Daily Topics - Thursday February 11th 2010

snow global warming imagesQuote:  Humans remain entirely atmosphere dependent, so there is no choice but to respond to extreme climatic behaviour and its many effects -- Peter Garrett

Hour One - Does Mr. Coleman wish to apologize to Arkansas's holocaust survivors? (stem cell) Curtis Coleman, GOP Candidate for U.S. Senate running against Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) www.curtiscoleman.com

Hour Two -  Isn't using the DC snow storms to debunk global warming the real Snowmagedon? William Yeatman  www.cei.org

Plus... Bill McKibben www.350.org - Blizzards and global climate change

Hour Three - Carrie Lukas www.iwf.org -  Male domination has brought us 7 years of war, isn't it time to try something else? Norway is demanding 40% of all Corporate Boards be woman and Carrie disagrees.

Plus....Professor Herb Boyd calls in from Haiti where he just met with the President of Haiti Rene Preval www.freespeech.org

Comments

Mark K (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#1

I transcribed the following tract many years ago on a Macintosh Classic when I was in college. Since Thom brought-up the subject of Thomas Paine the other day, I decided to dig it up. The Word program it was written on was so old that Word 2007 would not allow it to be opened unless I made some registry modifications. After the Revolution, Paine was regarded by many of his former comrades-in-arms as a pain in the posterior, and wanted little to do with him. His end was ill-fated, but I will let him tell the sad tale:

“I, Thomas Paine, here do solemnly submit to the american People--who owe a great Debt to my person for their very Freedom--a humble request to remember their dear Brother and embark on a Mission to recover his poor Bones and return them to their proper resting Place.

'Tis' a sad Tale of public Forgetfulness, whilst the People drool over sporting Heroes and thieving Merchants whilst memories of defenders of Liberty fly from the avaricious Mind.

'Whilst the perpetrators of Tyranny display their deceased Despots in open Forum for the oppressed masses to cast fearful Glances upon, this poor Foghorn for the public Welfare hast his poor Remains interred in some Moldering Box in an english Attic in a part Unknown.

'Reviled and scorned I was by the american People when I advanced to carry my Ax and rent a Path through the Jungle of religious Superstition, for declaiming the odious enslavement of the black Race and the plain Murder of the Native Race, damnably Perjured by the beneficiaries of my Labors, abandoned by my Friends, and at last departing from the living Penniless and Forgotten. Refused proper burial in a Cemetery, my unhappy Body was interred on a weed-run Farm--and my gravestone Profaned by the rabble of Liberty.

'For ten years Common Sense wept bitter Tears until an englishman perceived the errors of the ignorant Thoughts of my countrymen, and endeavored to restore my Repute to good Standing throughout the Known World.

'Unhappily, William Cobbett, as he was known, animated by a great oversupply of Idolatry, stole away my troubled Bones and sailed forth to england.

'Greatly distressed by my Removal from my beloved Land of Liberty, further indignities awaited me as my poor Bones were deposited in a wooden Box and ogled upon by the Gross eyes of Freakish nature.

'Mister Cobbett, who displayed such great Devotion for my life work, soon tired of my Bones. But yet desirous of constructing a Monument in my Honor, he removed locks of Hair from my poor Skull to sell to souvenir Leaches and thus raise funds for this Project. This Enterprise was for naught, however--asking for too low a Price for my Locks.

'For well nigh sixteen Years my bones languished in London Town, until Mister Cobbett received his just Desserts and expired. His son sought to auction away my Bones, but the auctioneer Refused, since not all englishmen are lacking in Humanity. Consequently my remains were left to idle Forgotten within this attic, its precise location obscured by the passage of the many Years.

'In light of all of these various and sundry Outrages, I call upon you--the ungrateful Heirs of Liberty--to remove yourselves from your tired Fundaments and refrain from empty Exalting and endeavor to conduct a Search for the Humble T. Paine's Bones and bring them hither to the land he Created.

'But in the event that my Bones are now but Dust, let it be remembered that my curse upon the Conscience of Malfeasants will not be so easily cast aside. Let the Woe of my present Disposition, my Friends, serve as a warning to you as to the fate of misemployed Liberty--that it too may crumble beneath the weight of countless lies and misdeeds that pass without heed beneath the fog of Apathy.

'If this be in truth the ultimate disposition of both my remains and my legacy at the hands of daylight Heroes who twitter upon the sound of 'worn' Honor and 'jaded' Principles, then indeed these are Times that try a dead man's Soul."

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#2

How do we not know that we have starved to death another John F Kennedy, one child dies every 5 -6 seconds

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#3

re: when life begins: I understand there's a passage in the Bible that refers to a priest "breathing the soul into the child after birth." (paraphrase).
According to that, a fetus doesnt become a human being until after birth.

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#4

By the way, Jerry Brown gets back into race for Governor of California. We need your help to make him win!

http://www.jerrybrown.org/node/605

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#5

I am okay with guests position, however, the reality is Women make the decision whether it is safe to bring another being into the world. when she doesn't feel it is safe to do so, natural law gives her that role.

Charles (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#6

Does Mr. Coleman reject all medications? At some point, all drugs are experimented on humans.

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#7

Drat- was typing too fast....It is the role of the Mother to be sure it is safe to bring a baby into the world. When she does not have the financial support or a peaceful world to bring the baby into, the baby's spirit is best kept safe in the netherworld from which it came. Natural law gives the Mother the role of determining whether it is or is not safe to bring the being into this dimension.

Better?

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#8

Just beginning to un numb from Thom's announcement breaking yesterday that the prince Guiliani turned money down from and whom funded suicide bombers is owning more of FOX NEWS.

I have put these sources together for your right wing friends:

It includes links to miliant muslim media reporting this link to 27 million, and to some Brave News Stuff, and Media Matters, Project Censored, and how Fox was taken to the supreme court stacked with conservatives, who ruled fox had a right to lie under the first ammendment from the Corporation.

http://foodfascist.blogspot.com/2010/02/saudi-prince-who-funded-suicide-...

Ken Buxton (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#9

Life begins when the children leave home and the dog dies!

jctait (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#10

Next time someone is on talking about the sanctity of life at whatever stage, ask them how they feel about capital punishment. My guess is they are pro.....funny how that works!

Gerald Socha (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#11
TAJ (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#12

If we follow Mr. Coleman's assertion that all blastocysts are human life and deserve protection, and we take Thom’s example of discarding unused cells after an in-vitro procedure were they murdered? Who do we prosecute? The parents? The Doctor? The lab technician? Republicans love with torture; either logic or actual.

Marcia (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#13

Jewish tradition says that life begins when the shoulders clear the birth canal--or when the fetus graduates from medical school, whichever comes first.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#14
Gerald Socha (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#15
Gerald Socha (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#16

Life begins at conception through natural death. - John Paul II

TAJ (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#17

Edited:

If we follow Mr. Coleman’s assertion that all blastocysts are human life and deserve protection, and we take Thom’s example of discarding unused cells after an in-vitro procedure were they murdered? Who do we prosecute? The parents? The Doctor? The lab technician? Republicans love the torture; either logic or actual.

Nels (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#18

I know this is off topic, but did anyone catch MSNBC or the Daily Show last night. Fox News and the right wingers are using the East Coast Snow storms to claim that Al Gore was full of sh!+ about Gloabal Warming.

Now I haven't seen An Inconvenient Truth, so I may be wrong. But I would bet dollars to donuts, that he did discuss the environmental change in terms of extreme weather, not just hotter days in July. If this is so, how come these shows didn't grab some clips from the movie to show just how ignorant the Cons are as well as taking the opportunity to parade An Inconvenient Truth around some more.

Just seemed to me that its a missed opportunity to actually counter the bloviating morons with actual clips from the movie.

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#19

@ Gerald Socha

"Life begins at conception through natural death. – John Paul II"

Maybe for him.

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#20

Of course every cell feels pain. thats' why a haircut is so painful.

KMH (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#21

@TAJ You have hit the real heart of the matter. These bastards don't care about the children. They are trying to enslave their Mothers via the criminalization of being a woman.

Jeanie (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#22

Maybe this was already mentioned, but when they talk about "viability", what does that mean? I think it should mean when the fetus could survive outside the womb by itself. Currently, you could use lots of medical technology to keep a very premature baby alive (i.e. 5 or 6 months), but at what cost? They virtually always have severe developmental issues (i.e. malformed hearts, profound mental retardation). That makes no sense to me. To insist that 24 weeks means it's "viable" is dishonest. But Thom said this wasn't about abortion so I will be quiet now.

Diana Frank (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#23

You have to remember that people who oppose the right of a woman to control her own body are NOT pro-life.
1. They care nothing for the life of the host (aka Mom-to-be.)
2. Once a child becomes an actually existing person they drop it like a hot potato opposing social programs that would enhance life, such as welfare, public education through college, public housing, jobs programs that enhance the world.
3. They do not oppose US covert or overt interventions in the internal politics of other countries. These interventions have caused the deaths of citizens of these countries- Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua...Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan in horrible ways that include torture-but also the deaths of countless Americans. War is not pro-life.
4. Most of them would have supported Hitler. A lot of Americans like Henry Ford, did.

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#24

re: Angela Davis: Yeah! She would be a GREAT GUEST. She was a big hit in Austin about 10 years ago speaking for the Foundation for a Compassionate Society. She was also one of my major teen heart-throbs.

Madilyn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#25

I'm glad I was protected from the ideas/opinions/decisions/men/women of all these pro-lifers when I chose to terminate my pregnancy 17 years ago.

You can't kill the soul. Why don't the religious/pro-lifers ever take a thought to the next level?

Jeanie (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#26

"Of course every cell feels pain. thats’ why a haircut is so painful."

But did you ever ask your hair how they felt?

Quark (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#27

Thom,

Angela Davis:

http://www.wcl.american.edu/faculty/adavis/

BTW, I heard her speak when I was in college back in the '70s. She was amazing.

brian a.hayes (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#28

buddhism teaches that there is no fixed boundary between an individual life and its enviroment, and the phenomenon of birth provides a good example. being a result of a combination of causes, birth will not occur if any prerequisites are out of kilter. more and more the scientific community is coming to to accept this view, as research findings indicate a strong connection between reproduction and such unrelated phenomenon as planetary movements, sunlight, the progression of the seasons, and other natural expressions of the workings of the cosmos.

Wendy (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#29

I find it interesting that some of the loudest voices against abortion rights are old white men. The abortion debate is not about the medical procedure. It's about subjugation of women.

Nels (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#30

We don't know when, how or where life began exactly. Millions perhaps Billions of years ago in some primordial soup somewhere in our oceans (maybe). At best (unless you don't believe in evolution, in which case I doubt I can find reason to discuss it further along that point of view) from the moment the first single cell life form divided and reproduced, the was the beginning of life, my life, your life, everybody's life, for life has existed in one form or another in an unbroken chain from the existence of being in that single cell to each life form that populates this planet. If you really want to get theological about it, there is more of a scientific argument that we truly are all brothers and sisters than any lofty prophet's claims.

Arguments about we may be aborting the next JFK or Hitler is pointless. Neither was born to their positions, they were shaped by their experiences and they rose to the opportunities presented them. I believe that there are several men and women out there today, that could fill such positions, but being great to one extreme or another is meaningless if the opportunity does not present itself. In other words, no single person matters more than another, its what any single person can do and does do with their life that matters.

Ruffian (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#31

rush into a burning building - 12 blastocysts in the deep freeze and 3 live, unconscious 6 year olds - can save all 12 blastocysts or all 3 children, but not both, who do you grab?

Quark (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#32

Wendy,

Absolutely! (Women also are a major percentage of the Democratic Party.)

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#33

@Jeanie: re: my hair: I can't ask it, it left me long ago. It was like a parable on "white flight". When i was a kid, I was a cotton-top. In my '30's, I noticed darker curly hair creeping -up my head from 3 sides. My fine, blond hair promptly left, leaving my crown bald. However, some of them became survivalists; springing-up in the caves and crannies of my ears and nose. Many moved to the suburbs on my back. Ironically, however, they turned dark in the process.

Julie Swenson (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#34

Just wanted to say that I totally disagree with Mr.Coleman's statement that using embryonic stem cells to slightly lengthen the life of someone is wrong..it is also inaccurate. My 5-year old will soon be treated for his cerebral palsy using stem cells. This is not a quest to "slightly lengthen' his life but to change it drastically. He is facing a lifetime of this disability, and if stem cells can help or even cure it, I feel I have an obligation to him to pursue this treatment, regardless of the controversy surrounding it. Stem cells are greatly helping children and adults with CP, MS, autism, and other neurological and central nervous system disorders. How could I face my son later in life with the knowledge that I withheld a treatment that could have saved him from a lifetime of being disabled because someone else felt it was unethical?

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#35

@Ruffian: I hate word problems! Can't you make it multiple-choice?

Mark K (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#36

Frankly, I'd be less concerned about what a GOP candidate from Arkansas is thinking in regards to abortion than which way the wind is blowing Anthony Kennedy's sails these days. In regard to why "buy American" failed to pass the Senate, and everyone should know this, is because the Republicans in the south wanted to protect foreign car manufacturers with production plants in their states.

Jeanie (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#37

Isn't saying a man should have no say in discussing abortion or reproductive issues sort of like saying a woman can have no opinion in anything relating to erectile dysfunction or medications for it? I don't think there's anything wrong in hearing men's opinions since men are intelligent and even though they can't get pregnant themselves, they do have wives, sisters, daughters, etc. and so things relating to this issue does affect them. Although I don't want men making laws about my reproduction, as I'm sure men don't want women preventing them from having Viagra. But the discussion is important, at least in terms of getting men to realize (like women) their role in preventing unwanted pregnancies.

Jeanie (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#38

Harry, I respect all your hairs, wherever they may be.

Jeanie (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#39

Ruffian, make it even more dramatic. 200,000 blastocysts and one 2 year old. I remember hearing on the radio about someone posing this to a pro-lifer, and they couldn't answer.

John P (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#40

Regarding stem cells, my sentiment is a rift off of Thoms "viable fetus" perspective:

As a world culture, despite the danger of appearing too removed and logical (though only to ourselves), we must not focus solely on the individuality of the potential life, but also, the state of affairs that potential (stem cell or human) is entering into, and what that potential means to the whole (accepting the potential as a part of the whole).

When we approach "life potential" we often think of it as at first "just another piece of the wide world of biology", then eventually, a human, and somehow, "separate". I think we need to brake down the concept of the human as separate (theology aside), and that would allow us to approach advances like this in a more practical matter.

Where do stem cells fit within the larger human question?

If the stem cells are being used for toward the persistence of our collective ethic (which in my mind are conceptual, biological, and individual harmony and persistence) then they should be propagated.

In this case, I believe stem cells have amazing potential regarding the ethic of the human race.

Lets be a "we" society, not a "me" one!

Our Founding Truth (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#41

KMH said..I am okay with guests position, however, the reality is Women make the decision whether it is safe to bring another being into the world. when she doesn’t feel it is safe to do so, natural law gives her that role.>

Killing a baby is against the Laws of Nature.

Thomas Jode (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#42

There are just two Laws of Thermodynamics, aren't there?

John P (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#43

Our Founding Truth: Nature kills babies all the time, it's a human moral that preserves the sanctity of children.

harry ashburn (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#44

@Thomas: You're right, 2 Laws:

1. Mom turns thermostat up.
2. Dad turns thermostat down.

Rebecca (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#45

Thom,

I am a sci-fi junkie, and your mentions of Jack Vance and Carl Sagan, I’m assuming you are at least a fan. I happened upon a podcast done by an Emory University professor that you might be intereted in giving a quick listen to:

http://www.courtneybrown.com/classes/podcasts.html

Specifically, the Science Fiction and Politics class. I was listening to the classes on “The Forever War,” (my favorite book of all time) where the professor was comparing the war in the novel to the Vietnam War to the Iraq war (the podcast was taped in 2004, I think). I found a lot of the points he was making quite fascinating and still quite pertinant.

I know you are always looking for different perspectives and ways of presenting things, and this is just one more. The professor might make an interesting guest one day, and at the very least, he presents one more way to look at our recent history and politics, and one more set of parallels to draw upon, this time fictional.

Thomas Jode (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#46

To Our Founding Truth:
Killing a baby, let alone a stem cell, is neither against the Laws of Nature or the Law of Life. This is a Human Cultural-Moral issue that we as a culture must come to terms with.

Quark (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#47

Never a Populist

Richard Wolffe, who wrote the book Renegade about Barack Obama, said on MSNBC this morning, when asked about Obama's statement on bankers' huge bonuses (that he did not “begrudge people success or wealth,” as it was “part of the free-market system"), "Obama was never a populist."

I guess that says it all. Get it while you can...

Obama needs a HUGE push-back from us. 'Too bad we have to postpone calling the White House 'til Washington gets shoveled out --- next week.

Mugsy (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#48

Thom, I must take issue with your guest who said that "the snowstorm in the NEast is no more evidence of global warming that it is evidence against global warming." That's just plain wrong.

All that moisture is coming from El Nino, just off the Pacific coast of South America, where it currently is Summer. All that excess moisture is due to Global Warming.

Rio is current experiencing its warmest Summer in 50 years:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100210/wl_afp/brazilweatherheatwave_201002...

Quark (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#49

Global Warming

Overheating produced more ocean evaporation, putting more moisture into the atmosphere. What was the major component of the recent huge snowstorm on the Atlantic coast? MORE MOISTURE IN THE ATMOSPHERE!

Quark (not verified) 10 years 32 weeks ago
#50

Oops --- ditto, Mugsy!

Trump's Latest Failure Could Kill 6 million Americans

Thom plus logo Although they haven't yet publicly acknowledged it in such stark terms, it's clear now that the Trump administration has decided pursue a herd immunity strategy to deal with the coronavirus.

Trump's new White House advisor on coronavirus, Scott Atlas, has said it on numerous occasions in multiple venues, and now our Attorney General, Bill Barr, is trying to argue that lockdowns to prevent the spread of the virus are as bad as slavery. Trying to achieve herd immunity in the United States against the coronavirus, assuming it's even possible, would involve between two and 6 million Americans dying.
From The Thom Hartmann Reader:
"Thom Hartmann is a literary descendent of Ben Franklin and Tom Paine. His unflinching observations and deep passion inspire us to explore contemporary culture, politics, and economics; challenge us to face the facts of the societies we are creating; and empower us to demand a better world for our children and grandchildren."
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From Screwed:
"I think many of us recognize that for all but the wealthiest, life in America is getting increasingly hard. Screwed explores why, showing how this is no accidental process, but rather the product of conscious political choices, choices we can change with enough courage and commitment. Like all of Thom’s great work, it helps show us the way forward."
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From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"If you wonder why and when giant corporations got the power to reign supreme over us, here’s the story."
Jim Hightower, national radio commentator and author of Swim Against the Current