Thursday December 3 2009

capatalism imagesQuote:  “It is a tragic mix-up when the United States spends $500,000 for every enemy soldier killed, and only $53 annually on the victims of poverty." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Hour One - Lessons from Spain...what we won't talk about, but must!

Hour Two  "Everything You Know is Wrong" "The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism" with Howard Bloom howardbloom.net

plus: "The End of Poverty" Phillipe Diaz www.theendofpoverty.com  Opening nationwide Friday 12/4

Hour Three - Is health care going to take your guns away? Larry Pratt www.gunowners.org

Comments

molmsted (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#1

And another 100,000 civilians dead.

Mark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#2

What is it that causes some humans to glorify war? It cannot be denied. Those on the progressive, anti-war left don’t understand it, perhaps because they don’t want the prospect of being shot at to interfere with their lives. But many people, particularly Southerners for some reason, think that the military and the prospect of fighting an enemy is the highest ideal, and gives “meaning” to their existence. Officers especially feel “incomplete” without the experience of war; after all, war—or the glory of war—is their reason for being. Being a “great captain” in the military history books still has some pull on the imagination of some dreamers, but I have to admit that as I have grown older, accounts of the fight for justice (the Dreyfus Affair), and the defense of conscience (Thomas Beckett, Thomas More) have had a greater pull on my imagination.

History, as it has been said, is nothing but war and politics. So we are fascinated by Alexander the Great’s attempted conquest of the known world, marching with a modest army from Macedonia to India. Why? What motivated him to march his weary men thousands of miles in mostly tractless, arid conditions for no particularly purpose but personal glory? Why did Napoleon march all over Europe, in the process wiping out a whole generation of French men—merely for “La Gloire?” Although there may be underlying motivations involved—Hitler, for example, wanted additional “living space” for the “master race,” the agricultural and oil resources of Russia, and the destruction of European Jewry—most people fascinated by war are those who think in terms of the “glory” of it. Americans, of course, like to fancy themselves as above such petty considerations, and in a few instances—such as WW II and the subsequent reconstructions of Germany and Japan—the U.S. can rightly point to with some glad-handing. But other conflicts, such as the Mexican and Spanish-American wars, Vietnam and Iraq—motivations are much more open to question and doubt. It seems the weaker the perceived enemy, the less Americans need a moral justification to kill the “dark races.”

However, I think it is a bit hypocritical for some of us to express shock and dismay at Obama’s “reversal” of his promise; he never made any such promise to leave Afghanistan in the status quo. I have to credit Ed Schultz with being honest enough to point out to his listeners that Obama’s Afghanistan surge should not surprise anybody—this is what he told us he would do during the campaign, and many of his supporters readily agreed with this. Getting business done in Afghanistan should always have been the Bush administration’s first—and only—priority. It seems clear by now that Afghanistan served as a convenient pretext for the invasion of Iraq; Bush and Cheney had planned the Iraqi invasion before 9-11—they may even have secretly desired some kind of provocation (just not the kind that occurred). But for most Americans, we had an understandable motive for invading Afghanistan, but because we did not go there in force, sending most troops to Iraq, we find ourselves in the mess we are currently in. I have a difficult time in seeing how this will end well, but if it has a chance to, it has to be by the carrot and stick approach that Obama has proposed.

Obama is also giving this “surge” a definite timeline to work, or not. And none too soon for troops who have seen too many deployments. I have just read that many troops with “mental health” issues are being given “potent psychotropic” drugs to make them “fit” to return to combat. What will happen when these drugged soldiers return from combat is something society will be forced to deal with, since the military seems loath to do so itself.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#3

Louise,

I have not been able to enter the chat room since this new website was created. I have tried to get help from your webmaster, to no avail. I have downloaded the latest version of Java. Please help.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#4

Louise,

P.S.

I am running the latest version of Windows XP + updates.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#5

BLOG -

"A blog (a contraction of the term "web log")[1] is a type of website, usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video. Entries are commonly displayed in reverse-chronological order. "Blog" can also be used as a verb, meaning to maintain or add content to a blog.

Many blogs provide commentary or news on a particular subject; others function as more personal online diaries. A typical blog combines text, images, and links to other blogs, Web pages, and other media related to its topic. >The ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs. < Most blogs are primarily textual, although some focus on art (Art blog), photographs (photoblog), videos (Video blogging), music (MP3 blog), and audio (podcasting). Microblogging is another type of blogging, featuring very short posts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#6

Mark,

Producers of the Thom Hartmann Show refer to this as a "Live Blog."

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#7

Mark -

Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over:

Taliban demand evidence of Bin Laden's guilt
* Second week of airstrikes starts
* Taliban urges US to halt bombing

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 14 October 2001 22.19 BST

President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.
Returning to the White House after a weekend at Camp David, the president said the bombing would not stop, unless the ruling Taliban "turn [bin Laden] over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostages they hold over." He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty". In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".
more at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

Now I emphatically do not know what happened on 9/11. I do know that on 9/10/01 Bush had a plan to invade Afghanistan on his desk.

Bush planned to be a "war president," as told to Mickey Herskowitz.

"War is a Racket," as Gen. Butler tells us, profits for the very few, who democracy aside, always manage to overrun the overwhelming desire for peace in populations that know and experience war. Hence the recent "all volunteer army," if the populace were truly engaged, American opinion would be focused, unlike the present.

As to the veterans (and my father was a pharmacist for the V.A. dealing with Vietnam era vets for years,) remember that in Rome, the conquering Roman legions were never to returned to Rome, they were given retirement plots in the newly "Roman" lands. The tragedy of veterans is well known and an implicit in every conflict.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#8

Geeky science note: LHC now most powerful collider, surpassing Tevatron, BBC reports. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8385891.stm

Thom, please interview Dr. Lisa Randall, Harvard, (author Warped Passages) about Branes, Strings and Particles and the LHC.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#9

Spanish Civil War:

For Whom the Bell Tolls --- Ernest Hemingway

Sad, very good...

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#10

Spain did recognize the death of Franco with the return of Guernica to Spain. It used to hang at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC.

Hemingway's "The Fifth Column" is also about the Spanish Civil War.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#11

Zero G.,

Yes, I saw it (Guernica) at MOMA. Horrifying.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#12

I spent a lot of time there, after seeing Guernica, and it hung so you could not miss it as you came up a stairway, I would take refuge with Monet's Water Lilies...

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#13

Zero G.,

I was completely unprepared for Guernica's size --- 3.5 metre (11 ft) tall and 7.8 metre (25.6 ft) wide. As I recall, it took most of the wall. (Yes, I loved the museum, too, including Water Lilies.)

John (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#14

Who wrote the poem about the Franco years and what was it's name?

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#16

I'm Explaining a Few Things

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You are going to ask: and where are the lilacs?
and the poppy-petalled metaphysics?
and the rain repeatedly spattering
its words and drilling them full
of apertures and birds?
I'll tell you all the news.

I lived in a suburb,
a suburb of Madrid, with bells,
and clocks, and trees.

From there you could look out
over Castille's dry face:
a leather ocean.
My house was called
the house of flowers, because in every cranny
geraniums burst: it was
a good-looking house
with its dogs and children.
Remember, Raul?
Eh, Rafel? Federico, do you remember
from under the ground
my balconies on which
the light of June drowned flowers in your mouth?
Brother, my brother!
Everything
loud with big voices, the salt of merchandises,
pile-ups of palpitating bread,
the stalls of my suburb of Arguelles with its statue
like a drained inkwell in a swirl of hake:
oil flowed into spoons,
a deep baying
of feet and hands swelled in the streets,
metres, litres, the sharp
measure of life,
stacked-up fish,
the texture of roofs with a cold sun in which
the weather vane falters,
the fine, frenzied ivory of potatoes,
wave on wave of tomatoes rolling down the sea.

And one morning all that was burning,
one morning the bonfires
leapt out of the earth
devouring human beings --
and from then on fire,
gunpowder from then on,
and from then on blood.
Bandits with planes and Moors,
bandits with finger-rings and duchesses,
bandits with black friars spattering blessings
came through the sky to kill children
and the blood of children ran through the streets
without fuss, like children's blood.

Jackals that the jackals would despise,
stones that the dry thistle would bite on and spit out,
vipers that the vipers would abominate!

Face to face with you I have seen the blood
of Spain tower like a tide
to drown you in one wave
of pride and knives!

Treacherous
generals:
see my dead house,
look at broken Spain :
from every house burning metal flows
instead of flowers,
from every socket of Spain
Spain emerges
and from every dead child a rifle with eyes,
and from every crime bullets are born
which will one day find
the bull's eye of your hearts.

And you'll ask: why doesn't his poetry
speak of dreams and leaves
and the great volcanoes of his native land?

Come and see the blood in the streets.
Come and see
The blood in the streets.
Come and see the blood
In the streets!

Pablo Neruda

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#17

To Jason the Coward Caller

So the truth is crafted by the number of people that believe it? Good! Santa Claus DOES exist!

Cowards and Bullies are part of the same solution.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#18

Go Thom!

Jason is a scary cadavor.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#19

THX Zero G - I also Twittered.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#20

Reciting poetry can leave one in an emotionally open place.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#21

Was Jason ever in combat? My father twitched when we watched the news from Iraq on the tv. When asked if it was the footage bothering him he said...yes,,, these naive kids, they have no idea of who is behind these wars- My father had been a sergeant in the Korean War, and no longer voted Republican after Reagan, though giving Bush Sr a chance, then no longer ever did he vote Republican - war machine = an inflated economy built on hell when we could just as easily have heaven, but first, we must deal with these little bastards like Jason- Jason....wan't that the name of the guy in the Friday 13 movies - no that was Freddie Kruger-- help me out here, I know Jason was in one of those 70s? 80s? horror flicks.

rewinn (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#22

Hey Thom - you gave the caller plenty of time to insult you with sly and not-so-sly digs; it's not surprising you called and raised.

But a more cheerful thought: we live in times that call us to be great. We may never be the Greatest Generation but the rise of facism in our beloved USA gives us the chance to show what we're made of.

I find this to be an empowering thought. Love, not anger, will see us through!

DDay (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#23

The Obama Administration has been repeatedly throwing bones to the dogs on the right with little to show for his attentions but soiled shoes and torn cuffs. I keep waiting for some signs that our President shares the concerns of those who supported him last fall and who toil to remain hopeful. A nice gesture would be to fire up the anti-trust division of the Justice Dept. and oppose the merger of NBC Universal and Comcast. I fear the ramifications for our fourth estate with this marriage. Further consolidation of media cannot be a good thing for our democracy or for consumers.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#24

Profound, Zero G.

And frankly, I loved hearing Thom unleash like that. That is who I would like to hear more of! I actively send out links to Thom's show and I do enter the dark depths, I am glad they are calling in and getting 'Thom'd'. We all have to help, we all must make this a 24/ 7 duty.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#25

Zero G. and Food Fascist,

I agree. I loved your comment, Zero G.

DRichards (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#26

ACLU: Obama’s reversal on Patriot Act reform ‘a major travesty’
Key components in the USA Patriot Act are set to expire at the end of the year, but President Barack Obama is seeking to extend them, reversing his stark opposition in the past to the same provisions.

"The president's reversal on Patriot Act reform is a major travesty," said Michelle Richardson, Legislative Counsel for the leading civil rights group ACLU, in an interview with Raw Story. "There have been many, many abuses of power in the last four years."

http://rawstory.com/2009/11/obamas-patriot-act-extensions-major-flip-ear...

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#27

Food Fascist,

I wish Thom would unleash some of that righteous anger when he has conservative guests...

...although, I have been called an unpleasant dinner guest before.

DanM (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#28

I would like to ask why is there not a push to create a detente for Pakistan & India to create a solution to have them remove their nuclear weapons. One of the biggest threats in the region is that Pakistan has nuclear weapons that could fall into the wrong hands. Also to have India and Pakistan de-escalate their troop build up would free up more Pakistan troops for the Afgan border. To me this would be far more effective than 30,000 more US troops.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#29

Thom put Jason in his place you can bet that Jason is in shock and feeling disoriented and hit in the gut. I tell you, these ghouls are are like Rooks on a Chess board. Far to the right, they are bullies. Far to the left and they are cowards, expressing each gradationally per their position switching in between the two extremes. Thom gave him a boundary, That's what these ghouls do and require. They test their boundaries and it is us to us to place that boundary there. You can bet Jason had a little group of cheerleaders to whom he was trying to model how to talk to a Liberal and you can bet they all feel wounded right now because they finally 'got their feel' like the crew on the Black Pearl in the Pirates of the Carribbean, because normally, these sociopaths do not feel. They are zombies. Study Marshall Rosenberg. Child rapists, molesters, general murderers, they do it to feel, to feel a boundary, to feel period. Because these sociopaths need to feel vicariously, they impinge and witness the pain on another's face, voice, being. What I am saying here is Jason called in to hear the mammoth rumble we heard from Thom. He had to use Thom vicariously as a ghoul needing a body to feel, needing a host from which to take breath and oxygen.

Time for a nice Ohmmm.....the original sound in the Universe which set 'the tone' of creation.

DRichards (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#30

The Economic Reality That No One Wants to Talk About

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-economic-reality-that_b_3...

Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich writes today:

The basic assumption that jobs will eventually return when the economy recovers is probably wrong. Some jobs will come back, of course. But the reality that no one wants to talk about is a structural change in the economy that's been going on for years but which the Great Recession has dramatically accelerated.

Under the pressure of this awful recession, many companies have found ways to cut their payrolls for good. They've discovered that new software and computer technologies have made workers in Asia and Latin America just about as productive as Americans, and that the Internet allows far more work to be efficiently outsourced abroad.

This means many Americans won't be rehired unless they're willing to settle for much lower wages and benefits. Today's official unemployment numbers hide the extent to which Americans are already on this path. Among those with jobs, a large and growing number have had to accept lower pay as a condition for keeping them. Or they've lost higher-paying jobs and are now in a new ones that pays less.

Yet reducing unemployment by cutting wages merely exchanges one problem for another. We'll get jobs back but have more people working for pay they consider inadequate, more working families at or near poverty, and widening inequality. The nation will also have a harder time restarting the economy because so many more Americans lack the money they need to buy all the goods and services the economy can produce.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#31

Dan- you have it. And this is exactly why I giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. We know how these bastards treat their women animals and fellow man. Watch them with nuclear power. But still, we need a special strike team to get those. Someone called into Stephanie's show this morning and said what will occur is some of our troops/ ops will drive the Al Queda/ out of Pakistan to a wall of US Troops to the north in Afghanistan. Perhaps the India troops will protect their own border to the south and we can sandwich the medieval crazies.

L Grace (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#32

Did I hear correctly that Thom "didn't disagree" with the caller who said that Obama is NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER from Bush?

No change whatsoever?

This drives me crazy. We liberals can have such horrible political discernment -- and it's no wonder that a minority of conservatives control the country instead of us, the majority.

We throw our leaders under the bus if we disagree with them on any point.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#33

Well Pakistan has nukes because India has nukes because China has nukes because Russia has nukes because....

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#34

My thoughts are Grace that Thom was thinking our leaders throw us under the bus- at least that's the way I am feeling. I think Thom may not have fully agreed with such a blanket statement obviously. but what he may have been doing was validating the caller's anger and strengthening the need for the people to wake up and become sober to the urgency of our situation. He and the far left are sounding the alarm bells hoping the rest of sleeping America will wake up.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#35

@Zero-- sounds like you could put those words to the 'Hokie Pokey' song. You put your left foot in, you put your right foot in - could be you got your Pakistan Nukes, you got your Chinese Nukes, you got your world full of Nukes and you blow it all up... that's what its all about !

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#36

Well L Grace:

Understand that I held my nose to vote for Obama. I knew he was a centrist, DLC-type candidate who campaigned on escalation in Afghanistan. I only did it because of the extreme restrictions of effective choice by design in this faux democratic republic.

It was with full understanding that I would be in opposition to this and other policies.

I will not be silent.

L Grace (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#37

It bothers me that Thom would even affirm this blanket anger at Obama, saying he is exactly like Bush.

It is totally unfair to claim that you are betrayed by Obama, regarding Afghanistan.

Candidate Obama was perfectly clear that he intended to get MORE involved in Afghanistan and LESS involved in Iraq.

I disagreed with that, but I voted for him anyway. So did most liberals.

It's irrational to be disillusioned for Obama doing what he clearly and repeatedly promised to do!

DanM (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#38

Its not just about isolating the crazies its also about Pakistan coming to terms with the "Frankenstein" they created with using terror groups as proxies to attack India. We have Bin Laden we helped create as a proxy to attack the USSR, and Pakistan has the groups the ISI created and supported to attack India. For Pakistan to regain its country back from falling into chaos they will need to make peace with India and then integrate the terror groups into the political process or imprison the most radical and intractable members. Until this done the region has no hope for peace.

BTW why is not AQ Khan not under arrest, he developed the Pakistan nuclear weaopns, spread it to North Korea and Iran. He is the most dangerous person in the world and yet Pakistan just released him from house arrest.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/06/AR200902...

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#39

And if we don't "turn ourselves around..."

"Th, th, tha, that's all folks!"

L Grace (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#40

Zero G,

Fine, but don't act disillusioned or outraged.

You voted for this!

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#41

Someone on this blog recently referred to Zbigniew Brzezinski's involvement with the Trialateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group, as well as his advocacy of a less-informed electorate (by way of corporate control over news.)

If one can assume the truth of that, it's interesting that Brzezinski's daughter, Mika, is a talking head hired by MSNBC to make Joe Scarborough more palatable. Now some Republicans are talking about Scarborough as potential presidential candidate with enough credibility to knock Sarah Palin out of the running (since Huckabee seems to be out of the running.)

Is this conspiracy or just a big, controlled, incestuous political ruling class/corporate excercise?

Chris Matthews and Republican political advisor Mark McKinnon discuss: (min. 5:50, video):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matt...

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#42

s.b. Trilateral

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#43

Well Grace, where is President Obama - it ain't like he'[s showing up on Thom's radio show- he instead appeared on a right wing radio show. Instead, he reads Thomas Fried MAN for guidance on the environment and surrounds himself with free market economists. President Obama has never been a progressive and those of us who are progressives have never pretended that he was. We hold true to our Progressive Principles - we care about those principles more than whomever is in the Whitehouse, not that I can speak for all progressives, but it is my take. I do not have a crush on Obama. I am not willing to give him a pass on doing things I disagree with. If you want that, turn on CNN.

We voted for Obama because he wasnt McCain or one of the even crazier right wing NUTS.

L Grace (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#44

DanM,

I have a big problem with escalating in Afghanistan to deal with Pakistan.

It's a hard lesson from Iraq, isn't it? Many people wanted to invade Iraq because of Iran. This is just a crazy strategy -- you can't deal with a country by invading its neighbor!

If Pakistan is our biggest danger, then deal with Pakistan. Not via Afghanistan.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#45

Not exactly like Bush but,

Not prosecuting torture.
Continuing in Iraq - (Cancelling referendum amongst Iraqis which would have removed the SOFA that enables US Forces to remain, Green Zone to remain, etc.,)
Arguing to keep Patriot Act.
Reaffirming Gates.
Larry Summers, Tim Geittner, et al.
Rendition continues.
Bowing to Republicans at every turn.
yawn.

DDay (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#46

FYI Sen Arlen Specter is opposed to the Afghan surge. "Not worth the money or the lives." Sen. John Kerry supports the Afghan surge.

Zero G. (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#47

Outraged yes, disillusioned no.

Quark (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#48

L Grace,

This "invade the neighbor" strategy doesn't fly with me, either. That's why I think there's more going on, like the pipeline we've discussed.

Food Fascist (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#49

@zerog Warner Brothers cartoons 'that's all folks!'

L Grace (not verified) 9 years 46 weeks ago
#50

>> Food Fascist December 3rd, 2009, 10:28 am
>> President Obama has never been a progressive and those of us who are progressives have never pretended that he was

I have to disagree with you on that point -- I think the outrage we are hearing against Obama is because lots of Progressives and liberals had a fantasy about Obama.

From my perspective, Obama is pretty-much living up to what he promised as a candidate.

... not perfectly, but no president -- nor any person! -- perfectly lives up to their rhetoric.

My point is this -- we liberals and progressives voted for Obama and we got what we voted for. There is no big betrayal here.

Furthermore, we are culpable for what is going on .... just like the conservatives are morally culpable for the gigantic mess that Bush made. The conservatives are a pack of weasels and deny everything or even blame it on us!. I refuse to be like them.

Has Capitalism and The GOP Destroyed Religion?

Thom plus logo The number of Americans who called them selves Christian or religious has declined precipitously over the last decade, and the number of Americans who are "unaffiliated Christians", atheists, or unconcerned about religion or spirituality has increased.

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