Thom, if you believe that climate change is purely anthroprogenic then the only way to start addressing it is by phasing out the biggest users of fossil fuels. The biggest user in the world is the American military. You claim the Pentagon understands global warming. If so ,why do we have so many military bases world -wide who spend most of their time "training" by driving all their vehicles , flying their aircraft, and operating their ships most hours of the day. Right now NATO is undertaking military exercises in the Baltic for no reason whatsoever. The pointless bombing in the Middle East and the supply of military hardware all over the world adds to the use of fossil fuels.
My point is that unless the US military is phased out immediately and in turn all militaries there is no point trying to get the average person to take global warming seriously. There is not one American politicain prepared to take on the Military Industrial complex including Bernie Sanders. He in fact supports the military. I am a believer in global warming but do not believe we will do anything about it. Fortunately, I am also aware of the geologic record and the many mass extictions of the past. I do not fear for the world. it will take care of itself and after we have polluted it to the point of no return it will turn on us.We will become just another extinction marked by a line in the rock record. The only difference between our extinction and the others will be the imbedded bits of plastic.
In Texas it takes 620 hours of training to become a peace office and given a gun, It takes1500 hours of training to become a hair dresser and given a blow dyer. This fact is really scary.
Yes, I'm familliar with Dane Wigg-(ing? ..in) ..ton's work. He is a very bright man. I think the corporate left AND right did a brilliant job of throwing the likes of Alex Jones and Glen Beck into the works after 9/11... tying truth to out-and-out rediculous sounding theories pitched as fact. Think about how rediculous and oxymoronic it is to be called a "Truther"? I hope to be known as one who tells the truth! Sometimes, the left is as closed-minded as the right.
yes, and hundred's more. I've done research now for 5 months 10 to 12 hours a day. My favorite website geoengineeringwatch.org is the best I've seen. The fight for right now is to stop this for at least 5 years so that they can get accurate readings of global warming. I can't remember off the top of my head but there is a big summit meeting in Paris in July concerning global warming and there are geo engineering representives and scientists that are attending and speaking. What will happen who knows.
I agree, but think Thom is never going to go there... he'd lose insider status in D.C. ...and, well, he needs it! We need him to have it! He's treading on thin ice as it is, I'll bet... I trust you've seen "What in the World are they spraying" ?
I have written Tom 3 different times on the subject of Geo Engineering, weather modicfication. They have been spraying our skies for over 40 years fighting the suppose "global warming". The aerosol spraying by military jets has esculated for the past 10 year because of modern technology and they spray 24/7 globally. This aerosol spraying creates artificial haze, cloudiness, clouds and complete overcast skies. I have sent Tom several photos of these aerosol spraying that look like a line of toothpaste that stretch across the sky for miles. Each one expands and spread like sheets of clouds and remain for several days and can travel up to 18,000 miles. I have hundreds and hundreds of photos and videos of these Jets aerosol spraying right over my house. There are millions of people here in America and from around the globe that post photos and videos of these jets spraying and the MESS they make in the sky. I have more days of my sun covered and no blue skies than the opposite. Nobody takes the time to "LOOK UP" at what is going on their sky. It is highly toxic and made with nano size particles of metals, to reflect the rays of the sun upward. YOUR breathing it 24 hours a day. They have the power to control weather and create it by using HARRP and CERN. This is why all the extreme weather, it's literally weather warfare going on right above your heads. And they are deliberately melting the Icebergs for oil. They can create drought, flooding, tonados, hail, snow where ever they want. PLEASE, PLEASE LOOK UP, WATCH YOUR SKIES EXPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN A HIGHLY POPULATED AREA BECAUSE YOU WILL SEE THEM. This is so horrific and such a crimal act!! GEO ENGINEERING. I'm no expert but I know what I see!!
winterglas ... uhh how many billions...or even trillions of the black budget has the Pentagon lost track of? ...Crazy Alert... the .01% have space ships! ..or inner-spaceships ..or... ? USOs!
or worse... PIGEONS!! (Get it Thom? 'Pig" .. for 'eons' ?
Dr. Econ -- I thought Bill Gates made his money by hiring the best lawyers around. He then stole the ideas of start-up companies that had not become big enough. For those that were to0 big, he bought them. He then proceeded to commit perjury saying he could not separate his operating systems from the application software. Bill Clinton was going after Microsoft with anti-trust laws.
W came in and said, I love billionaires and dropped the pursuit of justice. Germany didn't and fined Microsoft for $600 million.
Dr. Econ -- Why don't you tell us what you think the economy is? As a guide the economist who came up with the GDP said never to use the GDP to measure the economy.
I already mentioned the 4 metrics that I think should be used to measure the economy. Do you not agree? I think a fair tax structure would be one that improves the economy.
Dr Econ -- Using Wikipedia as reference is a good way for people not to believe anything you say. Wikipedia is the same place that had Paul Revere fighting for the British.
Don't the deniers realize that THEIR children will be affected just like the rest of us? Or do they have another planet and a secret fleet of space ships?
Michael Mann, a frequent guest on this program and one of the world’s leading climate scientists, estimates that we only have until 2036 -- 21 years -- to prevent the Earth’s temperature from rising 2 degrees Celsius, the standard cutoff point for “acceptable” levels of warming.
At least we are making some progress, 14 years ago it was stated we only had untill 2011.
Wow! A fossil fuel free world! One can always hope! Something tells me if SHAFTA goes through, we'll have to adapt as a species to learn how to breath natural gas, swim in nuclear waste, eat coal and drink oil. Call your representative!
David32, you think these fines that amount to 1 day's profit are draconian? Ha!
You could just as easily say people don't pay taxes, corporations do, because higher personal taxes mean people need a higher gross pay, passing the cost onto their employers. It goes in a cycle, and you're ignoring half of it.
Couldn't agree more. Money needs to be removed from politics, especially big dollar corporate money thanks to "Citizens United" misruling. However, it's not going to happen without a bare knuckles fight to the finish. Money controls both sides of the aisles.It's no secret. That's one reason we are no longer a democratic republic, but instead, an oligrachy..and these people aren't going to say "sorry" and hand the power and control back to the people. It will have to be pried from their hands. In addition to real finance reform, we need real term limits and an independent body to handle district realigning at the federal and state levels.
Any body will be much better for America than anyone from the Tealiban Bagger Terrorist Controlled Republicans that are wholly owned by big money, and it seems that lately they don't even try to hide they are only working for their big money owners and not We The People. Ronnie Raygun was the start of the Wholly Owned member of the Big Money Owners Club, big money bought him the governors job in Calif. and then the POTUS job, and the big money groups saw how easy it was to get total control of the GOP they have continued to buy politicians from cities administrators on up, but the American people are smart enough to not allow them to buy the POTUS, and maybe 2016 the American people will rise up and go vote in mass numbers and take many of the senators and house members out and into early retirement.
George Bush 2 is the biggest appeaser in American History. First, he said, " they hate us because we are free", and next, he rammed through the Patriiot Act.
So lets make the little people pay even more by shifting taxes to corporate tax collectors. When are we going to get it through our thick skulls that corporations/businesses DON'T PAY TAXES, their customers do!!!! You want to make the tax system fair, tax the wealthy based on their net worth and scrap the capital gains tax. I'd suggest starting at 50% of net worth over 1 million.
Moreover stop these draconian fines for corporate malfeasance that the little people end up paying and start locking the leaders up. As a matter of fact instead on naming corporations name the human leaders in press announcements. Its time we know who the real culprits are.
Rather than fines on corporations, paid by the little people, fine the corporate leaders along with their jail time. How about making banks forgive all personal credit card debt, the little people would benefit the most and what a economic stimulus it would be.
Any chance of these ideas catching on, probably not.
“The rich are the most discriminated-against minority in the world. Openly or covertly, everybody hates the rich because, openly or covertly, everybody envies the rich. Me, I love the rich. Somebody has to love them. Sure, a lot o’ rich people are assholes, but believe me, a lot o’ poor people are assholes, too, and an asshole with money can at least pay for his own drinks.” ― Tom Robbins, Jitterbug Perfume
2950-10k writes: "The rich do not create jobs. a fair and moral economy, one in which the vast majority has plenty of money to spend, does."
First, the first part of that is obviously false, because there are some rich people who sell to rich people. Thus, the statement 'Some rich people create jobs' is true, and the statement "The rich do not create jobs" is false.
Employers actually have people create jobs descriptions, review qualificiations, post the jobs on the internet, then interview and select candidates. Because some employers are rich, that statement is not only false, but absurd. The employer is the agent responsible for hiring and creating the job.
However, it is true that the employer cannot create the job unless there is demand for the products the job produces. So, you could say 'The rich and the poor create jobs', but you cannot say 'The rich do not create jobs'. The latter is a nonsensical statement.
What would you say if someone said 'Oxygen does not create water'? Most people would think is a pretty stupid thing to say.
Now, the second part "a fair and moral economy, one in which the vast majority has plenty of money to spend, does." is also false. Every economy from North Korea to China to the US has jobs. The most equal to the most unequal. In all these places, many rich people are selling things to many poor people. Unfortunately, that is the way economics works.
c. curie, w1ders etc -- The constitution says you are the ones to get rid of them. Go Bernie.
johnangus
I agree.
You would like Carolyn Baker's site. Check out Reimagining Prosperity...
Thom, if you believe that climate change is purely anthroprogenic then the only way to start addressing it is by phasing out the biggest users of fossil fuels. The biggest user in the world is the American military. You claim the Pentagon understands global warming. If so ,why do we have so many military bases world -wide who spend most of their time "training" by driving all their vehicles , flying their aircraft, and operating their ships most hours of the day. Right now NATO is undertaking military exercises in the Baltic for no reason whatsoever. The pointless bombing in the Middle East and the supply of military hardware all over the world adds to the use of fossil fuels.
My point is that unless the US military is phased out immediately and in turn all militaries there is no point trying to get the average person to take global warming seriously. There is not one American politicain prepared to take on the Military Industrial complex including Bernie Sanders. He in fact supports the military. I am a believer in global warming but do not believe we will do anything about it. Fortunately, I am also aware of the geologic record and the many mass extictions of the past. I do not fear for the world. it will take care of itself and after we have polluted it to the point of no return it will turn on us.We will become just another extinction marked by a line in the rock record. The only difference between our extinction and the others will be the imbedded bits of plastic.
In Texas it takes 620 hours of training to become a peace office and given a gun, It takes1500 hours of training to become a hair dresser and given a blow dyer. This fact is really scary.
Yes, I'm familliar with Dane Wigg-(ing? ..in) ..ton's work. He is a very bright man. I think the corporate left AND right did a brilliant job of throwing the likes of Alex Jones and Glen Beck into the works after 9/11... tying truth to out-and-out rediculous sounding theories pitched as fact. Think about how rediculous and oxymoronic it is to be called a "Truther"? I hope to be known as one who tells the truth! Sometimes, the left is as closed-minded as the right.
yes, and hundred's more. I've done research now for 5 months 10 to 12 hours a day. My favorite website geoengineeringwatch.org is the best I've seen. The fight for right now is to stop this for at least 5 years so that they can get accurate readings of global warming. I can't remember off the top of my head but there is a big summit meeting in Paris in July concerning global warming and there are geo engineering representives and scientists that are attending and speaking. What will happen who knows.
tottcatering
I agree, but think Thom is never going to go there... he'd lose insider status in D.C. ...and, well, he needs it! We need him to have it! He's treading on thin ice as it is, I'll bet... I trust you've seen "What in the World are they spraying" ?
I have written Tom 3 different times on the subject of Geo Engineering, weather modicfication. They have been spraying our skies for over 40 years fighting the suppose "global warming". The aerosol spraying by military jets has esculated for the past 10 year because of modern technology and they spray 24/7 globally. This aerosol spraying creates artificial haze, cloudiness, clouds and complete overcast skies. I have sent Tom several photos of these aerosol spraying that look like a line of toothpaste that stretch across the sky for miles. Each one expands and spread like sheets of clouds and remain for several days and can travel up to 18,000 miles. I have hundreds and hundreds of photos and videos of these Jets aerosol spraying right over my house. There are millions of people here in America and from around the globe that post photos and videos of these jets spraying and the MESS they make in the sky. I have more days of my sun covered and no blue skies than the opposite. Nobody takes the time to "LOOK UP" at what is going on their sky. It is highly toxic and made with nano size particles of metals, to reflect the rays of the sun upward. YOUR breathing it 24 hours a day. They have the power to control weather and create it by using HARRP and CERN. This is why all the extreme weather, it's literally weather warfare going on right above your heads. And they are deliberately melting the Icebergs for oil. They can create drought, flooding, tonados, hail, snow where ever they want. PLEASE, PLEASE LOOK UP, WATCH YOUR SKIES EXPECIALLY IF YOU LIVE IN A HIGHLY POPULATED AREA BECAUSE YOU WILL SEE THEM. This is so horrific and such a crimal act!! GEO ENGINEERING. I'm no expert but I know what I see!!
winterglas ... uhh how many billions...or even trillions of the black budget has the Pentagon lost track of? ...Crazy Alert... the .01% have space ships! ..or inner-spaceships ..or... ? USOs!
or worse... PIGEONS!! (Get it Thom? 'Pig" .. for 'eons' ?
Dr. Econ -- I thought Bill Gates made his money by hiring the best lawyers around. He then stole the ideas of start-up companies that had not become big enough. For those that were to0 big, he bought them. He then proceeded to commit perjury saying he could not separate his operating systems from the application software. Bill Clinton was going after Microsoft with anti-trust laws.
W came in and said, I love billionaires and dropped the pursuit of justice. Germany didn't and fined Microsoft for $600 million.
Dr. Econ -- Why don't you tell us what you think the economy is? As a guide the economist who came up with the GDP said never to use the GDP to measure the economy.
I already mentioned the 4 metrics that I think should be used to measure the economy. Do you not agree? I think a fair tax structure would be one that improves the economy.
Dr Econ -- Using Wikipedia as reference is a good way for people not to believe anything you say. Wikipedia is the same place that had Paul Revere fighting for the British.
Here's a different view on all this. M. Glennon is not a conspiracy theorist; he was legal counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, as well as consultant to various congressional committes. "Vote all you want. The secret government won't change." https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html
gumball -- Where did you get the 14 years from? If it was from the same group, that would be impressive.
The link you provide is very strange. It says it was edited in 2001, yet it talks about a heat wave in 2003.
Don't the deniers realize that THEIR children will be affected just like the rest of us? Or do they have another planet and a secret fleet of space ships?
Michael Mann, a frequent guest on this program and one of the world’s leading climate scientists, estimates that we only have until 2036 -- 21 years -- to prevent the Earth’s temperature from rising 2 degrees Celsius, the standard cutoff point for “acceptable” levels of warming.
At least we are making some progress, 14 years ago it was stated we only had untill 2011.
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/global-warming-the-science
Wow! A fossil fuel free world! One can always hope! Something tells me if SHAFTA goes through, we'll have to adapt as a species to learn how to breath natural gas, swim in nuclear waste, eat coal and drink oil. Call your representative!
FYI, A pretty fair rant on the TPP: Treasonous Preparation for the Plummet in which Thom is mentioned..
David32, you think these fines that amount to 1 day's profit are draconian? Ha!
You could just as easily say people don't pay taxes, corporations do, because higher personal taxes mean people need a higher gross pay, passing the cost onto their employers. It goes in a cycle, and you're ignoring half of it.
Couldn't agree more. Money needs to be removed from politics, especially big dollar corporate money thanks to "Citizens United" misruling. However, it's not going to happen without a bare knuckles fight to the finish. Money controls both sides of the aisles.It's no secret. That's one reason we are no longer a democratic republic, but instead, an oligrachy..and these people aren't going to say "sorry" and hand the power and control back to the people. It will have to be pried from their hands. In addition to real finance reform, we need real term limits and an independent body to handle district realigning at the federal and state levels.
Any body will be much better for America than anyone from the Tealiban Bagger Terrorist Controlled Republicans that are wholly owned by big money, and it seems that lately they don't even try to hide they are only working for their big money owners and not We The People. Ronnie Raygun was the start of the Wholly Owned member of the Big Money Owners Club, big money bought him the governors job in Calif. and then the POTUS job, and the big money groups saw how easy it was to get total control of the GOP they have continued to buy politicians from cities administrators on up, but the American people are smart enough to not allow them to buy the POTUS, and maybe 2016 the American people will rise up and go vote in mass numbers and take many of the senators and house members out and into early retirement.
George Bush 2 is the biggest appeaser in American History. First, he said, " they hate us because we are free", and next, he rammed through the Patriiot Act.
So lets make the little people pay even more by shifting taxes to corporate tax collectors. When are we going to get it through our thick skulls that corporations/businesses DON'T PAY TAXES, their customers do!!!! You want to make the tax system fair, tax the wealthy based on their net worth and scrap the capital gains tax. I'd suggest starting at 50% of net worth over 1 million.
Moreover stop these draconian fines for corporate malfeasance that the little people end up paying and start locking the leaders up. As a matter of fact instead on naming corporations name the human leaders in press announcements. Its time we know who the real culprits are.
Rather than fines on corporations, paid by the little people, fine the corporate leaders along with their jail time. How about making banks forgive all personal credit card debt, the little people would benefit the most and what a economic stimulus it would be.
Any chance of these ideas catching on, probably not.
“The rich are the most discriminated-against minority in the world. Openly or covertly, everybody hates the rich because, openly or covertly, everybody envies the rich. Me, I love the rich. Somebody has to love them. Sure, a lot o’ rich people are assholes, but believe me, a lot o’ poor people are assholes, too, and an asshole with money can at least pay for his own drinks.”
― Tom Robbins, Jitterbug Perfume
2950-10k writes: "The rich do not create jobs. a fair and moral economy, one in which the vast majority has plenty of money to spend, does."
First, the first part of that is obviously false, because there are some rich people who sell to rich people. Thus, the statement 'Some rich people create jobs' is true, and the statement "The rich do not create jobs" is false.
Employers actually have people create jobs descriptions, review qualificiations, post the jobs on the internet, then interview and select candidates. Because some employers are rich, that statement is not only false, but absurd. The employer is the agent responsible for hiring and creating the job.
However, it is true that the employer cannot create the job unless there is demand for the products the job produces. So, you could say 'The rich and the poor create jobs', but you cannot say 'The rich do not create jobs'. The latter is a nonsensical statement.
What would you say if someone said 'Oxygen does not create water'? Most people would think is a pretty stupid thing to say.
Now, the second part "a fair and moral economy, one in which the vast majority has plenty of money to spend, does." is also false. Every economy from North Korea to China to the US has jobs. The most equal to the most unequal. In all these places, many rich people are selling things to many poor people. Unfortunately, that is the way economics works.
I write: "The fact is that the government is a massive system to redistribute wealth in the way of insurance to the poor and middle class"
2950-10k writes: "the top one percent own more than half of the country's wealth"
I agree with both statements. Do you?
I am a liberal, but not a liar.