May 18th 2009 - Monday

Hour 1 - The Crusades? 

preg-imagesHour 2: "Pregnant?  You're fired?!" Thom mixes it up with Carrie Lukas of the Independent Women's Forum 

Hour 3: "Disbarment for torture lawyers?" Thom speaks with attorney Kevin Zeese of Voters for Peace

Topic: "Do it Yourself Bailout" Author/filmmaker Kenny Golde talks to Thom about getting out of debt

Full Monty alert..National Penis Day


B Roll (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago


Last week I posted a comment here that it's necessary to log-in to your site to access the message boards and you have to be a registered member to log-in. I think I was wrong, but not completely.

I was able to get to the message boards without loging in this weekend. But that was only because I noticed the URL for the message boards in the drop-down menu when I was entering the URL for your homepage.

So, the problem is that there's no link to the message boards unless you are logged in. There should be a link to the message boards on your homepage. That's how it used to be on your old site and how it is on the sites of people like Mike Malloy and Ed Schultz.

The lack of this link was probably an oversight when the site was built. I think it could easily be fixed by putting a link to the message boards right next to the CHAT link on the home page. It looks like there's enough room on that line.

One question Thom: Why do you love America so much? (Hope that makes up for my question last week.)

mathboy (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

The only problem I have with the website is that the page content keeps covering the banner menu. For instance, from this page, I can't click on Home, because that button is obscured by the date on today's post. Other buttons on the menu are obscured by the ad for Threshold.

David Schwartz (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago


On the SCOTUS Scalia is 73, Kennedy is 72, so maybe one of those 2 will retire in the next couple of years giving a true opening to get another liberal on the court

B Roll (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Hi mathboy -

I don't have either of the problems you described. The date doesn't obscure anything else on my screen and neither does the add for Threshold. I've checked this with both Firefox and Internet Explorer. There was a time that the homepage wouldn't format properly from time to time, but I haven't seen that problem in a few weeks.

There are a lot of problems with the Message Boards and how they function. The one I commented on was the lack of an external link to those boards.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago


I have thought, since Ford, the Repugnants have LOOKED FOR presidential candidates who are easily manipulated by the "dark forces" (corporate monarchists). They have little to offer except the "nice guy" demeanor. Bush very easily fits that mold.

louise (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Thanks for your thoughtful comments B Roll. We're looking at how to make the message boards easier. Louise

Quark (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

KMH, time to turn your volume off...!

mathboy (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Oh, Thom. You always get so close to saying it: The fact that government intervention is necessary to create corporations in the first place makes Carrie Lukas' argument for non-intervention completely baseless. The government grants the corporation existence, therefore it can put conditions on that existence; it's a contract.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

I could never talk to my extremely Republican mother about politics, either. She was very intelligent, but authoritarian, and didn't want to open her mind to things that might "shake her faith."

Chip (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

The issue of having control over ones life: If I had 4 to 6 weeks of vacation a year, like many in Europe, I would feel I had a lot of control over my life. As it stands my wife and I are required to work so many hours that what little vacation time we get we can not use for fear of losing our jobs.

StevenMN (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Chip, we had that in America from the end of WWII until the "economic royalists" took over the Republican party in 1980. There was a split that year between the traditional moderate conservatives who respected the constitution and took their duties to represent the people to heart. It is true that they tended to think that businesses and the wealthy were more People than workers and the poor but not to the extent that the fascist Reaganites did. We had paid vacations, paid health care and sick days and PROSPERITY. We had grassroots movements working to make things better in our very stable communities and sought to hold corporations responsible for the harm they caused in the pursuit of profit. After Reagan all of that went out the window as the proclaimed "Government is Bad", "Don't expect to work at one company all your life", "Non-enforcement of the Sherman Antitrust act is good for everyone!" and on and on and on..............

brian a. hayes (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

regarding torture if more than disbarment can be done to the lawyers that action must be taken .the bush administration must be held to the rule of law. if we just slap their hands it shows we are not serious about creating a peaceful soceity. what i would like to know how many inocent people where tortured and how many people died from torture? bruce fein for independant prosecutor.

B Roll (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago


Your welcome. I think just about everyone would like to see it work better.

I recall hearing Mike Malloy say that he was going to have the same people that built this site build his. His site does have a link to the message boards on the homepage. I don't post there, so I dont' know if it has any of the problems that the message boards here have.

I'm sure if you started a thread about how to improve the message boards you'd get some good suggestions. Some of the people there are very knowledgeable. I know one thing I'd like to see would be a spell check like this page does.

B Roll (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Libertarianism in the animal world... maybe sharks!

B Roll (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

The mention of Libertarian think tanks reminded me that I've seen sharks in tanks. The evidence seems to be growing.

Richard Adlof (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Following your rant on Corporatism overwhelming government . . . is an advert for Schwarzenegger’s newest follies . . . Propositions 1A - 1F. Selling tomorrow’s future to maintain the Republican State legislators’ pledge to the Club for Growth . . . .

Richard Adlof (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Woo - HOO!!! on last Friday!!!

StevenMN (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Sharks are always moving. They cannot stop. They are from the same planet as pidgeons but their job is to watch our underwater activities. It is said they eat anything but they are actually sampling things and reporting the results of their inquiries to the whales who use their odd songs to transmit data to the homeworld---------------------------------jeez, I've been listening to Thom too long!

StevenMN (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Back in Eisenhower's time he warned us against the Military/Industrial complex...Oh, for the days of the Military/Industrial complex. Now their big brothers have taken over and we face the highly insidious Governement/Corporate complex.

StevenMN (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Those may have been Reagan's 9 most terrifying words but his Party's 9 most terrifying words are "Of the People, By the People, For the People"!

AZAFVET (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Supreme Court Hands Medical Marijuana a Major Victory

AZAFVET (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

I guess the best place to live in the US is on the Oregon side of the border between California and Oregon. If you have a terminal disease, you can legally use pot to deal with the complications in Cali and the when the time comes, have a physician help you end it in dignity in Oregon..

KMH (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Ancient Chinese proverb say he who does not pay debt take on bad karma.

But have the application of the laws of karma changed today Thousands of farmers in India commit suicide because they cannot pay back paper money for whom the value is artificially rigged and manipulated. In effect, the money has been stolen before we spend the mere paper pieces we possess. This is why I want Kibbutz as a safety net. Then go back to bartering for awhile, until as much of the system is rehabilitated as possible for what participating parties are involved. Beats going to Siberia prison! With holding payment is that bastion of last resort all corporations accepting credit and loans should be prepared for. Who will buy their widgets that drive their profits when we have no money?

Mark (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

I like Thom's show, but I have to respond to yet another instance of his playing fast and loose with the facts to advance a political agenda. History is my favorite subject, and when he says things like women were tortured during the Salem witchcraft trial, I am forced to correct that assumption. Corey Giles, who was not a woman, was one of the few who suffered instances of physical (as opposed to mental) torture by being pressed by heavy rocks to force a plea from him ("More weight" was his reply when pressed to plea). Otherwise, during the trial, inquisitors sought confessions free from the taint of torture; the teenage age girls who were the principle accusers engaged in what might be called malicious gossip today, but the reasons for their lies can be boiled down to fear, immaturity and the seeking of sympathy ("The Devil made me do it"), They may even have thought to gain public esteem. The driving forces behind the trials were not even religious in nature, but political, social and economic; this was particularly true in Salem, where the trials were used to get rid of personal enemies and troublesome characters, as well as a mechanism to gain the property of the accused, particularly widows.

Catsrule (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Tom, I think you are right about things getting worse before we can reclaim our democracy. It will take a lot more pain before people realize what's really going on and decide it's time to do something about it. Some people are still too comfortable and untouched by the current downturn. They don't think it can get worse. They need to wake up. It can happen here. We are not invulnerable.

Mark (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Last week I was listening with increasing incredulity the commentary of a recently reinstated progressive talk show host (who shares with Ron Reagan the initials R.R.) on the subject of Nancy Pelosi’s flip flop on torture. Unlike some people, I’m not prepared to place Nancy Pelosi on a “go girl” pedestal for her apparent change of heart on supporting a “truth commission.” Before, she probably was possessed by the awareness that she not only was briefed on “enhanced interrogation techniques,” but that unlike some of the Democratic lawmakers who heard the same thing she did from the CIA, she expressed no opposition to what—semantics and euphemisms aside—she full well knew was torture. If she was “misled” on waterboarding, it was not on the procedure itself, but the timetable of its implementation.
Pelosi the political opportunist did not what to jeopardize her position by picking a fight with a Bush administration that was successfully playing the fear and paranoia card. But now, she realizes that she has been compromised by revelations that she knew that torture (euphemisms aside) was intended and did nothing, and to save her credibility (and fundament), she is now supporting what others have been pressing her to do for years. Misled? She misled herself.

ktown (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Thom, thank you for taking my call RE: Kenny Gold. I wanted to add that there are tens of thousands of aspiring filmmakers and producers who want to get their projects made. It was discouraging to hear Kenny say that this is the way to get ahead, to put your production expenses on credit cards then talk your way out of paying them off. I don't think he considered the effects that will result if other media folks follow this model. His approach degrades the development and production process. His credit card expenses were not medical or for food, they were to further his career. It is sad to hear a colleague propose this route to producing. I hope you can find a guest who produced a great project without resorting to faulty - I want to say dishonorable - justifications like this.

Lore (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

poem from an old schoolbook - 1927 - Junior High

Abou Ben Adhem
Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in the room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An angel writing in a book of gold.
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?" The vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord,
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee then,
Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

Leigh Hunt

Mike5709 (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

I listen to the show on XM and unfortunately it is a delayed broadcast so I cannot call. My comment concerns the interview with Kenny Golde concerning credit card debt.

Mr. Golde put forth that people should not feel guilt or shame for not being able to pay their credit card debt. He recommended that even people who are able to meet current payments should stop paying so they could negotiate their debt downward, in effect promoting theft.

His rationale is that people overspent because of the credit card companies. Give me a break. People have overspent because they “had to have it now”. It ignores the fact that people make bad choices and should feel the pain of those choices.

I am 59 years old and my wife and I have no credit card debt. It’s not because we are wealthy, it’s because we put off purchases if we couldn’t afford to pay. Those who didn’t should feel the consequences of their actions.

Not too many years ago, to declare bankruptcy was considered shameful. Unfortunately, today it has become a strategy.

Our Country is on a path that diminishes the responsibility people have for their actions.

(I am not speaking of people who experience a job loss or a medical emergency so do paint me as a heartless conservative.)

Frank Feuerbacher (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

Re: Carrie Lucas; rights of companies vs individuals.

What if we viewed government entities as corporations. Then the contract between individuals and the country/corporation that they live in is voluntary and therefore the individual is bound by contract to follow the rules of the country/corporation. The individual is free to leave (provided they are not breaking a contract obligation) and belong to another country. Sure, they have to move, possibly learn a new language, perhaps forfeit their house, their retirement, etc. but they are free to leave once they fulfill their obligations.

Oh, but you say that since you are born belonging to a country and this is not voluntary. True. But don't parents already bind their children to follow the terms of contracts?

Benedict (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

mathboy - Your problem with viewing the website can be remedied by upgrading to the newer version of Internet explorer. Yeah, that shouldn't be necessary, but the problem has been there since day one, and so is not likely to be fixed soon.

nora (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago


Endless internment without a timeline -- that is PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE. So we are continuing to torture, even under Obama....

rjwin (not verified) 13 years 45 weeks ago

The torture of 135 african americans, over a 20 year period, by area 2 police commander Jon Burge blows your "emailers" suppositions out of the water. Jon Burge did it then for the same reasons they do it now: to extract false confessions. But because the victims were black, they are easily dismissed Everyone wonders how did this happen? I wonder why it took so long. Please you can save it.

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

Hello All

Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.

Please follow us across to - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.

From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"If you wonder why and when giant corporations got the power to reign supreme over us, here’s the story."
Jim Hightower, national radio commentator and author of Swim Against the Current
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
"Beneath the success and rise of American enterprise is an untold history that is antithetical to every value Americans hold dear. This is a seminal work, a godsend really, a clear message to every citizen about the need to reform our country, laws, and companies."
Paul Hawken, coauthor of Natural Capitalism and author of The Ecology of Commerce
From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
Peter Coyote, Actor and author of Sleeping Where I Fall