I need some help I cannot get into the chat room anymore I think I have the proper Java but I do not Know how to configure Can I get some instruction on how to do this and what Java do you need

The question of how we kill all the terrorists is the wrong question. Try this. How did we make and keep making terrorists? Are we so naive as to actually believe 'they hate us for our freedoms'? Understand that education of women will radically transform their entire social system which their men don't want any more than many people in our own country who resist acceptance of blacks having the vote. Our long term prospect of changing 'backward or hostile' societies is to have them to say, 'give me some of that'! Right now I don't know why many would wish to be like us. I don't go to France to eat at McDonald's or complain that they don't speak English.

IS THERE A SECRET PROGRAM TO "RE-EDUCATE" THE AMERICAN (AND WORLD) PUBLIC SO THAT THEY'LL ACCEPT FASCIST POLICE STATES? - Hi Tom, speaking of "RE-EDUCATION." Have you ever noticed that most TV CRIME SHOWS (especially on CBS) always show various "crime fighters" CASUALLY VIOLATING THE CIVIL RIGHTS of multiple suspects. The worst I've seen so far has been TOM SELLECK sneering at a suspect about them getting their "phone call" so that their "SLEAZY LAWYER" could protect their "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS." This is happening way too often to be a coincidence. Thanks.

The Christian response to turture by Rome was to be passive and not to respond in kind. Tens of thousands died, but their weak response gained them respect, amplified the evil of their torturers and brought them sympathy which eventually led to their victory. If the Christians had lowered themselves to the level of the Romans, they would have been squashed and forgotten.

Even if torture produces the desired results, in the long run it will corrupt, bring an avalanche of enemies and give aide and comfort to our enemies by giving them cover for their own evil actions.

Unjustifiable

Americans, I think have been and will remain targets no matter what the report said. I think most individuals knew or assumed the government was lying when it said it wasn't torturing. Was the torture cruel? Of course. When isn't torture cruel? Did it contribute to usefull intelligence? Perhaps. Did it say American lives? Maybe. But if it did save just one American's life, then it was worth it. If it produced any actionable information, then it was worth it. However, it should not be used indescriminately (like on someone who is actually working for us and got picked up in a sweep). Of course, what we're call torture or "enhanced interrorgation techniques" is nothing compared to the SS, Gestopo, or Japanesse during WWII, or the Soviets, North Koreans, Vietnamesse, or Chinese. Occupying the moral highground may make for good soundbites, but in the field, it may just get you killed.

I am an "ordinary" American and I knew Bush, Cheney, the CIA and their ilk were torturers, so it wasn't exactly secret. Maybe some of the gory details, but not the overall picture. I would be pleased as punch if every damn one of these cowards was subjected to the same torture techniques they inflicted on others.

"Rectal feeding"?! That's not feeding; the body isn't designed to absorb calories & nutrients through the wrong end. These guys are sick, sick, sick. - AIW

The idiots at Fox so called news are worried that releasing information about people in our government torturing captives that have been held indefinatly, without ever having a day in court, damaging the reputation of the USA? The USA already has a bad reputation all over the world. It's been common knowlage that the USA tortures prisoners that never have their day in court. It's known worldwide that the USA has been conducting drone strikes that kill innocent men women and children and sometimes miss the intended targets. Waving our flags and shouting "God Bless America, We're The Greatest Nation on Earth" may make us feel good about our country but it will do nothing about the way the people in the rest of the world see us. Many people in other countries see us as arrogant greedy bullies. Why? Because our policies allow us to sidestep human rights? Because our government panders to billionaires who worship money? Because we think we can go anywhere in the world and kill whoever we want to and don't care who gets in the way? We are becoming a pariah (outcast) state and soon the only countries that will want anything to do with us are the ones that we have manufacturing the goods we spend our money on. All of this can change but we have to find and elect the people who are willing to stand up and make the changes that will make us a better nation and better people. It's not often that a republican will publicly stand up against other republicans but John McCain did when he supported making public the documents about the USA's torture program. For this, I'm proud of John McCain.

Thom,

HOW do you expect ANYTHING to change in this Fascist Police State when you NEVER discuss the FACT that we DO NOT have a Representative Republic? If we had the representation granted voting citizens by our Contitution, we would have over SIX THOUSAND representatives in the House! And YEAH, we can do that with modern technology EASILY!

Fascism isn't coming to the USA; it is HERE!

There is no way in hell that we are going to get our government to do what we-the-people want UNLESS we can have and elected Representative for every 30,000 to 60,000 citizens, PERIOD!

You are always quoting the founding fathers and our Constitution, yet you NEVER mention that our vote is worth ONE SIXTEENTH what it was worth in 1800. WHY NOT!!!?

THAT is the KEY reason the corporations OWN OUR GOVERNMENT! Don't tell me it is "impractical" to have an electronic congress where we-the-people tell our 7,000 Reps what we DEMAND in no uncertain terms. The Pentagon has secure connections all over the world. A Congress can do the same thing and meet ELECTRONICALLY while they STAY in their districts where we-the-people can keep them from getting bought and paid for.

You KNOW that! Yet you pooh pooh the idea of having 7,000 or so Representatives in the House of Representitives and one third as many senators. You IGNORE the CRUCIAL (for the preservation of democracy against oligarchic elite corruption) fact that it would be really hard for corporations to buy that many elected politicians.

As long as we DO NOT have appropriate representation in our government, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that torture, war profiteering, dirty energy welfare queen give aways called subsides and police state privacy violations, brutality and racist murders will stop.

Things are the way they ARE because the people in our government REPRESENT the WILL of the olgarchic predators that WANT IT that way, PERIOD!

If you are still reading (grin), here are the details:

The issue is FASCISM. Our "Jews" just happen to be African Americans and the poor of all colors. But the Evil in Fascism is ALWAYS a growth industry and those pretending they will not be eaten alive by this predatory profit over people and planet fascism are just plain Wishful Thinking COWARDS.

We are in the throws of Inverted totalitarianism. Chris Hedges explains that in detail. I think you are familiar with that but if you want to refresh your mind, just Google it and Chris Hedges.

And YEP, it IS a police state but it is CLOAKED with the Color of LAW (see definition of Color of Law) with all the trappings (pure theater) of a representative republic.

Around the year 1800, the power of a (white, land owner) American citizen's vote was reasonable (if all the adult citizens had been allowed to vote). At that time a NEW Rep could be added to a state if the Congressional district exceeded 60,000 population. In 1918-19 the COUNT of reps was UNCONSTITUTIONALLY frozen.

You'll never get a lawyer to fight that, either. The historical record is quite accurate as to the unconstitutionality of that legislation. You probably know all about how the unconstitutional income tax was pushed on us. But the BIG BETRAYAL was the frozen rep count. This assured a fascist takeover because corporations would get MORE influence while the individual voter would get less. At present your vote is worth one SIXTEENTH of what it was in the year 1800! Representative Republic, my ARSE!

And if some learned counsel would pound the table about the "progressive reform" of electing senators during the same period (early 20th century) so state legislators couldn't be bought by big wig money bags types, then tell them that it was a FICTION.

Why? because it was ACCOMPANIED by freezing the rep count! What's that got to do with it? Tell said learned counsel to look up the word "senate". The senate is NOT, and never was, a democratic, representative or otherwise, of the PEOPLE; it is a representative of the wealthy ELITE Powers That BE.

It is BALANCED (at least in theory) by the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Remember it has the SAME power as the House (except it isn't supposed to be able to INITIATE legislation - like it unconstitutionally DID in 2008 with the bailout!) with one third less members when this country got started.

As the number of reps got greater and greater from a population increase, the elite influence increased on a senate with less and less members in relation to the exploding population of the states. I.e. LESS DEMOCRACY in an already undemocraric senate - concentration of POWER in fewer hands!

In order for the proper balance to have been preserved with the, admittedly more democratic process of electing senators instead of having state legislators "elect" them, they HAD TO keep the same ratio of senators to representatives! They did not do that! They pulled a fascist one-two punch (one-two-three if you count the Federal Reserve ripping the power to print money away from the gooberment).

Keeping the, already pro-elite senate at two per state made it EASIER to BUY THEM. Freezing the house count did the same thing.

I wrote an article explaining all that several years ago. Here it is.

I'm talking about the sound bite of all sound bites, "No taxation without representation". We can all agree that representation is essential in a representative form of government, right?

Yes, we are a republic and the founding fathers abhorred pure democracy. But they did write into the Constitution that for every 30,000 citizens, NO MORE THAN ONE representative would be elected to the House (but AT LEAST ONE per state). You can see this is dated stuff. The constitution needs to be CLARIFIED to reflect modern technology.

The constitutional clarification/amendment would be:

1) AT LEAST ONE representative for every 31,000 citizens.

2) The 'AT LEAST ONE representative per state' can be dropped because it is ridiculous and outdated to even consider a state with less than 30,000 citizens.

The corporatocracy would fight this tooth and nail because this amendment would make our House of Representatives a democratic organization for the first time EVER (in 1787 Native Americans, women and African Americans were excluded - In 1911 when they UNconstitutionally froze the rep count at 436, Native Americans, women and most African Americans could not vote).

Since 1911 we have been in a time warp where corporate power grew as our population grew. The fix was IN.

Now do the math. Assuming 2/3 of the population can vote, that means 200,000,000 votes. If you get one rep for every 31,000 voters, the House gets 6451 representatives.

Consider, for a moment, how your vote has been watered down through the years. The 65 reps back in 1787 represented about 2 million white men. In 1911 the 337 or so that voted to freeze the upper bound of the number at 436 represented 90 million mostly white men - NO WOMEN.

Now DAMNIT, PEOPLE! That was one of the most corrupt congresses we have ever had! That was THE Rockefeller congress! That was the Railroad baron congress! That was the congress that, in 1913, brought the federal reserve crooks into being!

We went from one rep for every 30,000 to 60,000 white men in 1787 to one rep for every 500,000 voters in 2010. Think about that. YOU and 15 other voters have the same power that ONE WHITE MAN had in 1787! And with the Citizens United Supreme treason, you are ACTUALLY getting one rep for every (assuming 10,000 public and private large corporation pacs) 22 rich corporations. THIS IS THE REALITY.

There is no valid argument for limiting the number of reps. NONE.

We want a representative republic. We don't have one. This is not a 'progressive' issue. This is about DEMOCRACY!

I wish to add that every single issue of importance to the people in the USA which has been ignored, disdained, ridiculed or trashed by the media and/or the government owes its' continued repression to our lack of representation in congress.

The single argument against it is very old. I cede the floor to Patrick Henry:

"But we are told that we need not fear; because those in power, being our representatives, will not abuse the powers we put in their hands. I am not well versed in history, but I will submit to your recollection, whether liberty has been destroyed most often by the licentiousness of the people, or by the tyranny of rulers.

I imagine, sir, you will find the balance on the side of tyranny. Happy will you be if you miss the fate of those nations, who, omitting to resist their oppressors, or negligently suffering their liberty to be wrested from them, have groaned under intolerable despotism!

Most of the human race are now in this deplorable condition; and those nations who have gone in search of grandeur, power, and splendor, have also fallen a sacrifice, and been the victims of their own folly. While they acquired those visionary blessings, they lost their freedom."

I imagine that Patrick Henry, who is famously quoted as saying he smelled a rat in Philadelphia (the constitutional convention), would have preferred one elected representative for much fewer voters than 30,000. He wanted to keep a sharp eye on the reps way back when. He would probably be outraged and leading a revolution today.

Today we have the technology for an electronic congress. This congress would not be the pampered tools for corporations we have now. Their numbers would make OUR voices stronger than corporate voices. They would be more approachable and more willing to listen to us with the 31,000 voters per district. We would HAVE A VOICE!

Our reps would rule for us.

Patrick Henry's rat was eaten by a Rockefeller T-Rex. We need to kill this dinosaur. The damned thing will kill us all and then start on it's own tail.

"People talk sometimes of a bestial cruelty, but that's a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as a man, so artistically cruel. The tiger only tears and gnaws, that's all he can do. He would never think of nailing people by the ears, even if he were able to do it."

Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

"I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness."

Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

"If you were to destroy in mankind the belief in immortality, not only love but every living force maintaining the life of the world would at once be dried up. Moreover, nothing then would be immoral; everything would be lawful, even cannibalism."

Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov

"We as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values… when machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered."

-- Martin Luther King, Jr. April 4, 1967

The wheels of "fascist progress" were turning fast and furious in those first 20 years of the 20th century. But we had Bernays to put lipstick on that fascist BOOT in our face. The media was instrumental in keeping the lipstick in place throughout the 20th century and this century (see 911 lock step dumb playing). The lipstick is coming off.

http://www.createaforum.com/gallery/renewablerevolution/3-211213180651.png

THE ABOVE SHOULD BE IN YOUR "SCREWED" SEGMENT DAILY!

Torture is not a partisian issue. Republicans, Democrats, and Independents are against torturing prisoners. Only the Klu Klux Klan and the Nazi Party are in favor of torture. President George W. Bush ordered his administration to torture captured prisoners, this was a violation of United States laws and International laws. America does not stand with George W. Bush when he order the torture of detainees. The recently released executive summary of the report shows that the CIA lied to Congress, lied to the president, and lied to the public about how it treated detainees. The methods used are consistent with any definition of what comprises torture. Any person who says this is not torture would object to such behavior if they or their loved one was the person being treated that way. There is nothing awesome about the way George W. Bush behaved, instead it was a war crime. George W. Bush and Richard Cheney should be held to trial on their actions.

No glen I think getting your head chopped off on video for your children to watch on you tube is worse then denying torture.