April 2 2009

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Topic: "One Party Classroom: How Radical horowitz-images at America's Top Colleges Indoctrinate Students and Undermine Our Democracy" Thom spars with David Horowitz www.horowitzfreedomcenter.org
Topic: News under the Radar with Christy Harvey  www.americanprogress.org


Good_Boy (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

Good luck debating David Horowitz today, Mr. Hartmann! The odds are with you, and democracy! (Debating is a skill sorely needed by 'We The People"!)

Cassandra (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

Hi- RE The economy, I feel you are right, that we will see a temporary rise, followed by a steep decline. The question is, how long do we have? It seems there is never enough time to prepare. The volatility of the market directly corresponds to the price of oil; as soon as the market started to improve, oil nudged up. Consequently, as the price of oil increases, the cost of goods and production increases ( as we saw before the "recession/depression"). This is a cycle that paired with the inflation of the value in the market, will inevitably lead to disaster.
Is Obama being played for a sucker? Its either that or he's in cahoots with those who are taking all the wealth while the taking is good. I still want to believe in him as our very existence depends on a strong leader who will make all the right decisions. I hope he is who has advertised himself to be.

I am losing faith in any government responsibility. We need to make our voices heard. ???

RE hr 875- Do you know what is going on with that, I have read some articles by Linn Cohen Cole (get her on your show!) that have really freaked me out.

mathboy (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

I found www.timepage.org/time.html for the cycles of 4 generations.

ejcrist (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

I was doing a web search on ENRON and mark to market, and found this transcript from Limbaugh's show!!!! The caller is vehemently defending ENRON and AIG

RUSH: But I'll tell you what defending Enron today is like... Why don't you defend AIG next?

CALLER: I do. I do defend them! I think it's great that they got those bonuses. I think that --

RUSH: This is my kinda woman here.

CALLER: (giggles) I --

RUSH: You're fearless! You've got courage.

CALLER: Well, I absolutely believe in the American businessman. I think that they are the engines of our economy, and when we start getting into really petty, stupid, class warfare-type arguments, it lowers us all, and it does nothing for our country or for ourselves and I think that's silly. And what we're seeing now... Enron was really, you know, they were a fantastic company. I love them, and I'm so sorry they're gone.

RUSH: Did you work there? Dah, dah, dah! Did you work there?

CALLER: I did work there. I love them, and I love my company, and I love... I just can't say bad things about it. There was no fraud or conspiracy at Enron. But of course nobody will listen to that now. And what we saw with Enron was a witch hunt. That's why Jeff Skilling is in prison and why the Broadband Three are about to go back to trial for the second time, and one of them is going to trial for the third time, and this is just ridiculous. This is a witch hunt. They did nothing wrong. They were just practicing business.

RUSH: Well, you're going to have a tough sell on that.

CALLER: Which part?

RUSH: You're going to have a tough sell on the fact that Enron did nothing wrong. I think that's biting off a liiiittle bit more than you might want to chew.

CALLER: No. No, no. I really don't think it did. There was one... Andy Fastow did steal from Enron, but he also worked for LJM. Enron was the victim, and people keep saying, "Oh, (garbled)..." Enron was the people that they were stealing from. It wasn't like Enron was, you know, out there needling people and taking money that wasn't theirs. I mean Enron was the source of the money that was stolen. It's like, you know, bringing a rape victim or something.

RUSH: Well, I'm not sure I agree with you on all that. And what happened to Enron happened, and they end up with nothing and people that worked there end up with nothing and so forth. I understand the philosophical point that you were making, but I was taking the occasion of what you heard on the radio the other day, to be critical of Congress.


ejcrist (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

Are you kidding me???

B Roll (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago


You had a caller that proposed you start a segment devoted to teach "us" how to start grassroots businesses. I don't think that's a solution for the majority of people when the economy is losing jobs at a rate of 600,000 a month. I think the solution has to be on a mass (social) scale as opposed to individual initiative.

Your response to the caller was to say that the majority of businesses you and Louise started were during recessionary times. But you've been saying that you believe this is the beginning of the next Republican Great Depression. What may work in a recession (for two very intelligent, energetic, talented and confident people) might not work as well during a depression.

Good_Boy (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

Stunning! Between the lines it was implied that if Americans once again value a single, broad-based liberal arts education in America, as Mr. Hartmann put it, "as a predicate to any specializaton," it may well be important to understand how our system will, per sey, interact with the extant or historic centers of learning, like Oxford and Cambridge in Europe, to arts and intellectual schools throughout the rest of the world? Can we lead in sustainability?

nora (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

THOM must have just been TIRED from his trip. That's how I explain away the way he phrased an otherwise strong stand against torture. But, since I've been against 'debating' about torture (there are NO pros and cons about heinous acts) and been against it from the beginning, I feel moved to say my piece here:

The other day Thom said the FIRST reason to reject torture was that it doesn't work.

I disagree.

We must always make the first reason the fact that torture is an expression of cruel, sick, inhumane treatment of the other (whether human, animal or the natural world).

If we pretend there are pros to torture lurking someplace that can justify it, then we are going along with the covert as well overt practices of torture carried out by our government's secretive institutions.

The Bush brand of torture was actually institutionalized U.S. torture oozing out of the shadows.

Just in case any youngins here think this torture stuff is new to the U.S. -- it isn't. It just is being done in a new way, less hidden and less denied.

The Usurper's Torture Policy indicated the extent to which Bush/Cheney were in-our-face arrogant, full-of-themselves, and energized by a sociopathic/psychopathic sense of invulerability.

Examples of how the U.S. committed torture in the shadows are the following: A Western Hemisphere TORTURE SCHOOL (under the watch of Bush I (I think he's in there somewhere) was called the "School of the Americas" which made torture a tool in the intimidation and destabilization of Central America for decades and especially during Iran-Contra period in the 1980s. Also, during the Vietnam War in the 1960s and -70s, the U.S. sponsored and mentored the torture programs in Vietnam, and American 'advisors' were always present while torture was conducted by the South Vietnamese against whomever the Americans told them it was okay to torture. And who knows the full extent of CIA torture overseas?

Investigating and prosecuting the Bush Crimes of Torture and Treason is actually OUR BIG CHANCE to rip open the rotting insides of the U.S. intelligence-military and their overt as well as covert torture programs, and to cut out this rot from our nation! It really is a MONUMENTAL OPPORTUNITY now, and when Barack Obama turns his back on this opportunity to clean out this rot and instead continues rendition etcetera, then Obama exposes himself as being COMPLICIT to the American tradition of torture.

I eschew the argument that "torture doesn't work" which I heard on the show. We must choose NOT to torture because torturing others is INHUMANE, HEINOUS, CRUEL, and UNCIVILIZED.

We must learn to recognize that torture is a tool of intimidation and tyranny; and learn that the torturer tortures his victim not to get to the truth, but to get agreement and thereby subjugate not only the tortured, but all the members targetted for subjugation!

Are we all so indoctrinated into U.S. Militarism and Imperialism that we automatically take the position that if torture were efficient, we would ACCEPT it??? The reason one rejects torture is not the inefficacy of torture! Torture is WRONG, always has been wrong, and always will be wrong.

(Did one caller claim that he would not hesitate to torture someone who helped kidnap his wife and children? Would that guy feel a fool if the torture victim LIED to him? Would he regret the choice to torture if it meant he went on a wildgoose chase and so never got to his loved ones afterall? Does all this feel like a the twists and turns of a stinking rathole of lousy choices? We tumble down that hole when we choose an immoral action like torturing someone and proving ourselves as corrupt and low as the kidnapper/blackmailer, and simultaneously turning our backs on other more level-headed means to attempt a solution? Is it really okay to see oneself as so desperate that one can take any action without logical or moral limits? Is this the same cultural viewpoint/rationale that justified the genocide of Native Americans in the 'settling' of the American continent? Where does it stop? Can it stop?)

Just say "no" to debating torture!

TJ (not verified) 15 years 11 weeks ago

To Nora @ 4/2

Thank you! "Debating" torture is simply a search for a justification. Torture is wrong, always and in all circumstances. It is amazing that those who advocate or justify torture can be so unaware of the effects on the torturer. What we do to our brother, we do to ourselves. We are the prisoners of our own moral choices. One would think that EVERY Christian minister, preacher or priest would be decrying this practice. One would think...

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