Highlights on the Show...November 23 - November 27, 2009

Thom hartmann books imagesMonday - KPOJ's Carl & Christine fill in for Thom

Hour Two: "Turkey, Native Americans, Pilgrims...oh my!" Kenneth Davis stops to do some Thanksgiving myth-busting www.dontknowmuch.com

Hour Three: "What do we do about Afghanistan?" Former State Dept. contractor Matthew Hoh drops by along with filmmaker Robert Greenwald to "Rethink Afghanistan" www.rethinkafghanistan.com

Tuesday - KPOJ's Carl & Christine fill in for Thom


rewinn (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Friday a new meme launched, about email stolen from CRU 'proving' global warming is a hoax. The meme is debunked here: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

I have been following the SyFy Channel series "Stargate Universe" on Fridays. A song was played during the opening and closing credits that was so appropriate for life in these United States --- "The Worst Day Since Yesterday" by Flogging Molly. It's lyrics seemed so appropriate; they made me laugh. (Since there is no "anything goes Friday" blog, I hope you all don't mind it posted here.)

'Hope anyone who listens enjoys it, too!

Here's a Google link (the option from lala.com with the "play" arrow has the entire song:


Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

This link works (if the other one doesn't):


Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

If you have read my comments, you are well aware of how much I oppose war and the killing of God's children. Here is an example of my dislike for wars. May God have mercy on our fascist-Nazi nation!


Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Quark, thank you for your words on my post, "The Great Eight!"

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I was talking with a friend of Jeremy's (the PTSD vet who had the standoff with the police at my house a little over a week ago.) I said that, in order to get most people to kill, the military literally makes them sociopaths. Then, without undoing the harm they have caused, they drop them back into society after they are through with them. Somehow, most veterans of war seem to live a decent life without killing anyone else. (I knew an awful lot of shattered human beings who were never the same after returning from Vietnam. And we have to add all the others from the numerous wars since that time.) Put in these terms though, I realized what a crime on humanity this is... (And this is only ONE aspect of war and its effects.)

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


Thank YOU for your post. It seems insane that humanity can't be led by its BEST thinkers.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Quark, you shared onThom's and with me a profound comment about Jeremy and others. What concerns me is that many of these vets are recruited into law enforcement. Is there any wonder why these offices over react. I try to stay away from any law enforcement officer.

Quark, we have people who can think but our nation is divided and the sociopaths are running our governmental asylums in the WH, Congress, and the Supreme Court as well as the mass media.

Quark, here is my belief. We need more people who possess love, mercy, and forgiveness in their heart. Jesus, a liberal and a progressive, needs to be our role model. Jesus has love, mercy, and forgiveness in His heart. I know Jesus as the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

Quark, here is a quote from G. K. Chesterton, an English writer and poet. He past away in 1936. JESUS SPEAKS SANITY TO A WORLD OF LUNATICS.

Quark, here is also another favorite quote from Mahatma Gandhi. I LIKE YOUR JESUS; IT'S YOUR CHRISTIANS I DO NOT LIKE.

Quark, here is a perfect quote from G. K. Chesterton. He must have had the USA on his mind. IT'S NOT THAT CHRISTIANITY HAS BEEN TRIED AND FAILED; IT'S THAT IT HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED. Maybe if the USA had more Christian thinking, we could resolve many problems regarding our inhumanity toward humanity.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Is it just me, or is the media intentionally persuing a campaign of disinformation with regard to health care reform, and to "how government works" in general?

I heard several times over this past weekend that now that debate has begun in the Senate, the Democrats need 60 votes to pass the bill. This is NONSENSE! They can pass the bill with 51 votes - they only need 60 votes to end debate and bring the measure to the floor to be voted on. Do the media honchos see this as too fine a distinction for all of us mindless drones out here in the real world, or do they think that this meme makes the story more interesting (like my father-in-law often says - never let the facts screw up a good story!).

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Those who insist that America is a Christian nation understand neither Christianity nor America.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thanksgiving Day Thought from 11/20/09

It is worth noting that one in eight kids in Los Angeles goes hungry all the time and over 75% of kids in LAUSD qualify for for some sort of food assistance program. The real mark of the 'free market' policies our nation has followed for the last 30 years is written in their flesh.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thanksgiving Day Thought for 11/23/09

It is worth noting that one in seven SFH are in forclosure or behind in their payents most directly due to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which repealed the safeguards and bank regulations found in Glass-Steagull that kept this Libertarion like, free-market wet-dream from happening for 60 years.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@Richard L. Adlof - Spelling Correction?

Shouldn't that be "... this Libert-Aryan free-market wet-dream..." ?

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Prior post with apologies to Gerald Socha. :)

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Does the current atmosphere of Tea-Parties, Red-Baiting, etc. bring to anyone else's mind (besides mine) the great Rock & Roll scare of the late 50's and early 60's, when Beatles albums were being burned?

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I still object to Mr. Socha’s usage of ‘Nazi’. Such frivolous, irresponsible language marginalizes serious discussion and trivializes the horrors of rampant fascism the past and the present.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


The issue I have with the ‘rule of the best and brightest’ argument is that the NEO-CONs fervently believe that their oligarchy is the best and the brightest.

Give me the unfaltering, unenlightened stupidity of the common man with a cooling off period every time.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I understand the point you are attempting to make about Christianity. I wholeheartedly disagree.

The man called Salvation was not progressive. He was largely petty and had expressed an incomplete understanding of the tenets of his religious philosophy. Paul rewrote the story into a myth of Rapturian fantasy.

Christianity is a poor model of religion and a completely inappropriate for application as the basis of any government for any society.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thom's host narrators had some discussion of Central Asia. We will never leave Afghanistan because we want to be close to the oil and natural gas resources in that area.

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@Richard L. Adlof -

The only reason for my apology to GS is that I have also objected to his overuse of the "fascist Nazi-America" meme in this venue. Seemed kinda cheap of me to make an "aryan" joke here without some level of acknowledgement that I'd criticized him for such language in the past.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

The path I wish to follow is the path that Jesus has laid out for us in the Bible. He is a beautiful example of a liberal and a progressive role model.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

All I can say to the people who oppose my language that the United States of Evil is a fascist-Nazi nation is HEIL COMRADES.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Unlike most Nazi Americans I refuse to remain in a state of denial that we are a fascist-Nazi nation.

Nazi America

Here are the fourteen characteristics that are necessary for a Nazi nation. America currently possesses all fourteen characteristics.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
5. Rampant sexism
6. A controlled mass media
7. Obsession with national security
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together
9. Power of corporations protected
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
12. Obsession with crime and punishment
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
14. Fraudulent elections

There should be no doubt in anyway in the people’s minds that America is a fascist nation. Rapidly the self-implosion and destruction of America are starting to take hold. America is no longer America but she is now called Nazi America.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago
Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

The fourteen points that states we are Nazi Americans is strong evidence of truism.

Mark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

The Seattle Times reported that a local janitorial service released hundreds of workers from its employment roles. This came after a federal auditor reviewed its personnel records and determined that these people could not prove that they were in the country legally. This is the part of the new Obama administration strategy to move away from the showy ICE raids that the Bush administration was so fond of. What should be noted here is that businesses are still not being subjected to legal sanction, and in fact are being given extended time to “comply” in order to find replacement workers. The workers who are fired, in the meantime, remain on the audit list subject to interrogation and deportation.

The janitorial service, interestingly enough, is owned by a right-wing talk show host on KVI, a notorious local right-wing talk station that is only slightly redeemed by the fact that it carries “Coast-to-Coast” in the late hours—meaning then we get interesting BS rather than just plain old BS. It was not noted the ethnicity of the workers involved, although I once worked at a site that deployed workers from this service, and many of them were Eastern European; one might recall that in 2003 a raid on a janitorial service employed by Wal-Mart netted 300 mostly Eastern European illegals in 60 stores. I point this out only because anti-immigrant fanatics tend to ignore the fact that one-quarter of all illegals are from places outside of Latin American.

Mark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Since people are talking about Nazis, it should be recalled that Nazi propaganda sought to demonize certain races through stereotyping, and provide Germans with scapegoats to explain the country's problems. The people who compose on this page may be upset by any implication that they may not be free from racial prejudice (and I am not suggesting that are--did that come out right?), but to sit here and deny that the right does incite hate against the "others," and to deny that the murders of Latinos in Shenandoah, PA and Long Island occurred in an atmosphere created by local officials using the same propaganda of hate that the Nazis used is simply a head-in-the-sand attitude.

loretta (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

The comparison between Nazi Germany and the US is effective because although much of US history was left out of our school textbooks, Nazi Germany was given lots of space. All of us feel horrified to be compared to Nazi Germany. It was when I realized George Bush was using similar tactics as Hitler that I got off my butt and started taking action.

We are responsible for what our government does here and around the world whether or not the people we voted for get elected. We currently have more blood on our hands than Hitler's Germany, and unless we accept this fact, we will keep our heads in the sand and underestimate the urgency of the daily actions we need to take in order to change our country's policies.

DRichards (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Red Alert: The Second Wave of The Financial Tsunami
The Wave Is gathering force & could hit between the first & second quarter of 2010

By Matthias Chang

URL of this article: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16218

mstaggerlee (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@Gerald Soha -

A couple of questions -

1) Can we have a source for your 14 points?

2) Assuming, for the moment, that I accept all 14 points as necessary for a fascist Nazi nation (note that we're not discussing sufficiency, yet), can you name an industrialized nation in today's world that DOES NOT satisfy those 14 conditions?

3) Given your obvious dissatisfaction with "Nazi America", is there an existing GOVERNMENT system under which you'd prefer to live?

Wendy Yohe (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

I miss Thom but I LOVE you Carl & Christine!! Socialist single payer Baby Jesus is priceless!! =) Thank you Thom for giving us this dynamic duo in your absence.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thanksgiving Day Thought for 11/24/09: It is worth noting that the SAME Libertarian-like, broken free-market ideals lead to the minimum wages being frozen for 30 years, also, wiped out anti-usury protections and money being shoveled into banking institutions. Now, American children can experience real Dickensian Christmases for themselves.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@GeraldSocha: The man called ‘salvation’ killed trees out of spite and preached adherence to the edicts of an oppressive occupying force and stirred descent amongst his own people. None of these are solid principles for good governance or progressive in nature. The ideals I believe that you attempting to ‘deify’ such as Tzdekha and Tikkun Olam flowed directly from mainstream Judaism and just part of Halakaic living.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


Nazis is a political party that once held power in a foreign country and did some truly horrible things. Nazis and Nazism has extremely charged emotional impact due to those evil actions and the hyperbole of the misuse and misapplication of those concepts trivializes their heinous nature. In America, they have never been anything other than a marginalized, trivial political party.

While Nazi movement is fascist in nature, it is not the most prevalent brand of fascism in America. In America, the most prevalent form of fascism is the abdication to unfettered corporatism. The abdication to unfettered corporatism is not Nazism. It is way scarier as it is utterly devoid the humanity displayed in Nazism. In unfettered corporatism, flesh and blood humans are assigned resource value only and are wholly disposable . . . Not even worth the expense of resources to dispose of them.

You marginalize your arguments through your attempt to co-opt and reframe the bullshit languaging of the recessivists. Your adherence to this rhetorical flourish spills over onto the rest of us here and trivializes our attempts at communication simply by your proximity to us. I recognize that you have a right to express yourself as you choose and, please, understand that I am suggesting that there are more effective ways to encode your message.

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@loretta: Your languaging of ‘Nazi-like’ has validity. A body of evidence exists to support that interpretation. It is the directly labeling the issues as actual Nazi or Nazism that falls WAAAAAY flat.

loretta (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thanks Richard.

Is anyone going to a WTO protest in their area. Lets report back here afterward to share stories.


If you have a little extra cash could you send some to our Defend Oregon campaign. Could you also ask a few friends to do the same. So many thanks if you are able to donate and spread the word.


We have a huge battle against corporate greed coming up here in Oregon. We simply want to raise an outdated corporate tax that hasn't been changed since 1931... yes you read that right... 1931. Currently we have multi-million dollar corporations who pay $10 per year in corporate taxes. Naturally these corporations use roads, send kids to school, accept fire protection, police protection and all of the benefits from the commons but do not wish to pay their fair share.

Big dollars are going to be spent to fight this minuscule raise in their taxes.

If you could donate to this cause it would help fight corporate greed.

Thank you!

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thanksgiving Day Thought for 11/25/09: It is worth noting that over 45,000 people of all ages die each year because a handful of ‘Conservative’ DEMs and the entire elected caucus of the other major American political party would rather abdication governance to unfettered corporatism, label that ‘Free Market and collect campaign contributions from the company’s they NEED to be regulating for the good of our country. When you are sitting around your table tomorrow and note that empty chair, give thanks for the pretense of Libertarian principles.

DDay (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thom & Louise,

Carl told us all on yesterday's show that you would be back today. I thought that was unfortunate. Flying over to Spain and giving a speech, only to hurry back seemed a great tragedy to me. I love Europe. Some days I wish I could pack up and move there. I think their lifestyles are better there. Of course I was glad to learn that you would be on air again today, although I thought Carl & Christine did a great job of filling in. I felt better when I heard you were still over there, but, finding out that you are in Barcelona made me jealous. It is pretty gaudy of you. :-) ....have a few tapas for me!

Richard L. Adlof (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

BIG government CREATES jobs.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

Thom and Louise,

I agree with DDay. I hope you have a wonderful time in Spain. (Barcelona is very special to me. I have loved and wshed I could see Gaudi's wondrous designs for over 30 years!)

DDay (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

@Richard L. Adlof,

Thank you for your yeoman's work pushing back on all the tiresome Nazi talk too prevalent here. For me it's an issue of hygiene. No one enjoys being close to the guy who eschews soap and enjoys passing gas all the time. It is insulting to the senses and it's continual repetition is insulting to our intelligence. Your posts are a breath of fresh air.

I wish you and all others here a warm and happy Turkey Day.

DDay (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I knew you would get my little joke. I love smart women. Gobble Gobble!

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


"Smarts" have always been at the top of my list, too! 'Back at you!

'Hope you and your family have a lovely Thanksgiving.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

I sincerely wish we could send this conversation about trade with China to Obama.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I'm sorry, but Dan Gainor always sounds like a breathless alarmist. If he were at the "water cooler", I'd walk away.

loretta (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

I disagree wtih Richard and Dday on Gerald's use of Nazi comparisons. I feel there is validity in the passionate comparisons and as we all know, we are all much closer to agreeing than disagreeing, on most issues anyway.

The point Gerald is making is that our political activism is as urgently needed today as it was in Nazi Germany. And if we don't re-route our government with dedicated political activism we will be written into history books as being as guilty as Germans who did not fight their own Nazi government.

There is absolutely no reason to censor Geradl's opinions. He has as much right to share them as anyone else on this blog.

I would like to offer this solution: Gerald, I think that if you limited yourself to one or two Nazi-comparison posts per day your voice would be more effective.

Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

mstaggerlee, the source for the fourteen points that makes us a Nazi nation is from several articles I read while Hitler Bush was president.

Thom is a great teacher and I have learned much from him. But, we disagree in one area. He is unwilling to say that Stalinista Obama is a one term president.

I will say it!!!


HE IS A FAILED PRESIDENT!!!!! I knew it two months into his presidency!!!

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


As usual, your words of wisdom are solid enough to hang my hat on. Well said.

Quark (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago


I concur with much of what you say. Please do try to meditate or do something a little calming, though. I care about your health. (Mike Malloy speaks truth, too, but I had to stop listening to him. I kept worrying about his seeming impending breakdown or coronary...)


Gerald Socha (not verified) 13 years 27 weeks ago

loretta, thank you you for the words. I am trying to shake people from their comfort zones and in their state of denial as to the real America we live in.

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