You have a sense that people care about you and want you to advance. If someone fails a class because of not understanding the material, his or her fellow students are partly responsable, because they didn't aid a classmate who needed help. There is a sense of comraderie and solidarity. No one is trying to suceed by way of allowing another to fail.
I'm not saying that the military is a Utopia, far from it. Our military as an institution has a lot of things wrong with it, but it also has some admirable characteristics.
SO ANSWER THIS Global and anyone else; Why do you have such disdane for those less fortunate? Why are you against helping those fellow comrades (Americans) that need a helping hand?
If History has taught us anything it has taught us the evil of our selfish greedy ways...Time to learn the lesson and change our way of thinking. Life is not cheap; it is worth more than its weight in gold.
#36
I know this thread is getting a little long in the tooth, more to come another day but, I have no disdane for anyone that needs help, my objection is that too many people look to the almighty federal government to administer that help. As you said around your house your friends help out when help is needed, that is the spirit that we as a nation need to foster not the invisible hand of big government handing out checks from property they confiscated from others. The culture and psychological degradation of our people is what concerns me most for this country and my kids in the future. One more time for Alice-- You can ignore reality but you can not ignore the consequences for ignoring reality. And the reality is that the welfare state is becoming a generational phenomenon. More on Rocky Anderson later.
#37
Okay...I do enjoy the discussion and banter but I don't want to wear out my welcome.
I do agree that on a neighborhood/community level it is possable/easier to organize help; I just donated 13 bags of clothing and 10 bags of canned/dry food goods - that I collected from friends and family - to a local church that runs a soup kitchen and pantry for those in dire straights. However, on the issue of Healthcare, the high cost of medical treatment is more offten beyond the reach of ones neighborhood. Not that people don't try to help out with their dollars and time, but I don't consider a Universal Healthcare system to be "stealing of others property", I see it as good for all.
Again I have enjoyed the discussion and look forward to yours, Alice's, and others responses.
#38
No fraud, you are welcome anytime, we will just have to pick it up again on a more current thread, like this week.
#39
Global, I reject your interpretation of reality. And I too am done with this thread. - Aliceinwonderland
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Images of Thom
Thom & Louise at a "private audience" with His Holiness Pope John Paul II at his summer palace, Castle Gandolfo, Italy
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Through compelling personal stories, Hartmann presents a dramatic and deeply disturbing picture of humans as a profoundly troubled species. Hope lies in his inspiring vision of our enormous unrealized potential and his description of the path to its realization."
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"If you wonder why and when giant corporations got the power to reign supreme over us, here’s the story."
From Screwed:
"The powers that be are running roughshod over the powers that OUGHT to be. Hartmann tells us what went wrong — and what you and I can do to help set American right again."
There's nothing wrong with regulated Capitalism but the Laissez Faire Capitalism system that has grown out of the last 30 years has been the cause of a system on the verge of a revolution. Other country's instability, due to their trying to emulate the US Capitalist system led by the likes of Goldman Sachs, has led to the collapse of economies world wide.
How many merchants are now griping about how Walmart has taken away their business? Isn't Walmart just doing just what Capitalist Thumpers preach? Only bigger and better (from the Ayn Rand dogma)? Walmart has just beaten everyone else at their own game. How many of those smaller businesses are now b1tching about Walmart?
I went to Sears to buy some thermals and was shocked that they wanted $25.00 for a made-in-San-Salvador thermal top...I went to Walmart and found a thermal top for just over $6.00. I checked that brand that Sears sells on the Amazon website and many of the comments said that they often found sewing errors...ie: seams not sewed. The thermal at Walmart, while not the same brand, was very well made. Then I went to Target and found very nice thermals for $9.99. So, yes, keep on believing in the Laissez Faire Capitalist system...instead of an all-powerful government that regulates and tries to keep the wolves from eating everyone else up...we'll end up with a giant, megalithic, unitary corporation that will rule the world. And when that happens...they will switch from the cheapest prices to no-other-choice but to pay an arm-and-a-leg for bare necessities.