In regard to Thom’s conversation with Scott Wheeler—and in anticipation of his conversation with a former KKK member later this week—I thoroughly disagree with his contention that Clinton’s “marginalizing” of Timothy McVeigh as a lone nut was for the “good” of the country. Tell that to anyone who is a target of hate groups. Other than efforts by organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center, hate groups collect their weapons and prepare for a "race war" virtually unmolested by government and law enforcement officials.

Heavily redacted files forced from the FBI via a FOIA request reveal that only days before the OKC bombing Timothy McVeigh sought assistance from a neo-Nazi named Andreas Strassmeir at a white supremacist/paramilitary compound called Elohim City. At least one of its members were in Oklahoma City the day of the bombing. Yet, thanks to the Clinton administration, all of this was suppressed; this isn’t “conspiracy theory” stuff, it is simple fact. Those who aided McVeigh continue to roam free, and we shouldn’t question their desire to cause mayhem, if given the right atmosphere like the current anti-Latino immigrant sentiment; how many of you recall Michael Moore’s interview with the brother of Terry Nichols in his film “Bowling for Columbine”? In a conversation off-camera, Moore is clearly panicked when this psycho showed him the gun he keeps under his pillow.

A month ago a caller on Ron Reagan’s show suggested that blond, blue-eyed white people had to take off their shoes at airports in order to avert accusations of racism, and Ron joked that this was probably true. My response to him was that it was blond, blue-eyed white people like Timothy McVeigh who were members of groups that constituted the most dangerous home-grown terrorists in this country, and they were being allowed to roam unmolested.

Thom,

I think you were a little over the top with your celebration of the victory of pro-western March 14 Alliance in Lebanon. I know you probably had very little information about it, but still, I think it fits into two patterns you continue to repeat.

1) You assume that countries, governments, parties and groups that favor the United States are the good guys, because we’re supposed to be the good guys.

2) You want so much for Barack Obama to be the magical fixit man who is going to make everything better for this country and for this world. And you seem to think that if everyone just loves us, everything will be alright, because we’re good.

The problem with that is, and the record is clear, the elites who run the United States are interested in getting all the wealth and power they can and they have little concern for the harm their actions will cause.

Your enthusiasm for the electoral victory in Lebanon and your belief that Obama’s speech in Cairo, days before the election, has to be based on incomplete information. There are so many factors involved in the election and I know I don’t have enough information or ability to account for everything.

But I know that you said that the “pro-western” vote wouldn’t have been possible with Bush as president. I don’t recall if you said 1 year ago or 4 years ago. But since the last parliamentary election was four years ago, let’s compare results.

The March 14 Alliance won 71 of 128 seats in this election. They won 72 seats in the 2005 election. So in pure numbers, you could say that the “Obama Bump” produced 1 less seat. Of course, you can say a lot happened between 2005 and 2009. The biggest thing being the 2006 Israeli assault and invasion of Lebanon in which the United States did little to restrain Israel. The result was massive deaths and tremendous destruction of the Lebanese infrastructure. So, it’s possible that Obama talking about a more even handed Middle East policy may have swung some voters.

But a June 8 article in the Jerusalem Post notes the observations of Paul Salem, Beirut-based director of the Carnegie Middle East Center as seeing it differently.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull...

“Salem said Obama's outreach may have helped the winning side in the sense that it is no longer seen as a liability in many corners of the Middle East to be aligned with the US.

But Obama's outreach did not appear to have resonated with the electorate as much as a last-minute appeal from head of the influential Maronite Catholic Church. Cardinal Nasrallah Sfeir warned voters on the eve of the election of what he called an attempt to change Lebanon's character and its Arab identity, a clear reference to Hizbullah and its Persian backer, Iran.”

Opinions on Obama’s impact may differ, but there is more than one opinion. Maybe we should factor in an implicit warning from Israel that a Hezbollah victory would destabilize the region. That could be frightening coming from a country that reduced much of your country to rubble only 2 years ago and did the same to Gaza less than 6 months ago.

And don’t forget, as you said, the United States gave financial backing to the pro-western March 14 Alliance. I guess it’s OK for our government to spend your tax dollars to meddle in another country’s elections. You might want to reconsider that view when you look at how the U.S. economy is slipping while those of other countries have grown. Who knows who might decide to pour money into our elections?

And what do you know about the March 14 Alliance? The leader of the alliance is Saad Hariri, an MP in the Lebanese Parliament. The name Hariri may be familiar to you since Saad Hariri’s father was Rafiq Hariri, the assassinated former Lebanese Prime Minister. So there may be a bit of a family political dynasty here.

Here are a few Hariri family facts:

Rafiq Hariri was a very successful businessman. In fact, he was so successful that the inheritances each of his children received after his assassination in 2005 put qualified all 4 of his children the Forbes list of the 400 richest people in the world.

Forbes listed Saad Hariri as the 156th richest person in the world with a net worth of around $4.1 billion in 2006. By 2008, he had slipped to the 334th richest with a net worth of around $3.3 billion. Maybe the will had a clause that he had to get rid of around $1 billion in order to keep the rest. That would be a great idea for a movie.

Both the 2006 and 2008 Forbes listings show Saad Hariri’s country of citizenship and residence as Saudi Arabia, and the family construction business is named Saudi Oger with annual revenues of $9 billion. I’m guessing that Hariri has duel citizenship, but the brief bio in the Forbes list said that Saad Hariri ““Takes cover in Riyadh when security gets shaky in Beirut.” It lists him having residences in Riyahd, Saudi Arabia, the Middle East & Africa. (I thought Saudi Arabia and Lebanon were both in the Middle East.

Something you didn’t address is the question of who makes up this pro-western alliance. Of course, Hariri’s moderate Future Movement is the largest party, with the most seats in the parliament. There are many other parties. You might be familiar with the Progressive Socialist Party headed by Walid Jumblat, the fiercely anti-Israel Druze leader. Don’t worry, he’s also fiercely anti-Syria and anti-Iran. And the alliance also includes the Phalangists, who I’m sure you’re familiar with. As you recall, the Phalangists carried out the massacre of hundreds of Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Beirut when the Israeli Defense Forces let them into the camps after occupying the city.

So, the pro-western March 14 Alliance includes some folks you might not want to go to a wine tasting party with. But hey, they’re kind of pro-western, for now.

By the way, you didn’t mention that among the countries supporting the March 14 Alliance are those beacons of democracy, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

So what were you celebrating yesterday? It seems to me that if you like a country to be led by super wealthy plutocratic carpet-bagging oligarchs allied with murderous cutthroats and backed by some very undemocratic countries and a country described by Martin Luther King, Jr. as “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today”, I guess you can party hearty Thom Hartmann.

As for Obama’s popularity in the area, let’s see how it holds up when the people see the following:

Obama plans on keeping a residual force of tens of thousands in Iraq and is ramping up the war in Afghanistan, and still has around 250,000 private contractors in the two countries.

Obama is increasing the use of high flying drones for attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan causing increasing civilian deaths.

Obama is planning on spending over $750 million to build a huge embassy (around the size of 80 football fields) in Pakistan,

Of course, many people noticed that in his Cairo speech, Obama told the Palestinians that they should abandon violence, but didn’t tell the Israelis to do the same. He told the Israelis that “new” settlements on the West Bank (aka the future Palestinian state) aren’t acceptable, but said nothing about the existing settlements which take up a large portion and some of the best land there.

But lets deal with the important questsion: Thomas Jefferson, boxers or briefs?

.we need to think of our country as a human body. to have a heathy life everything must be functioning corectly. every organ must be in harmony with the others. the head could be like the goverment and business. the trunk of the body is the commons of the nation. the arms and legs are the people of the nation.

You can see the Republicans ramping up their faux populist propaganda. This morning, Nora O'Donnell questioned House Minority Whip Eric Cantor on MSNBC. Cantor said that the stimulus package was not addressing the needs of small business as well as the massive loss of jobs in this country (plus creating unsustainable debt.)

I nearly fell off my chair! When did the Republics (in recent memory) seem to care about those basic national issues?

O'Donnell corrected a few of Cantor's more outrageous statements. Nevertheless, I was chilled to hear Cantor take on this populist mantel.

Here's an example of the rhetoric:

Obama's disapproval rating on the economy has risen from 30 percent in February to 42 percent, according to a Gallup poll completed May 31. Sensing weakness on a signature issue of Obama's presidency, congressional Republicans are renewing their criticisms that the stimulus plan has not shown results, only mounting debt.

"This is President Obama's economy, and his administration must provide results and specifics rather than vague descriptions of success that seem to change by the week," said House Republican Whip Eric Cantor of Virginia. "The administration looks dramatically out of touch as they highlight the creation of temporary summer employment in the face of job losses unseen in decades, record unemployment and massive deficits."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31183772/

if you want to understand milton freidman check out a youtube titled milton freidman and greed.

Thom,

I'm baffled about what you are cynical about at times.

You talked about the right using electronic voting machines to maniupulate election results. OK, I'm with you there.

Then you talk about a situation in South Dakota (I think) in which a an alleged voting machine glitch added 500 votes in a precinct with 800 voters. You expressed your cynicism by say something like, "Yeah, a glitch."

I know people don't always think out their scams very well, but it doesn't make sense to jack up the vote by over 60% in a place where it would easily be noticed, which it was. What would the point be. If it was a test run, it could easily be tried out in private. It wouldn't take very long for a few people to cast 800 votes in a real life simulation.

The idea of pulling an electoral scam is to be able to get away with it. Of course, you could say that the idea was to get caught to get the public accustomed to the idea that that voting machines fail.

My frog... they're so brilliantly devious. How can we ever beat them!!!

did raegan every balance a budget? hell no

Would not it be easier for us progressives to take over the Republican party ! lol- sorry, I jest- but then....as George Bernard Shaw said, there is no such thing as a joke.

Please have the ilk of Morning Joe on again. He seemed at least a reasonable person.

What I will think about when I hear Joe Scarborough . . .

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/reort_before_congressi...

Yes, everyone requires a vigorous defense BUT somethings are less than defensible.

Medicare is a deficit only because the elderly and disabled (biggest users of health care ins) are the only ones allowed. If we had Medicare for all it would always be solvent. You let Scarborough get away with his ignorant propaganda of how will we pay for it...Medicare will be bankrupt blah blah blah. The "big decisions" Joe is stopping the profiteering from greedy private ins. We'd have no problem paying for Medicare for all as it would amount to less than 10% of what we are currently paying AND include dental. A $1.7 Billion CEO package goes along way in covering the uninsured.

Are you getting too busy to prepare for your guests Thom? If Joe Scarborough has one moment of clarity he thinks he's a genius. Leaders of both parties are members of the "Money Party". Joe is an idiot and nothing he said was anymore than appeasement. Medicare for all is single payer not for profit and Joe is furthest away from ending the profiteering as possible. You don't know Joe or you would know how full of shit he is...he is an embarrassment and is willfully ignorant...just question him and you'll see. Thom you are so easily mislead in your desire to avoid conflict. Joe is a blatant idiot and you gave him a pass.

Onit2day and B Roll,

I need to listen to the Scarborough segment again. I must have missed much of what you heard.

I guess the absense of shouting (from Joe) lulled me into a false sense of contentment! (LOL)

Thom,

Mary Landreau has not been a particularly reliable Democrat in the past. This is more of the same behavior.

Mary Landrieu's phones were busy so I sent her the following email even though I know she will never read it.

Because of you opposition to single payer, or any public option for health insurance that would benefit the poor people of your state whom you obviously care little about, I will be sending a campaign to your opponent in your next election. I am a real Democrat and having said that, I will send a donation to your Republican opponent should you survive a primary just to remove you from office.

You are a female Benedict Arnold.

People of Nebraska and Louisana (Nelson and Landrieu) please get on your senators case about the public option. Call or go to their office if you have to. This is going to be a huge battle and we need your help.

What was the website for the Harvey J Kaye, Thomas Paine Promise of America?

When I type in www.dealeyplaza.net I get re routed to http://www.jfk.org/ is this right?

B Roll,

Thanks for the history lesson. I've read a couple of the books you referenced, but have forgotten about some of these events.

Once again, the military and corporate industrial complex shows how it runs the world.

B Roll,

It sounds a little like Eisenhower may have made his "beware the military industrial complex" remarks with hindsight regret, since he didn't seem to have a problem using the military for some of these pro-corporate, antidemocratic ventures.