I tend to agree Thom US so called criminal justice system is a joke. Eric Holder seems weak and ineffective. Wealthy & well connected are above the law ! We are sick to death of our two tiered system. We have NO public servants Its we who serve them ! Great wages, perks, vacations, 'bribes on side' while they ignore what the people want..and vote as they please/ as lobbyists demand. People Must organize IF we hope to get our messages through .
Call write e mail often WH line M-F till 5 pm 202 456 1111 www.whitehouse.gov
Extraemail ~ So what? If he was using a residential unit for commercial purposes you warn, you fine, you don't arrest and jail. Maybe the guy was unaware that his cooking could be smelled by anyone else. Thom is trying to distinguish between nonviolent drug crimes and REAL CRIMES. There is no reason non violent drug crimes should carry the same weight as violent crimes. In fact, drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Personally I think they should open the door of every prison and release every non violent drug convict with a complete pardon regardless of what drug they possessed or sold. The idea that we treat people for possession and distribution of controlled substances the same way we treat murderers, robbers, rapists, child molesters, and kidnappers is absolutely irresponsible and ridiculous.
Hi Tom. I AGREE on your points on Jury Nullification, the failed War on Drugs, and excessive punishments for pot. HOWEVER, do not use Jacob Lavoro (19-year-old Austin, Texas man) as your example.
This kid was not simply making a few pot brownies. He was making Hashish Oil brownies, and was making dozens of squares for sole purpose of distribution and sales. He was selling brownies at $25 per square, and had a long written list of clients. He was reported to police when the smoke and fumes from cooking the Hashish Oil was going into his neighbor’s apartment units, and a pregnant woman became concerned for the health of her fetus. This kid and his attorney have been doing many interview shows to promote the idea that he may get “Life” for simply making some pot brownies for recreational use. The possible sentence is 5 years to Life. He will not get more than 5 years, and will probably get some probation and an ankle sensor. THIS 19 YEAR OLD KID IS A DRUG DEALER THAT GOT CAUGHT.
THANKS Thom Hartman! LOUD & CLEAR! What a waste of energy time money and HUMAN life.
Feed ALL children worldwide for ONE MILLION $$$ of each One Billion spent on WAR. FIGHTING costs WAY MORE than FEEDING !!
Get with the program folks ! Start this in your neighborhood!
Feed ALL children Educate ALL people to feed themselves and others
Our RIGHT is to establish ideal human habitat; our DUTY for 7 generations. ALL kept as PUBLIC BENEFIT controlled only by real HUMANS, on GAIA our living planet.
FOOD CEREMONIES generate PEACEFUL COMMUNICATION
Gather in fields: the congregation.
Plant seeds: the ceremony.
PRAY during the growing/watering.
Share WORLDWIDE: the communion.
Peace n Planting our true way of life.
99% feel the same ...... Feed ALL children Educate ALL people
Please BEE REAL -- get a hive going with somebody anywhere!
BEE ProACTIVE aka benefit the 7 generations in all you do!
PS MAKING IT HAPPEN LOCALLY in your neighborhood. Thought this local action peace plan might be at the heart of our prayers.... we could rent church kitchens and make wonderful BREAKFAST in YOUR POCKET cookies and donated organic milk for school children. Friday night we use the kitchen again to make WHOLE GRAIN PIZZA with ten vegetables and mushrooms. Salad bar too, all organic fresh!
NO MOVIE NIGHTS -- instead there are ten tables with crafts and skills mentors sitting there to help the YOUTH. A great fisherman, a basket maker, leather worker, food preservation teacher and other useful survival skills teachers /life guides.
“The rich are the most discriminated-against minority in the world. Openly or covertly, everybody hates the rich because, openly or covertly, everybody envies the rich. Me, I love the rich. Somebody has to love them. Sure, a lot o’ rich people are assholes, but believe me, a lot o’ poor people are assholes, too, and an asshole with money can at least pay for his own drinks.” ― Tom Robbins, Jitterbug Perfume
When my son was 6 years he was interviewed by a popular magazine. The question: What would you do if you had a million dollars Nicholas? His answer "Money is not my God!" Now, throughout history when humans are asked that same question, the response dictates the obvious; When money is your God, you will fail. The Heroes that started this country decided a differant response was the right way to go for all of our sake. What this country has become is the ages old answer, when money is your god you will fail. Every time! People have become narcasistic. Selfish. And Angry. Money is this countries god. And observe the result. The part of us that needs waking up is the reality that VERY few benefit from this tenet. And you know what else, when their 'jig is up' they will simply walk away and care not. Guns. Phones, It's always the same result, A few will make money then walk away. YOU AMERICANS ARE BEING DISTRACTED FOR ONE REASON ONLY to make a few rich. It's King & Queen time again!!! Benjamin Franklin would be ashamed.
Sure Matt, now that we have warped campaign finance laws it "just makes sense" to elect a billlionaire, Ross Perot or how about the Kochs. That's the logical progression from the laws as effectively that's what happens already. You think the privileged classes dictating policy will result in a fair system for everybody?
That the working penurious can't afford the luxury of philosophizing doesn't mean they would choose this system if they had a choice. That kind of thinking requires a certain amount of education - either from the schools or self teaching or other informal means - and a certain sense that they are able to think that way without futility, that what they think matters at all Anyway, don't be so sure they aren't thinking about what scam and sham capitalism or the prevailing system is. As someone who organized poor laborers and minnimum wage workers for nine years I can tell you they do.
There is in fact a great history of very massive, powerful movements by self educated, poor workers.
It has been found by sociobiologists (Wilson and Freeman) in the late '70s that the rich, being more sheltered from the forces of natural selection, are not, in fact, superior biologically to the poor but inferior to them. The poor live much more in environments where the stupid do not survive and in a very few generations outstrip the rich in evolutionary progress. Check my blog post at http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/mark-saulys/blog/2014/01/social-darwin...
If money is the root of all evil why do Democrats want to take it all from the Republicans. Wouldn't that make them evil. Funny I never thought of Oprah, Gates, Buffett, Clinton, Pelosi etc as evil. Huh.
Actually Kend, that is a misquote, originally it was "The love of money is the root of all evil". But Oprah, Gates, Buffet and the others can do with less also.
Tip of the iceberg. Many years ago a young woman was abducted from a gas station where she worked. A man was convicted of this crime on circumstantial evidence. All the locals were so sure he did it. She was never found. A juror was interviewed after the trial and asked how a conviction could have come to pass with such weak evidence. His answer? " I gotta live here when this is over."
Wilie, a jury convincting out of spite is not doing its job. However, considering how many small-minded people have served on juries, I'm sure this has happened many times. - AIW
Not sure on this one. If the jury is aware of the power they hold, a guilty person could be aquitted if the jury feels that the punishment might be too harsh and this person deserves a second chance. That second chance might be well deserved, and so justice is served. But, a jury could also be offended by a person's attitude or life style and convict, even if that person is inocent of that crime. The reasoning is, even if they might not have done this crime, they must be guilty of something. Convicting out of spite.
No and isn't it ironic that we must insure our cars, homes and even have health insurance but not guns! Also, my city forbids citizens to own a pitbull (dog) as a pet because they are TOO dangerous. However, the same home can own 1,5,10 or more guns and nobody cares. Homeowners can not get the same premiums as the person that lives next door if they have a pitbull but if they have a poodle like their neighboor but have enough guns to fight in Syria, well that's OK. What has happened to common sense? Dog bite versus the Sandyhook rampage or the latest "if I can't have have it then you can't" spoiled brat mentality do the math.................. Unless it is the new common core it doesn't add up.
Thom, I hate to be rude, but after all the intelligent, thought-provoking topics I've read in your column, I can't believe you're responsible for this drivel! Did someone pay you to discredit yourself publicly? Did they put LSD in your morning orange juice? Did they inoculate you with Rush Limbaugh's DNA?
Any statement that all < _____>s are <_____> is by definition false, superficial, divisive and counterproductive. This "essay" is one of those. There are people, rich AND poor, who have the ethics of a cuckoo and the empathy of a disease bacillus. There are people, rich AND poor, who are dedicated to leaving this world a better place than they found when they arrived.
How about canning this crap and substituting real support for everyone who behaves ethically and fairly, and exposing the crooks and cheats, on the basis of what they DO, regardless of their economic position, political party, gender, religion, occupation, hobbies or the color of their pubic hair? Is that too much of a challenge?
Unlike public schools, private schools get to cherry-pick their students. Between that and the serious shortage of funds public schools are now suffering (thanks to the stinginess of those deadbeats in Congress), is there any wonder Matt's private school gets better results than the public school down the street?!
Matt, the problem I have with so many of your posts is how they seem to endorse privatization, directly or indirectly. Like I keep repeating, privatization is all about exclusion. Some get in, some don't. In the context of educaton, this is absolutely unacceptable.
Privatization is the theft of the commons. It must be stopped at all costs. - Aliceinwonderland
Chuck, you never get any response to your proposals for higher taxes on the rich?! Well, let me break that statistic for you. I say, tax those bastards in the highest income brackets 80% or more. Then there's no incentive to "earn" billions anymore and... voila! No more billionaires! And then we can ALL just be "ordinary" citizens. Brilliant idea! - AIW
Aliceinwonderland ~ You make a very good point. I'm no lawyer, however, having been called for jury duty many times I can only say that if you were to "nullify" a trial the best way to do it would simply be to insist on a verdict of "innocent." No explanation whatsoever. When one juror does that the jury becomes hung. You don't have to give a complete explanation for your decision; and, depending on the instructions the Judge hands out, it is best that you don't. Deliberate defiance of a judge's directions is Contempt of Court. You're in big trouble. You get removed from the jury; and, the case goes on anyway.
However, if you just hold to your guns and insist you believe they are innocent without saying another word, there is nothing I can think of that the court can do. Remember, that's just an opinion, I'm no lawyer.
Here's a good resource on how to "nullify" a jury legally.
Craig Bush ~ You do make one very good point. Until we address the root causes of this problem, tactics like jury nullification are like trying to stop a plague of locusts with a fly swatter. The problem isn't resolved. I get it brother. Nevertheless, swatting at something is better than watching. Like the saying goes, "Every little bit helps."
DAM -- I disagree with both you and Matt. There is enough money now to pay for education and still waste it on wars. You guys must be reading that Rienhart-Rogoff economic report.
I wonder why I never get any response to high tax rates on the rich. When raygun lowered the top tax rate from 78% (or something like that) to 35% (or something like that), the high earners paid 2 to 3 times as much in taxes. Facts in economics seem to say if you have any linear thoughts about the economy you are probably wrong.
Chi Matt -- The 2 hour workday was stated to say in the extreme we could adapt to very large increases in productivity. I personally cannot think of how productivity could be that high in any field, let alone, education, nursing, policing, and firefighting. I think you are better equipped to imagine how productivity could be significantly increased in education. Remember one of the variables you get to play with is the availability of a lot more people due to increases in productivity in other fields.
Thank you Thom, for reminding us of our jury "nullification" powers! I remember reading about this some time ago, but couldn't recall there being a name for it.
But where in the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution is nullification even mentioned?! I've got a copy of the Constitution right in front of me, and here's how the Sixth is worded: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense." Unless I'm missing something, Thom, there is NO mention of the power of nullification in that amendment.
I'll confess, I'm disappointed; I'd opened my copy of the Constitution with high expectations (no pun intended).
Anyway next time I'm called on jury duty, I hope it's a pot case so that I can have the satisfaction of exercising this power. Nothing would gratify me more than enabling another victim of pot prohibition to walk free. - Aliceinwonderland
I tend to agree Thom US so called criminal justice system is a joke. Eric Holder seems weak and ineffective. Wealthy & well connected are above the law ! We are sick to death of our two tiered system. We have NO public servants Its we who serve them ! Great wages, perks, vacations, 'bribes on side' while they ignore what the people want..and vote as they please/ as lobbyists demand. People Must organize IF we hope to get our messages through .
Call write e mail often WH line M-F till 5 pm 202 456 1111 www.whitehouse.gov
www.congress.gov www.senate.gov Demand the President & Congress represent families, workers, women - NOT lobbyists .
AIW -- The fact that I never receive discussion on is "raise the top tax rate to 90% so the rich will pay less in taxes."
Extraemail ~ So what? If he was using a residential unit for commercial purposes you warn, you fine, you don't arrest and jail. Maybe the guy was unaware that his cooking could be smelled by anyone else. Thom is trying to distinguish between nonviolent drug crimes and REAL CRIMES. There is no reason non violent drug crimes should carry the same weight as violent crimes. In fact, drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Personally I think they should open the door of every prison and release every non violent drug convict with a complete pardon regardless of what drug they possessed or sold. The idea that we treat people for possession and distribution of controlled substances the same way we treat murderers, robbers, rapists, child molesters, and kidnappers is absolutely irresponsible and ridiculous.
Hi Tom. I AGREE on your points on Jury Nullification, the failed War on Drugs, and excessive punishments for pot. HOWEVER, do not use Jacob Lavoro (19-year-old Austin, Texas man) as your example.
This kid was not simply making a few pot brownies. He was making Hashish Oil brownies, and was making dozens of squares for sole purpose of distribution and sales. He was selling brownies at $25 per square, and had a long written list of clients. He was reported to police when the smoke and fumes from cooking the Hashish Oil was going into his neighbor’s apartment units, and a pregnant woman became concerned for the health of her fetus. This kid and his attorney have been doing many interview shows to promote the idea that he may get “Life” for simply making some pot brownies for recreational use. The possible sentence is 5 years to Life. He will not get more than 5 years, and will probably get some probation and an ankle sensor. THIS 19 YEAR OLD KID IS A DRUG DEALER THAT GOT CAUGHT.
THANKS Thom Hartman! LOUD & CLEAR! What a waste of energy time money and HUMAN life.
Feed ALL children worldwide for ONE MILLION $$$ of each One Billion spent on WAR. FIGHTING costs WAY MORE than FEEDING !!
Get with the program folks ! Start this in your neighborhood!
Feed ALL children Educate ALL people to feed themselves and others
Our RIGHT is to establish ideal human habitat; our DUTY for 7 generations. ALL kept as PUBLIC BENEFIT controlled only by real HUMANS, on GAIA our living planet.
FOOD CEREMONIES generate PEACEFUL COMMUNICATION
Gather in fields: the congregation.
Plant seeds: the ceremony.
PRAY during the growing/watering.
Share WORLDWIDE: the communion.
Peace n Planting our true way of life.
99% feel the same ...... Feed ALL children Educate ALL people
Please BEE REAL -- get a hive going with somebody anywhere!
BEE ProACTIVE aka benefit the 7 generations in all you do!
PS MAKING IT HAPPEN LOCALLY in your neighborhood. Thought this local action peace plan might be at the heart of our prayers.... we could rent church kitchens and make wonderful BREAKFAST in YOUR POCKET cookies and donated organic milk for school children. Friday night we use the kitchen again to make WHOLE GRAIN PIZZA with ten vegetables and mushrooms. Salad bar too, all organic fresh!
NO MOVIE NIGHTS -- instead there are ten tables with crafts and skills mentors sitting there to help the YOUTH. A great fisherman, a basket maker, leather worker, food preservation teacher and other useful survival skills teachers /life guides.
:)
Smile when you read this:))
“The rich are the most discriminated-against minority in the world. Openly or covertly, everybody hates the rich because, openly or covertly, everybody envies the rich. Me, I love the rich. Somebody has to love them. Sure, a lot o’ rich people are assholes, but believe me, a lot o’ poor people are assholes, too, and an asshole with money can at least pay for his own drinks.”
― Tom Robbins, Jitterbug Perfume
When my son was 6 years he was interviewed by a popular magazine. The question: What would you do if you had a million dollars Nicholas? His answer "Money is not my God!" Now, throughout history when humans are asked that same question, the response dictates the obvious; When money is your God, you will fail. The Heroes that started this country decided a differant response was the right way to go for all of our sake. What this country has become is the ages old answer, when money is your god you will fail. Every time! People have become narcasistic. Selfish. And Angry. Money is this countries god. And observe the result. The part of us that needs waking up is the reality that VERY few benefit from this tenet. And you know what else, when their 'jig is up' they will simply walk away and care not. Guns. Phones, It's always the same result, A few will make money then walk away. YOU AMERICANS ARE BEING DISTRACTED FOR ONE REASON ONLY to make a few rich. It's King & Queen time again!!! Benjamin Franklin would be ashamed.
Sure Matt, now that we have warped campaign finance laws it "just makes sense" to elect a billlionaire, Ross Perot or how about the Kochs. That's the logical progression from the laws as effectively that's what happens already. You think the privileged classes dictating policy will result in a fair system for everybody?
That the working penurious can't afford the luxury of philosophizing doesn't mean they would choose this system if they had a choice. That kind of thinking requires a certain amount of education - either from the schools or self teaching or other informal means - and a certain sense that they are able to think that way without futility, that what they think matters at all Anyway, don't be so sure they aren't thinking about what scam and sham capitalism or the prevailing system is. As someone who organized poor laborers and minnimum wage workers for nine years I can tell you they do.
There is in fact a great history of very massive, powerful movements by self educated, poor workers.
It has been found by sociobiologists (Wilson and Freeman) in the late '70s that the rich, being more sheltered from the forces of natural selection, are not, in fact, superior biologically to the poor but inferior to them. The poor live much more in environments where the stupid do not survive and in a very few generations outstrip the rich in evolutionary progress. Check my blog post at http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/mark-saulys/blog/2014/01/social-darwin...
All ethics are situational and a single, bourgeuois code of ethics for everybody is fallacious.
Actually Kend, that is a misquote, originally it was "The love of money is the root of all evil". But Oprah, Gates, Buffet and the others can do with less also.
Tip of the iceberg. Many years ago a young woman was abducted from a gas station where she worked. A man was convicted of this crime on circumstantial evidence. All the locals were so sure he did it. She was never found. A juror was interviewed after the trial and asked how a conviction could have come to pass with such weak evidence. His answer? " I gotta live here when this is over."
Wilie, a jury convincting out of spite is not doing its job. However, considering how many small-minded people have served on juries, I'm sure this has happened many times. - AIW
Not sure on this one. If the jury is aware of the power they hold, a guilty person could be aquitted if the jury feels that the punishment might be too harsh and this person deserves a second chance. That second chance might be well deserved, and so justice is served. But, a jury could also be offended by a person's attitude or life style and convict, even if that person is inocent of that crime. The reasoning is, even if they might not have done this crime, they must be guilty of something. Convicting out of spite.
No and isn't it ironic that we must insure our cars, homes and even have health insurance but not guns! Also, my city forbids citizens to own a pitbull (dog) as a pet because they are TOO dangerous. However, the same home can own 1,5,10 or more guns and nobody cares. Homeowners can not get the same premiums as the person that lives next door if they have a pitbull but if they have a poodle like their neighboor but have enough guns to fight in Syria, well that's OK. What has happened to common sense? Dog bite versus the Sandyhook rampage or the latest "if I can't have have it then you can't" spoiled brat mentality do the math.................. Unless it is the new common core it doesn't add up.
K.C., Take a deep breath and read posts #43, #52 & #53.
Thom, I hate to be rude, but after all the intelligent, thought-provoking topics I've read in your column, I can't believe you're responsible for this drivel! Did someone pay you to discredit yourself publicly? Did they put LSD in your morning orange juice? Did they inoculate you with Rush Limbaugh's DNA?
Any statement that all < _____>s are <_____> is by definition false, superficial, divisive and counterproductive. This "essay" is one of those. There are people, rich AND poor, who have the ethics of a cuckoo and the empathy of a disease bacillus. There are people, rich AND poor, who are dedicated to leaving this world a better place than they found when they arrived.
How about canning this crap and substituting real support for everyone who behaves ethically and fairly, and exposing the crooks and cheats, on the basis of what they DO, regardless of their economic position, political party, gender, religion, occupation, hobbies or the color of their pubic hair? Is that too much of a challenge?
I hope you recover soon.
best
kcr
Unlike public schools, private schools get to cherry-pick their students. Between that and the serious shortage of funds public schools are now suffering (thanks to the stinginess of those deadbeats in Congress), is there any wonder Matt's private school gets better results than the public school down the street?!
Matt, the problem I have with so many of your posts is how they seem to endorse privatization, directly or indirectly. Like I keep repeating, privatization is all about exclusion. Some get in, some don't. In the context of educaton, this is absolutely unacceptable.
Privatization is the theft of the commons. It must be stopped at all costs. - Aliceinwonderland
Chuck, you never get any response to your proposals for higher taxes on the rich?! Well, let me break that statistic for you. I say, tax those bastards in the highest income brackets 80% or more. Then there's no incentive to "earn" billions anymore and... voila! No more billionaires! And then we can ALL just be "ordinary" citizens. Brilliant idea! - AIW
Aliceinwonderland ~ You make a very good point. I'm no lawyer, however, having been called for jury duty many times I can only say that if you were to "nullify" a trial the best way to do it would simply be to insist on a verdict of "innocent." No explanation whatsoever. When one juror does that the jury becomes hung. You don't have to give a complete explanation for your decision; and, depending on the instructions the Judge hands out, it is best that you don't. Deliberate defiance of a judge's directions is Contempt of Court. You're in big trouble. You get removed from the jury; and, the case goes on anyway.
However, if you just hold to your guns and insist you believe they are innocent without saying another word, there is nothing I can think of that the court can do. Remember, that's just an opinion, I'm no lawyer.
Here's a good resource on how to "nullify" a jury legally.
HOW DO I NULLIFY?
Craig Bush ~ You do make one very good point. Until we address the root causes of this problem, tactics like jury nullification are like trying to stop a plague of locusts with a fly swatter. The problem isn't resolved. I get it brother. Nevertheless, swatting at something is better than watching. Like the saying goes, "Every little bit helps."
DAM -- I disagree with both you and Matt. There is enough money now to pay for education and still waste it on wars. You guys must be reading that Rienhart-Rogoff economic report.
I wonder why I never get any response to high tax rates on the rich. When raygun lowered the top tax rate from 78% (or something like that) to 35% (or something like that), the high earners paid 2 to 3 times as much in taxes. Facts in economics seem to say if you have any linear thoughts about the economy you are probably wrong.
Chi Matt -- The 2 hour workday was stated to say in the extreme we could adapt to very large increases in productivity. I personally cannot think of how productivity could be that high in any field, let alone, education, nursing, policing, and firefighting. I think you are better equipped to imagine how productivity could be significantly increased in education. Remember one of the variables you get to play with is the availability of a lot more people due to increases in productivity in other fields.
Thank you Thom, for reminding us of our jury "nullification" powers! I remember reading about this some time ago, but couldn't recall there being a name for it.
But where in the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution is nullification even mentioned?! I've got a copy of the Constitution right in front of me, and here's how the Sixth is worded: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense." Unless I'm missing something, Thom, there is NO mention of the power of nullification in that amendment.
I'll confess, I'm disappointed; I'd opened my copy of the Constitution with high expectations (no pun intended).
Anyway next time I'm called on jury duty, I hope it's a pot case so that I can have the satisfaction of exercising this power. Nothing would gratify me more than enabling another victim of pot prohibition to walk free. - Aliceinwonderland