Daily Topics - Wednesday - May 26th 2010

Quote: “The money power denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.” -- Democrat Presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan

Hour One - Should BP's Tony Hayward be put in prison for murder, manslaughter or environmental terrorism? Richard Stein, marine biologist and former University of Alaska fisheries extension agent

Plus...Gulf oil spill is killing his business Kuzma Tesvich Louisiana oyster harvester...his family has been in the business for generations

Hour Two - Have our privacy rights been eroded to point where the police are coming to your house next? Valerie Burch www.aclupa.org

Hour Three - Why is it that people aligned with the climate deniers tend toward violence while the people associated with people concerned about climate change tend toward bake sales? Dan Gainor www.businessandmedia.org

Comments

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#1

The Oil Spew in the Gulf is a wonderful metaphor for our current political landscape.

The Gulf Waters represent our idealized political system.

The Oil Rig represents the money being inserted into our system.

The Oil and Gas represents political corruption.

The Dispersant represents the media (Fox is one the most toxic type).

The Underwater Plumes of Oil represents all the everything that's poisoning the system that we don't see.

The Oil Slick represents everything that we can see that is corrupt, but we are either to close to see all of it, or too far away to understand the details.

The Skimmers and Clean up Vessels represent the Spin Doctors that explain what the politicians really meant.

The Clean up workers on the shore represent activists that are trying to get rid of the corruption, but their efforts are mostly futile.

The Dead Sea Life represent US.

N

(You can infer US to being you and me or the USA, either way it works. Feel free to add to this metaphor too, I'm sure I left a lot out).

Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#2

The best way to sequester carbon is to leave it in the ground. -- Tom Toles

Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#4

@Jim Hightower:

As long as the financial penalty is shoved on to taxpayers and the environment, the environmental impact will be minimal to British Petroleum>

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#6

My enthusiasm for commenting is dwindling. Maybe if Obama was doing the work of FDR and not following in the footsteps of Bush II, I would feel differently toward commenting.

The issue is not the National Guard patrolling our borders; the issue should be the imprisonment of employers who hire illegal immigrants. Our National Guard patrolling the borders is a waste of time.

The United States of Hell must repent and return to the Golden Rule.

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#7

The very idea that knowledge handed down from generation to generation could or should be monetized trivializes such knowledge. Not that these people don't deserve some monetary compensation to survive, just that these folks cannot be repaid anymore than the families of those killed in illegal US wars can be repaid by financial considerations.

flotron9's picture
flotron9 9 years 39 weeks ago
#8

Yeah, gerald, I hear you. The internet is great for exchanging info and connecting, but that isn't what we need so much right now. We have the information we need and we're connected. We need correct ACTION. We need to re-align governments: local, state and federal with citizens and DISEMPOWER the corporations that control government with perks, earmarks and campaign contributions.

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#9

@Gene,

Tom Tomorrow is one of the best!

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#11

@Zero G. to those that worship at the Idol of the Almighty Dollar, money is the only thing of worth, making them worthless people. These people work their way to the top of Corporate and Political organizations, and in turn make such organizations leviathans of evil, bent on fulfilling the philosophy of their leaders. Since money is the only thing they care about, dolling out some seems like such a sacrifice, they can't understand how anything else as a value.

How we can expect the greed minded leaders to even fathom the devastation they cause is about as improbable as expecting them to understand the value of the lives they are destroying.

Money obviously can't equate to many of the things in our life we value.

So obviously, I'm in total agreement with you.

N

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#13

What about Ed Schultzs' favorite product. Bio-Green-Clean. How does that effect oil in water? It's 100% bio degradable and 100% American made.

N

flotron9's picture
flotron9 9 years 39 weeks ago
#14

Thanks, Z. He's an oracle.

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#15

Clearly 9/11 met the conditions for the imposition of COG measures, and we know for certain that COG planning was instituted on that day in 2001, before the last plane had crashed in Pennsylvania. The 9/11 Report confirms this twice, on pages 38 and 326.[10] It was under the auspices of COG that Bush stayed out of Washington on that day, and other government leaders like Paul Wolfowitz were swiftly evacuated to Site R, inside a hollowed out mountain near Camp David.[11]

What few have recognized is that, nearly a decade later, some aspects of COG remain in effect. COG plans are still authorized by a proclamation of emergency that has been extended each year by presidential authority, most recently by President Obama in September 2009. COG plans are also the probable source for the 1000-page Patriot Act presented to Congress five days after 9/11, and also for the Department of Homeland Security’s Project Endgame -- a ten-year plan, initiated in September 2001, to expand detention camps, at a cost of $400 million in Fiscal Year 2007 alone.[12]

At the same time we have seen the implementation of the plans outlined by Chardy in 1987: the warrantless detentions that Oliver North had planned for in Rex 1984, the warrantless eavesdropping that is their logical counterpart, and the militarization of the domestic United States under a new military command, NORTHCOM.[13] Through NORTHCOM the U.S. Army now is engaged with local enforcement to control America, in the same way that through CENTCOM it is engaged with local enforcement to control Afghanistan and Iraq.

We learned that COG planning was still active in 2007, when President Bush issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 (NSPD 51). This, for the sixth time, extended for one year the emergency proclaimed on September 14, 2001. It empowered the President to personally ensure "continuity of government" in the event of any "catastrophic emergency." He announced that NSPD 51 contains "classified Continuity Annexes" which shall "be protected from unauthorized disclosure." Under pressure from his 911truth constituents, Congressman Peter DeFazio of the Homeland Security Committee twice requested to see these Annexes, the second time in a letter signed by the Chair of his committee. His request was denied.

The National Emergencies Act, one of the post-Watergate reforms that Vice-President Cheney so abhorred, specifies that: “Not later than six months after a national emergency is declared, and not later than the end of each six-month period thereafter that such emergency continues, each House of Congress shall meet to consider a vote on a joint resolution to determine whether that emergency shall be terminated” (50 U.S.C. 1622, 2002). Yet in nine years Congress has not once met to discuss the State of Emergency declared by George W. Bush in response to 9/11, a State of Emergency that remains in effect today. Appeals to the Congress to meet its responsibilities to review COG have fallen on deaf ears.[14]

Former Congressman Dan Hamburg and I appealed publicly last year, both to Obama to terminate the emergency, and to Congress to hold the hearings required of them by statute.[15] But Obama, without discussion, extended the 9/11 Emergency again on September 10, 2009;[16] and Congress has continued to ignore its statutory obligations. One Congressman explained to a constituent that the provisions of the National Emergencies Act have now been rendered inoperative by COG. If true, this would seem to justify Chardy’s description of COG as suspension of the Constitution. Are there other parts of the Constitution that have been suspended? We do not know, and the Chair of the Homeland Security Committee has been told he cannot find out.

Plans drafted by a secret committee, including corporation heads not in the government, have provided rules that allegedly override public law and the separation of powers that is at the heart of the Constitution. Congress is derelict in addressing this situation. Even Congressman Kucinich, the one Congressman I have met, will not answer my communications on this subject.

Excerpts from:

Supplanting the United States Constitution: War, National Emergency and "Continuity of Government"


by Peter Dale Scott

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#16

@flotron9, the internet is great for information. Corporations can bring down countries. All operations from the goose-steppers are overt because they believe Americans are stupid.

Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#17

Could we soak up the oil with dollar bills? Oh, yeah, that's what we're doing.

kengkendall's picture
kengkendall 9 years 39 weeks ago
#18

I recently joined the Financial Times Website after listening to a promotion by Thom Hartmann. I love to watch and read news. When in high school I admired Henry Kissinger's diplomacy. Ever since 9/11 I have been observing terrorist networks, organized crime and drug cartels. I have seen a disturbing pattern evolve. When Governments, Banks, United Nations, and foreign aid abandoned the poor and impoverished, the previous above mentioned take over. The wealthy nations of the world have created a power vacuum, and will have to fight a continual battle in hot spots that will pop up all over the world. The U.S. military will most likely lose the battle in Afghanistan, and will focus next on Somalia. They will have to find and fight guerilla warfare battles on a never ending cycle. Drug Cartels like in Mexico and most recently in Jamaica have taken over poor neighbors. Now their countries’ own military has to try to clear them out. Once you kill one drug cartel member, there are many other poor desperate citizen waiting in the wings. Organized crime in Italy has prospered in the lending of money in the Southern portion of the country because the banks greatly limited lending to local businesses. I recently joined the Green Party because eventually the U.S. Government will bankrupt itself fighting these ill thought out battles and a new foreign policy strategy will be needed and implemented.

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#19

The oil catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico will doom the Obama presidency. Obama is finished as president. The oil spill may never end in this century. Americans love to waste their natural resources and we love to waste other countrys' natural resources.

Obama is toast as president. I will refer to Obama as the former president who has not been formally removed from office until 2012.

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#20

ENVIRONMENTAL TERRORISM MUST BE CONSIDERED A CRIME!!!

LeMoyne's picture
LeMoyne 9 years 39 weeks ago
#21

I really like the metaphor Max. I thought about tinkering with it but it is quite solid. And I use US ambiguously like that on purpose all the time. I think that most here get it: the USA is US like it or not - we are both the responsible parties and the victims when our government of, by and for the people is hijacked. It is more empowering to be responsible. So, Gerald if you get all kinds of busy with action, please come back some time and let us know what works and what doesn't OK?

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#22

Thom & Lamar say of Peter Dale Scott: (and a few others)

...we encourage our readers to seek out and read any and all of their work. Legacy of Secrecy, pg 855

At the risk of being called out again by Mrs. Hartmann maybe Thom could have Peter Dale Scott on the show some time?

SoloPocono's picture
SoloPocono 9 years 39 weeks ago
#23

Pigeon: Impossible

Secret Agent vs Secret Case vs Pigeon vs .....Nuclear WAR??!!

In Disney Pixar Style-A Story of...consequences?

DON'T Mess With the Pigeons!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEjUAnPc2VA&feature=youtube_gdata

I realize this is fairly "old", (posted on YouTube last November).

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#24

@LeMoyne, thanks for the comment. I did leave out the Loop Current, and oil in the marshes, off the top of my head I think there are some nice analogies there to, but I was hoping I'd get more response and provoke more of a dialog with the bloggers here. Oh well best laid plans of Mice and Men....

N

LeMoyne's picture
LeMoyne 9 years 39 weeks ago
#25

The really sick part of the HS 'senior photos' case is that the courts had already slapped down the prosecution of three of her schoolmates for similar photos.

Quote ACLU of PA: N.N. was a schoolmate of Marissa Miller, Grace Kelly, and Nancy Doe, who sued last year over District Attorney Skumanick's threat to prosecute them for child pornography for revealing pictures of themselves found on other students' cell phones if they did not take the same D.A.'s re-education course that N.N. was forced to take. Earlier this year the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit issued a ruling preventing the three girls from being prosecuted.

And in that case the photos were on other people's phones. The school and the DA should have known better in the current case of N. N.

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#26

@Zero G. I don't think Mrs. Hartman was as annoyed by the suggestions for guests, so much as the request for Thom to stop having certain types of guests. Though I could be wrong about that. Would be nice if she just joined us and shared comments, but she may worry about her celebrity status taking up too much attention.

N

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#27

LeMoyne,

As bad as the case of the prosecution of this H.S. student is, the really sick part of this is the attitudes this society has towards nudity and sexuallity in general.

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#28

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Dear-President-Obama-Step-by-Rob-Kall-100525-589.html

Rob Kall, you are a little late in writing this article. Former President Obama is a one term president. He will be formally removed from office in 2012. Blaming Bush II for part of the oil problem is acceptable but former President Obama could be doing more than what he is not doing. He could have Holder, a nothing AG, prosecute the criminals.

Our law enforcement officers need to spend their precious time on actual crimes and not on bare breasts. Maybe these law enforcement officers suffer from excessive testosterone.

I believe that if a law enforcement officer is beating the crap out of you, you have a right to defend yourself.

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#29

Nels,

I think you're right. Notice I didn't say, "in lieu of...."

DRichards's picture
DRichards 9 years 39 weeks ago
#30

Councils use anti-terror powers to check for dog collarsCouncils have used anti-terrorism laws to try to catch people donating goods outside charity shops and to make sure dogs are wearing collars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7753375/Councils...

Gives a new meaning for the word terrorist. It seems to me that it invalidates the whole "war on terror".

LeMoyne's picture
LeMoyne 9 years 39 weeks ago
#31

Max... We are the sea life and the dispersants [corporate media] put the oil [corruption] into a form that we can not avoid - we can hardly help absorbing the stuff and getting poisoned because it now permeates the ocean [the civil discourse that founds our idealized government of/by/for people]. Nice - awesome.

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#32

I'd like to see the school officials in this case get counter sued for invasion of privacy. Plain and simple, they had no legal reason to go through the phone after confiscating it. Too many school officials think they're running their own personal kingdom or dictatorship, and abuse the positions they hold. Why we allow them to act with such draconian principles is beyond me (wish principal and principle was spelled the same way, using a double meaning here would be cool).

N

Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#33

Our local high school demanded that our children and parents agree to unwarrented searches of any vehicles that they might use to drive to school. I'm pretty sure that our district isn't alone in this kind of abuse. What to the kids learn? This is purely a paranoid power routine which serves to tell us that we must subject ourselves to authority. The lesson should be informative to those who haven't been subjugated by idiots who are afraid that their power might be subject to public review.

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#34

re: #32: unfortunately, the legal precept of "en loco parentis", (which means, of course, 'your parents are crazy') gives school officials limited parental rights over students while at school or on school activity.

gerald's picture
gerald 9 years 39 weeks ago
#35

Former President Obama is a mass murderer and a war criminal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/24/obamas-war-supplemental-r_n_587325.html

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#36

@LeMoyne, ah, now that was the kind of comment I was hoping to draw forth from the blogging ether. What a wonderful way to word it too, no wonder you won the coveted book award recently on this blog.

N

Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#37

My friend was stopped at a "safety" checkpoint by police. Nothing wrong with the car; nothing regarding impairment. The cop asked him, "Where are you coming from?" He pointed his thumb backward and said, "that way." Then the cop asked, "where are you going?" My friend pointed his finger forward and said, "that way." The cop said he wanted a serious answer, and my friend said, "I am serious." He was allowed to proceed.

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#38

@Gerald re: 35: and future President Perry won't? :D

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#39

The War on Some Drugs has lead to the Fourth Amendment being decimated, led to searches in schools and stop and frisk actions in some cities. The death toll rises in Mexico and now Jamaica.

The nexus between drugs and the intelligence services goes back, way way back,

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#40

@zero g: which proves the rule "they don't call it 'dope' for nothing."

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#41

An officer a few years ago hit me with his car's search light as I was waiting for a bus..."come over here."

He started to question me and I replied as I've been taught, "Am I being detained, officer, or am I free to leave?"

I was informed that I had J-walked to the bus stop, and if I didn't want to be cited for that, I needed to answer his questions about cocaine distribution at a bar I'd never been in. I considered just taking the ticket and taking it up with the judge, but thought better of it. I had J-walked across an empty street at 10:00 PM, no cars in sight except for the patrol car, which had passed by and had to pull a U-turn to confront me.

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#42

@Zero G: so, did you have to split your coke with him?

rladlof's picture
rladlof 9 years 39 weeks ago
#43

@Gerald: I assume you mean, "He who has the gold, rules."

geph's picture
geph 9 years 39 weeks ago
#44

Which is easier, using a shovel on a large concentrated pile of sand, or picking up individual grains that have been dispersed by the wind?

The answer is obvious.

Consider the tragic treatment of the Deepwater Crime, err I mean Deepwater Horizon oil volcano. Since oil floats on water most of this catastrophe would naturally be in the top few inches of water. By adding poisonous "dispersants" we are magnifying the problem a few thousand-fold as now it affects the ENTIRE 5280 foot depth of the ocean in the area.

We have a choice:

Spread the disaster to the entire depth of the ocean by adding millions of gallons of poisonous dispersants, thus making the disaster so widespread and inaccessible that no devices can reach it and the entire ocean is affected.

Or,

Centralize the problem at the surface, where we can add relatively benign coagulants to keep the effects as small as possible, and use thousands of ships, along with people and machinery on the coast, to attempt to deal with the oil.

The answer appears to be obvious.

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 9 years 39 weeks ago
#45

@Zero G. you do know that there has to be controlled intersections at both ends of the block for you to be cited with J-walking? In other words if there is an Alley or Side street that intersects or tee's into the street between two controlled intersections, the most you can be charged with is interfering with traffic, which means a car would have to slow down to let you pass in front of it. In other words, a legitimate J-walking ticket is hard to apply if you know the law.

A cop once stopped me with the same type of threat, he didn't like it when I explained to him that the J-walking charge was inapplicable and why. He accused me of smarting off to him (as if that's a criminal offense). Needless to say he left me alone, none too happy about having to do so.

N

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#46

I was driving thru a construction area, and an anal-retentive female trooper, who was obviously PO'ed, yelled at me thru my open window: "why is your sun visor down? you're not looking into the sun?" Well, the visor was down 'cause I had previously put it down to partially hide my face from coming traffic. 'cause er....'cause...I was picking my nose! Yeah! thats it! I had been picking my nose. :D Anyway, I almost responded to the cop "Well, I'm not driving up there!"...then I bit my lip; then I almost said "The UFO's are less distracting that way!"... then I thought better of it and just lifted the visor and drove on.

Zero G's picture
Zero G 9 years 39 weeks ago
#47
Gene Savory's picture
Gene Savory 9 years 39 weeks ago
#48

In Illinois it is considered "eavesdropping" if all parties to a conversation do not agree to be recorded. Police have been charging people with eavesdropping for recording their interactions, in public, with police. The penalty for this can range from misdemeanor to class 1 felony, with maximum penalties up to 15 years in jail.

Check out http://www.c-drew.com/blog/comments-on-suntimes-article-creative-felony/ for some quite sobering information on the burgeoning police state.

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#49

@Zero G: or... Fat Freddy Scat. I still have a compilation comic book and a Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers T-shirt. "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope."

Onward thru the fog....

harry ashburn 9 years 39 weeks ago
#50

Or...as my biology prof used to say..."onward thru the frog"...

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