Hope Dies Last
By Thom Hartmann A...
Back in 2003, a few years before he died, Studs Terkel was on my show and made this comment about “hope dying last”: “Without hope - what’s the alternative to it? It’s despair. And despair means your head in the oven. Hope is what made this country be what it is. It was hope that made the abolitionists fight slavery, you see, against terrible odds…. I picked up that title [of my book] from a Mexican farmworker, her name was Jesse De La Cruz…She said when times are bleak and bewildering we have saying in Spanish…it means ‘hope dies last.’”
As Terkel later pointed out, it's useful to face reality, and then go from there without despair. In some ways it’s like a cancer diagnoses: most people handle tough news better than they think they will, and everybody should have the right to know what reality truly is. This brings us to the discussion around the realities of climate change.
Last week on my radio show, I had Guy McPherson on as a guest, and he had some terrifying things to say about the future of the planet. He said we are experiencing such a rapidly warming planet that it was difficult for him to imagine a habitat for human beings in the not too distant future. McPherson went on to say that it’s over, that humanity as a species will largely die out, probably within our lifetimes. His message is that it’s too late to do anything about it, so we should do everything we can now to make life better before it all ends.
On the other hand, Michael Mann, the famous climate scientist who came up with the “hockey stick” graph to show how carbon dioxide has been exploding as the result of industrial activity, says there’s still time to do something to stop the climate freight train heading toward us. During an appearance on my TV show earlier this week, he said that we have about two decades before things really start to hit the fan.
This debate – how long do we have before it’s too late to really do anything? – is raging in the background of the scientific community right now. It needs more public discussion. We need to prepare ourselves for the worst.
Think of it this way. An old and very dear friend of mine died a few months ago of cancer, and made the mistake of never believing seriously that his end was coming, and thus went out basically screaming, "No!!" It wasn't pretty; he was so angry his wife had to have him taken out to hospice. On the other hand, my dad, who died of the same type of cancer, was ready for it, embraced it, and died at home surrounded by family. While the very end was rough, he had a pretty good last year experiencing life, family, and love while waiting for the cancer to take him down.
I don't think that all the tipping points Guy brings up are yet irreversible, and I believe there's still a lot we can do to save the planet. I agree more with Michael Mann that we still have some time to fix things. But it's still, as Mann points out, going to be damn hard to get the political will going worldwide or even here in the United States. And even using Mann's conservative numbers, we'll be at Guy's point of no return in three decades or less.
Motivation strategies must contain two parts: "moving away from pain" and "moving towards pleasure." The former (touching a stove and jerking back) provokes a quick response, but isn't long lasting. The latter is very long lasting (setting goals and working toward them through your life is a good example), but provokes a much slower and gentler response.
The most effective motivation strategies start with pain and then move to pleasure.
It’s time for us to acknowledge the painful reality that we’ve already severely damaged our planet in ways that could, just possibly, and almost certainly if we do nothing, mean the end of humanity or, at the very least, human civilization. From that starting point, as something that we want to work as hard as we can to avoid, we must then envision a new and better world that's not based on carbon as an energy source, and put into place real-world ways to get there quickly, ways that will also improve the quality of life on our planet.
As Studs Terkel said, “hope dies last.” We're all working on it in our own ways; if we all toss in our efforts and push our politicians hard, we'll get there.
Comments
#2
Nukes, comets, asteroids, super volcanoes...almost immediate annihilation. Of course we can prevent Nukes but it doesn't look like the US is willing to play nice....they are risking a confrontation that could wipe out most of the life in the world.
Global Warming is the one thing that most of us here will believe science instead of the ignorance propagated by the ones who are denying Global Warming. Yay science! Boo ignorance!
Of course, science created nukes at the instigation and funding of politicians; but, it was the scientists who desperately tried to convince the politicians from actually using them as a weapon. For the most part science has improved the quality of life..yet some people still just don't get it.
#3
I posted a claim a week or so before the program had Mr. McPherson's comments about our eminent demise as a specie. My reasoning was based on an appreciation of non-linear systems which feature the concept of 'tipping points.' I still think we have passed the point where we had opportunity to reverse the process of global warming for the reasons I stated earlier. However, your position that we 'get it in gear' is the proper course despite the inevitable, effective opposition of the oligarchs. If we go down, let it be with dignity though there be none left to remember.
#4
I'd say that the so-called "chemtrails" are a big polluter of our atmosphere...for sure...those jet engines have to burn fossil fuel to make them go. But most of those contrails are water vapor. Clouds are water vapor. Contrails look just like clouds except they are lines in the sky rather than amorphous blobs. Stare at those zig-zagging contrails long enough and you might start imagining seeing all kinds of things. The reason they zig-zag is because all those many jets are going different places and have different routes. Nothing mysterious about that, is there?
These many thousands of civilian jet-liners, military jets, and NASA rockets are major fossil fuel polluters. And that is certainly going to kill some of us over a long term. And eventually kill most of us over an even longer term through Global Warming. I have long heard of the "chemtrail" accusations but I don't necessarily believe it.
Whether there is anything conspiratorially significant in anything else they may contain is not very convincing to me. If the ruling elite wanted to kill off millions of people all they would have to do is starve them and withhold medical health care. They can starve them and withhold medical healthcare by making these things far too expensive (as in rising supermarket prices or exorbitant health care insurance rates...or withhold necessary diagnostic tests to catch early preventable cases of cancer). And besides, you don't see any of the uber-wealthy people of the ruling elite going around wearing haz-mat suits or masks do you? Of course, I suppose if you believe that the lizard people are immune to these "chemtrails" and that they are the ruling elite trying to kill everyone else off then I wonder who they (the lizard people) expects to mow their lawns or trim there trees for them. They surely won't do that menial labor themselves. ;-}
I used to listen to the Art Bell show...now Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. And I used to read Jeff Rense web site stories. Talk about conspiracy theories gone wild!!! Whew!
I think that the ruling elite are the capitalist pig parasites who are at the end of capitalism as Marx predicted where they own just about everything there is to own. And they are still trying to squeeze out that last drop before they kill the host. The parasite will also die when there is no host to feed upon. And they'll die suffocating in their own excretions.
#5
Again, same tired, old response. Do some conscious research. Let's let Thom have Freeman and Scott on and open up the conversation.
#6
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! ;-}
#7
Quote Science.howstuffworks.com:Jet engines spew out very hot air. And, because water vapor is one of the byproducts of the exhaust, the air is also very humid. However, high in the atmosphere where these jets fly, the air is typically very cold -- often lower than -40 degrees Fahrenheit. Additionally, the atmosphere up there is often of low vapor pressure, or the force exerted by a gas on the surrounding environment.When a jet engine is spewing out hot, humid air into an atmosphere that is cold and has low vapor pressure, the result is condensation. The water vapor coming out of the engine quickly condenses into water droplets and then crystallizes into ice. The ice crystals are the clouds that form behind the engine. This is why the streaks are called contrails, short for "condensation trails."
You know, contrails have existed ever since the first jets flew across our skies many decades ago. I'm surprised you haven't noticed till recently! Have you ever seen your breath on a cold day? If that coldness was as cold as it is up there with the jets (eg: minus 40 degrees) you'd also see ice crystals...ie: contrails coming out of your nose and mouth.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/what-are-chemtr...
#8
Oh, so you don't dispute that but you think that "they" are putting something else in the contrails...perhaps mixing it in with the jet fuel? Most "chemicals" would be burned up with the fuel.
Man, all they have to do is start another war somewhere to kill part of the populations (of both sides). And they are already putting chemicals in our food and genetically modifying food into plastic tasting tomatoes. At least the corn still tastes pretty good. And most of us are eating that stuff..so why do they need to spray us from above. And above all, I haven't seen any of the ruling elite wearing haz-mat suits and respirators...oh yeah, I already said that once. Maybe it needs to be repeated more often though. It might just sink in with repetition.
The last link I quoted also goes on to say that some remote ideas of using contrails to do things like seeding clouds for rain, or possibly trying to block the sun for the purpose of slowing down or even reversing Global Warming (although the soot and other fuel burn by products tend to add to the Global Warming problem). Some conspiracy theorists also have the idea that "chemtrails" are being used by the military, in conjuction with HAARP, for some nefarious program against the people.
#9
Oh, so you don't dispute that but you think that "they" are putting something else in the contrails...perhaps mixing it in with the jet fuel? Most "chemicals" would be burned up with the fuel.
Man, all they have to do is start another war somewhere to kill part of the populations (of both sides). And they are already putting chemicals in our food and genetically modifying food into plastic tasting tomatoes. At least the corn still tastes pretty good. And most of us are eating that stuff..so why do they need to spray us from above. And above all, I haven't seen any of the ruling elite wearing haz-mat suits and respirators...oh yeah, I already said that once. Maybe it needs to be repeated more often though. It might just sink in with repetition.
The last link I quoted also goes on to say that some remote ideas may have some, but very little, merit of using contrails to do things like seeding clouds for rain**, or possibly trying to block the sun for the purpose of slowing down or even reversing Global Warming (although the soot and other fuel burn by products tend to add to the Global Warming problem). Some conspiracy theorists also have the idea that "chemtrails" are being used by the military, in conjunction with HAARP, for some nefarious program against the people.
----------
** But what do we need to do that for when we can always use Wilhelm Reich's rainmaking machine. ;-} By the way, Wilhelm Reich was quite a character, horny as hell for sure...he sure loved his mother. ;-} Read about him on Wikipedia and you might learn something. It just goes to show how people are so taken in with nonsense all the time.
#10
Quote Palindromedary:Man, all they have to do is start another war somewhere to kill part of the populations (of both sides). And they are already putting chemicals in our food and genetically modifying food into plastic tasting tomatoes.
Palindromedary ~ Very true! However, you didn't mention the fact that they put all kinds of stuff in our water too. After all, the water supply is any populations biggest vulnerability. There is another way out conspiracy theory floating around--I don't know if you've heard about--concerning the flouride in our water. I states that fluoride used to be used to kill rats. Now it is added to our drinking water in order to dumb us down. If so, it seems to be working. Do you know anything about that one?
Personally I think professional sports and beer commercials are specifically designed to dumb us down, and do a much better job of it; but, that's just me.
#11
So, right you are, DAnnemarc! And yes, I had heard of that fluoride conspiracy theory as well. But, I don't remember what it was that conspiracy theorists thought was bad about it. That was a long time ago ...going around, I believe, in the 60's or was it the 50's? That was also about the time when "they" were trying to say that UNICEF was not raising money for children but for some Communist activity...the Communists were behind it and that we shouldn't contribute.
But, I believe that they were putting very tiny amounts of fluoride in the water because they found that fluoride in those tiny amounts would help to fight tooth decay. Now, I don't really know if that is true. And, maybe the Commies were behind UNICEF...but it sure sounds pretty ridiculous.
I'm sure that most chemicals can are are very dangerous in sufficient amounts. But those same chemicals might also be beneficial in very low doses. In fact, the gout pills I have to take sometimes are, I believe I read once, poison and could kill me if I took too many. Well, I guess even aspirin would do that too! In fact, you could probably even overdose on milk or bananas. I once read where someone ate quite a few bunches of bananas all at once and it killed him. Bananas tend to make you have constipation if you eat too many. In fact, if you drink too much water you can die from too much water on the brain. My doctor told me that many, many years ago when I was trying to "flush out my system".
#12
Thom hit the mark bringing in the quote from Studs T., a man who wrote about the The Worst Hard Time in our counties history. More people should read Turkel's work...
The increase in temp is coming from the chem trails of every car and coal fired power plant in our nation and the world. Its true, much of the increase in temperature is "baked into the cake" with current and past emmissions, but as the planet warms the tundra will begin to rot, sending huge amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Methane is more potent then carbon and will send us into an unforseen future.
What countries need to be doing - right now - is mitigating the devistation, building desalination plants in countries that are and will be soon without water, and moving towards the adapatation of our economic system. It will be done for us - and to us- anyway, or humanity can move forward by controling the change that is coming.
#13
Hey Truth: I just forgot about another possibility...that they are not burning that stuff through the jet engines..maybe they have little tubes, or trap doors for little tubes that are opened by the pilots, that spray this mysterious stuff out the back end. But then, I would imagine that these tubes would be quite noticeable to at least some people. But don't get them confused with the pitot tubes that are used to measure airspeed. I wonder if pilots or stewardesses are in on it too?
Maybe it is automatically controlled. That is sure possible...that's how they electronically hijacked the 9/11 airplanes and guided them to their targets. See there...I'm a conspiracy nut too....many people tell me so! But I sure don't go along with the small nukes planted in the towers or the space-based particle weapon that melted the towers...that's pretty far fetched for me. ;-}
#14
Very well said, Damondm!
Quote Damondm:The increase in temp is coming from the chem trails of every car and coal fired power plant in our nation and the world. Its true, much of the increase in temperature is "baked into the cake" with current and past emmissions, but as the planet warms the tundra will begin to rot, sending huge amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Methane is more potent then carbon and will send us into an unforseen future.
And just wait when all those frozen dinosaurs thaw out! ;-} But serious, I'm more worried about the microscopic creatures that thaw out. We may, some day, see terrible plagues from what gets thawed out in our frozen waste lands.
#15
Quote hartmann:...if we all toss in our efforts and push our politicians hard, we'll get there.I sure "hope" so but I'm afraid we are going to have to resort to way more that pushing our politicians hard. Other countries have had to "push" their governments "very hard" with the end of a barrel en masse. And unless the ruling elite and their toadies in government fear this, nothing will happen in our favor. They will continue on their path of driving us all into the ground...little squeaks only encourage them...we need the "roar" of beyond the effete ballot box.
#16
Quote damondm:What countries need to be doing - right now - is mitigating the devistation, building desalination plants in countries that are and will be soon without water, and moving towards the adapatation of our economic system. It will be done for us - and to us- anyway, or humanity can move forward by controling the change that is coming.
damondm ~ Well said! However, there is another way we can clean the atmosphere and save ourselves that is very inexpensive and progressive:
http://thehempsolution.blogspot.com/
#17
Sorry, I deleted a double entry of my comment that was split concurrently with the posting of DAnnemarc's comment. Strange! Notice the time stamps! All three comments had the same timestamp.
#18
In Earth's long history its climate has never stopped changing. As far I understand, once climate stops changing, it means the planet is dead. We are all aware that in its millions of years of existence the planet has been subjected to many catastrophic changes caused by meteors, continental plates movement, sun spots, what have you. In time, the planet's climate rebalances itself. Will it do so again in spite of mankind's activites on the surface and underground? Probably. Life is persistent. How long will it take? Anyone's guess. Oh, I have a little question: How do we know for certain the earth is not heating up from its core?
#19
I see lots of solutions to the symptoms. I don't see any inquiry or investigation into what the problem is. All of these symptoms point to one thing. The way we think. Thought is the problem. Anyone care to explore?
#20
Interesting Rose. Just a few decades ago scientist believed the earth was cooling at a alarming rate. They where talking about spraying the whole north with insulation to slow down the cooling.
Maybe the earth warming is a good thing. a lot of the planet is unusable as it is covered in Ice. there is a lot of Canada, Russia and China that would have a longer growing season. I have to look at a world map and see where most of the land is above water.
Has anyone seen any studies on the benifets of the planet warming? I'll google it.
#21
Thom, with all due respect, (and I think you're damn awesome)
This paragraph contradicts itself.
"I don’t think that all the tipping points Guy brings up are yet irreversible, and I believe there’s still a lot we can do to save the planet. I agree more with Michael Mann that we still have some time to fix things. But it’s still, as Mann points out, going to be damn hard to get the political will going worldwide or even here in the United States. And even using Mann’s conservative numbers, we’ll be at Guy’s point of no return in three decades or less."
You say you don't think the 32 self reinforcing feedbacks are irreversible (they are, hence named as such; irreversible, self reinforcing feedback loops), and that there's still a lot we can do (like what? Geo-engineering? solar panels? drive a Prius?).
That first thought is contradicted by then concluding Guy is right (he is, tragically).
Which is it?
Also, I think the proverbial feces has already hit the fan. Just in the US alone FEMA cannot keep up with the declared natural disasters over the past 5 years and is practically defunct. That's just the US, the nation of which you could fit three of into the African continent, another place reeling from climate change and our thirst for old earth minerals and fossil fuels...
Oh and 5 million people die early deaths annually due to climate change. The feces has struck the fan for them, most certainly.
As a mother of three and someone who loves truth and had hoped to see her grandchildren, I am not interested in attempts to urge the governments or "leaders" that murdered us, to now find ways to save us. They will not. It's not what they do. Such action is the antithesis of the kind of action Edward Abbey condoned, Action as the antidote to despair. Begging those who murdered us to stop has never worked.. It never will.
As for Studs Terkel, he also said this of WWII: "The war was fun for America. I'm not talking about the poor souls who lost sons and daughters. But for the rest of us, the war was a hell of a good time."
Hope dies last for some of us... For others, it's truth that we try to keep alive to the bitter end.
#22
When the Human race finally comes to an end, there will FINALLY be peace on Earth. Win, Win!
#23
I think we've already passed the tipping-point. We may have another 2 generations of life left. Of course, this could change if the Chemtrails would stop, but that's not likely to happen.
#24
Very good points, paulineSchneider! You mentioned the Prius...
Buying hybrids, like the Prius, is fashionable and probably a good idea but there are some caveats. From a cost standpoint, even though you may get good mileage, it is prudent to guestimate other costs over time and look at potential future downfalls...like cost of having to replace failing parts. And like the initial cost greater than similar gasoline-only cars. If you buy a new car every few years you probably don't have to worry about it.
The Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used in today's hybrid cars...like the Prius...and others...heavily relies on the mining of those rare earth materials largely from China. Because of the recent demand in the US for these batteries...they are even thinking of reopening the mines at Mountain Pass, California. I did a Google Earth search for that mine and what I see is a very deep crater mine and a very big hill of dirt.
The replacement cost of a battery is about $3000 (no telling what the cost will be in 10 years or even 1 or 2 years; but then, there's no telling what gasoline will cost either..I'm guessing...a lot!). Although, in the case of the Prius, they have a 10 year or 150,000 mile "no pro-rated" replacement warranty in California (8 years or 100,000 miles in all other states).
"A Toyota Prius battery, by the way, contains 168 1.2-Volt nickel-metal-hydride cells, which contain a total of 1.6 kilowatt-hours of energy. Its peak power output is 27 kilowatts, or about 36 horsepower."
---------------
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1059907_the-ultimate-guide-toyota-pr...
---------------
They claim 50MPG on the highway. It is capable of going 1 mile on electric power alone...then the gasoline engine has to kick in. I was kinda hoping for more.
The Toyota dealers claimed that failure of the battery is the least replaced part. Other parts fail first. I wouldn't doubt it with all those electronic gadgetry.
I recently test drove one and it was nice except for a bit of road noise, lack of acceleration from a slow speed, split upper and lower rear windows in and below the hatchback you have to get used to. And you have to get used to not having a normal key.
You have a remote-like dongle that the car senses it's presence allowing you to open the drivers-side door only (in case some carjacker tries to climb in the other doors). To start the engine, you have to push a "start" button on the dash. That "start" button won't start the car without the dongle being in proximity to the vehicle. I believe the dealer also said you can start the car, on a cold morning, from inside the house and warm up the car. Can't start the car without the dongle, though. I wonder how lock smiths deal with this...or carjackers who happen to be hackers as well?
The electronics...display panels...something you have to get used to. The model I tested had a sun roof and a solar panel built right into the roof behind the sun roof.
I don't know, the more electronics they put into these cars the more worried I am that I may not always be in total control...hackers...radar or communication systems causing interference**
-----------
**Garage doors wouldn't open in a whole community in San Antonio, TX due to NSA spying center's signals blocking garage door signals.
"Officials at the agency were forced to admit that one of the NSA's radio antennas was broadcasting at the same frequency as the garage door openers."
-------------
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-nsa-uses-powerful-toolbox-...
-------------
..and after seeing what happened to Michael Hastings (if you buy into the remotely controlled high speed crash into a tree along with a horrific explosion in a car that touted it's exclusive safety standards), it makes me a bit apprehensive about owning anything with all of these electronic gadgets. I love computers...sometimes I hate them...and I always hate brain-cell killer cell phones or anything smaller than a lap top computer.
#25
Quote thenation.com:The Coming ‘Instant Planetary Emergency’
How will climate change affect the future of the planet? Scientists predict it will be nothing short of a nightmare
-------------
Moving beneath the Arctic Ocean where methane hydrates—often described as methane gas surrounded by ice—exist, a March 2010 report in Science indicated that these cumulatively contain the equivalent of 1,000–10,000 gigatons of carbon. Compare this total to the 240 gigatons of carbon humanity has emitted into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution began.A study published in the prestigious journal Nature this July suggested that a fifty-gigaton “burp” of methane from thawing Arctic permafrost beneath the East Siberian sea is “highly possible at anytime.” That would be the equivalent of at least 1,000 gigatons of carbon dioxide.
Even the relatively staid IPCC has warned of such a scenario: “The possibility of abrupt climate change and/or abrupt changes in the earth system triggered by climate change, with potentially catastrophic consequences, cannot be ruled out. Positive feedback from warming may cause the release of carbon or methane from the terrestrial biosphere and oceans.”
--------------
Climate-change-related deaths are already estimated at 5 million annually, and the process seems to be accelerating more rapidly than most climate models have suggested. Even without taking into account the release of frozen methane in the Arctic, some scientists are already painting a truly bleak picture of the human future.
--------------
“The Arctic is warming faster than anywhere else on the planet,” climate scientist James Hansen has said. “There are potential irreversible effects of melting the Arctic sea ice. If it begins to allow the Arctic Ocean to warm up, and warm the ocean floor, then we’ll begin to release methane hydrates. And if we let that happen, that is a potential tipping point that we don’t want to happen. If we burn all the fossil fuels then we certainly will cause the methane hydrates, eventually, to come out and cause several degrees more warming, and it’s not clear that civilization could survive that extreme climate change.”
--------------
--------------
http://www.thenation.com/article/177614/coming-instant-planetary-emergency
-------------
And now, we have a super El Niño on it's way across the Pacific. It is predicted that this one will be worse than the last big one we had.
------------
And has anyone even heard of the release of high levels of radioactive waste into the atmosphere 25 miles east of Carlsbad, NM?
Quote truth-out.org:A recent fire and radiation release at New Mexico's Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (WIPP) uranium repository has brought renewed focus on the problem of what to do with a growing stockpile of radioactive waste and spent fuel from commercial nuclear reactors.The radiation release February 14, 2014, exposed at least 13 workers, after an alarm sounded and high levels of radiation were released from the underground repository in southeastern New Mexico, where nuclear waste from federal nuclear labs and weapons sites, along with discarded machinery, clothing and other radioactive waste is stored.
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/22599-radiation-leak-at-new-mexico-nu...
#26
Good morning to All
Palin your on a roll I see lol.These rockefellers ect.superhigh finance Oil atheist types ,with all do respect to the humanist. Believe me rothschilds and lube Job are, if allowed going to try and sell to the elites not the 99% Geo enginering on a grand scale and to access the north pole resources,Same way they sold the Iraq war!( first to each other )then media scraps are feed to the meek masses.leaving types like this forum and others to carry the torch.Friendly banter amongst the 99.8% like monday's blog I'm their,cheers. But the tactic of divide and conquer slipping in a mole and miss Info is the game we are Waking up to,eg Science paid for by the tobbaco lawyer types.this happened to the movement ,lack of Terms made it easy for media to dissipate impact ! Occuppy will as planned soon incorporate the .8% to 99.8%
Palin your quote "Moving beneath the Arctic Ocean where methane hydrates—often described as methane gas surrounded by ice—exist, a March 2010 report in Science indicated that these cumulatively contain the equivalent of 1,000–10,000 gigatons of carbon. Compare this total to the 240 gigatons of carbon humanity has emitted into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution began."
Could turn this Blue planet into the likes of Venus a green house planet! it has happened before !!in earth's history Runaway greenhouse effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia their idea is I'll be dead any way! so the greedy Athiest (not humanist )like Rockefellers Monopoly again and again from GMO's to the climate pollution nuke's being tested just to sell the dam bomb !and the whole time some ball-less pig fratbuddy , bonesboy for a quick fix back stabs life as we know it over and over!!
Schism Time!!! Let's Rock lol
#27
oh and now that the earth is round, the left and right can only be so far away on any topic truth!
About this cold winter besides the Solar cycle Current Solar Activity Cycle Is Weakest in a Century | Space.com and the ozone depletion in the polar north.My theory is that the cold winter has been brought on because the cold air is being pushed down south due to man's activities ect.so until the tipping point we might see colder times then a massive warming.scientific analysis that I am not aware of could conclude this.thank you.
Frac out
#28
Thought is the problem for it has been said many times Humanity's Beliefs create behaviours and behaviours create conditions our on the ground reality .So the fastest way to change anything is change the belief you hold about that thing.The sponsoring belief of humanity or original thought goes way back .Here they are Humans are separate from god/life and each other we are born inherently evil and it's fittest that survive ! Organised religion and its make believe fallacies have caused humanity to suffer on a massive scale and until we change our idea about who we are and what we at doing here the problems will persist for the nature of all our problems are spiritual and this is the only solution ,we have tried everything else and we just go around in circles .Einstein had a great quote on this" insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results "!
These original thoughts are the problem ? So our cultural story that is the story we tell ourselves about what we believe life is about is in error .Time to write a new cultural story with new guiding principles for Humanity We are all one and there's enough for everyone would be a good start .
#29
Go to: http://fluoridealert.org for all the info on the toxicity of fluoride and what the rest of the planet is doing about it as compared to this country.
H.
#30
Corporate Science has brought us deadly synthetics and petrochemical madness, uncotrolled and uncontrollable pollution and deadly pharmaceuticals sold as cures.
Science is not Pure. Science has no morality or ethics. Science doesn't even have ideals. Science is not even Truth since the basis of the scientific process is new discovery which is ever-changing.
Science is just a process. Not to keep this as your definition of Science is to fall prey to Scientism.
Scientists separated from their humanity and conscience and responsibility are just obsessive-compulsives who can't say no to Pathological Curiosity.
Beware making Scientists into the members of a new Priesthood. Scientists are no closer to "God"/Mystery than any other human walking this Earth. It is silliness to think scientists are our modern holymen, closer to the answers that we pray can save us. To think Science is The Answer is to practice yet another religion.
Scientists are NOT saviours. Their findings are not Holy Writ!
Science cannot solve our problems.
If you think this and say this you are only regurgitating memes promoted by the likes of GE (General Electric) via their empty advertising slogans!
Science is no more useful or effective or dependable than any other human endeavor.
Science is NOT an institution even.
In our culture and time, Science is merely a TOOL of certain institutions: the Military, Big Pharma, Big Agriculture, The Petrochemical and Mining Giants, the Surveillance Octopus, even robber baron Wall Street with its theft algorithms!
Take the Roman Catholic Church purporting to be God's link to man and yet that Church was the source of intolerance of variant ideas, and the source of the Inquisition and perpetrator of religious-profiteering.
If one cannot let go of Science as Saviour of us and all around us, one's got a problem with reality.
Humankind's adoption of Scientific Technologies has not led to even one lasting panacea -- but has led to one war tool innovation after another, one environmental degradation and crisis after another, even one feeling of superiority after another especially when it comes to the Elite Class that controlled the implementation of the technological change.
#31
hartmann wrote:...if we all toss in our efforts and push our politicians hard, we'll get there.
I sure "hope" so but I'm afraid we are going to have to resort to way more that pushing our politicians hard. Other countries have had to "push" their governments "very hard" with the end of a barrel en masse. And unless the ruling elite and their toadies in government fear this, nothing will happen in our favor. They will continue on their path of driving us all into the ground...little squeaks only encourage them...we need the "roar" of beyond the effete ballot box.
=============================================
IF THE POWER ELITE WANTED TO GO THERE, THE POLITICIANS WOULD ALREADY BE PUSHED.
Which I think is the biggest indicator that much of Global Warming has been the result of weather modification Science (GEO-ENGINEERING) in full swing as carried out by plan by the Power Elite themselves -- as most likely another disaster capitalist scheme. All the better to mine tar sands if the Arctic is melting, no?
#32
Homo Sapiens are insane apes out of balance with nature. The development of our super ego sealed our demise. We knew in the early 70's, that if we didn't bury our petrol-chemical autos they would bury us. Carter understood and hosted the beginning of the green economy. He put solar on the white house. Reagan-Bush came in and took them down. The war between the green economy and the fossil burning economy is over. We lost. We cannot close pandoras box. Not enough time. The science of measure is very precise. The melting of permafrost and the release of methane creates an exponential rise in global warming with no reversal.
We would have to harness the green energy from our rivers using low face dam technology that create habitat for fish and marine life. We can use the design to move water to consumers. 25% of our carbon footprint in CA is spent just moving water around the state. We must implement 21st century water science technology and re-organize the management of our water resource. End fossil burning cars. Build homes that are water and energy efficient for single income families. Break up the large agriculture land ownership by internatrional multi national corporations. Enable the formation of small farms that are more productive in balance with nature. Create a 4 day, 3 day alternative work week. We must learn to work less, to consume less and to live more. If we cannot learn to do these things we will certainly perish.
#33
nora: At least scientists are real..they exist...God doesn't...God is just a make-believe, just-pretend idea that some people choose to believe in. Although some people try to give their just-pretend buddy in the sky all the credit for all of the good things and never any of the bad things...so they have Satan for that part. This belief in God sure didn't create modern science or any of the products of modern science. We would still be believing in all manner of mythical beings were it not for science. Science is not God. God doesn't exist except in the minds of people who choose to believe it. Some people believe in other ridiculous things too...they just exist in their minds. Yes, science is just a tool. I agree. And it has been a very useful tool.
It is nonsensical to even use the word "God" unless you are dyslexic (ie: god is dog..and some people think so...others...cats ;-}) in any realistic sense unless you are referring to mythology. Believing in God is tantamount to believing in flying carpets or any of the other ancient nonsense. No one today seriously believes that Thor, Isis, or Neptune were anything but inventions of man's imagination. So is it with God. God is nothing more than the invention of man's imagination.
And did you know that many things in the Bible were plagiarisms from more ancient myths. And there are quite a few parallels to Roman history as well. It seems the Romans were trying to psyche out the Jews...trying to get them to be not so rebellious...trying to split them into bickering factions so that they would not be such a pain-in-the-backside to Roman rule. So they created parallels to some instances of Roman history and modified them to be Jewish accounts of their stories that you now can read in the bible. It was a way of not only making fun of the Jews if they fell for these stories...they, of course, being the Christians that morphed from the Jewish religion and Paganism....but the Romans hoped that all Jews would be converted to people who would not rebel against Rome. "Give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar" (ie: pay your taxes). Don't rebel against your master. etc.
And there were many different early Christian churches then all of whom bickered over their beliefs. Some mixed Paganism with the new Christianity. But, this turned out to be yet another pain-in-the backside for Roman rulers...especially the Emperor Constantine..who hauled all of these bickering bishops together to hash out what was to be, from then on out, the unified Christian religion. They mixed in some of the Pagan beliefs of some of the bishops and, of course, of Constantine himself who was Pagan. And they threw out many other beliefs of the early Christian Church. And after they finally concluded, with the approval of Constantine, the Christian Church partially as we know it today was born. I say partially because there has been a lot of errors by scribes and outright manipulation and falsification by Church authorities over the many years. So much for the inerrant word of God as brought to you through the bible that was "inspired by men of God". Funny, no?
I think it's rather funny, if not very odd, that many believers over the years have gone from absolutist fundamentalist believers who believed every jot and tittle in the King James Bible (or any other Bible..why are there so many?;-}) to a kind of modified belief system where they have to admit that some parts of the bible are metaphorical or symbolic or some other schmooze word in justifying their current superstitious beliefs. It was largely science that has enlightened many people despite the fact that scientists have been burned to the stake by the ignorant lot who just couldn't understand or accept science. There are still people today, "believers" in whatever derivation of an "inerrant" word of God they wound up with, who are not much better than the believers of nonsense a thousand, or so, years ago...or even many thousands of years ago.
The ancient Mesopotamian superstitions, the ancient Hindu superstitions, the ancient Egyptian superstitions, the ancient Jewish superstitions, the ancient Greek superstitions, etc...they all morphed into modern day superstitions. And at each juncture the priest's goal was to manipulate the masses. So, they took parts of the more ancient superstitions, myths, and modified them a bit to make them more believable to the masses they hoped to control.
It is largely science that has shown the fallacies of religious beliefs and which has caused many people to modify their beliefs. Although, there are still a few who try desperately to trash science in favor of their fundamentalist beliefs.
#34
There is no doubt that there are many people who have misused science to serve their own greed. And there is no doubt that scientists are human and err in many human ways..and some even have fragments of superstitious beliefs that were, perhaps, crammed into their brains by their parents or relatives...or later on, perhaps, by friends who you didn't want to risk estrangement from.
Some, who still have remnants of a religious belief, often have to separate what they know to be true in science with the opposing ideas of the religious indoctrination (brainwashing) they got when younger.
For some, it is a way to cling on to loved ones who were devout believers...or not. Or, perhaps, some acute psychological event occurred that made them fall easy prey to religious or superstitious proselytizers. There have been many cases like this...whether it be a "psychic" pretending to be able to connect their victims to their dead relatives or some other scammer peddling superstitious garbage to a psychologically vulnerable victim.
#35
Craig Bush: " We must learn to work less, to consume less and to live more. If we cannot learn to do these things we will certainly perish"
Sounds good to me!
#36
FractionallyUnnerved: "Palin your on a roll I see lol."
Yes, I sat right down on top of it...but I ate it anyway...I was hungry! ;-}
By the way, I don't know anything about whether the Rockefellers or other "superhigh finance Oil atheist types" are actually atheists.
They could be very religious Jews or Christians or Muslims or whatever...I don't know. They are sure greedy, that's for sure!
That link you posted didn't work but I think this is what you meant...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_greenhouse_effect
I agree, this planet very well could be similar to the planet Venus some day.
#37
humanitys team - To change from one belief to another, seems to me, to be doing the Einstein quote that you mentioned. You mentioned some beliefs, but there are many other beliefs that people hold that are very different from those. And a belief is not actual, it is a fantasy. It does not exist. It's expressed in many ways, an ideal, an image, a philosophy, an ideology, a system and other ways. So, what IS different is to end beliefs entirely. When you end believing, what are you left with? The actual, the 'what is' Now you see who you actually are. As well as others. You see the futility of solving symptoms and not solving the problem. You quoted Einstein. He had another one that eventually made sense to me. 'We can not solve our problems by using the same level of thinking that we used to create them.'. I am suggesting that ending beliefs is a different level of thinking.
#38
Thanks for the link correction Pal ! Truth be known ,Acharya s mythisist stance is very interesting she is quit the intellectual Beauty. I have received Ms. S letters for years. so please respect my beliefs. lol
#39
Frac: I respect the beliefs of those who respect mine. And they must certainly not respect those of non-believers if they start throwing around their religion at us. If people persist in mentioning their superstitious beliefs then I should have a right to express my beliefs as well. The best thing is for no one to mention their superstitious beliefs...because that looks like they are trying to proselytize us with them. And we atheists should have the same right to express our beliefs...or non beliefs as well. If you don't want opposing views then only express your religious or superstitious views in church or in some other setting where you have like-minded people.
It is the same thing as when someone makes a statement that they believe that 9/11 was an inside job. People that don't believe it have a right to challenge them on it. And they have. Nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with my expressing my counter believes on superstitious things when superstitious things are thrown into the conversation. I don't know too many "Christians" who respect my beliefs or non beliefs. If I went around trying to proselytize Christians into atheism they would be quite upset. But if they can proselytize then I can proselytize right back at them. And it's not just Christians...any superstitious belief that is thrown out in in the middle of a conversation is equally deserving of being countered.
#40
Frac: Acharya S. (aka Dorothy Murdock) has a lot of interesting history on how more ancient religions influenced modern day religions. Oh, yes, and also how astrology is woven into religion as well. I believe, however, that she is in to astrology herself (as a belief)...so I consider astrology to be a mixture of superstition and astronomy (the science). So, I don't buy everything about her beliefs. But she is very intelligent and knowledgeable in archeology and ancient history and can read several ancient languages. But, I guess you probably already know all of this.
#41
I recall reading in a science magazine about 4 or 5 years ago that it had been observed that several planets in our solar system were warming up, and it was suggested it might have something to do with the regions of space the solar system passes through in its endless travels in the universe. True reason unknown, however. The Earth's magnetic field has been shifting and weakening for many years so that will also have an influence on climate.
#42
...a belief is not actual, it is a fantasy. It does not exist. It's expressed in many ways, an ideal, an image, a philosophy, an ideology, a system and other ways. So, what IS different is to end beliefs entirely. When you end believing, what are you left with? The actual, the 'what is' Now you see who you actually are. As well as others. You see the futility of solving symptoms and not solving the problem. You quoted Einstein. He had another one that eventually made sense to me. 'We can not solve our problems by using the same level of thinking that we used to create them.'. I am suggesting that ending beliefs is a different level of thinking.
Yes! Thank you for zeroing in on BELIEF!
The Immobility of the Power Elite and Capitol Hill's immobility on CLIMATE CHANGE are both reflective of the USA culture of RELIGIOUS COMMITMENT TO END TIMES.
BOTH these groups are averse to creating conservation policy for energy and pollution control.
The Religious embracers of End Times have their scripts laid out in their myths -- with Armageddon and Raptures galore and are happy to deny any policy solutions to the situation because their GOD can't be stopped anyway!
The other group, though -- The Power Elite -- are DO NOTHINGS because doing something might get in the way of their DISASTER CAPITALISM which is constantly capitalizing on the bad weather which is so useful for speculating on crop failures, commodity availability, financing advantages in controlling the number of available construction days or days to transport goods, capitalizing on the increased fuel needs for heating in extreme cold or cooling in extreme heat, making a killing on depressed real estate after storms, floods, fires and economic havoc and the growing need for insurance. Indeed, these 'Dark Side' advantages to the profitable consolidation of wealth from disasters leads me to surmise that the members of the Power Elite are GEO-ENGINEERING CLIMATE INSTABILITY with their access to weather modification technology and this is precisely why we don't see the One Percent in the forefront of ending POLLUTION, and they fail to initiate practices leading to CLEANER INDUSTRY, CLEANER ENERGY, CONSERVATION, or EDUCATIONAL CAMPAIGNS!
The apocalyptic descriptions of the climate change scientists feed the mythical mindset of the Christianist Death Cult and Dominionists, and the believers in religious End Times would NEVER step in to PREVENT the events leading their glorious myth of Destruction and Rapture. And, similarly, those who BELIEVE in Science are also unable to extract themselves from the Cultural EMERSION in END-OF-THE-WORLD interpretation of information they are trying to deal with!
The non-religious "DO NOTHINGS" whose 'Dark Side' ideation creates UNINTERRUPTED PROFITS and MORE PROFITS by polluting and externalizing costs (via Cap & Trade schemes and carbon taxes on consumers, and even subsidies for solar conversions (which in this country apply only to those who are profligate in their energy use but do not apply to those who conserve and would like to conserve more)). This group will never move to solve a pollution problem. IMMOBILIZATION on this issue suits their profiteering priorities!
The myth-based delusions of the Rapturists might be easier to understand; they just DESIRE for their End Times Myths to be real! But what can one expect of a 'Dark Side' Power Elite? All I expect is more 'Dark Side' machinations; I speculate they actually help perpetrate the End Times fantasization in popular culture (via media programming investment) because they know that as long as The Public is stuck in an End Times frame of reference, then The Public won't be looking for the truth of what's happening with GEO-ENGINEERING and weather modification, etc.
And what of those who actually BELIEVE in Science and accept that there is something going on? Are they too so steeped in this American Culture of Apocalypse -- with its movies/TV/videogames and war mongering militarization -- just so used to End Times thinking that they cannot PRACTICE SCIENCE in a search for an answer about where the Climate Change is coming from, but must instead BELIEVE only ONE Scientific OPINION about the state of weather on Earth?!
If the USA wasn't dominated by Dominionists, along with a Power Elite that keeps its motives and activities under the radar for as long as possible, we'd probably already have a Continent-wide REFORESTATION program in this country. But with this bunch, and regular folk also being emersed in this dysfunctional culture with its dominant End Of The World group think, we will never get REFORESTATION.
#43
Yes, Nora, all based on beliefs. My belief (fantasy) is better than your belief (fantasy). Conditioning is very powerful.
#44
What cracks me up is how we'll call each other "Neanderthals" as an intended insult, like we assume we're so much smarter than they were. But their brains were larger than ours. Their species lasted WAY longer than homo sapiens thus far (twice as long? Triple as long?) and they lived in perfect harmony with nature. Kinda has me re-thinking what should define "smart", if ya know what I mean...
By the way, this disparity of brain size between us and Neanderthals is another intriguing tidbit of information picked up from yours truly, Thom Hartmann! I heard it in one of those "geeky science" interludes on his radio show. - Aliceinwonderland
#45
It's not only brain size that determines intelligence or ability to learn. Another factor is the body size/weight to the size/weight of the brain. But probably the most important factor is the amount of folding of the Cortex.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/kinser/Int5.html
Quote wikipedia:The largest brains are those of sperm whales, weighing about 8 kg (18 lb). An elephant's brain weighs just over 5 kg (11 lb), a bottlenose dolphin's 1.5 to 1.7 kg (3.3 to 3.7 lb), whereas a human brain is around 1.3 to 1.5 kg (2.9 to 3.3 lb).
And then, there is the matter of human head size. Are men's heads which are often larger than women's heads indicative that men are smarter than women? Some people may think so...but they are usually men.
If it wasn't for all that folding of the cortex, given the same brain weight, humans would be dumb as snot.
Which lake has the capacity for more beach area a round one or one that has a lot of irregular coves? If most intelligence is a result of the overall inside surface of the cortex then one with lots of folding is the winner. But body weight to brain size is still also important. I wonder if fat people lost all their excessive weight if they would become more intelligent? ;-} Are skinny people more intelligent than overweight ones? I guess there are a lot of factors that one has to consider.
#46
Aliceinwonderland ~ Most intriguing theory. Neanderthals and devolution. We're not progressing we are regressing. Many of the earlier biblical stories would certainly agree. According to the bible, the first humans lived lifetimes of almost 1000 years. As generations progressed the life expectancy slowly regressed. In school the explanation was that this was a result of mankind increasing in sin and decreasing closeness with God. If one--such as an atheist--were simply to replace the word God with the word nature, and sin with crimes against nature, the entire phenomenon would make perfect sense to anyone.
If so, one could easily conclude that if Neanderthals were indeed able to live in far greater harmony with nature, then they were also much closer to the "God" concept. One could also conclude that perhaps that is why they successfully existed so much longer than we have; and, just because they don't appear to us today, perhaps still exist somewhere to this day. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. After all, humans only take up a small percentage of the surface of the known planet. There is also a huge unexplored area undersea and underground; and, that doesn't even take into account all the other planets and moons in the solar system. In addition, no one seems to know what the Sasquatch phenomenon really is all about. Certainly, any advanced intelligent life on this planet would steer clear of interaction with the human species. I know I would--if I could.
#47
Quote Palindromedary:It's not only brain size that determines intelligence or ability to learn. Another factor is the body size/weight to the size/weight of the brain. But probably the most important factor is the amount of folding of the Cortex.
Palindromedary ~ Agreed! However, is it possible to calculate the folding of a Cortex from a fossil? Wouldn't you need a live Neanderthal to make that conclusion? Isn't Aliceinwonderland's contention about the known existence of the creature enough to testify as to it's intelligence compared to modern day man?
Finally, who are you to criticize the intelligence of a whale? Have you given one an IQ test recently? If you ask me, the mere fact that they spend their time in the ocean as far away from man as possible is a decent indicator that they are pretty smart. It is also a known fact that whales are able to communicate with each other over vast distances. Is'nt that also a fair indicator of intelligence? Man, if stuck on an island without technology can't do that. Even the concept of a note in a bottle is useless if he has no paper, pen, or bottle. A whale needs nothing but their brain.
#48
Quote DAnnemarc:If one--such as an atheist--were simply to replace the word God with the word nature, and sin with crimes against nature, the entire phenomenon would make perfect sense to anyone.
I could almost agree with that.
Quote DAnnemarc:If so, one could easily conclude that if Neanderthals were indeed able to live in far greater harmony with nature, then they were also much closer to the "God" concept.
Now, you are using bait and switch. I certainly would not conclude that "God" has anything to do with anything since "God" is a supernatural concept. Nature is a natural concept not a supernatural one. Nature is real...God is not.
Besides, it looks like you are committing a very obvious logical fallacy when you start off assuming one thing that you now call "nature" then assume that the terms Nature and God are synonymous (which they are most certainly not) and then you use the term "God" in the place of where you previously used "nature".
Nature is nature. Why not just call it nature? Why put hocus-pocus into it at all?
People like to eat food.
therefore:
If one were to simply replace the word "bullsh1t" with the word "food" one could easily conclude that: People like to eat "bullsh1t".
#49
Men smarter than women?! Don't make me laugh.
By the way, I've heard & read that brain size in humans actually shrinks with excessive weight gain. Since I tend to get such information from reliable sources, I can't dismiss it. However I won't deny that I've known some very bright individuals who happen to also be heavy. Even Einstein looked kinda plump, later in life. - AIW
#50
Be careful, Marc, with all that biblical talk. We don't wanna trigger another one of Palin's long-winded diatribes!
Frankly my friend, I find tales of Sasquatch a lot more believable than a thousand-year human lifespan. - AIW
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Images of Thom
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"In an age rife with media-inspired confusion and political cowardice, we yearn for a decent, caring, deeply human soul whose grasp of the problems confronting us provides a light by which we can make our way through the quagmire of lies, distortions, pandering, and hollow self-puffery that strips the American Dream of its promise. How lucky we are, then, to have access to the wit, wisdom, and willingness of Thom Hartmann, who shares with us here that very light, grown out of his own life experience."
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Hartmann combines a remarkable piece of historical research with a brilliant literary style to tell the grand story of corporate corruption and its consequences for society with the force and readability of a great novel."
From Screwed:
"If we are going to live in a Democracy, we need to have a healthy middle class. Thom Hartmann shows us how the ‘cons’ have wronged this country, and tells us what needs to be done to reclaim what it is to be American."
Hello Thom
We need to openly discuss how and why we are being cooked alive by Stratospheric aerosol spraying also known as 'chemtrails' as I have seen this program progress over 15 years now.
It is truly stupefying how this event is either ignored or swept away as mere contrails. I know the difference! When I first noticed this, I contacted several agencies to inquire about the spraying and I was always dismissed, as a whatever. You hear arguments about climate change all the time without one mention of this global assault! That makes all discussions invalid and moot. I have never heard any of your guests speak to this. The silence is deadening.
You can call it stratospheric aerial spraying or ‘chemtrails’ but not geo-engineering, as the term geo-engineering is being pushed as a campaign to fight global warming. These chemtrails are inducing global warming and global dimming of sunlight!
Please interview a researcher who goes by the name of Freeman Fly as he has a great deal of information on this and many other programs currently in operation. Freeman Fly is a humble and extraordinary researcher with an aim to share the history of this planet and unite people in seeing their world as the wonder that it is.
He is at www.freemantv.com
I would also ask you to please interview Scott Stevens at www.weatherwars.info
These two researchers are not hell bent on making buckets of money from their research as so many are. What they offer is noteworthy to say the least.