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Judge shopping . . . and choosing the venue.
If life begins at fertilization then the survival rate thru gestation is around 30% under entirely natural conditions (miscarriages etc.). It stands to reason that, even if there is a God, life at that stage of development is intended to be basically expendable.
Then, on the other extreme, the notion that every sperm is sacred...
If we define life as beginning once a normal adult component of chromosomes is present in the cell and accept that human life is to be protected from that point on, then isn't the destruction of unwanted embryos murder, and failure to maintain them neglect and abuse, and implantation of in vitro conceived embryos for a fee trafficing in human lives? All of these are illegal and considered immoral and shouldn't all in vitro fertilization clinics be held accountable in court? You can't follow a chromosome complement definition without opening up a horrendous legal can of worms. Unfortunately, the radical anti-abortion camp refuses to even hear an argument that would weaken their stand. This morning we were treated to a wonderful example of that deafness.
Gerald--I hope your wrist gets better. (Who will send us links in your absence?)
@Vent4fun: This website ain't based on moveable type and lacks that level of spiffiness. Responses are not stacked and conversations are blended.
Regarding zygotes and embryos: What you have with the embryo is a blue print. If I had a blueprint of a building, I couldn't get on the elevator and go to the basement or top floor - the blueprint is not a building. Same for a ship - I can't go to sea in a blueprint.
I will be away from the computer for a respite in some much needed R and R. Plus, my arthritis is acting up in my right wrist. Please keep up the good work! I felt a strong need to again comment on this message.
Messenger
I am only a messenger that is reporting to you the message from several sources. The message hurts but it must be spoken loud and clear.
Silence Speaks
American soldiers have been killed in Iraq for the Bush lies. I want to remind my Church that she cannot remain silent on the many moral issues. SILENCE ON MORAL ISSUES SPEAKS LOUD AND CLEAR AND THE MESSAGE IT SENDS TO PEOPLE SPEAKS OF INDIFFERENCE TO THE PLIGHT OF MANY AMERICANS WHO CURRENTLY LIVE UNDER AN OPPRESSIVE REGIME.
The former sheriff of Wayne County, Michigan, William Lucas gave a talk that my wife and I attended. He said that when we do nothing, we are doing something. He also said that to say nothing we are talking loud and clear. What he was saying, that inaction, silence, or both conveys a message that we are condoning the behavior of people that may very well be hurting other people. Social injustice and immorality hurts other people and we cannot remain silent or sit idly by and do nothing.
What we must do is to keep in mind the words of Jesus in Matthew 25: 31-46. The central theme of this biblical verse says, “When you do it for the least of My brethren, you do it for Me”.
Silence Speaks Volumes
Martin Luther King Jr. from his jail in 1963 said, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of bad people, but for the appalling silence of good people.”
Cindy Sheehan regrets that she did not scream out at Congress and say, Congress, don’t you dare abrogate your constitutional rights and responsibilities! Do not under any circumstances give the keys to our country to power-drunk, irresponsible, and reckless maniacs.
When George said, “If you’re not for us, you’re against us”, Cindy Sheehan will forever regret that she did not phone and scream, “I am so against you and your repulsive policies, you self-important man. I am against killing innocent people and I am against you telling me it’s unpatriotic to be against you and your murderous philosophy!”
YES, AMERICA, ENGLAND, AND ISRAEL ARE THE TRIAD OF EVIL NATIONS!
The messages that I offer are from a variety of sources. But, the colonoscopy, pulling of the finger, a marinated four bean salad, and Kim Chee are truisms with an added flare and wit. Religious comments are my beliefs and from various religiosity studies.
Laura D: regarding your sister's plan for testicular removal:
What would you do to the woman who also has one or more unwanted children? Unless she's being raped, she's at least half responsible for preventing pregnancy too. Should she have an ovary removed? And then both if there's more than one pregnancy she doesn't want?
Or, we could push birth control, make it free and highly accessible to even the poor and teens (since for some reason, conservative people want to prevent them from accessing it) and really and truly change our national dialoge and thought processes to put an emphasis on preventing unwanted pregnancies, because it can be done. A million abortions occuring in this country alone is kind of absurd. We can do better.
Embryo-free stemcells. ----
Thom, the scientists that developed the method of extracting stemcells from fat cells say they "never would of been able to perfect their process had it not of been for embryonic stemcell research" to base it upon.
They have also conceded that, because non-embryo stemcells from a persons' own fat cells still contain genetic trace-markers and "blood-type" precursors, they will never been as flexible or as universally useful as embryonic stemcells.
What if life began when it actually began . . . BILLIONS of farging years ago?
What if there is a soul and it enters the human body when my folk say . . . With the first breath of life?
What if we take a group of cells that are not even potentially a human being until they have been subjected seven plus months of a highly specific cocktail of human hormones in a specific and timely manner in a human uterus AND allow them to save an actual human life with an actual postulated human soul instead of being disposed of into the toilet or sink their destiny is leading them to unless they are used to save a life?
And why wait around to inject a soul at the moment of conception . . . How many half souls get spent by teen age boys each and every day?
What if this is an earthly matter and human's do as the supposed deity’s handbook says (twice) and not carry god's name before us when entering an earthly pursuit of endeavor?
What if the framers/founders were correct in their assessment that we should not sully religion by infecting it with matters of state AND the state should provide for the common welfare of the people who empower it?
What if the folk who created the concept of original sin acknowledge that it is the concept of souls at conception that damn fetuses to places worse than South Dakota AND stop abandoning the soul once it birthed?
What if your inquiry is correct and souls ARE injected at the moment of conception AND the zygote is flushed, is that murder?
What if God judges us far more harshly for failing to love our neighbors as ourselves than using life to sustain life?
I recognize and honor those whose belief system informs them to protect life from conception to grave; who are anti-abortion and anti-death penalty and anti-in vitro conception. It is an honest interpretation of a weighty topic. I value the consistency of the Catholic Church in its stance . . . No abortion, no death penalty and no in vitro . . . It is about honoring LIFE (BUT only because of what happens upon death strangely enough). There is consistency AND that is good. They also focus upon good education of the young and feeding the poor and sheltering/providing sanctuary to the living; also, good and consistent. I refuse the judge the consistent harshly . . . But I have a real issue with the protect the fetus, pre-born soldiers to be spent for war or murder, abandon the child once it is born, kill it if its bad seed (but provide for sex with the spousal unit until the state whacks it) mentality.
I know my interpretation of the universe is largely based on the concept that a human fetus is handled as a property rights issue (Strike a women and she looses the fetus = payment of restitution) . . . Life would be easier if the same folk trying to deny folk the advancement of science or say right to marriage would read more than 80 or so lines of book they profess as their foundation of belief AND understand that they lack the cultural references to full appreciate my peoples book. My understanding leads from an interpretation of a religion not focused on a place I have zero access to until I slough off the mortal coil . . . Judaism is about the life of the living and breathing.
If the courts want to reverse a Presidential action, they should pick one like striking President Reagan's Executive Order that suspended enforcement of the Sherman Anti-trust Acts. THAT would provide for ACTUAL public good and beat some soulless corporations back into the legal liability shields that they we the people designed them to be.
Hi I am Laura Dudgeon from Dearborn MI and I would like to share my sister's plan for the good old boy's network that wants to control our body. If a man is the father of an unwanted child he should have one testicle removed and if he does it again that would be the last time he could do it.
My reply was to Jeanie's comment, btw... It didn't show up under her window... ??
Re : Stem Cells
Is the objection based upon a religious law? If so, then it seems to me that our secular government should have no say regarding religious matters.
The wad of cells from which stem cells are typically harvested from is at the zygote and blastulas stages of embryo development . . . For these wads of cells to become a human . . . Timely passage of time, hormones and environment must be added. Even fetuses are still potential human life.
Hell, until they graduate from college and move out . . . They aren’t human beings.
I think, even though I'm a very pro-choice liberal female, that men can have opinions on abortion and can express them. We don't get pregnant by ourselves. I don't like men forcing pregnancies on females, but it is wrong for us to not allow men (and this goes for women too) to express their thoughtful opinion (and not scream "baby killers!") on abortion and other mostly-female issues.
Are women not allowed to have an opinion on something that only affects men? So women shouldn't have any say or utter any opinions in anything related to male ED.
FYI, female caller, lots and lots of men are pro-choice.
I agree... I call them "anti-choice" ...epithets... most of the time
More BS from a war criminal who advocates wars from the Obama administration. I also include Obama as a war criminal.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/23/biden-too-soon-to-declare-afghan-war-a-failure/
Stepping on an acorn, is not chopping the tree, sentient beings- zygotes are not- good caller google the Quality of Life movement' - caller Bernard.
YEAH --
aren't a women's eggs actually that precious --
"gift of life" --
now-a-days a woman has a choice --
to share the gift she has been given -- MM
@harry, here is another example of unnatural deaths that are mortal sins and damning the souls of Americans.
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/23/us-drone-strike-destroys-house-full-of-children-in-pakistan/
BIG MONEY in chronic illness --
for BIG PHARMA --
was the case brought about funding?
Not "pro-life"; actually it's "pro-placental life". Once you're out of the placenta, you're on your own.
So-called "pro-life" people call pro-choice people "pro-abortion". Always. So I personally don't feel the necessity of calling them "pro-life".
We have no heroes!!!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/There-Are-No-Heroes-in-Ill-by-Robert-Jensen-100823-82.html
@harry, here are other unnatural deaths that have been planned to enslave us as a people.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Death-of-The-American-Drea-by-Steven-Forrest-100823-879.html
If you're truly of the opinion that fertilized eggs are people too and you don't want excess fertilized eggs used for research, then to be consistent you need to also be anti-fertilization clinic. Because you can't be ok with 400,000 LIVE HUMAN BABIES are sitting in freezers degrading to death, now can you?
I read a while ago that in Italy, they only allow 2 embryos to be created or implanted (can't remember). This way, there aren't excess embryos and also women wouldn't become Octomoms. That's logical to me if you're really a life-begins-at-conception kind of person.