Fabulous rant, Alice! And hey! -- how about all the abortions resulting from GOPers' free Viagra pills? How come priests and GOPers who force abortions on their mistresses and rape victims never get arrested, but women who suffer miscarriages now do decades in jail just for depriving Matt's pet peds of fresh molestable altar boys? Catholic Sister Sosefina only got four years for her infanticide, but "heretic" Hindu Purvi Patel in Indiana got 20-40 years for a MISCARRIAGE! Why are infanticides by promiscuous nuns harmless misdemeanors, but stillbirths by sickly impoverished women federal homicides? And where is Matt's outrage over "anti-contraception" missionary nuns popping birth control pills to avoid rape pregnancies?

Mr. "Mighty Morals" Matt thinks he can blame and shame us wised-up Catholic abuse survivors into overlooking his hypocrisy cult's mass graves of holy genocides, matricides and infanticides while he fulminates over the "baby killing" pill poppers of Hobby Lobby! -- never mind that HIS denial of contraception directly shamed Litter Sister Oppressing the Poor Sosefina Amoa from Samoa into smothering her secret out of wedlock newborn right after she arrived at her new convent in Washington, DC a couple years ago! Morally bankrupt Matt thinks infanticide is less sinful than using contraception! This same depraved theology is why the Vatican ordered German Catholics to vote for anti-abortion Catholic Hitler!

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/05/sosefina-amoa-woman-who-killed-her-...

Years ago, when the establishment of NAFTA was being debated, I supported the legislation, believing that trade, especially with Mexico, would allow us as a wealthy U.S. economy to create a more level playing field: The anticipated increase in the Mexican standard of living would benefit the people of that nation without significant economic/social pain to those of us in the U.S. We could "share our wealth" and the economic inequality between Mexico and the U.S. would be lessened. We could all enjoy a decent standard of living. Ditto Canada.

How naive I was to think that the actual provisions of NAFTA would ever result in my idealized expectations!

Today, we American progressives rightly decry the outrageous inequality of income and opportunity within our own society. And still I continue to imagine what our world would be like if the U.S. (and other established economies) were not so very wealthy as compared with nations where workers earn 20 or 30 cents an hour. A significant rise in the global standard of living could be achieved, it would seem, without destroying our own well-being. (Note: because the security of our own 99% has already been substantially eroded, the logic of this argument becomes somewhat hazy, but I hope my general point is clear.)

My question: what would a trade agreement -- one that was truly fair to all stakeholders -- look like?

It would, of course, give much more interest to the workers of the various nations -- at the expense of the rule of the corporate elite. Sustainability of the environment would be foundational. And there are so many other considerations that a progressive group-think could put forward.

Perhaps my musing is just a pipe dream, but if we want to counter TPP (whether in the short term -- perhaps unreasonable at this point -- or over the long haul) we need to advocate for healthy trade rather than merely insist that TPP is not the answer.

Clearly, TPP needs to be stopped. Now. But if we are able to accomplish that much, what comes next? How do we craft a trade agreement that benefits the people of America while helping to grow markets and production in other nations that will allow people there to share a decent standard of living?

Ideas welcome. Ideas sorely needed.

Loren Bliss, Aliceinwonderland, and Mark J. Saulys ~ After giving the real question of this thread some careful thought I think I have a couple of suggestions I'd like to toss out there. There are two things you've said, Mark, that I think really ring true; however, I'd like to expand on them a bit.

You've mentioned that the solution to our social problems might be in establishing a true form of social democracy; because, that is what has worked best in pre industrial antiquity. I agree; and, I think I might know how to do that.

First, our problem right now is industrialization. It has taken away from our simple agrarian based society and moved it from a agricultural Gemeinschaft model to an industrialized Gesellschaft mode. I believe that most of the ills from this change has been brought about from the easy money available from the fossil fuels industry. The first thing we need to do is to change that back. Fossil fuels MUST BE BANNED! We need to become a green society that relies more on agriculture, and the means to produce it, than on industry.Industry must become dependent upon agriculture. Since that conversion is also vital in our efforts to combat climate change, it should be a rather easy, if not inevitable, cycle of human progress to make that change happen. Eventually, at least.

Secondly, how do we bring about a democratic socialistic utopia in a modern high tech and population dense society? Well, I think the solution to that question lies in the question. At this point in our technological advancement, we are at a stage where traditional democratic government forms are really obsolete. Soon, technology will enable every citizen to vote online electronically from the comfort of their own homes. Public access points can be set up in public venues that can even accommodate the homeless--if there still exists homeless in the future; which, I highly doubt there will be. A new form of democratic socialist government that directly involves the citizens for final approval of legislation eliminates the "importance" of elected officials. In this system, our elected officials will only serve to gather information and write and submit proposals for public scrutiny and vote. They will be held directly accountable to every voter for every action. There will be no need for voter ID laws either because thanks to technology and fingerprint, retinal, and, eventually, DNA scans, everyone will always carry a positive ID with them everywhere. Every vote will be counted and every voter will be accounted for. Power to the People never before was so potentially possible as it is today.

It is my firm belief and hope that with those two issues factored into the equation, a sound and functional democratic socialist government of the future could be created that would make it quite impossible for corporate fascist influences to flourish like they currently do. In fact, they too, along with the fossil fuel industry, will become a thing of the past. A story parents tell their children to frighten them into behaving. Once we eliminate greed from the equation, everything else will fall into line like dominos.

Reply to #36: Mark, thanks for your concern. My absence was not due to illness or personal hardship.

I've been writing letters to the editor of our local paper, which has had me very preoccupied over the past several weeks. And in the accompanying blogs, I'm slugging it out with local yahoos over this liquified natural gas (LNG) export terminal and pipeline that Veresen (a Canadian fossil fuel company), wants to plunk down in the middle of Coos County, Oregon where I live. I'm vehemently opposed to it, like lots of other folks around here. In addition to the environmental, health & safety issues this raises, I’m very upset over Veresen and their subcontractors threatening some of our neighbors with land theft (excuse me- "eminent domain".) From my perspective, what threatens them undermines us all. Coos County residents opposed to the project have put plenty of emphasis on health & safety while the issue of land theft has been largely neglected. I'm determined to fill that gap in the dialogue, because it is too important an issue to ignore.

I’m presently submitting a series of letters to the editor of The World’s forum column, each profiling a different landowner under siege from these goddam pigs. Each letter is based on a letter to FERC by one such landowner. Since I haven't obtained permission to tell their stories, I change names and mask identities to guard their privacy. But all other details are authentic. And the threats these people face are ugly: catastrophic land erosion, pollution, the risk of pipe leaks and explosions... not to mention the loss of people’s water sources via erosion and pollution. It's the stuff nightmares are made of.

Meanwhile the LNG huggin’ yahoos I've been debating on these blogs are bloody delusional. They keep insisting this will be the answer to all Coos County's financial troubles! Riiiiiiiight. I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least some of them were paid shills for Veresen, because they never miss a beat. Whenever a letter is published having anything to do with LNG, especially if it's against this proposed project, those guys are on it like brown on shit. Anyone opposed to the project can expect to be denigrated by them with insults, condescention and dismissive remarks. That's all they've got to offer, because they've no facts to substantiate their claims. They respond to these horror stories I’ve chronicled with this too-bad-so-sad attitude.

I may not have big bucks or political clout, but I’ve got enough writing & debating skills to give ‘em a run for their money. I’ve made it my mission to be a perpetual thorn in their sides, shining some light through the holes in their arguments while dishing back some of the crap they dish out. I'd like to think it's helped embolden others to stand up to them as well.

Anyway Mark, that’s what I’ve been up to. My absence from Thom’s website was never meant to be forever. But thanks for asking, and for caring enough to ask. That's very kind of you, and I don't take kindness for granted. - Aliceinplunderland

Employers don't have a right to decide for their employees what their religious values are to be.

And no employers are doing that. They're just saying that they aren't going to write the check to the provider of the services they deem immoral. The employee can do whatever they want with their money. But this isn't the employee's money - it's the employers.

Do you think Hindu employers should be able to require vegetarianism of their employees?

No. But should those Hindu employers be forced to swipe their credit card at the McDonalds checkout for their employees? No.

As with the HobbyLobby case, the employers should only be required to pay wages - money, that is - to their employees. And the employees can do whatever they want with that money. The government's insistance that the employers also provide a service which directly contradicts the employee's morals is the problem.

We could come up with examples all day of other things that are immoral to some that employers shouldn't have to pay for, but the employees can buy all they want with their own money. Gun, prostitutes (in some places), marijuana (in some places), etc...

The issue is not, and never has been, about what the employees do when not at work. It's about who has to directly pay for it. That is, who is writing the check/swiping the credit card for these things?

Sports gambling is considered a sin by my employer - the Archdiocese of Chicago. I do it anyway. They pay me, and I use that pay to bet on the Bears from time to time. They are not, however, forced by the government to place those bets for me.

That's the difference.

Matt, we're not intolerant, we think everyone should be able to choose their moral convictions, for THEMSELVES, not for someone else. Gay conversion therapy should be available for consenting adults.
Alice, good to hear from you. You haven't been around, was hoping you were alright.

Matt, you don't understand separation of church and state. Employers don't have a right to decide for their employees what their religious values are to be. The employer doesn't have to practice birth control in their own lives but must provide inclusive healthcare for all their employees that provides for all licit options.
Do you think Hindu employers should be able to require vegetarianism of their employees? I am an ethical vegetarian myself but I don'think so.
Gay conversion therapy is, I think, abusive and should be banned everywhere.

Thom, did you see today MSNC broadcast of The Ed Show (4/23/2015)….. Ed was interviewing Senator Bernie Sanders, interrupted the Senator to bring live coverage of the President’s continued remarks on the TPP, including the President subtle dig on Ed Schultz….however, Ed Schultz loudly responded…basically telling the President, that he, Obama, is throwing Middle Class America under the bus, considering they worked very hard and long to get him (the President) into office in 2008/re-elected in 2012. "Shame on you, Mr. President" is what Ed should have also said unequivocally.

If the TPP is so beneficial for America, why did it take Wiki Leaks to reveal segments of the proposal; why was Congress not allowed to discuss or even read the Agreement before voting on it until recently; and now, the public is left to second guess what's in the technical language; why was the so-called Agreement created in a cloak of secrecy and why no amendments allowed; why only an Up or Down vote by Congress; if most Republicans are in favor with the President, Democrats not so much - what does that tell you in itself; isn't the TPP really a Treaty and not just an business agreement among a few nations?

The real truth – Senator Warren is correct, the POTUS wrong.

Matt, only pedophile priests and adulterous wife dumpers like Newt Gingrich are outraged that women no longer die young in droves from splitting their lady parts by popping out 20-30 kids each. Although contraception from hundreds of plants has been around forever, and abortion for obstructed labor is the world's oldest medical procedure, maternal safety only got criminalized when pedophile priests hijacked your cult. Obstetric bladder and bowel fistulas are the REAL reason your cult banned priests' marriages to "piles of dung" MOTHERS. Fistulas only became somewhat fixasble 150 years ago because of Dr. Marion Sims's gruesome surgical experiments on slave women. Even so, adult diapers are primarily sold to women ruined by childbirth. Why do you think most "pro-lfe" GOPers like Randall Terry cheat on and divorce their brood mares? My mom suffered childbirth-caused incontinence, and fraudulent UNnatural Family Cramming guaranteed that her two and three ovulations per month would result in her "unplanned" "sons" with intersex XXY Klinefelter Syndrome. Catholic NFP fools have the most intersex gay children since more than one sperm can fertilize aging eggs, opposite sex twins can fuse into intersex singletons, and younger children from large families have opposite sex microchimerism DNA from older siblings. Because of these bankrupting medical complications from unwanted pregnancies ususally cause divorce and spousal abuse, and since most anti-contraception scolds are hypocrite users, your cult does not have the right to commit cult-based Munchausen by Proxy medical abuse and neglect of employees just because your cult is run by pedophile Munchausen by Proxy perps. Your cult is immoral and criminal, and we are not your incubating slaves.

Alice, that system was working great until the government stepped in and said HobbyLobby MUST not only pay wages to their voluntary employees, but must also provide health insurance. That alone wouldn't have been a problem either, until the government also said that health insurance MUST cover birth control.

Before the courts ruled in HobbyLobby's favor, the owners of HobbyLobby offered to increase their employee's wages to cover the cost of uncovered birth control. But the government said no.

The employees aren't writing the checks to the insurance company - the owners of the insured company are. Therein lies the moral dilemma for the owners.

Had the government said employers must provide health insurance, OR increase wages so that employees can find their own health insurance, this moral issue wouldn't exist.

It's the intolerance of the left - they cannot tolerate that someone might have a moral problem with something that they do not think is immoral - that brought this issue to the courts.

Here, Matt; I'll make it REAL simple for you. Employers pay employees for their work. PERIOD. What the employee does with her earnings is her own goddam business.