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We don't know when, how or where life began exactly. Millions perhaps Billions of years ago in some primordial soup somewhere in our oceans (maybe). At best (unless you don't believe in evolution, in which case I doubt I can find reason to discuss it further along that point of view) from the moment the first single cell life form divided and reproduced, the was the beginning of life, my life, your life, everybody's life, for life has existed in one form or another in an unbroken chain from the existence of being in that single cell to each life form that populates this planet. If you really want to get theological about it, there is more of a scientific argument that we truly are all brothers and sisters than any lofty prophet's claims.
Arguments about we may be aborting the next JFK or Hitler is pointless. Neither was born to their positions, they were shaped by their experiences and they rose to the opportunities presented them. I believe that there are several men and women out there today, that could fill such positions, but being great to one extreme or another is meaningless if the opportunity does not present itself. In other words, no single person matters more than another, its what any single person can do and does do with their life that matters.
I find it interesting that some of the loudest voices against abortion rights are old white men. The abortion debate is not about the medical procedure. It's about subjugation of women.
buddhism teaches that there is no fixed boundary between an individual life and its enviroment, and the phenomenon of birth provides a good example. being a result of a combination of causes, birth will not occur if any prerequisites are out of kilter. more and more the scientific community is coming to to accept this view, as research findings indicate a strong connection between reproduction and such unrelated phenomenon as planetary movements, sunlight, the progression of the seasons, and other natural expressions of the workings of the cosmos.
Thom,
Angela Davis:
http://www.wcl.american.edu/faculty/adavis/
BTW, I heard her speak when I was in college back in the '70s. She was amazing.
"Of course every cell feels pain. thats’ why a haircut is so painful."
But did you ever ask your hair how they felt?
I'm glad I was protected from the ideas/opinions/decisions/men/women of all these pro-lifers when I chose to terminate my pregnancy 17 years ago.
You can't kill the soul. Why don't the religious/pro-lifers ever take a thought to the next level?
re: Angela Davis: Yeah! She would be a GREAT GUEST. She was a big hit in Austin about 10 years ago speaking for the Foundation for a Compassionate Society. She was also one of my major teen heart-throbs.
You have to remember that people who oppose the right of a woman to control her own body are NOT pro-life.
1. They care nothing for the life of the host (aka Mom-to-be.)
2. Once a child becomes an actually existing person they drop it like a hot potato opposing social programs that would enhance life, such as welfare, public education through college, public housing, jobs programs that enhance the world.
3. They do not oppose US covert or overt interventions in the internal politics of other countries. These interventions have caused the deaths of citizens of these countries- Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua...Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan in horrible ways that include torture-but also the deaths of countless Americans. War is not pro-life.
4. Most of them would have supported Hitler. A lot of Americans like Henry Ford, did.
Maybe this was already mentioned, but when they talk about "viability", what does that mean? I think it should mean when the fetus could survive outside the womb by itself. Currently, you could use lots of medical technology to keep a very premature baby alive (i.e. 5 or 6 months), but at what cost? They virtually always have severe developmental issues (i.e. malformed hearts, profound mental retardation). That makes no sense to me. To insist that 24 weeks means it's "viable" is dishonest. But Thom said this wasn't about abortion so I will be quiet now.
@TAJ You have hit the real heart of the matter. These bastards don't care about the children. They are trying to enslave their Mothers via the criminalization of being a woman.
Of course every cell feels pain. thats' why a haircut is so painful.
@ Gerald Socha
"Life begins at conception through natural death. – John Paul II"
Maybe for him.
I know this is off topic, but did anyone catch MSNBC or the Daily Show last night. Fox News and the right wingers are using the East Coast Snow storms to claim that Al Gore was full of sh!+ about Gloabal Warming.
Now I haven't seen An Inconvenient Truth, so I may be wrong. But I would bet dollars to donuts, that he did discuss the environmental change in terms of extreme weather, not just hotter days in July. If this is so, how come these shows didn't grab some clips from the movie to show just how ignorant the Cons are as well as taking the opportunity to parade An Inconvenient Truth around some more.
Just seemed to me that its a missed opportunity to actually counter the bloviating morons with actual clips from the movie.
Edited:
If we follow Mr. Coleman’s assertion that all blastocysts are human life and deserve protection, and we take Thom’s example of discarding unused cells after an in-vitro procedure were they murdered? Who do we prosecute? The parents? The Doctor? The lab technician? Republicans love the torture; either logic or actual.
Life begins at conception through natural death. - John Paul II
Power versus morality!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Corruption-of-Power-Ve-by-Bettye-Jo...
America's middle class is dead!!!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Globalization-Is-Killing-T-by-Thom-Hart...
Jewish tradition says that life begins when the shoulders clear the birth canal--or when the fetus graduates from medical school, whichever comes first.
If we follow Mr. Coleman's assertion that all blastocysts are human life and deserve protection, and we take Thom’s example of discarding unused cells after an in-vitro procedure were they murdered? Who do we prosecute? The parents? The Doctor? The lab technician? Republicans love with torture; either logic or actual.
Can you imagine, I cannot imagine!!!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Can-you-imagine-living-in-by-michael-pa...
Next time someone is on talking about the sanctity of life at whatever stage, ask them how they feel about capital punishment. My guess is they are pro.....funny how that works!
Life begins when the children leave home and the dog dies!
Just beginning to un numb from Thom's announcement breaking yesterday that the prince Guiliani turned money down from and whom funded suicide bombers is owning more of FOX NEWS.
I have put these sources together for your right wing friends:
It includes links to miliant muslim media reporting this link to 27 million, and to some Brave News Stuff, and Media Matters, Project Censored, and how Fox was taken to the supreme court stacked with conservatives, who ruled fox had a right to lie under the first ammendment from the Corporation.
http://foodfascist.blogspot.com/2010/02/saudi-prince-who-funded-suicide-...
Drat- was typing too fast....It is the role of the Mother to be sure it is safe to bring a baby into the world. When she does not have the financial support or a peaceful world to bring the baby into, the baby's spirit is best kept safe in the netherworld from which it came. Natural law gives the Mother the role of determining whether it is or is not safe to bring the being into this dimension.
Better?
Does Mr. Coleman reject all medications? At some point, all drugs are experimented on humans.