Monday August 3 2009

healthcare-is-right-imagesQuote:  Take not from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned -- Thomas Jefferson

Hour One - Should trees have legal standing in a court of law? Thom is challenging John Lott, PhD www.johnrlott.blogspot.com

Hour Two - Where is the barrier between freedom of religion and manslaughter when religion replaces medicine for minor children? Chief/Dr. Phillip Cloudpiler Landis www.nemenhah.org

Hour Three - Will a public option lead to single-payer healthcare? Dr David Scheiner, President Obama's physician. www.pnhp.org

1120a - The California Nurses continued push for single payer healthcare Martha Kuhl  www.GuaranteedHealthcare.org

Comments

Making Progress (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#1

I just discovered Chris Langan through Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers. Anyway with an IQ of approximately 200, he's "the Smartest Man in the World." After watching this interview on You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ak5Lr3qkW0 I'd love to hear Thom discuss the meaning of life with him. If nothing else watch this interview from 2001, it's facinating to hear him talk about Absolute Truth!

Loretta (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#2

I'm sad. I'm a workshop and won't get to listen to the show for ten days. During meals I'll be sure to talk with folks about health care, though, to do my karma work. Hope everyone has a great week. Next month I must sign up for the podcast!

molmsted (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#3

If we don't get decent health reform, this exercise has illustrated the true state of our government.

B Roll (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#4

Loretta,

I think you can listen to any of the shows you miss from KPOJ's podcast page

http://www.620kpoj.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=har...

Hope the workshop goes well.

B Roll (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#5

If you want 3 minutes 25 seconds of amusement you can watch "Go Ahead And Die! (Pirates Of The Health Care-ibean)" by the Austin Lounge Lizards

Mark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#6

I once heard an old gentleman refer to the HMO Group Health as "Group Death,” for reasons one might easily surmise. All these false stories disseminated by the right that a public option invites involuntary euthanasia of the elderly is already being practiced by the private sector, particularly if you are not a celebrity, a politician or rich. But our morality should be no different than any other civilized country; younger people should not feel their taxes or insurance premiums are being misused on older people—for when they themselves grow old, they will be dependent on a younger generation to help them through their latter years. The elderly should also keep in mind that it is Republicans who opposed and consistently tried to disrupt or destroy Social Security and Medicare.

In any case, the health care industry seems to be diseased with a strange kind of schizophrenia. For instance, stories have been told of how a person may complain of a dull pain of unknown origin or purpose, but suspects that maybe a prescription of an appropriate pain medication may be a sufficient cure. The doctor, however, has other ideas. He may know that this is a pedestrian case, but merely prescribing pills seems “too easy” and not very profitable. So, perhaps against the wishes of the patient, orders a battery of tests, just to “make sure.” When it is all over, the cure is a $5 bottle of Ibropropin—and a bill for $2,000. If the insurance company determines that the tests were unnecessary, then the patient foots the cost. The patient probably would have been better served if he or she had stopped by the drug store instead.

Yet on the other hand are the cases where—particularly for the elderly or poor—the doctor, recognizing the serious nature of an illness, orders tests, treatments and various therapies, only to be denied by the insurance company. Some clerical flunky who has no personal knowledge of the case, and couldn’t care less, makes life and death decisions. Patients who clearly need additional treatment are simply thrown out onto the street, or if allowed to remain in a hospital, become sicker, or acquire new diseases, because they did not receiving the treatment they needed because it is being denied by an insurer.

All this indicates a health care system out-of-whack and in desperate need of reform. But instead of focusing on reforming the system, the right and blue-dogs (who call themselves Democrats because somebody else was already the Republican candidate) are promoting fear and engaging in personal attacks on Obama to mask their own incompetence and inhumanity.

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#7

Does anyone trust these guys?

Both Geithner and Summers were on the talking head shows yesterday and said they would not rule out tax increases on the middle class. Here's the video:

http://www.politico.com/largevideobox.html?id=31557668001

My blood pressure has been high ever since I heard these interviews. I didn't sleep well last night. This is such an outrage!

The wildly successful "Cash for Clunkers" program is such obvious proof that the middle class is cash-starved and needs HELP, not taxes.

When Wall Street is running our government, no reforms, equitable taxes, or reform in the financial industry seem possible.

B Roll (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#8

ooooops.. I forgot to include the link to the "Go Ahead And Die!" Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNuCfD5bICQ

intruder (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#9

Republican Version:

The poor masses of the United States, in order to serve a more perfect union, will establish justice for the powerful, insure domestic tranquility for the chosen, provide for the defense of the elites wealth, promote corporate welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to enslave and beat down the masses, the elite ordain and establish this Constitution for the Republican America.

: )

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#10

Obama admin won't rule out raising taxes on middle class
2 Obama officials: No guarantee taxes won't go up
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/08/obama-admin-wont-rule-out-raising-taxes...

Why do the democrats always play into the republican's hands? Who says the Federal government has to balance it's budget? All the Democrats do is save up the money for the republicans to spend! The democrats should due away with all federal taxes, and then they would be everybody's hero!

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#11

intruder,

Yes, Nietzche seems to agree with you:

What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. What is bad? All that is born of weakness. What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.

Friedrich Nietzsche, The Antichrist, section 2

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#12

Time for a little escapist break, then political activism:

http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a250aae22c0eb170122c25665a0000f

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#13

DRichards,

See my first post; it has the videos.

B Roll (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#14

I heard this on the weekend.

There are 2,500,000 people in California who don't have health insurance. If they were a city, it would be the fourth largest city in the U.S.. I just checked and Houston, Texas, is the 4th largest city with population of a little under 2,500,000.

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#15

B Roll,

'Seems to me there should be large groups of very angry people in this country demanding fairness...

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#16

B Roll,

I also think the GOP is trying to co-opt these groups of angry people to work AGAINST change for the better, as usual.

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#17

Quark,
Re:Does anyone trust these guys?

I sure don't!

The democrats say " We have to balance the budget". The republicans say "Who cares about the budget, deficits don't matter", and so the democrats are always playing the "bad" guy.

Why raise taxes, or even tax at all, other than to pay the Federal Reserve for loaning the government money (which was created out of then air anyways)?

It gets me when the banks say that they lost money. How can you loose money when it was simply a spreadsheet transaction to begin with?

Are budgets just a game that the two parties play? You be the bad guy, I'll be the good guy...

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#18

DRichards,

And, like Cheney, they do their dirty deals "in the dark."

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#19

Hilarious! See Lily Tomlin at work on health care reform: http://www.californiaonecare.org/

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#20

Test my gravitar

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#21

TFF,

Kitty cat?

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#22

WRONG, Thom! They do NOT care about the country . . . They care only for themselves BUT are too stupid for words.

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#23

Meow- is this the guy Thom is talking to? http://www.jonlot.blogspot.com/

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#24

We have a serious case of stupid i tess this country- time we began teaching them:
go here for a list of conservative blogs and report back to let us know what responses you got- post all the tools you have been collecting and TEACH, AWAKEN- or at least just disenchant - check out these search terms on twitter 'health care' GO!

Get list of conservative blogs here: http://jadexy.blogspot.com/

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#25

Oh- and be sure you tell them to listen the the Thom Hartmann show! of course! or give them the link to your local progressive station - its the fight we thought we might happen under Bush - but sadly, it still needs to be had.

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#26

TFF,

Thanks for all the info! I have my marching orders now.

I just called my 2 MN senators - Klobuchar and Franken - to get an itinerary of their town halls. They're not set up 'til the senate adjourns, tho.

I want to go to the meetings to make contact with both senators and the CROWDS.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#27

Is anybody really surprised that the Goldman boys (Summers & Geithner) won't rule out a middle-class tax hike? I'm not.

But I'm not particularly worried about it either. They don't have to rule out such a hike - the President already has!

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#28

Emanuel is a Corporatist Winger.

Pelosi has a proven track record of doing whatever to whomever just to stay in personal power.

Reid has never not folded in the face of opposition fro, the Party of “NO! and nothing else”.

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#29

Re my post:

"I also think the GOP is trying to co-opt these groups of angry people to work AGAINST change for the better, as usual."

Thom's right --- it's the corporations.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#30

A couple of interesting stories from the world of sports -

1) I will assume that everybody here knows who Tiger Woods is - he's only the most famous professional golfer in the world. Well, ladies and gents, here is how bad the economy has gotten - over the next month, for the first time in his ENTIRE CAREER, Tiger will play in tournaments for 3 consecutive weeks! Hard times indeed - we all feel for ya, Tiger ... Imagine having to work at YOUR JOB for 3 weeks in a row!

2) Over this past weekend, another name from the infamous list of Baseball players who took steroids during was leaked. I won't even bother to mention whose it is, because it is irrelevant. (IMHO, in a few years, we will not only EXPECT professional atheletes to take steroids, we'll essentially REQUIRE them to - but that's ALSO beside the point.) This list was compiled at a Grand Jury Hearing. Grand Jury Hearings are SECRET! No part of the testimony is ever to become public. The media are not supposed to know about any of it, let alone report it. I think we may need another Grand Jury investigation into these leaks of prior Grand Jury testimony.

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#31

THX Quark-

I put it on my list of things to do to get a list of town halls here. When I went to the tea party here I also handed out Thom's Tea Party Article and this flyer- http://www.lcurve.org/

I made some friends of them, I tell you. Instructions on how to listen to Thom's show, too!

The Republicans = The Corporatists! and their supporters, gullible and naieve.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#32

Democrat groups are run by ad hock committees of the zealots and well meaning folk who have a few bucks in their pocket.

Party of “NO! and nothing else” groups are corporate funded followers.

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#33

You are so right, Thom - just pass a law allowing the rest of us to join medicaid- period.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#34

Promotion of the THEM. Xenophobia: the FEAR of the other. Propaganda is packaged FEAR. Control through FEAR and economic insecurity.

WTF ever happened to “Question Authority”.

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#35

mstaggerlee,
Re: Is anybody really surprised that the Goldman boys (Summers & Geithner) won’t rule out a middle-class tax hike?

The Elite want your wealth any way they can get it. You can voluntarily give it to them, or they can force it from you in the form of taxes (which in turn goes to the Federal Reserve/the Elite. Why else tax the middle & lower classes and give tax breaks or corporate welfare to the very wealthy?

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#36

TFF,

The L-Curve article is great. Thanks!

I'd also like to find easy, concise info. (for "beginners") I could reprint on single-payer health care and corporate opposition. I would take many copies of both types of documents to hand out to people at the town hall meetings.

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#37

Richard,

Re: WTF ever happened to “Question Authority”.

Good question. I've done that my whole life. So have my husband and son. (We are artists, musicians, etc. and informed. You know --- the first against the wall when the bad guys take over.)

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#38

Quark,
Re: (We are artists, musicians, etc. and informed. You know — the first against the wall when the bad guys take over.)

How very true!

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#39

The problem with the Democrats is that they need to at least read a book on how to sell cars. Perhaps- they are getting that lesson now under Cash for Clunkers-

mstaggerlee (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#40

A note to Religious Fundamentalists of all stripes -

I first heard this when I was about 3 years old. I believe it more today than I did then ...

G-d helps those who help themselves. :)

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#41

Put them up against The Wall - Pink Floyd-

how true Dr Richards,

you know, I finally saw MILK the other night.

Evidently Barack is going to lay a wreath somewhere or give a Presidential Medal of Honor for Harvey Milk Aug 12, 2009 per Christine Kraft reporting.

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#42

mstaggerlee ,
Re: G-d helps those who help themselves.

Yeah, but since it's not in the Bible, they dismiss it.

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#43

mstag-- how about the joke in which G-d sends the raft, the row boat, and the tug boat to the people who say- oh that's okay G-d said he will save us- and then they die, go to heaven and ask G-d, "Why did you let us die" and G-d says "You fools, I sent you a raft, a row boat, and a tug boat.! "

crease (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#44

I am going to compare apples to oranges here to prove my point,We will spend $550 billion on defense ths year as oposed to $2.4 trillion for health care.We will lose 18,000 percious American civilians because of health care issues compared to 4,500 dearly loved soldiers in the last 8 years of war.The re-pukes have their Sheeple shill for the corporations because what is said to them is the gospel.From my understanding and investigation in health care and I have found out that hedge funds are fueling health care profits by what is called Medical loss ratio which means if they insurer is spending to much on care it`s not making enough profit.Please watch sicko and the Bill Moyers interview with Wedell Potter.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#45

TFF - almost posted that story - went for the short form instead. ;)

DRichards (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#46

I like Joseph Campbell's definition of religion. Religion is when you take the myth as being literal. It gets very dangerous when you force the myth on others, and a crime when you force the helpless (children) to abide by your myth and to suffer the consequences.

crease (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#47

DRichards , What strikes me most is how these zealots use and devalue religion especially the Christian Reich wing nuts for all of their HYPOCRISY and LIES.I always looked a Jesus as a socialist myself because he was all about love and peace and performed socialized medicine by healing the blind and lame and others, or am i crazy because I am not a huge believer in religion.

TFF (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#48

Thom, can we get a copy of what you are reading from Dick Army's group?

Quark (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#49

Remember Ira Magaziner, the developer of the Clinton health care reform proposal? I always wondered why the single-payer option was never considered or even discussed. I looked up his bio. The CORPORATIONS were well-served, even then:

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/summit/98summit/english/katagaki.html

Kai Wen (not verified) 11 years 7 weeks ago
#50

We now have people funded by the health insurance companies to show up and disrupt town hall meetings. I think we should come up with a good label for these people. I would suggest "Death Merchants".

Trump has told us how he and the Republicans plan to steal this election: can we stop him and save our republic?

Thom plus logo Donald Trump became president by exploiting a loophole called the Electoral College. The majority of Americans did not want him or vote for him as president, but he's there anyway.

Now he's planning on using a different loophole, the 12th Amendment, to hang onto power.
From Unequal Protection, 2nd Edition:
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David C. Korten, author of When Corporations Rule the World and Agenda for A New Economy
From Screwed:
"Thom Hartmann’s book explains in simple language and with concrete research the details of the Neo-con’s war against the American middle class. It proves what many have intuited and serves to remind us that without a healthy, employed, and vital middle class, America is no more than the richest Third World country on the planet."
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