April 16th 2009

conservatives-imagesHour 1 - Thom asks Ibrahim Hooper (www.cair.com) "How can we help Islam purge violence?" 

Halima Karsai (www.iwf.org)  joins Thom to talk about Afghan woman pelted with stones for protesting rape law.

Hour 2 - Thom asks conservative radio host Roger Hedgecock (www.rogerhedgecock.com) Why do conservatives want the government to ignore hard right & nazi terrorists?

Hour 3 - Is the credit card bubble about to burst?

Geeky science coming up today!


B Roll (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

To the powers that be (but don't roll like I do).

I posted a long refutation of your theory that humans can only work and live cooperatively in groups of 150 people or less. I posted it around 40 minutes before your show began. That post appeared on this page but didn't show up in the tally of the number of posts. Now it doesn't appear at all.

There seems to be a bug in this page. Yesterday a woman complained that her message posted before she was finished. If this post works, I'll post my original message again.

tbone1966 (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

What conservative group wants to ignore hard right and nazi terroists?

B Roll (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

That was really weird. I checked for my original post a few minutes ago, and there were no posts on this page. As soon as I posted my message about my original post disappearing, my original post appeared along with my post about my original post and a post by tbone1966. So there are 3 posts on this page, before I post this comment, but the tally at the top of the comment section reads:

2 Responses to “April 16th 2009”

Somethin' ain't workin' right.

weldon (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......did you get schooled Thom! Ibrahim exposed your RABID KKKRISTIANIST ZIONIST BIGOTRY! When it comes to religion you are simply disgusting to listen to. undereducated, ignorant, bigoted, completely biased and allied to Zionism you are what Bill Maher says .....foundationally flawed because you believe in the talking snake

no wonder there isn't a mention of Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn or George Galloway on this show.....you are the same bloodthirsty zionist enablers that exterminates Palestinians and justifies it.


Take the Forest Growing out of your eye before you even start pointing fingers at those with a speck in theirs.

i am SICKENED when i have to hear your glaring BIGOTRY.....you should ASHAMED of yourself!


DRichards (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago


B Roll (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Hate to be a pest, but I just noticed that there is a note next to the line that gives my name and the date and time of my first post. That note only appears in my first post and in no other post on this page, so far. That line now reads:

B Roll April 16th, 2009, 7:22 am - Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I don't know if that is due to the length of my post or the fact that I have links in it.

By the way, the time stamp reads one hour earlier than PST. I made my post at 8:22 am PST (which I assume is the time zone Portland is in, but the time stamp reads 7:22 am.

DRichards (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

The problem is in acknowedging the Koran, the Tora, or the Bible as being the "Word of God? When the Liberal/Moderate does this, the Fundamentalist says, Yes, and this is what it says...
It seems to me that it would behoove us all to acknowledge the books to be mythical. As Joseph Campbell teaches, it does not invalidate the myth, (as there is much to learn from our myths).

NashvilleDave (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Off topic but I think you'll like.

TeaBagging - The Music Video (set to Tom Petty's Free Falling.)


Greetings from Nashville Thom!

Quark (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Thom, your conversation with Halima Karsai (www.iwf.org) was fascinating. There were so many more subjects about which I'd like to hear her thoughts. It would be so enlightening to have someone like her (or the previous guest) on your show regularly to expand our understanding of her/his point of view (recognizing that she is only one person and cannot speak for all.)

Among other questions, I would like to know why she is affiliated with a conservative group. She sounds open to discussing new ideas...

Quark (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Is Karsai a common surname? Could she be related to Hamed Karsai?

Quark (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

BTW, I agree that your caller made a very important point that the context is culture, not religion. Very profound!

KMH (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

April 15, 2009 Judicial Department discovers survelleyance equipment at NSA National Security Agency which was being used for spying on Americans. And that this was being dealt with by the new justice department. Has anyone else heard this?

I heard the above reported several times yesterday and again on KRXA540 this morning.

KMH (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

I liked Hallma as well. I turn the volume down when that other lady comes on from IWF because she seems so unrealized.

Leslie (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

A caller had mentioned that they believed it was more culture than religion that was the foundation of the violence. I've always thought that it was about power.
Individuals vying for power use religion as a way to get the people to follow them. We see it happening in our own country with the way the conservatives have used the evangelical Christians to their own devices. I believe it is the same in Islam, it is just that the people there are more desperate, so more deperate measures are taken. If we were to actually lift the people in those countries up, instead of using them for their oil, or in other ways that support our own consumeristic society, I bet violence would go down immensely. Just my two cents. Thanks for a great show.

Craig aka Big Jerk (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Riddle me this....if the definition of a terrorist/terrorist group is an individual(s) spreading their beliefs thru acts of violence, how then, is a Neo-Nazi/White Supremecist not considered a terrorist here in the "homeland'? They should all be renditioned and held without due process like the Bushies did to so many world wide. Is it because these cats have pink skin that makes it acceptable? Brown skin folks would've been handled long ago!

mathboy (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

I can't read the caption on the Demotivator on today's post. Can anyone tell me what it says?

mathboy (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

I finally found it: "Come to the dark side, we have cake and ice cream."

KMH (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

B Roll-

What thread is your 150 threshold published in? Could you tell me, I am studying Kibbutz's and I would like to understand population limitations. I do believe there is a population threshold on systems of governments and I think we are hitting it now on our current system of capitalism and other factors incorporating choice of culture also must be a variable to be considered.

Quark (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Thom, thinking about several of your recent conversations this week with people on the "right," I have such a feeling of elation when there are places of agreement. I feel somehow more alive, more positive --- it is a physical feeling as much as psychological.

Thanks so much for the book!

Quark (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Re: KMH comment about turning the radio down when the other woman from IWF comes on.

KMF, I had to laugh and nod my head when I read your comment! I roll my eyes alot when she's on!

nora (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

When the Dems are in power, the "extremists" are the Rightwing activists and /or crazies. When the Reps are in power, the "extremists" are the Leftwing activists and/or crazies.

At least three things to ask why about:

1. What the Hades does "extremist" MEAN anyway??? (Thom used the term today with authority, and I was surprised that he'd do that.) 'Extremist' is a totally relative term, determined by the so-called cultural 'norm' -- and WHO decides what that 'norm' is? Evidently the Dems do when they're in power and the Reps do when they're in power. The term is more than a little loose then, don't you think?

2. When the Reps tail and tap and demonize vegans and Quakers, you know there is a BIG problem. When Dems attempt to entrap and frame people (like at Ruby Ridge) and children get burned alive (like at Waco), you know there is a big problem. And when BOTH maintain a U.S. citizen "No-Fly List" of millions of names, you know there is a problem.

3. The creation of the demonized "extremist" class means the Oligarchy in control of government can then maneuver to have a ready demon with which to do its usual smoke and mirrors provocateur/false flag terror fake terrorist cells and events. This opens the door for the following HORRIBLE things:
a. It opens the door to the black heart of fear-mongering and bigtime propaganda
b. It permits the use of that propaganda to promote wars, war-profiteering
c.. AND it is used to justify the loss of civil liberties and the growth of oppressive, repressive government regimes!

4. Cultural growth/advancement can come from pressure exerted by activists, so this orchestrated, controlled marginalization of activists (lumping them together with crazies under the term 'extremist') is a dangerous thing for everybody with the exception of those in control (the Oligarchy).

nora (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Just because OPIUM from Afghanistan may not end up in legal uses does NOT mean the PROFITS are not ending up in the pockets of the Rich oligarchs who also get rich on legal opium!

OPIUM history is a history of the Rich, the Oligarchy...Thom needs to read up on the "Boston Brahmins" and their source of wealth!

When slavery was outlawed, the Rich of Bostonians who dealt in slave trading/shipping needed a new commerce, and they found it in imitating the British (who dealt in opium with the Chinese), and the opiate trade picked up. Fine families of high 'breeding' got richer in the opium trader, and I suspect not much has changed!

I agree with Thom's caller who indicated that, like oil being the resource covetted in the Iraq 'War', opium (grown for centuries in Afghanistan) is the resource at the center of the desire to dominate Afghanistan. Thom should read up on the Boston Brahmins to check out the background of all-American drug-dealing.

Doing a segment on the history of drug-dealing (and these drugs were not illegal in the 1800s) would make a great show!

nikko (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Yes, just like the one caller said it. It's cultural. Back in the 7th century Arabs were looking for their own messiah. Their culture and lifestyle did not go well with the preachings of Jesus or any of the other. Many tried to show them the way, but it simply did not fit into how they wanted to live. When Mahammed came along, he was the closest thing to what the Arab nations were desperate to follow. They've always had the violent commonality in them. The way I see it the core of 3 majot religions, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism is love. Islam is the opposite, and I don't want to hear this 1% is the bad apple crap, 'cause if it was then the so called 99% who oppose it can get rid of the bad apple. Why not? because 50-60% support the cause. Rest of the non-Muslims don't have to do squat for them to find peace in themselves unless they start acting like civilized humans and stop demoralizing their women and cut people's heads off, to start off with.. again it's in their culture to do it, religion is something they want to hold and go by.

Alan Rotnemer (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

Tom: I was lucky enough to tune in yesterday, wanted to call in, but we're on a delayed feed. Some comments regarding the issues with Mr. Ibrahim Hooper:

There's good news and bad news in what Mr. Hooper said when you asked him about what Americans should do (engage or lay-off). The good news is that Hooper, like me (more later), states that he believes in fairness and making sure that all extremism is condemned wherever it comes from. The bad news is that most people, including those of groups like those Mr Hooper belong to, don't walk the talk.

But that's not totally their fault. We live in a sound-byte media age. CNN, MSNBC and FOX love confrontation for the sake of ratings boost ("great television"). Unfortunately, even PBS will play the game. I wish they would work toward the commonality of their views, ways to resolve issues, etc. rather than promoting the differences and the scapegoating that goes along with it.

I believe one way to marginalize the extremists such as Al-Qaida is to make them debate. Get them out from under their cover and face their philosophical opposition. I think they'll get their butt kicked. Best to do this (for Al-Qaida) in a Muslim country such as Pakistan with their equivalent of Tim Russert. Make sure the opposition has strong religious credentials so that religious texts can be quoted appropriately or that Bin-Laden/Zawahari quotes can be dismissed (Bhutto tried to do that before she was murdered).

In a letter to the editor of the NY Times back in September 2006 I tried to put in 150-words-or-less some of this philosophy, and I emailed expanded versions of this to several people. The letter was in response to a Tom Friedman article on Islam, but what he said applies to all religions and extreme nationalists.


Any thoughts out there?

P.S. I noticed in another blog entry that Thom mentions Mr. Walid Shoebat, a Palestinian who was once a terrorist that converted to Christianity. I saw Mr. Shoebat speak. He believes that the Palestinains are "hopelessly poisoned" by the extremists, and the only hope Israel has is to fight them and win. If you believe in the possibility of dialogue I don't think you'll agree with Shoebat, because he thinks that the Palestinians do not have a mindset that would support peace.

Jon in Md (not verified) 14 years 7 weeks ago

7mins40secs into hour 2 podcast Roger Hedgecock was disingenuous in distancing himself from other conservative talkers. Roger Hedgecock has substituted for Rush Limbaugh (I call him Limberger because his politics stink like the kind of cheese) for 10 years.

Palestinians don't have a mindset that would support peace. All or a small minority that grows every time IDF tries to get security for Jews at Palestinian expense with disproportionate use of force?
A small but vocal and influential segment of Israelis don't have a mindset that would support peace either. Israeli West Bankers who attack Palestinians (some caught on digital cameras by B'Tselem 'shooting back' program documented on Dec 26, 2007 Democracy Now). Other radical Judaicist (analogous to radical Islamist) Israelis who put a pipe bomb in Zeev Sternhell's office is another example. Israelis who offer 1 million shekel rewards for killing Peace Now members is another example.
Violence by Israelis toward Palestinians is underreported in the USA because of Israel media lobby groups like camera.org, honestreporting.com, primer.org, eyeonthepost.org and their ilk who have twisted the idea of advocating for accurate, objective reporting into disputing reporting which could have an influence on future events that those disputing the reporting don't want. Reporters or editors like Philip Bennett, John W. Anderson, Molly Moore, Patrick Cox and Griff Witte and Scott Wilson, Greg Myre and Stephen Erlanger have lost jobs or been assigned to new beats after being made objects of 'biased reporting' controversies. Camera.org has an alphabetized list of reporters on their site (like campuswatch.org lists of college faculty who don't teach according to zionist, Judaicist narratives of modern Israeli history) who have mostly been the objects of their controversy start-ups for reporting which could have an influence on events camera doesn't want that camera twists into 'bias' complaints. I have only seen one reporter, Aaron Schacter of PRI/NPR, praised for his work on the site. Other reporters get intimidated by seeing their professional colleagues' reputations slandered.
Don't dispute this with the 'moral equivalence' construct. All the term 'moral equivalence' means in most public discourse about Israeli-Palestinian conflict is 'don't compare negative Israeli and Palestinian actions if Israel looks worse in the comparison.' David Bernstein, American Jewish Committee, got a column in Aug 10, 2006 Wash Post defending Israel's second killing of civilians at Qana, Lebanon in 10 years with the 'regrettable accident' defense. He compared it to USA accidental bombing of the China embassy in Belgrade, Serbia. I never heard anyone call that 'moral equivalence.'

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