That’s Not Who We Are

No-go on the death photos. President Obama has decided not to release photos of Bin Laden’s dead corpse saying - in an upcoming 60 Minutes interview – "It is important to make sure very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool…We don’t need to spike the football…We don't trot out this stuff as trophies."

The President’s decision is a marked departure from the polices of George W. Bush who repeatedly trotted out the “trophies” of people he killed while President – including Saddam Hussein’s two sons and Abu Musab Al Zarqawi. It will also disappoint the bloodthirsty people like Sarah Palin who tweeted yesterday telling the President to “stop pussyfooting around” and “show photos as warning to others.” Knowing the release of the photos could put our troops at risk and spur more violence – and certainly wouldn’t satisfy the deathers who think Sunday’s mission was a fake – the President saw no good reason to release them.

“That’s not we are,” the President said. I agree – no reason to brag – or show how violent we can be. It took us ten years to get rid of Bin Laden, and we're just recovering from Bush's brutality – now it’s time to move on


DRichards's picture
DRichards 11 years 39 weeks ago

Why Didn't We Capture the Terrorist Kingpin and Interrogate Him?

I'm as happy as the next red-blooded American that Bin Laden is dead.

For more than a decade, the government has said that Bin Laden is the world's worst terrorist, a terrorist kingpin, the head of the worst terrorist group in the world.

But if we captured and interrogated him, he could have spilled a lot of beans which would help prevent future terrorist attacks.


DRichards's picture
DRichards 11 years 39 weeks ago

Archbishop ‘uncomfortable’ with killing of bin LadenThe leader of the world's Anglicans said on Thursday he felt "very uncomfortable" over the killing of Osama bin Laden while unarmed.

gerald's picture
gerald 11 years 39 weeks ago

@DRichards, I believe that yesterday you made a comment that OBL should have been captured so we could investigate him. I AGREE! We were given a crock that he would be captured if he did not have gun in hand. I agree with the Archbishop!

Ed Bishop's picture
Ed Bishop 11 years 39 weeks ago

I am a non-believer, in general. If I don't have solid, corroborated evidence, I must honestly admit that I do not KNOW about any particular thing. That's why humans developed Science: so we don't have to depend on Belief.

That said, if Obama want's to provide SOME evidence that they actually got Bin Laden, they should simply turn over some of that DNA to an objective 3rd party. Any 'rational' person should 'believe' the published results of two independent DNA testing laboratories.

Given the government's past record of covert False Flag operations, secret experiments on the U.S. population, assassinations, and a steady diet of lies upon lies on a broad range of subjects, it's not unreasonable to ask for some proof.

stonesphear's picture
stonesphear 11 years 39 weeks ago

If conspiracy theory is your bag revert back to potential complicity involved in 9/11 for the sake of sufficient public support to engage in Iraq.

Apparently Osama did not have a detonator in his hand that could have blown all minds and evidence present to cinders this time.

There was only one way for the Seal that shot him to find that out short of a conversation beyond the Pearly Gates.

Jimspy's picture
Jimspy 11 years 39 weeks ago

Somehow I think we prevented a lot of future terrorist attacks by simply killing him. And don't forget his hard drives!

Jimspy's picture
Jimspy 11 years 39 weeks ago

As I said in another thread, if Osama fails to pop up in an authentic video filmed after May 1st, saying "Neener Neener, Ya Missed Me!", that will be proof enough for me.

vanxbebb's picture
vanxbebb 11 years 39 weeks ago

I am very proud of our President for acting Presidential! I would have been very disappointed if he would have come out with "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

dianhow 11 years 39 weeks ago

We do not need a Bin laden trial giving him time to spew his hate of USA and wasting many millions of dollars. Bin laden is not worth it. As for Intel , we have a mother load from Bin ladens home. Bless our brave Seals and our President Just heard ..Hannity was on TV saying " Obama is taking a victory lap at ground Zero ' !! These scummy Fox guys are lowest of the low . Even at a time like this They still smear Obama Hannity is obsessed a self righteous phony Christian . Can Hannity & Fox sink any lower ? YES they can and will !

MarleneD's picture
MarleneD 11 years 39 weeks ago

Our President and our great military did what was necessary; given all the facts they had at the time. It's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback when life and death decisions have to be made in a split second.

Bin Laden is dead and while I don't like killing for the sake of killing; being a retired law enforcement officer, I wholeheartedly agree with what was done and the fact that the President is right in withholding 'death' photos. They serve no purpose. Those who want to believe it's a fake (much like his birth certificate) won't believe the proof anyway and will say they are fake, so let's not put our country or troops in any more danger by being flambouyant over death photos.

mikethorne's picture
mikethorne 11 years 39 weeks ago

I agree with Obama not to release the photos because I know how angree and frustrated I feel when I see the carnage the criminals inflict on our people. But, I also agree with John Stewart that we should be exposed to the photos of what war really means.

I think we're to far removed from the realities of war.

reasonjr's picture
reasonjr 11 years 39 weeks ago

First of all Thom, I resent the title of "Deather" for someone who doesn't believe that Osama Bin Laden was killed. I personally do not believe Osama Bin Laden was killed "recently" or in the "past" and kept on ice, but since you enjoy tagging people with a name because they don't believe what you believe, so be it. I didn't call you a "Gullible" did I? No I didn't because you have about as much proof that he is dead as I have that he's still alive. Where is your proof that he is dead Thom? Do you have a privy we aren't entitled to? Please share this proof or detract your "Deather" comment please. I really like your show and I do find you an intelligent and interesting person to listen to, but when you start tagging a person with a name and you have no proof yourself, It kind of changes things for me. The "Birther" tag isn't any different than the "Deather" tag. It took years before Obama disclosed a piece of paper that should have been disclosed by him from the very beginning seeing as it became such a huge national issue, not that I doubted he was legal or anything, but it is a fishy little tidbit for some none the less. I know that if I were in his shoes, I would have shut all of their mouths by disclosing it and getting on with the matters at hand. Hell, anyone with his power can have someone create realistic "fake" documents in this day and age. I'm just saying 1+1=2. . . I think, but let me know if I'm wrong.

bobcox's picture
bobcox 11 years 39 weeks ago

We'll never "recover" from Bush's atrocities! I was born before Hoover became president and although there are situatioins requirung trying to get information from criminals, at no time has torture been effective. Also it is unfortunate that a trial and prison term in an isolated cell could not have happened, I won';t lose any sleep!

A country thar proclaims it is a country og laws and has prosecuted individuals of a defeated nation for "crimes" even though their actions were legal within their countryone wonder what form of ethics we practice. Many in our country claim Christianity and try to say our country was founded on those principles yet we perform as if treaties were pieces of paper and not applicable. Lawyers interpret laws as if they were meaningless. No wonder we are detested in so many parts of the world a htpocrites!

bletspleg's picture
bletspleg 11 years 39 weeks ago

"that's not who we are.".....oh, really? so you're saying we are the ruthless empire that makes up its own law AND after exacting our pound of flesh is simply too cool to brag. damn we be somebody!

Power Corrupts 11 years 39 weeks ago

Amen bletspleg! Where is your "Big Picture" Thom? This little political stunt is just like the last ones. Dead/Living, who cares?! It's irrelevant. Our democracy is what is dead, and to argue otherwise is either dishonest or foolish.

nordlie1 11 years 39 weeks ago

I think your'e walking in dangerous territory when you believe in President Obama. Believe in God. Save your body and soul for HE is terrorizing/cleansing the earth with tornadoes that are going places never before; destroying our nuclear plants by tsunami and the earth splitting open, for two examples. Please take my advice seriously, if you continue to give your power away to President Obama and don't need proof of Bin Laden's death as the majority of Americans have done yesterday - he will always say and do things and don't provide proof. He's not your parent and your'e his kid. He needs you to believe in his subliminal corporatist rhetoric agenda to enrich the wealthy pockets. Is this Cuba, North Korea, where dictators and communists state what you can and cannot have? Stop acting like it and demand visual proof while you can. Laws can be changed if not already, so it never will be attainable. Same for things he will deny us in the future. President Obama is terrorizing and bringing death to people by violent high tech means in Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan to name a few; plus here in America with the fear of Al Qaeda because of pictures he won't show of Bin Laden's alleged death. President Obama has authorized the breaking of levees to flood towns where people who don't have land so the Mississippi River will flood their towns. They are on their own but the rich land owners will be protected from God's unprecedented wrath (they think) because Obama broke the levees. President Obama's interests are not for you main street america. Obama and his administration are getting caught up in all kinds of lies about the death of Osama Bin Laden now. Oh what a web we weave when we first practice to deceive. Fear mongering galore to start another war no doubt when we supposed to be broke. Broke main street Americans. Obama even wants cuts to our entitlement plans. I guess since he has so many believers in him now all he needs to do is just say no I won't give you that again; you can't that either; and the majority of Americans will faithfully believe in him again when they don't have gas money to get anywhere or money to buy food to eat. Thom used to give us critical thinking regarding this presidency but now appears to be pushing Obama's agenda. Might as well watch MSNBC. Thanks for letting me share. Today in DC, several schools receive letters with white powder (which turned out to be starch) from Texas. Making fear happen. See this link on how they make news too:

should remind you of the Twitter sending the tweet that there's a helicopter over Bin Laden's house.

soccernona's picture
soccernona 11 years 39 weeks ago

I hope Obama stands firm and doesn't release any photos. As far as I'm concerned, he made his first mistake bowing to pressure by wearing a flag pin on his lapel. (as if that somehow proves one's patriotism)

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 11 years 39 weeks ago

Let's not forget the fact that brothers and sisters from every corner of the world were breathing a collective sigh of relief when Barack Obama became our 44th President. Up until that point many watched in horror as those in power used 911 as a justification to conduct war as a business for profit. This greed and ambition spawned much more global terror than Bin Laden and his misguided followers were ever able to foment.

I'm very proud of our military, and thank God they finally have a commander- in- cheif who respects them. The President and Navy Seals proved covert operations are the sensible direction for modern warfare when all diplomatic efforts have been exhausted. However the illegal manipulations that got us into this war, and subsequent abuse of our military to further the wealth and power of a few psychopaths was a great crime against humanity,and will be recorded forever in history as such.

President Obama as the unofficial leader of the free world is doing the right thing by not glorifying an act of war meant to end violence and global terror. Another great statesman named Thomas Jefferson held the same sentiment "It is for the benefit of mankind to mitigate the horrors of war as much as possible".

gerald's picture
gerald 11 years 39 weeks ago

More on Operant Conditioning

Satan’s disciples will start unrelentingly with lies and half truths to condition Americans with their fascist-Nazi nonsense. By the 2012 election American brains will automatically vote for fascist-Nazi politicians to take away American freedoms and rights to put a lock on the enslavement and impoverishment for all Americans. Exceptionality is given to American corporations and the American rich who have no compassion for the poor and the working classes in the United States.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 39 weeks ago

Doesn't anyone find it just a little bit of a coincidence that after 3 years Obama finally comes out with his birth certificate to embarrass the "birthers" and then, practically the next day, they allegedly kill OBL and are now trying to buy mileage with the similar "deathers" term? The idea being that if the birthers were wrong then so must be the deathers. People are such suckers for sound bites.

And does it not bother you that the administration can't seem to get the story straight about just what happened? The story keeps changing. I just learned that we had been watching and monitoring the alleged OBL at that compound for several months and that there were no weapons in the compound and that there were 13 children there as well. That he may have been under the protective custody of Pakistan which is why he was located next door to a Military Compound. He had a lap top but no access to the internet. All sounds like he was under some kind of arrest or protective custody by the Pakistanis.

And that Osama's wife was shot in the leg trying to protect Osama. And Osama ended up getting shot in the head as well. At first, the story was that he had a weapon and was in a fire fight and now the story is that he had no weapon. They could easily have taken him alive. I believe that it was all planned this way. The troops were ordered to shoot him in the head so that they would have an excuse not to show the pictures. The evidence was hastily dumped into the sea destroying any real lasting evidence. They claim they took dna samples but again..we have to believe that they did and that they are being honest about the dna results. You can get dna evidence on a hair follicle or blood sample which could have easily been taken when Osama had been in the hospital and those samples presented today as evidence...however, false evidence, that who they shot was Osama. If they had at least chopped off a finger which would easily have dismissed the probability that this was taken many years ago as could be the case with hair or blood samples, and presented the finger to various independent labs for testing then it would have been more believable. But Guilty Demeanor, changing testimony, and destroying evidence are things that often are used in courts of law to help convict the accused. Why do these powerful people always get away with everything?

dnarnadem 11 years 39 weeks ago

The Obama Haters are busy spinning webs of conspiracies and lies! Thank god for imagination!

But who in the world has the time to spin this stuff anyway?

gerald's picture
gerald 11 years 39 weeks ago

PRAY: Mother's Day Proclamation, 1870

by Julia Ward Howe

Arise then...women of this day!

Arise then...women of this day!

Arise, all women who have hearts!

Whether your baptism is of water or of tears!

Say firmly:

"We will not have questions answered by irrelevant agencies,

Our husbands will not come to us, reeking with carnage,

For caresses and applause.

Our sons shall not be taken from us to unlearn

All that we have been able to teach them

of charity, mercy and patience.

We, the women of one country,

Will be too tender of those of another country

To allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs."

From the bosom of a devastated Earth a voice goes up with

Our own. It says: "Disarm! Disarm!

The sword of murder is not the balance of justice."

Blood does not wipe out dishonor,

Nor violence indicates possession.

As men have often forsaken the plough and the anvil

At the summons of war,

Let women now leave all that may be left of home

For a great and earnest day of counsel.

Let them meet first, as women,

to bewail and commemorate the dead.

Let them solemnly take counsel

with each other as to the means

Whereby the great human family can live in peace...

Each bearing after his own time the sacred impress,

not of Caesar,

But of God -

In the name of womanhood and humanity, I earnestly ask

That a general congress of women

without limit of nationality,

May be appointed and held

at someplace deemed most convenient

And the earliest period consistent with its objects,

To promote the alliance of the different nationalities,

The amicable settlement of international questions,

The great and general interests of peace.

stopgap's picture
stopgap 11 years 39 weeks ago

Once and for all. There is no reason to show the photos because in the year 2011 photos are not proof of anything. Since photos can be easily photo-shopped and manipulated, they are proof of nothing and therefore there is no reason to release them.

bobk1998's picture
bobk1998 11 years 39 weeks ago

I agree 100%, the photos shiiold't be released. We as Americans are better than that. Isn't this the sort of thing that terrorists do? How many, myself included, were outraged to see pictures of dead Americans being displayed as trophies by terrorists? This is no longer the Bush administration, although we can' moun bin Laden's death, wa aren't barbaric enough to celebrate the death of a human.

juddyak's picture
juddyak 11 years 39 weeks ago

This issue as to weather OBL is dead or not, which I believe most Americans are content he is dead, highlights a bigger issue to me. Are politicians are so dishonest and partisan that they never debate true issues, rather they argue about what the facts are. It is difficult to have a discussion on an issue when you cant even agree to basic facts. Example is the congressman who blatently lied about Planned Parenthood.

If our politicians were at least honest on the facts and then debated differences in philosophy, these photos could be shown to upper level group of politicains on each side who could then validate his death, end of story!

I do not single out Republicans as spreading dishonesty either, we could come up with plenty of examples of both sides misrepresenting the facts for thier benifit! It is very sad.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 39 weeks ago

"wa aren't barbaric enough to celebrate the death of a human." Duh!! What do you think all of these simpleton a$$wipes are doing jumping around, cheering, and waving their stupid flags like like monkeys slinging their sh!t in cages at the zoo? These ultra-nationalistic, neanderthal bumpkins don't have two synaptic sparks to spare beyond their puppet-like ability to jump around like idiots on a string.

Neither were the NAZIs "barbaric enough to celebrate death of a human" who tried to bury all the evidence of the holocaust and that is basically what we try to do as well except we can't get away with it because there are such organizations as Wikileaks who show who we really are. Have you watched the helicopter massacre of Iraqis including the two Reuters News reporters? Tip of the iceberg. If Amercan media showed even a fraction of the atrocities American soldiers have committed, as Al Jazeera often does, then you wouldn't think we were so civilized. Only the flag-waving fool with his head buried up his a$$, or the a$$ of his favorite politician, is too "protected" from reality (for his own good...of course).

Jingoist, and other brainless twit Americans get suckered into being partners in crime and useful idiots for those criminal elite who mass murder people...even children...and they not only try to hide the evidence but get their dummy citizens to support their criminalities and war crimes by psychological blackmail and manipulation into mindlessly regurgitating slogans like "support our troops" and "you're with us or you're against us" and "bring it on" and on and on. And before you quip that most of these were Republican Bushian inanities and not something that Obama would say, then you haven't been paying attention...You are obviously brain-washed by the fallacy that the Democratic party (and in particular, Obama) is looking out for your (the non-ruling elite) interests and the "they are our only hope" and that "we have no other choice" and "yes, we can" (no, we didn't) and "hope, you can believe in" (you can believe in anything you want but the reality is that the "actions" speak louder than words....fact is Obama and the Democrats have dashed the hope out of any that remained and were once ignited by the pre-election words of Obama, etal). You can keep believing in any old ridiculous nonsense you choose to believe in but the fact is that ancient mythological icons will never rise again and hoping and praying has no more chance than chance (maybe 50%). And hoping and believing in the words of politicians who have already shown what side of the fence they are on...not a complete waste of time. Voting is a complete waste of time...because the system is are only helping to keep the illusion of democracy alive while the non-democratic forces continue to screw us all. The only way things will change is when the people, like in Egypt and many other places in the world now, are erupting in massive demonstrations in the streets..and more.

The only way things will change is if the people with all the gold realize that they won't be able to take that gold with them after the crowds rip them to shreds. Only then will it drive some fear of the people into their exploiting little heads and be forced to reverse their selfish, anti-democratic and criminal actions against the people.

Speaking of, according to Thom Hartmann, The Wall Street Journal has started it's own faux "Wikileaks"...called, what? Safe House? Yeah, right! A CIA Safe House no doubt.

That reminds me about the time a number of years ago when corporations like Enron and Worldcom got caught and went bust and there were whistleblowers against corporate misdeeds, shady accounting and reporting practices, that rattled many other heads of corporations and my own company, as did, probably, all the others, sent internal emails to the employees that if they think they have information on any corporate misdeeds or anything that "bothers" them that the company set up a special internal "whistleblower" department where employees could go and spill what they know and get it off their chests. Yeah, right! I'd trust Wikileaks any day over going to The Wall Street Journal...or any main-stream news media...they are all in cahoots with the ruling elite...they are part of the ruling elite.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 39 weeks ago

Right on mtabh8nu!!!
Actual photos of the results of our atrocities might just shake up some namby-pamby, holier-than-thou losers who only have myths of superiority and their own elevated sense of self worth as an American who can do no wrong. These people need to be awaken by reality in order to fully assess who we really are and what we have really done against our fellow human beings in this world.

Slick politicians get away with fooling some people some of the time but when their actions rebel against their words over and over again you have to be pretty obtuse to continue supporting them.

The Republican party is an obvious ultra puppet of the neocon/neoliberal establishment and do their bidding in the light of day. But the Democrats are sneaky sellouts. They try to foster the notion that they support the majority of the people..the workers..and the poor...but all but incorrigibly brain dead believers continue to hold out hope for the traitors, currently in office, who betrayed us. Now they are hoping to keep us voting for them again through more inane slogans and probably even a timely action rigged to benefit them politically. The ruling elite have Obama and company in their pockets and under their control.

Showing reality through pictures, videos, and what was once a relatively free press that reported on the atrocities we committed in Vietnam...and the Pentagon Papers...finally ended the lie of "falling dominoes" that was Vietnam. Visceral truth in the form of more leaks that show hard to look at photos and videos are needed to end the lies of WMD, spreading democracy, "fighting terrorists"...whatever is next. The real terrorists are the ones in uniform and occupying lands we have no business being in. The real terrorists are the ones with high tech weapons that mass murder civilians. The real terrorists are the ones that continue to tell lies that keep us over there. The real terrorists are the ones who are committing economic crimes against it's own population. The real terrorists are the ones that are trying to turn us all into debt peons to work for slave wages or starve or die of some treatable illness we cannot afford to have treated.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 39 weeks ago

I noticed this attempt too. But Alex Jones is so forceful and overpowering that Thom didn't succeed very well. Of course they do the same thing, but many times worse, on Fox News. I wish people would quit trying to talk over other people and essentially blank out what is being said. It's not very civil. (some people with excellent hearing and verbal cognition may have full duplex and mulitplexing switched on but my biological equipment only allows half duplex mode and so all I get is GIGO- Garbage In Garbage Out). And when people talk over other people neither person is understandable so it's like when some kid puts his hands over his ears, when in an argument with another kid, and is saying "na na na na, I can't hear your!!! This kind of crap I expect from Fox news...which I never watch anyway. I sometimes wish that each person on radio or TV, or even in real life situations, had a squelch button or a timed and allotted open mic time to say his piece and could not be overtalked by anyone. With typed info...people can just scan over what looks like lengthy garbage easily enough..not read it...and go on to other more interesting giggles please!! But on TV or radio programming you can't do that so easily. I especially hate it when they have a debate and they talk over each other. There should be more enforced order in debates at least.

Of course, if the guest does it to the host, then why not the host to the guest. There have been instances in past shows where the guest needed to have their verbal diarrhea hosed down. But it ends up as just a bunch of unintelligible noise that I'd rather not listen to.

I like Thom and I agree with most of what he says..especially when he comes down on the corporate ruling elite and banksters. I also like Alex Jones for many reasons as well. They both, as do many of the other talk show hosts, have commonalities and differences. There are so many interesting talk shows like Guns and Butter, The Ed Show, Dylan Ratigan, Truth Jihad, and a lot of others that I find worth listening to....and to people like Michael Hudson, the economist, and Jim Hightower whose frequent, but brief, social commentaries I never miss....he blows them out of the water!

leighmf's picture
leighmf 11 years 39 weeks ago

He is right to not show photos, but the fact is, it is who the Carlyle Group is- a brain-damaged alliance which for the 37th Congress, and all their heirs and assigns of the Union Pacific forever, will continue to promote and exploit the sturdy youth of America to protect and acquire their property for their families, fight their enemies, manning their weapons they sold to both sides, along with all the necessary catering, cans, funeral supplies and modes of transportation.


SueN's picture
SueN 11 years 39 weeks ago

May I remind people that it is against the rules of this board to attack fellow members. I have had to remove several posts from this thead.

Please do not stoop to personal attacks however provoked, but flag the posts as offensive, leave us to deal with them, and move on.

t. metzger's picture
t. metzger 11 years 39 weeks ago

This entire issue is a circus. Not showing the pictures and dumping the body sounds more like a mob operation than a military operation. The truth will eventually out. It feeds into a new bad mouth Pakistan program. India,Israel,U.S. against Pakistan,China etc

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