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chuck so does welfare end after five years? I find that hard to believe. So what do they do? So why is it that every one on the blog blames the Rep. for the poor having it so bad. Here in Canada you don't have to work a day in your life And you have a home, food, healthcare, education and if you live in the province of BC. You even get free drugs. I should be careful what I say there is probaly a huge line up at the border. The down side is we have taxes as high as some of the people on welfare.
In Bill McKibben's book "Eaarth" he says that once we pass 350 ppb of carbon in the atmosphere, the climate has/will change. I think we're at 400 or 425. The gist of the book is that we're there we need to learn how to live with it, now and for the future generations. I think we can, as long as the economy continues to move along. The real problem is the 1% or however you wan't to define theforces that do not want a World economy based on renewable, efficicient power. We have lost so much time with Reaganomics, since the time Pres. Carter proposed putting photovoltaics on 20 million roofs back in the 70s!!! Can you imagine a second Carter term? Then we get the SCOTUS appointing GWB to the Presidency. What would a Gore Administration have done? We need a real climate revolution at the ballot box the next 2 cycles if this Country and the World is really going to face this problem head on. I have not lost hope, but do get tired of the up hill slog.
It is much harder for kids on a farm to go out get into trouble at an earlier age...fewer adverse influences as there would be in a town or city. Of course, when they get into their teens and start driving they can veer away from parental guidance. In towns or cities you don't even need a car to run into many bad influences. And, people who grow up on the farm often inherits the farm when their parents die.
chuckle8 ~ I assure you I've put a lot of very deep thought into this problem. It is industrialization that created the nuclear family and it is the nuclear family through with these problems fester. The main reason is because of the family element known as social cohesion. In agricultural families the bonds the members share are mutually dependent and long term. It is the exact opposite in industrial nuclear families.It is In these smaller sized families that members actually repel each other. Children are considered property and expected to become self sufficient as soon as possible and leave the family unit. Agricultural families are the exact opposite. Members rely on each other; and in turn, share responsibility, respect, and self worth. Members are expected to contribute, are appreciated, and the unit is strongest if members stay with it for the long term. Economic disparity has little to do with their characteristics. Even extended families who have nothing still have the strength of their bonds that not only overcome all the industrialized problems that I and Wendalore speak, but make such problems seem impossible to comprehend for most members; and, I have personally observed the evidence of this in both societies; not only in America, but in Mexico as well.
PS I'm not using Wikipedia to prove anything. I am only using the website to explain the definition of the terms Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft. Once understood these definitions can be applied to what is observable in the real world; and then, no further proof is necessary.
chuckle8: "a brain can operate better if it believes in god".
Really? Yeah, right, and "things go better with coke"! And for some people that may be true..but I prefer RootBeer, myself. Sorry, I'm not up for being sold on any religious beliefs.
And, I'm sure you are not up for reading any of the books I mentioned, either. I have read, over the years, a number of books on religion. And I can sure detect the ones that try to proselytize people into the religious cult systems of the authors. And yes, Christianity is a religious cult that just got bigger.
And no..I was not "searching" (that's what religious people try to say..searching..as if I will one day find that their beliefs were the true ones...ha!).
I have always been Atheist, even as a young child...much to the chagrin of my mother...my father was just politically and religiously neutral....a pragmatist. He was in a public position where he tried not to tick off anyone. And my interest in reading about religion and religion's history was more from a standpoint of wondering why people would believe in such nonsense. Of course, I realize that there are many religious people who believe that what I believe is nonsense. So it goes.....
I read something pretty interesting lately on Wikipedia....about the Baghwan Shree Rajneesh...originally Chandra Mohan Jain. He also took the name Acharya Rajneesh and then finally just...Osho. Very interesting how charismatic people can entrap other people's minds and take over their will...of course... there are obviously a lot of people who are dumb enough to be taken in by people like this. And, some of those dummies were really not so dumb..some, very intelligent..some not so poor...in fact, wealthy...his followers bought him something like 90 Rolls Royce cars and they wanted to buy him 365, one for each day of the year. How many people lost their life's savings for this scoundrel? At least they didn't lose their lives like the followers of Jim Jones. Just don't drink the cool-aid!!!
These scoundrels start up these "feel good" organizations, write books, have seminars, and essentially, eventually, talk their victims out of their life's savings. Although, I thought some of his anti-establishment ideas were really admirable; but, taking advantage of people like that was not. I think he was really an atheist who took advantage of a lot of vulnerable people.
I know that a lot of people, disenchanted with western religion (I certainly don't blame them) fall for the mysterious oriental religions which are even weirder than western religions. And even Jesus (if he even existed) may have gotten oriental ideas from when he went to Egypt to study..according to some things I read...but again...Jesus may have just been a myth.
And they get taken just as much, or even more so, by western religions. As far as I am concerned all religions are nonsense...there is no good reason to believe in any of that religious or mystical stuff. People are so willing to be brain washed by hocus-pocus nonsense.
I have heard of wealthy entrepreneurs, who have sold their companies, I suppose, in order to get out of the rat race of making more and more money and just "dropping out" of the main-stream business world, perhaps going all mystical, peace and love, and starting their own non-profit organizations to serve humanity, perhaps writing books, blogging. I know that certain tragedies in life can shock one out of one's current path and put them on another...sometimes for the better...sometimes not.
DAnneMarc -- I thought using Wikipedia to prove anything was equivalent to using Hitler. In any case, you should watch the following TED presentation.
http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson
It seems a more common cause of all the problems of which you and Wendalore speak, is wealth/income inequality. Of course, such inequality is heavily correlated to overpopulation. However, I think R. Wilkinson has examples of overpopulation with wealth inequality that do not suffer those problems.
Also, solving the wealth inequality problem seems more acceptable than solving the overpopulation problem.
Kend -- It is not that way down here. Ironically, with regards to other statements in this blog, Clinton ended "Welfare as we know it". Before Clinton is was probably like the Canadian plan. Clinton said welfare should end after 5 years. Clinton supported the Walmart Business Model. That is, he thought the way to fight dependency on welfare was to encourage corps to hire people at very low wages. The govt would make up the difference with food stamps.
BMetclfe -- I hope you realize the reason we cannot spend money on all those good things you mention is because it will make that black man in the white house look good. That is the only reason. If you think it has anything to do with our debt please read about the Reinhart-Rogoff report used by the repugs.
Didn't I hear somewhere that hope is the last thing to go.
Mark S -- I appreciate the light heartedness. Something I need whenever possible. The economic structure of 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's has a proven record of building the greatest economy the world has ever known. Why would we want to try co-ops, when all we need is a top tax rate of 96%, reasonable tariffs, enforcement of the anti-trust laws, no waivers for the Buy American Act of 1936, repeal of Taft Hartly Act, repeal of the law to allow pensions to be attacked under bankruptcy, etc. My real question is there any track record for the effect that co-ops have on a country's economy?
Palin -- Based on the titles, none of those books seem to cover the same topic as "Why God Won't Go Away". I mostly want you to read that book so you can tell me what it says. My best interpretation of what it says is that a brain can operate better if it believes in god.
Aliceinwonderland: I agree that they are very similar. One could say that "Anthropomorphic terms are coined by anthropocentrists". But then, I'm sure that there are other linguistic perfectionists that could pick that sentence apart as well. Of course, I suppose we could just stick to non sesquipedalian words. It would sure save on typing.
Palin, drugs like cancer do not discriminate. They don't care how old, what color, male/female etc. they both suck. Kitty avatar? I thought that was you. LOL. No it was the Clinton thing. I am going to assume he was just tired, some of there days can be very long. But the thought someone is controlling him is scary. then again the guy was stupid enough to take advantage of a young intern and then lie about. Maybe he was high all the time. No couldn't be. He didn't inhale.
I will never understand what Americans seen in the guy. He didn't do anything in eight years. Maybe that was a good thing.
Palin, I checked out my laptop dictionary's definition of "anthropomorphism" again... Upon re-examination, I must say that whatever differences existing between meanings of these words are pretty trivial. I can hardly tell 'em apart; they're both from the same mentality anyway. - AIW
John Pranke: Makes sense to me...that the US may be going through an economic collapse...or will very shortly. The fact that oil rich countries want to get off of the $US standard. When the $US loses it's influence, it will be all those other countries that the US has shat on that will sanction the US. The US could be a pariah that has no teeth.(that's a pun on piranha)
Nazi Germany didn't last very long either. But, with the US, it wouldn't even take a world war to bring their sorry arrogant asses down...although they may try to instigate one...as it seems they are trying to do in Ukraine.
Aliceinwonderland: You shortened the definition of anthropomorphism. You said only: "human characteristics".
The definition is more like "human characteristics attributed to non-human things". And that is what is done when people attach a human term, like "mother", to a non human term, like "nature".
"Anthropomorphism, or personification, is attribution of human form or other characteristics to anything other than a human being. Examples include depicting deities with human form and ascribing human emotions or motives to forces of nature, such as hurricanes or earthquakes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
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"Anthropocentrism ...is the belief that human beings are the central or most significant species on the planet (in the sense that they are considered to have a moral status or value higher than that of other animals), or the assessment of reality through an exclusively human perspective."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocentrism
Loren- for posterity's sake if nothing else, I just want you to know, I've occasionally been annoyed by Thom Hartmann's deference to President Obomba. It bugs me. - AIW
Wow Marc, Fruitvale Blvd sounds so familiar!
Marc, could you check out post #74 of the "Hope Dies Last" thread? (March 26) I'd really appreciate your thoughts on that. Kinda freaks me out. - AIW
Amazing thread, as always (that's why I always check back even after the thread has presumably died).
Though I often disagree with Mr. Hartmann's shamefully pro-Obama politics, I just as often find myself grateful to him for this outstanding website and the discussions it fosters.
Aliceinwonderland ~ Thanks you so much for that correction. "Davie" not "Davies" The least one can do is spell their hero's name right.
Palindromedary ~ Thanks so much for all those photos and links. It is amazing how such a tough man can embrace the smallest of us. He certainly was supposed to be a man of the people.
By the way, I searched that old Oakland database and found a photo of Fruitvale Blvd. I lived there for over 10 years and can say it doesn't look at all the same. No more railroad track down the middle. I can safely say the street looks considerably more beautiful today than it did back then. Thanks again for the trip down nostalgia lane.
John P, that kind of talk scares me. I'd much rather argue about "anthropomorphism" versus "anthropocentrism", and counter Palin's nitpicking about what is (or isn't) sexist language. - AIW
Palindromedary ~ Surely you mean "some people believe otherwise..." At least most of the people I know don't buy that 911 terrorist nonsense anymore. Most either outright believe that the Bush administration was behind the whole thing; or, it was a secret black op by one of our secret branches of government. Considering how much Bush himself lied, aided and abetted the entire crime--from whisking off the Bin Laden family out of the country during a no fly order, to lying about seeing the attack on TV--in my opinion anyone who still believes we were attacked by surprise from the outside is a good candidate to buy a bridge I'd like to sell. It comes at a great price with the standard feature of being imaginary and invisible.
Absolutely true and well said! That statement also has the advantage of explaining all this nonsense. We have a government that is basically fascism on steroids.
DAnneMarc: Here's a photo of the Buckaroo along with the cast of The Little Rascals.
http://cdn.calisphere.org/data/13030/7g/kt1z09q77g/files/kt1z09q77g-d3e7...
The day Jack London sailed from the foot of Broadway for his South Pacific adventure aboard the "Snark" [picture].
http://cdn.calisphere.org/data/13030/13/kt8z09r113/files/kt8z09r113-d3e3...
Mark Twain at Piedmont White Sulphur Springs, Oakland Calif. 1867
http://cdn.calisphere.org/data/13030/57/kt209nd057/files/kt209nd057-d3e3...
http://oac.cdlib.org/items/ark:/13030/kt5b69q5bc
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/26934722?q=Jackes&l-decade=192&c=map&versio...
Kend: What was scary? That filthy rich people use and abuse drugs or that video on Clinton or my kitty avatar? Did you watch the first two minutes on that video? Weird, huh?
Clinton sure looked like he was on something or hypnotized or something. It's like he was in a daze. And then the part where Larry King interviewed Clinton and what they said and how they said it. Something very fishy about that!
The rest of the video was pretty scarey too! Although, it was kind of cheesy flashing that image of a death scull.
I am late to the conversation about your interview with Prof. McPherson. He is currently on the Mike Nowak Show on WCPT, Sunday, March 30. It sounds to me that his hypothesis on the coming extinction of humans will initially be triggerd by an economic collapse starting in the USA. It sounds realistic to me that a loss of an economic system could cause a shutdown of infrastructure that delivers things like water food and sanitation. If that were to happen things would go down hill for the majority pretty darn fast. Would people pull together or would society turn savage? I think a combination of both.