Daily Topics - Thursday - April 15th 2010
At The Thom Hartmann Program - we're selecting a comment for a FREE Thom Podcast from this topic on our message boards - Are you going to a Tea Party? Yes or No and Why? The FREE Podcast will be announced at the end of the show Friday. We'll have a surprise comment tommorow too....It's a secret until then.
Hour One - Former Republican Governor NYC George Pataki Chairman of "Revere America"Paul Revere helped create a govt that opposed corporate power - Why do today's conservatives want to cut back government and elevate corporate power?
Hour Two - What happens when one small person tries to take on Big Coal? Maria Gunnoe A Coal Miners Daughter, Mountain Community Organizer/Activist-Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition www.ohvec.org
Geeky Science Rocks!! Did you know sometimes cell phones and driving DO go together?
Hour Three - Why would a tea partier try to help out the rich and powerful instead of working Americans? Ryan Hecker National Coordinator Tea Party Patriots, author of "Contract from America" www.thecontract.org
@quark, that comes as no surprise. ;-)
What sign would I carry at a Tea Party gathering? I have a couple of choices - Cancer in two formats (my sign and the nemisis of animals everywhere). Or I'd hook up with Billionaires For Wealthcare. I would savor the confused reactions.
re: Why do today's conservatives want to cut back government and elevate corporate power?
Because today's conservatives have been going through business school since at least the eighties. Today's conservatives identify themselves as businessmen, and as businessmen they identify their interests as being inline with corporate interests.
Why do they teach ethics in colleges? To teach students how to be or not to be ethical? (I think most took the latter outlook).
Mark K: I happened to catch “Coast-to-Coast” patriarch Art Bell provide an ominous assessment of the future of humankind the other night. Humans would eventually destroy the habitability of the Earth—and likely sooner rather than later—so we should be thinking about the feasibility of off-shoring to another planet now. But if we encountered alien life in our next home, why should the native inhabitants trust us to behave? What rationale would they have for not slaughtering humans on the spot? After all, how should an alien intelligence judge us just by viewing our activities here on this planet? War, bigotry, starvation—is this what humans would bring to another world? The most popular television programming are crime shows like “Law and Order” and its ilk. Is this what life is all about on Earth, an alien intelligence would justly muse? Do humans really find violence “entertaining?” If we sent out a signal out into space describing ourselves, just how much would we have to lie about ourselves? What moral right do we have to colonize another planet when in the generality humans clearly don’t give a damn about the welfare of their own kind, much less about indigenous life? One recalls the Eagles’ song “The Last Resort”: “Call someplace paradise—kiss it good bye.”
Meanwhile, The NY Times released a poll reportedly describing Tea Party supporters as mostly wealthy, white, male and “concerned” about the direction the country is going in. Maybe so, but once more we are being led astray by the mainstream media relying on polls instead of engaging in serious reporting. We know that the motivation of the people behind the “movement” is greed and control, but polls don’t aim to dig deep enough to discover this. It doesn’t matter that their aims conflict in many ways with that of the “movement” they support: the talking points of paranoia and hysteria that the mob eagerly feeds on both conceals and abets their true designs. These polls that allegedly give an “accurate” picture of the Tea Party movement only show visceral responses to fear and prejudice, not logical, well-thought-out responses. And these polls only tell us what the respondents want to us to know; no one is asked to explain difficult questions, such as why the “movement” is almost wholly a white movement--a movement shot-through with racism and conspiracy “theories" that suggest a government-backed Armegeddon of the white race.
What these polls do tell us, however, is that the Tea Party people are the same people who in the 1930s opposed the New Deal as a “socialist” or “communist” program, and in the 1950s and 60s thought that school desegregation and civil and voting rights laws were “social engineering.” Back then, people were not afraid of exposing their bigotry and narrow-mindedness as rational and reasonable; they do the same today, except that we are accused of being overly imaginative in what we see right in front of our eyes.
I would be tempted to carry a sign that said: "You People Are Idiots."
or, a blank sign;
"Reagan Wins On Budget, But More Lies Ahead" - headline from leftwingwacko.com
Even tho the cynical part of me also expects predatory behavior by Republicans, the nurturing side of me is horrified by the idea of "eating my own." But I guess aberrant thinking is mankind's downfall. (My husband and I have an ongoing debate as to whether this is a result of low I.Q., failure of our species to evolve enough to overcome these problems, or individual mental disease. It's probably a combination of all of these and more.)
@Maxrot: don't know if you saw my after-hours post yesterday, but i meant no offense about the apostrophes, i just thought it was funny; like seeing a roadside vegetable stand with a sign that says: "Beet's and Tomato's for sale." :)
@Quark:I've always considered it a matter of the ruling elite's ability to divide and concquer the middle and lower classes. Keep people mad at immigrants, hispanics, African-americans, jews, muslims, hippies, gays, etc., and they won;t focus on their true masters. Even the concept of "classes" is banned from US mainstream media.
@harry, I didn't get to read your after hours quote, I cried for hours and hours yesterday, kept muttering "harry hates me, harry hates me"... :-)
Don't sweat it (if you saw my reply to your original comment, I tried to load it with apostrophes just to be smart ass ;-) )
My sign would say, DON'T SHRINK GOVERNMENT, SHRINK WALL STREET!
I hope that message would resonate with both sides. - DJ
The "You People are Idiots" sentiment is always my first reaction to the tea party people. I can't help it. I understand the anger and fear that motivates them, but their euphemistic "low-information voter" appellation makes me crazy!
Now...on my way to our Coffee Party meets Tea Party. I will be handing out instructions on how to get to The Thom Hartmann Show, and other progressive media. Wish me luck!
Good on you! I'm there with you in spirit!
@Maxbot: I read you. I, myself, have a phobia about "colons", myself. I even hesitate to use semi-colons.
Sarah Palin makes my eardrums bleed.
My "Tea Party Signs" -
OK - first, the disclaimer ... the only way you'd get me to go to a Tea Party is bound, gagged, tarred & feathered. I KNOW who the Tea Party guys in my area are - they used to be the Lyndon La Rouche supporters! Forget about talking any sense to these guys ... facts that disagree with their world view are, in their eyes, simple communist fabrications. Oh, and they carry guns pretty much always, so they can protect themselves from the "socialist gub'mint scabs", who wanna kill their babies and make their sons gay. So, everything you see below is hypothetical.
1) Was Joe Mc Carthy the last real American?
2) Working in direct opposition to our own best interests since 2008.
3) Ask me about my AK-47.
4) Keep yer stinkin' gub'mint hands offa my Medicare!
5) What's good for Goldman-Sachs is good for you!
All for now - I may check in with more later.
At least she reminds me ot Tina Fay...Fey..?
For every rich Democrat like George Soros, there are hundreds of rich Republicans.
To follow through on my wonder if percent coal as consumption by source had decreased...surprise, EPA pie chart showing 50% coal, however in communication this morning with EIA- and my 2005 Physical Geology Text are both showing 23% coal and not from a decline, but from an increasing amount! EIA Industry Economist wonders if the EPA pie chart was showing per electricity, or a specific consumption. So now, the next step is to find the data for that famous pie chart the people keep quoting. In the meanwhile, here is the data the EIA is showing. At any rate, most of the coal we mine, does go for electricity
I have provided several links below to show how coal consumption fits into the total U.S. energy picture.
Historical consumption of coal by end-use sector shows that between 1970 and 2008 U.S. coal consumption steadily increased from 523.3 million short tons to 1,121.7 million short tons:
In 2008, 93.4 percent of U.S. coal consumed was for electric generation :
Primary energy consumption by source (1949-2008 data) shows that in 2008, 22.421 Quadrillion Btus of the total 99.304 Quadrillion Btus (22.6 percent) consumed in the U.S. was coal:
Primary energy consumption by source (graph) shows a visual interpretation of 1949-2008 data:
Aha! Thx to the groovy edit feature, I am able to add this link yet another agent from the EIA just sent to clarify what we must be seeing from the EPA- it was for electricity source consumption pie:
The following information on electricity usage is available in this Energy Explained page -- http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_home#tab2
I hope this answers your question.
@ Harry Ashburn & Nels - Both of you guys need to read a book called "Eats, Shoots and Leaves", by Lynn Truss, about the death of proper punctuation in the English language. The title was taken from an essay about the Polar Bear, and (as punctuated above) brings to mind a bear finishing a sandwich in a Deli, then gunning down the counter staff and taking his exit. ;-)
I can only think that most tea-partiers are willfully ignorant, and I have a rather limited patience for that. The historical facts remain that without the socialist/labor movements of the 20th century there never would have been social security, overtime pay, child labor laws, etc., ad infinitum.
Facts can be like stones which you've stubbed your toes on. Tea-partiers seem to think their toes are spontaniously swollen and throbbing...
@harry ashburn, the other day you mentioned that you didn't buy the possibility of the twin towers (and WTC 7) being brought down by controlled demolition. I'm just curious as to whether you came to that decision after watching Richard Gage's presentation, or just because the thought is so preposterous or disturbing?
thanx, mstaggerlee, I didn't read it but I saw the movie. The subtitle was "Eat's, Shoot's and Leave's."
@quark, I think you and your husband are overlooking the obvious (note I used the disclaimer "I think"), more often than not humans act in their own narrow view of their self interests. Consider this, a farmer produces more food than his family can eat, so he sells the product at the best price he can get for it, the farmer is all to happy if the price pays more than his overhead costs. Can anyone begrudge him his profit, would it not be foolish for him to drop his price to just what he needed. Sure in the long run if he dropped his price to just what he needed, then his buyers could then drop their mark-up to just what they needed, and so on and so forth. This is the basic concept behind trickle down economics right, once you make enough money you give up the extra amount you're making voluntarily (except that rarely if ever happens). Think about it, if you make enough money to pay all your expenses and live comfortably, and your boss offers you a 10% raise, do you reply "Thanks, but I'm already making enough, please just reinvest that money back in the company it'll be better for everyone in the long run." It would be noble, evolved, intelligent to do so would it not, but on the other hand why should I take that noble, evolved, intelligent step that I'm not seeing anyone else taking, besides with that raise I can now afford that Sea Cruise I've dream't about taking.
We're humans, that's our nature. If our society thought and acted like an ant colony or bee hive it might work for the better of the whole, but on the other hand who wants to work as hard and thanklessly as an ant or bee. I'm not trying to make excuses for what seems to be the inherent selfishness of the human condition, I'm just trying to point out one of our most poignant universal weaknesses that impedes much of our social evolution. If it was our human nature to be so magnanimous, the hippie communes of the late '60's (heck state sponsored Communism like Russia or China) would have been successful.
@Robert S re twin towers: I came to that conclusion while watching the actual event live on TV. I was watching, expecting the towers to fall into their basements, and they did. I said I'm not convinced charges were set, nor am I convinced otherwise, im just saying the buildings fell just as I anticipated.
I agree --- Sarah Palin's major redeeming attribute is that she inspired such wonderful Tina Fey bits. Video from last Saturday's SNL:
Tea Pary Sign:
Side 1: Bring the manufacturing jobs back home!
Side A: Secure the ports, inspect every container!
Tea Party T-Shirt:
I went to a Tea Party and all I got was this lousy T-shi_t
(Wish I could draw an 'r' above and to the side of the underscore... please use your imagination to visualize my intent)
Where's the Beer Party?
Even though I live on the East Coast, I listen to Thom's Show via the Web, on KTLK out of Los Angeles, because that is one of very few stations that carry Stephanie's, Thom's and Randi's shows, all live as they happen. Sad fact is that vey few stations on the East Coast carry more than one of those 3 shows, live or delayed. :(
During their "news" broadcast at the top of the hour, they quoted a report (I missed the source - will have to listenm to next newscast more carefully) stating that "Tea Party members are wealthier and MORE EDUCATED than non-members." WTF??????????
Was that report issued by Fox News, or by Glenn Beck himself?
The best way to sequester carbon is to leave it in the ground.
Your argument sounds logical enough, but there are other circumstances that would change the outcomes.
1) Here's an example from life. My father was a dentist serving a small rural community that was the number one poverty area in Wisconsin. Often, his patients had little money to pay their bills. My dad frequently took payment "in kind" (home-grown vegetables or other items in place of cash.) Also, for years, my dad never raised his prices to his patients (even tho HIS costs --- lab bills, office assistant salary, etc. --- continued to go up.) Believe me, this drove my mother crazy. But my dad considered himself priviledged to be a dentist and he believed in "giving back."
2) Businesses run as co-ops generally do not operate without thought to their future health. Unfortunately, this is not the standard model in this country.
I see these things as glimmers of hope, tho certainly not ubiquitous.
If it was our human nature to be so magnanimous, the hippie communes of the late '60's (heck state sponsored Communism like Russia or China) would have been successful.
What would have happened if the experiments in more equitible social organization hadn't been attacked at every turn by the wealthy elites who stood to lose their "king of the hill" status.
Consider the example of Salvador Allende in Chile. Upon his election, Richard Nixon declared, "Make the economy scream." Henry Kissenger responded with:
"The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.""I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people."
@Gene Hear! Hear!
@mstaggerlee, I believe that news report used the words "Tea Party Supporters" not "Tea Party Members" and there is quite a difference between the two.
@Maxrot: you are a riot! :D "Side A" and "Side 1" :D
"Tea Pary Sign:
Side 1: Bring the manufacturing jobs back home!
Side A: Secure the ports, inspect every container!"
This reminds me of the old Aggie (Texas A&M University) joke. "How do you keep an aggie (or a T partier) busy for hours?" On one side (side "A"), you write "OVER".
On the other side, ("Side 1") you write "OVER".
Can I join the Tee Partie fi I went to schol?
My sign would be:
ROSS PEROT WAS RIGHT!!!!
re: educated tea-partiers: I saw such an article, I think it was the Nation or maybe Truthout yesterday.
I forgot to mention that both my dad and my father-in-law did anonymous generous things for others throughout their lives. I don't think my mom or I ever knew the extent of my dad's help in the community until we got an idea of it from the huge number of people who came to his funeral.
I'm pretty sure its "HERE HERE!"
"If anyone thinks that we are going to stop agitating, they had better think again. If anyone thinks that we are going to stop litigating, they had better close the courts. If anyone thinks that we are not going to demonstrate and protest, they had better roll up the sidewalks." Benjamin Hooks, passed away at 85.
Supertasker? Your brain can still concentrate on one thing at a time. Supertasker = ADD (in my humble opinion, as one also with ADD.)
@Nels - Aha! I get it ... those who SUPPORT theTea Parties are much smarter than those who actually JOIN one, right?
Somehow, I thnk not ...
How about 1 of 2 signs...
1: Tea Partiers = Slaves Fighting For The Master Class
2: Real Americans Join The Coffee Party!
re walnuts: ive seen recent articles extolling possible anti carcenogenic properties of apricot seeds; and supposedly Edgar Cayce said if you eat one almond a day, you'll never get cancer. that's cool, but how do you keep from eating the whole can in one day?
If Wikipedia can truly be believed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_here 'redirects' to Hear Hear.
Please post the high-fructose corn syrup study URL.
Also, there was a study released in the recent past that showed a relationship between drinking soft drinks w/sugar and higher incidence of pancreatic cancer.
Maybe mankind was not meant to have a "sweet tooth" (or should just eat fruit.)
@Speedbird: "HERE HEAR" to that!
Tea Parties Created as a Political Ploy
According to a secret document uncovered by Politico, a Republican public relations firm created the "Tea Party Express" charter to generate more profits for itself. Video: