Tuesday September 1 2009 - Highlights
By Louise
Hour One: "Why do conservatives want to keep quality health care out of reach for Americans?" Thom challenges Heather Higgins of the Independent Women's Forum www.iwf.org
Hour Two - Cash for Geezers? Thom debates economist John Lott
Hour Three: "Have we seen the 'Death of Conservatism'?" Thom talks with Sam Tanenhaus of the New York Times about his new book www.randomhouse.com
Comments
#2
F.Y.I.-
Besides checking out the video's of Sen. John Culver's tribute to Ted Kennedy, at the wake last Friday, (it is the best example of what is expected at an Irish Wake.!..hilarious and human.) , check out Bill Moyer's appearance on Bill Maher's 'Real Time'. I'm sure Thom did.
Moyer's talks about spinal operations for Democrats and the reasons why "we" shouldn't settle for half a loaf on health care. His reasons for that, are rooted in a historical perception to which I am likewise inclined. i.e. Many major advances for the peoples rights have come after many unsuccessful earlier attempts in Congress. He feels we should fight ahead for principals upon which we can stand, without any 'deals',or "half- loafs", reaching our goals more quickly. Or as Thomas Paine might have said if afflicted by the use of my addled brain or pen: Sometimes it is better to fight fiercely and plant the flag nearer the goal, reaching a lasting public consensus that is in harmony with a worthy cause...... than to settle for a thing which damages the credibility of the cause and does little or nothing but offer table-scraps from the tables of our tormentors.....or...... should that be?: " forks of our foes"? .....
What do you say Thom? How about sponsoring a Mostly Bad--Thom Paine-- Writing Contest? It might be a hoot and you may even come up with an occasional pearl. I've already placed myself amongst the swine, by virtue of this post. Watching Bill Maher, sometimes does this to me. Never mind.
"Why do conservatives want to keep quality health care out of reach for Americans?" duh.........because.....
1. They (the Big-Cons) make more money this way.
2. We don't deserve it. (even our children)
3. It might even cost them something.
4. They don't really like all Americans
5. Out of reach? It's good to challenge people and it is kinda fun to make or watch them jump!
6. Ideology trumps sick people in need, any day!
7. Everyone knows greed doesn't exist in their world.
etc. etc. etc.
#3
I wish Bill Moyers would be appointed the interim Senator for Kennedy's seat. I bet Ted Kennedy would love that!
#4
If Dick Cheney could travel back in time, he'd have plenty of opportunities to discover how his favorite pastime was applied. Back in the olden days, the Romans considered the courtroom accounts given by slaves to be reliable only if it had been obtained through the infliction of bodily pain. During the Dark Ages, “expert testimony” was actually achieved through more chivalrous methods, like swearing more believably than an accuser, or whoever fell off a horse first during a joust. More thoughtful jurists found these methods unreliable, and for a few centuries clear evidence and reliable witnesses were deemed necessary to pass judgment or acquire information. No pleasure to be had there for our scowling time-traveler then.
But by the 14th century “evidence” extracted by torture became the preferred juridical device in many crowded courtrooms and dungeons in Europe, and continued to be so for the next 400 years. Then in the 19th century, jurists decided that “circumstantial evidence” in the absence of hard evidence or testimony was sufficient to ascertain guilt, and certainly more “humane” than extracting it through torture. Torture has made a comeback in the 20th century, and apparently even has found a home today in the U.S.—and not just in Jose Padilla’s jail cell, or in the warped minds of certain members of Bush administration.
Dick Cheney and his daughter’s pathetic attempts to cloud people’s minds with disingenuousness should be seen for what it is—self-serving hokum. Worse, I suspect that Cheney considers the “classical” justification for torture to his liking: Nothing a detainee says is “reliable” unless he’s been beaten to an inch of his life. Only then will you obtain the “truth.” Talk about delusional paranoia. The fact that Cheney seems devoid of moral or ethical reservations about the use of torture calls into question his own humanity—even as he denies the humanity of anyone fit in his warped mind for the infliction of intense pain and humiliation. Nothing he can say can change that impression.
Cheney’s belief that the U.S. was “saved” from further attacks on its soil is debatable for a reason that he has never backed it up with evidence. The Bush administration saw no problem with presenting to the world false and misleading information during the run-up to the Iraq war; why should it have been so reticent in presenting evidence of terror plots foiled that were actually true? Why should Bush and Cheney trumpet such farces as the Miami Seven and Padilla cases, yet keep everything else “secret?”
As an aside, it is interesting to note that while the Catholic Church sanctioned torture during the inquisition, it was the Catholic Saint Augustine who provided a most compelling ethical argument against the use of torture: “If the accused be innocent, he will undergo for an uncertain crime a certain punishment, and that not for having committed a crime, but because it is unknown whether he committed it.”
#5
Have you thought what gift you will be giving to your son and/or daughter? It's never too early to think about a Christmas gift.
For the Christmas of 2007 I gave our sons the best of all my previous gifts. It was a letter. Yes, a letter! The letter may also be sent to daughters.
Doug Soderstrom - "A Letter to My Son Regarding the Problem of War"
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/populist/2007/07/a-lette...
#6
Just wanted to bring something to everyones attention. As your well aware many sponsers for the Glen Beck show have dropped thier ads, one being walmart. But after a recent trip there I saw they still sells his books. Interesting...
#7
RE: Health Care
The Cost Of Doing Nothing? (or of doing nothing different)?
In some ways the health care debate is a little like debates about Renewable Energy options like solar hot water. There's a lot of focus on "payback" and return on investment, etc..., along with a preconception that what they are doing now works just great, so why consider something new, different, or with up-front costs. When I bring up the cost of doing nothing, and project what their current system will cost 20 or 25 years into the future (and throw in Peak Oil and Gas just for a little spice), they see that what they are doing now really "ain't so good" after all.
As for health care, the current system is *assumed* to be working great, and why let all these tax& spend liberals screw up our great system and get the "guv-ment" involved, since they never get anything right...
So, maybe we need to start by looking at what we have now, and all the ways it's really NOT working as well as most people think.
#8
Missouri school district bans t-shirts for acknowledging evolution.
T-shirts worn by members of the Smith-Cotton High School band have been recalled by the school district because they contained images of evolution. The t-shirts featured an image of a monkey holding a brass instrument and progressing through various stages of evolution until eventually becoming a human. “I was disappointed with the image on the shirt,” said Sherry Melby, a band parent who teaches in the district. “I don’t think evolution should be associated with our school.” Assistant superintendent Brad Pollitt explained that the t-shirts were banned because they were imposing on religious views.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/31/evolution-missouri-tshirt/
#9
Oh THOM!
Please, say it isn’t so . . . Max Baucus (D-Health Insurance Industry) is biased?!?!?
I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you to find that there is graft occurring in the Senate.
#10
Reynolds, others sue to stop parts of tobacco law
A group including some top U.S. tobacco companies filed a federal lawsuit on Monday to block provisions of a new tobacco law, arguing it violated their free speech rights under the U.S. constitution.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE57U50M20090831
#11
Go Thom! Blood sucking leeches - yesssssssssss!
Candlelight Vigil Ted Kennedy 7:30-8:30PM 16th & Broadway be prepared to sing Irish Eyes are Smiling-
Tower Theatre Neighborhood
16th & Broadway
16th & Broadway
Sacramento, CA 95818
Wednesday, 2 Sep 2009, 7:30 PM
Senator Ted Kennedy said this "Every American should have the opportunity to receive a quality education, a job that respects their dignity and protects their safety, and health care that does not condemn those whose health is impaired to a lifetime of poverty and lost opportunity." We can show our respects for him and his family this evening.
To invite people to sign up specifically for your event, send your invitees this link:
http://pol.moveon.org/event/publicoptionnow/98358
--The MoveOn.org Political Action Team
#12
Last week at Michele Bachmann's town hall on health care, she also used the UK as the whipping boy for government run health care horror stories. Coincidence? I doubt it. Almost all these deniers obtain their talking points from one or two sources; Heritage Foundation most often. Why don't they ever cite France? They have been rated best by the W.H.O for a long, long time.
#13
Yes, Heather . . . The number of folk the Health Insurance Industry kills each year is the statistic that tops it all.
#14
I sent Heather Higgins of the IWF an email telling her that I thought her interview with Thom Hartmann this morning was outrageous. I asked her not to pretend to defend or support women with her views on healthcare reform.
I'm disgusted by amoral people like her.
#15
et another horror given to us from the Bush Administration, see:
http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/IV/
INCOME VERIFICATION utilized to DENY benefits . . . From the web-site:
“By law VA is required to verify the self-reported gross household income (veteran, spouse and dependents, if any) of certain nonservice-connected or noncompensable 0% service-connected veterans to confirm the accuracy of their
Eligibility for VA health care
Copay status, and
Enrollment Priority Group assignment.
VA verifies veterans’ gross household income (spouse and dependents, if any) provided by the veteran on the financial assessment (means test). This financial information is verified by matching financial records maintained by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Social Security Administration (SSA). If the result of the income match reveals that the veteran’s gross household income is higher than the established VA National Income Thresholds, the veteran will be contacted via mail to help resolve the income discrepancy.”
#16
Thom,
I just heard your newscast. You mentioned that the west coast is predicted to experience a colder winter this year due to global warming. Here in Minnesota however it has been predicted that our winter will be milder... Not that that makes global warming OK. Maybe we won't have minus 40- to 60-degree windchills this year though.
#17
Thom,
Is the email you read where the guy replied to the anti health care person about his Veteran's Benefits versus his wife's Blue Cross somewhere on your site? I would LOVE to share that around.
Thanks.
#18
Independent Women's Forum Heather Higgins made an interesting comment for those she represents. She said: I want women to have a choice! Is this "choice" only limited to health care? I am glad to hear she believes in choice for women, but I suspect that she has not joined the women who want choice for their own bodies like reproductive rights and abortion, but she didn't specify only for health care. It would be good to keep that statement on record and use it like the opposition does.....when we need support for our other bodily choices!
#19
Cash for Geezers
Has anyone here read Jeremy Rifkin's The End of Work?
http://faculty.washington.edu/krumme/readings/rifkin.html
I have not, but given Rifkin, it sounds like he would support Thom--
Guest request? Economist Jeremy Rifkin?
#20
Thom,
Would those who retire at 55 under the "geezers" program idea be able to get Medicare?
When we looked into buying health care insurance a few years ago, we were told insurance companies don't offer reasonably priced health care insurance for anyone 60 years and older (up to 65). Many companies just don't offer any insurance for those over 60.
#21
I think it's time for a good old fashioned day national day of mourning. Shut everything down and just have a silent vigil for the sad little " f" fascist mess that our country has become. Congress is no longer able to serve flesh and blood people; it serves the paper people-corporations. If we can't get nation health care with between 60-70 % of human citizens in agreement there is no issue on which congress can reliably represent us. We need to get honest with ourselves and realize that we have become a country that's okay with torture and hunger and want, so long as it's the next guy.
You want a sound bite? "Serve people, not paper!"
#22
Here is a quote from Jeremy Rifkins book - "Jeremy Rifkin believes one day soon you will wake up and find that virtually every activity outside your immediate family has become a paid-for experience. Sound frightening? It should, Rifkin explains in his latest book, "The Age of Access." Here Rifkins talks with writer Tamara Straus about hypercapitalism, the dot-com generation, the Seattle protests and much more."
#23
This is a better link :
Welcome to the Office of Jeremy Rifkin and the Foundation on Economic Trends.
The Office of Jeremy Rifkin is operated by Jeremy R. Rifkin Enterprises, a sole proprietorship with the purpose of advancing Mr. Rifkin's written work and lecturing. The Foundation on Economic Trends is a non-profit 501(c)3 organization whose mission is to examine emerging trends in science and technology, and their impacts on the environment, the economy, culture, and society.
He likes what he sees in Europe and in many of his readings implies the European model would be a good model to follow:
You must see this link! http://www.foet.org/
#24
At the core of every issue today facing America is our trade policy. Hush Hush...........2-Party-Trap!
#25
As a British Citizen I find myself in the odd position of needing to defend a government funded institution. Our National Health Service is far from perfect, in fact I have a lot of gripes about it. However, I'd be willing to bet significant funds on the fact that higher than 95% of the population would never want to exchange it for the US system.
It should never be forgotten that this system has been under constant attack by each and every government since Thatcher got in in 1979. Since then, as each year goes by it has grown more and more 'monetized' and more like the US system and that is entirely to blame for its current decline.
#26
The ability for our US health insurance companies to claim that their record of curing breast cancer (for example) is exemplary is due to the fact that they kick those people off the program that will make their numbers not look good (ie die).
#27
Heather Higgins' statements are ridiculous, but expected given that she represents the "Independent Women's Forum" (IWF). The "Independent Women's Forum" could hardly be any more anti-woman! Founded in 1992, the IWF grew out of the ad hoc group, "Women for Judge Thomas!"
According to "Independent Women's Forum’s" Mission statement, their mission "is to rebuild civil society by advancing economic liberty, personal responsibility, and political freedom. IWF builds support for a greater respect for limited government, equality under the law, property rights, free markets, strong families, and a powerful and effective national defense and foreign policy." It should also come as no surprise that the IWF is funded largely through donations from CONSERVATIVE foundations, notably three of Richard Mellon Scaife’s four private, nonprofit foundations. Richard Mellon Scaife’s mother, Sarah Mellon and her brother were heirs to the Mellon fortune that included Mellon Bank and major stakes in Gulf Oil and Alcoa Aluminum. Donations from those three foundations totaled $2,075,000 - 27% of the total $7,651,000 received from 19 foundations.
If you skim through their policy briefs (http://www.iwf.org/publications/), you can see their real mission. The "Independent Women's Forum" is AGAINST:
• Universal Health Care
• SCHIP (state health care programs for Children)
• Title IX (funding for women's sports programs)
• Paid Sick Leave and the Family Medical Leave Act (basically ANY government-mandated leave policies)
• Living Wage ordinances/policies
• Anti-obesity programs
• Card check (Unions)
• Death Tax
• Decriminalization of any drugs, including marjuana
• Green Technologies
• Government-funded Preschool and Head Start programs
The "Independent Women's Forum" is FOR:
• Religious schooling, including use of school vouchers and Opportunity Scholarship Program funding for those schools
• "Lower Taxes, Less Government!"
• Traditional Marriage (and ONLY TRADITIONAL Marriage)
• "Creating Social Security and pension systems that provide women with the maximum opportunity to save and invest" - code for PRIVATIZING SOCIAL SECURITY!!!
In short, the “Independent Women’s Forum” is about as ANTI-WOMAN as you can get!
#28
Frigid 2010 Forecast: How Cold will the Winter Weather Be?
Old Man Winter doesn’t want to give up his frigid hold just yet, but his hold will mostly be in the middle of the country.
According to the 2010 Farmers’ Almanac, this winter will see more days of shivery conditions: a winter during which temperatures will average below normal for about three-quarters of the nation.
A large area of numbingly cold temperatures will predominate from roughly east of the Continental Divide to west of the Appalachians (see map). The coldest temperatures will be over the northern Great Lakes and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. But acting almost like the bread of a sandwich, to this swath of unseasonable cold will be two regions with temperatures that will average closer to normal—theWest Coast and the East Coast.
http://www.farmersalmanac.com/weather/a/frigid-2010-forecast-how-cold-wi...
#29
Your nice economist missed a MAJOR point about "Cash for Geezers".
Of Geezers who retire, many or most will continue to enrich our nation through volunteerism. You can sit on your butt watching TV only so long ...
... nearly ALL of the volunteers at my favorite store (Mercer Island Youth and Family Services Thrift Store) are retired (some in their 90s!) but we could use a new cohort of young 55 years olds so we can better serve families.
Other geezers would contribute in their own ways: babysitting the grandkids, teaching local kids how to fish, helping out at church, growing veggies, whatever. Your "Cash for Geezers" program, by shifting jobs in the economy to a younger cohort, will INCREASE overall economic activity because most Geezers will continue to produce ... just in different ways than before.
#30
Are we ever going to elect someone who will try to fulfill the peoples' dreams and aspirations rather than just triangulate for re-election? We had high hopes for Bill C. and he cozied up to Wall St. and the free traders. Then Barack said the right things, got elected, and right away hired the same crew that Bill listened to, saw to it that the Banks and Wall St. were bailed out and not held liable for their mistakes,then made a deal with Pharma & the Insurance Industry, (AARP), and gave up hoops for the golf course. Is there some room into which they take the new President and show him and tell him something which accounts for this transformation and compels his obedience to the machine? Or is the answer simpler?....were we just fooled again? I have not given up hope for the kind of changes Thom advocates for so eloquently , nor have I abandoned Obama but I am sure he will not step forward without a hell of a strong shove from progressives. He'll be content just being Prez. otherwise. He likes the trappings and position. It remains to see if he really likes the work and is willing to stick out his neck for the people who elected him.
#31
ASPARTAME! - received email requesting support to push Kraft to redo Mac & Cheese to the healthier EUROPEAN formula for the USA! Yeah! The push is starting against Aspartame, high fructose corn syrup, etc.!
"Did you know that Kraft Macaroni and Cheese is formulated differently for countries in Europe than for the U.S.?
Crazy, but true! The fact is, that in 2008, Kraft removed artificial colorings, like yellow #5, and chemical sweeteners, like aspartame, from the products that they distribute in Europe, Australia, and other developed countries due to consumer concern over scientific studies that link these synthetic ingredients to hyperactivity and asthma in children. But, they haven’t done the same thing here in the U.S., our voices are needed to make that change here too!"
http://momsrising.democracyinaction.org/o/1768/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY...
#32
Every American should read this article
"Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR200908...
It's all good, but here's two snippets:
The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.
Also:
Which, in turn, punctures the most persistent myth of all: that America has "the finest health care" in the world. We don't. In terms of results, almost all advanced countries have better national health statistics than the United States does. In terms of finance, we force 700,000 Americans into bankruptcy each year because of medical bills. In France, the number of medical bankruptcies is zero. Britain: zero. Japan: zero. Germany: zero.
But really, let's just leave things the way they are....
#33
The number of jobs isn't finite? Thanks, John Lott. I'll go right out today and get one of those infinite jobs out there.
#34
ASPARTAME
thx I lived in Britain for a year at an early age and was fortunate to be mentored by some savvy European women and activists in general. Consequently, I am sitting down to some Amy's MAC and Cheese as we speak lol not from Whole Foods either, our local coop.
Everyone can find a coop near them here http://www.localharvest.org
#35
Ana Marie Cox had an interesting discussion on her Air America Web/Pod-cast on or about 08/07/09 (Examining Tea-baggers at Health Town Meetings). She posited the issue with protests/street theater is it no longer has impact. Vigils (yada, yada) are nice for the participants but are large relegated to O.P.S. (Other People Stuff) by the public at large. Whether due lack of corporate media coverage or public fatigue with grassroots protests, the causes are more likely to be hurt, if they are noted at all.
I tend to believe that the event must be focused to impact a specific audience to have any effect. Mass events not on a specific someone’s doorstep, are a waste of energy that could be . . NEEDS to be . . . more effectively directed.
#36
QC Holdings may be a payday lender:
#37
My reference to QC Holdings concern Thom's query about Rep Jenkins (R-Kansas) seen here mocking a working American http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPrYviZtVrs&feature=player_embedded who seems to have gotten a lotta money from QC Holdings, the payday loan vultures.
#38
$1000 Per Day Fine & 30 Days In Jail For Refusing the Swine Flu Vaccine In Massachusetts
A new law just passed in Massachusetts imposes fines of up to $1,000 per day and up to 30 days in jail for disobeying authorities during a public health emergency. Analysts fear this is the start of a disturbing new trend as health authorities in the US gear up for the biggest vaccination campaign in the nation's history.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14899
#39
Terrific article by Michael Lind @salon.com, "Can Obama give em hell before it's too late." The second page lists ways we can name our enemy and frame the debate to help the skeptical, already-insured middle class support reform.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/09/01/demagogy/?source=newsletter
#40
@Connie Bell:
The Independent Women’s Forum is committed to forcing all women to be independent by ostracizing and abandoning them . . . While no man is an island . . . Every woman needs to be alone and desperate and wholly without support systems and community.
#41
Thom Hartmann's favorite APARTHEID fascist genocidal cabal is now stoking more aggression.
Hamas: 2 men killed in Gaza
exactly what happened last time......unable to defend themselves the Palestinians have two choices....die a slow death of assassinations by the Israeli fascists or lash out and be portrayed as the aggressors.
...and Thom Hartmann can't wait to get home and stroke himself over the mere thought of death, bloodletting and body parts . all part of Hartmann's mental deficiency and KKKristian cult armageddon complex which spurs on this deviant bloodthirsty psychopathy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090901/ml-israel-palestinians/
#42
Richard,
The point you made about events may be true but perhaps, like spiritual practices, even if the practice or event doesn't do much but inspire the practitioner, (or the event-goer) isn't it still worthwhile? Joining together is important for staying motivated and reminding us of our supportive community.
#43
DRichards,
'Looks like we have dueling websites. Locally, I've heard MN forecasters predicting an above-normal temp. average.
Here's what seems to be the confirmation:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/long_range/seasonal.ph...
I think that many economists and weather forecasters would claim that prediction is an art, though.
#44
Hi Quark,
Can you interpret the data for me? I live in Portland, Oregon. If I create a raised bed from musty hay can I grow basil and chard all year? :-)
#45
Loretta,
I must be duller than usual today... I'm not sure what you're asking me.
#46
Loretta,
I was only going on what local forecasters have been saying. Is that what you're getting at?
#47
I listen to your show most every day and if you’ve read my e-mails you know I totally agree with you, and I think you have a clear vision on almost every issue. That said, I agree with you on Afghanistan. It’s a mess – call it what you like – it could bring us down like it did to the USSR. We’ll have to see if Obama can preserve our country through this debacle.
Before 9 this morning you were talking with Carl and Christine, and I just hope that you realize that there is no quarter with the Christian Right. They will ALWAYS HATE YOU. POINT BLANK, PERIOD. They are your (our) enemies, by their own declaration, and they will always be the enemies of progressivism and liberalism. Don’t ever make the mistake that there is any way to make peace with these people. That is not in their world view. They are steeped in the rhetoric and ideology of Murdoch, and it’s only getting worse every day. I don’t watch Fox. I don’t get it on my TV, but I’ve watched videos on YouTube. The stuff I see is totally crazy talk, but people listen to this stuff and believe it.
From what I can see: we can never go back to the pre-Regan world of party cooperation, and bipartisanship. It’s just not possible. I do graphic design and I came across an old picture that I captured from my early work. It’s a picture of Bob Dole with a scowl on his face, with Newt standing behind him with an equally mean scowl. I had imposed a dialog balloon in the picture with Dole saying “if we can’t get our way the country can go to hell!”. That was 14 years ago! If people can’t understand this truth they need to go back over the insane history of the last 20 years in politics in this country. From the address by Newt to the empty house chamber questioning the patriotism of Democrats THEN – to today. Al Gore called it a political cold war. It continues today.
I talk to some of these far right Christians. I’m related to some of them, and they’re scared to death! They truly believe the lies coming out of Fox. They are addicted to that propaganda, and have literally been brainwashed by the rhetoric. The warped thinking, the polls with the warped methodology, and the constant barrage of lies has shaped these peoples minds – as if they were raised and schooled in a madrasa. Take heed, and be careful! Don’t think for a minute that you can ever have any meeting of minds, or peace with some of these people.
These guys we’re seeing at the public meetings with their guns – they’re trying to spread that intense fear that they feel themselves. That fear that’s been put into them by Fox and the NRA. The gun dealers are laughing all the way to the bank with the gouged profits they are making on these frightened people.
#48
Where is a link to that letter from the man who described his VA coverage to that of his wife from Blue Cross Blue Shield.
Fantastic. I need it! Help!
#49
Quark,
I clicked the link you posted and couldn't quite decipher the data. Since you had posted it, I was hoping you could help me figure out what it meant for Oregon's three-month forecast.
I was trying to figure out from your link the long-term forecast for Northern Oregon. I'll have to take a bit more time with it.
#50
Quark:
I see now. That's a cool site! A few northern states will have quite a bit of above normal temperature during various months. For Oregon, however, growing winter basil doesn't seem to be in the cards. Great reference site. thanks Quark!
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/long_range/seasonal.ph...
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By webmaster
Hello All
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Candlelight Vigil in Portland, Oregon tomorrow night. (Wednesday September 2nd)
Public Option NOW! Candlelight Vigil
Terry Schrunk Plaza
180 registered participant(s) (1000 maximum)
SW 3rd & SW Main
Portland, OR 97204
Directions: SW 3rd & SW Madison -- Terry Schrunk Plaza. Directly opposite Senator Wyden's office building.
Hosted by Ruth Fredine, John Vareldzis
Description We will be holding a candlelight vigil to bring attention to the urgent need for healthcare reform with a public option. Every day people lose their insurance. Many people are excluded coverage because of pre-existing conditions. And many people simply can't afford it. We need reform that will address all these needs now.
We will provide some candles, but it would be great if you could bring your own, too. Please also bring some signs for while we're getting set up (while it's getting dark enough).