Norway is in mourning after Friday’s terrorist attacks that killed more than 90 people – including more than 80 people gunned down on a remote island campsite. Shortly after the attack – Conservatives here in the United States pointed to Norway’s lack of a state security complex as a reason why they were vulnerable to a terrorist attack. But now we realize Islamic terror had nothing to do with Friday’s chaos in the Nordic nation. The man in custody for the attacks is Ander Behring Breivik – a white Christian Fundamentalist who was lashing out against Norway’s Labour Party for their progressive approach to immigration and social welfare. This is the same sort of that Republicans bashed the Obama Administration for warning the nation about back in 2009.
And it’s the same sort of terrorism that’s far more prevalent here in the United States than Islamic terrorism – but the threat is largely ignored because the Fox News hate machine has whipped up so much fear against Muslims – that other threats are inconceivable to the American people.
Water-Board a White Man?
...Will the blond, white, right-wing Christian extremist be water-boarded in an attempt to gather information about any others involved in the attack? Will he be water-boarded in an attempt to gather information about other planned attacks and the scope of the network he referred to? Will his maid (if he had one) be "rendition"ed to Gitmo and held incommunicado in an attempt to gain information?
Or do we only do these things to people with brown skin and dark hair?
I ask all Americans to think about how they feel about a right-wing white man being water-boarded in order to get at the truth about why we allow horrible things to be done to some members of the human race. It is still about color. Shamefully.... It is still about color.
THis was a case of madness and the heartless rage of a twisted mind.
Granted it was madness
-- but I repeat Thom's question:
Why do we call it madness when the perpetrator is white, and terrorism when the perp is brown?
Reagan FORCED the banks to extend loans to the USSR!
I don’t believe a race of people was deliberately slighted because the massacre was referred to as an act of lunacy instead of terror. No ideology is worth taking a life.
the question of lunacy vs terror is not about being slighted. Giffords was shot by a man who is clearly mentally incompetent. but having a different view isn't necessarily insane. However, when you act in a way that intimidates others - and results in death or is meant to -- that is an of terrorism - instead of bullying.
This is a case of madness just like that of the man who murdered in Arizona. The madness was inspired by hate messages from far right Christian Conservatives. I expect they will continue to fan the hatred and that more of these events will occur. This is what happens when religion mixes with politics, both are corrupted. If the Christians would keep their minds focused on loving their fellow man instead of hating those who are not Christian or who are gay or members of an ethnic group, they would bring positive results. These far right Christians only seem to be happy when they are spewing hatred.
Of course the perpetrator is mad. However, with out someone lighting his fuse he would not have blown up as he did. Instead of helping to heal his illness, they encourage it and stimulate the madness to action. They seem to reveal in his actions rather than act to diminish the pain these dreadful madmen endure.
He was a far right wing white man who hated all Muslims even kids. Hate has no religeon It has no soul. Must be stamped out whenever possible. .
Right- Baggers, Palen Bachman & many others have made hateful inflamatory comments - like Palens ' Reload ' called Obama vile names: Anti Christ Muslim Hater of whites - Not like us- Newt called him a Neo colonial Mao Mao ! Fox Hannity & Beck have done the same. The Right wing / Baggers - GOP Fox have Vilified Obama from day one. To me that behavior suggests unbalanced violence leaning people.
Eirik Bergesen wrote a brilliant article on the Norwegian response to this incidence. See it here. Rather than respond with fear and hand-wringing, the Norwegians are picking themselves up and getting back to work. While foreign media started flipping out and blaming Islam, Norwegian media kept its cool, seeking to inform, not to inflame. Rather than giving in to fear and thereby allowing the terrorist to "win" so to speak, Norway is returning to normal, in effect saying, You can't get us down. What an honorable, strong nation. Too bad the rest of the world cannot follow its example. Of course, if we did, perhaps fewer attacks like these would happen.
Bergesen says: "The typical step a society takes after a terrorist attack is towards stricter security measures. It happened after 9/11 and has continued to happen in the US in the decade that is soon to have passed. Obviously, as a symbol of Western civilisation the US is a more prominent terrorist target, and concise parallels are difficult to draw. However, Norway has surprised foreign observers I have spoken to, and maybe even ourselves, in that we instead have managed to take a step back. Through careful reflection proving that there are other ways of maintaining order than merely through more rules and regulations. That increasing the social trust, in a society that already enjoys amongst the highest levels of social trust in the world, is a more rewarding option."
The boogeyman is everywhere and what the brainwashers have done is turn the lunatic fringe into the biggest cowardess bunch of boogeymen the world has seen since WW II and the "einsatzgruppen" you'd think by now we'd learn. But the biggest tragedy is the judicial system and the complete lack of extreme punishment for such terrorist action there should be no prejudice! Got death penalty with out appeal?
i'm as white on rice, blonde and all the other jive that goes with it! lol. personally? forget the water board just hang the guy and then hang him again and be done with it. But make sure Mr Murdoch broadcasts it on all of his stations over and over and over to let the others know that now there will be "NO TOLERENCE". i did not bring kids into the world to turn around and have to teach them to be fearfull of the mall and which lunatic might be lurking in the masses today, vigalince is good but all said?,anarchy is right around the corner...
There is no shortage of hate inspiration and it has many sources from which to be distributed from. Out of fear and ignorance some folks are so vulnerable to the messages in the mainstream and cult sources they lose all sense of reality. Maybe they perceive themselves heros, or martyrs from the unstable mental state, but a little temperance for truth in the media certainly couldn't hurt. I'm not surprised at how damaging the neo con response is to these out rages by the disturbed, and yet they issue no apology for their misconceptions or accept no responcibility for tragedy, and offer no positive agenda for the avoidance of domestic terrorism. I believe George Carlin when he stated things will never change because the owners of this country don't want change.
Just read Juan Coles Informed Comment at Alternet. I am concerned , I think we don't look in the mirror anymore to see who we really are. I see history repeating itself, Germany right before World War II. The names change but the evil remains.
Philip, Well said, and I think in addition to far right Christian Conservatives inspiring hate, it's no secret Fox and corp. media in general are being used as, "rich guy tools", to manipulate and control vulnerable minds. The religious right folks are easy targets and based on this, the media will be careful not to offend a base that votes the way guys like Murdoch intend. Nothing will change as a result of this Christian Jihadist Terrorism.
One change kind of related, I would like to see though, is tax exempt status removed from all church organizations involved in political manipulation of frightened people!
Ever heard of Americans Elect? They have been petitioning at various Malls, Shopping Centers, and Walmarts. Seems that they now have the required number of signatures to get their Presidential Canidate on the ballot....now who will he be? David Petreaus?
For more in-depth realization of who founded Americans Elect..check out Peter Ackerman, whose son is now sitting as acting Chairman.
Peter Ackerman got wealthy on CDOs, sits on a right-wing think tank that wants to privatize social security, and is thought by many to be an imperialist because some believe his idea is to overthrow governments financially and subversively from within...probably, including this one.
Don't be fooled by the nice sounding name of the International Center For Non-Violent Conflict (ICNC)which is also chaired by Ackerman.
"American-Venezuelan lawyer Eva Golinger alleged that during 2005 and 2006, the ICNC trained Venezuelan youths to try to reverse the government of Hugo Chávez, through "[impeding] the electoral process and [creating] a scenario of fraud". Golinger claimed that the ICNC did this together with USAID and NED as part of a systemic plan of implementing United States foreign policy aims in democratic countries."
And along with those petitioners at the local Malls is a petition by a group called Californians Against Special Interests. This petition initially sounds very much what most working people would probably think was in their interests. But:
"Bid to block union political contributions collects cash
The cash is rolling in for proponents of a proposed initiative to block unions from using dues paid through automatic payroll deductions for political contributions.
Californians Against Special Interests, the committee formed to support the proposal, reported $280,000 in contributions over the weekend, including large checks from the committee for a failed effort to qualify a similar measure for the 2010 ballot, conservative activists and the Lincoln Club of Orange County. The recent contributions bring the committee's total cash raised to $345,000.
A similar "paycheck protection" measure, backed by then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, was defeated in the 2005 special election he called."
Problem with these petitions is that, I'd venture, most people who sign them have no idea that they are actually hurting themselves. None I've ever seen, that signed the petitions, looked like they were right wing Republicans. At least they looked like they could use an increase in social security or other social benefits. But, who knows, maybe they all watch Fox and vote against their best financial interests anyway.
I would probably strap his white behind to a water board in one second if it could save a life. By the way, this maniac may not be a Christian Extremist (compare to, Muslim Extremist) because there is no "Christian Extremist" movement; no structure, no support, no members. No, that can't be right, after seeing how quickly "Christian Extremists" were figuratively hauled into court, tried, found guilty, and thrown under the bus by America's "free" press. Well, that was earlier; now, Aders Behring Breivik is no longer called a "Christian"; now he is being "labeled" a "Right Wing Extremist". (See, coverage in The NY Times, articles in order). Many articles and commentators, in the States, did not even find it worth mentioning that the Muslim terrorist organization "Global Jihad", immediately claimed responsibility for the cowardly attacks. The spokesman for "Global Jihad" alleged the attacks were made in retribution for the presence of Norwegian troops in Afghanistan and because the Prophet Muhammad had been wronged by the publication of a cartoon in the Norwegian press several years ago. Christians (extreme and/or not so extreme), are more the sort to turn the other cheek. In fact, I bet that many Christians would be dead set against water boarding, regardless of skin color or ideology. Shalom.
Fantastic Richard Wolff audio program, Thom. Thanks for your link.
Christians, like Muslims, are so varied in their views...and not unified as some people would like us to believe...that one cannot really say that all Muslims are jihadist terrorists or all Christians are right-wing terrorists. There are even some Muslims who are practically atheists...they don't even practice their religion as fastidiously as others do..if at all. And, there are Christians and Jews who are practically atheists. Although I would find it hard to imagine that any Christian could be considered an atheist...lots of hypocrites, for sure.....some Jews are atheists only because they might adhere to a genetic characteristic of being a Jew while rejecting the religion or any religion or God.
I am more worried about the economic terrorists, the high-priests of laissez-faire capitalism, than about some guy going off his rocker. The economic terrorists can actually send a lot of people off their rockers if they don't kill them first through starvation or disease or homelessness. The loss of loved ones caused by economic terrorists could cause a lot of people to flip out. And even if no one reacts in such a fashion the economic terrorists are still creating way, way more damage to way more people than a lone wacko. It really is institutionalize terrorism.
Compare the number of people who die of cancer due to cigarette smoking every year...or of auto accidents.....way more people die of those things than a lone "terrorist" act or a "wacko" act. But many more will suffer homelessness, illness, or death than all of those put together when the economic terrorists strikes.
I watched the new movie "Captain America" about a sickly, small-bodied, man..bullied all his life...wants to join the army to fight the evil Nazis during WWII. The evil Nazis are superseded by an even more evil and vile creature of a man and his super force of Warriors. The small man is transformed into a super human Captain America. I kept thinking during the movie that maybe we need a Captain America to fight our own EVIL FASCIST REPUBLICANS and NEOLIBERALS who are destroying America. I know....I need to get a life!! Yes, it's fun to fantasize but real life takes more than that.
There is not alot of waterboarding done in Norway.
As if this operative came out of nowhere- his graphic presentation alone shows Madison Avenue organization, and the mechanical execution of victims, mind-control.
The Klan, an organization which in 1921 claimed to have more watchers than any organization in the world, was always expert in propaganda dissemination. It has evolved several disguises of confusion since its early times, not to be associated with the robed Knights of the Invisible Empire. This PLOT uses Knights Templar and harkens energy back to Scottish Rite, the crazy Albert Pike version which corrupted the Treasury.
It is typical of The Union Pacific to enact a crooked deal in Congress while the world is distracted by terror and mourning, such as The Civil War.
Brother killing Brother, for Brothers in banking and oil.
This is a case for LC, The Saint, and Jimmy Starr, to be certain. It's hard to say who can be trusted in Scotland Yard.
Thom: Omega 7 was an anti-castro Cuban-American terrorist organization very active during the 70's and 80's in the USA. They assassinated, bombed, killed those they considered simpatizers of the Cuban revolution in the USA. In Puerto Rico and in Miami they targeted other Cubans who supported the improvement of relationships between USA and Cuba.
Geez...lets see, the major in texas kills a bunch of people but dare we say he is muslim.....white guy kllls a bunch in Oslo, he a christian???? kind of two faced???? Both are wackos, one is a muslim wacko, but the main stream and wacko left and right love to lable and cause fear......
Thom, check the facts first dont play the same role that the lame stream media does.....truth please...facts please....
Omega 7 was an anti-castro Cuban-American terrorist organization very active during the 70's and 80's in the USA. They assassinated, bombed and killed those they considered simpatizers of the Cuban revolution in the USA. They targeted,In Puerto Rico and in Miami and New york, other Cubans who supported the improvement of relationships between USA and Cuba.
"To conquer, first divide!"
This is my first time posting here and like other sites of this type one must expect that "opinions" can range far and wide, based on knowledge, prejudice and perceived self interest. Mr Hartmann is as stated in the opinion business and as such faces an unavoidable conflict of interest in that, with any area of controversy, any actual resolution or solution ultimately confers the gift of "unemployment" to the provider. Now one would think that given the sheer number of intractable conflicts available for resolution, this does not pose much of a threat for him and others engaged in such activities and having read some of his material, I believe that he is both well intentioned and a useful voice in the progressive struggle to determine both the TRUTH and solutions to various issues and problems both as a nation and a planet which seems to be on verge of self imposed extinction. Clearly it is this latter threat which demands that SOLUTIONS must be acknowledged and endorsed despite the threat of adverse effects to perceived self interest.
This discussion, motivated by the events in Norway has indeed generated a lot of comments, but the essential elements for us as citzens of the united States was resolved with the Ratification of the Bill of Rights. Acts of terrorism based on mythologies can not be justified nor are they worthy of discussion or consideration, in the united States, with the single exception of those cases where members of a particular mythology are subject to persecution because of that mythology.
The First Article of the Bill of Rights prohibits the government from interferring with or endorsing any particular "faith based" mythology thereby granting both the freedon to believe and the freedom from being compelled to believe any particular mythology. Article Six states that This constitution and the laws made pursuant to it.....shall be the Supreme Law of the Land......and continues by stating that,"no religious test" can be imposed as a requirement for holding public office which clearly establishes "seperation of mythology and state". Any claim to the contrary, regardless of demographic popularity or erroneous historical revisionism can not be reasonably supported or believed in the face of these FACTS. ( at least for us here in the united States.)
Which leaves us with the problem of the diverse mythologies in the rest of the world, which for at least half of the current seven billion seem to be variations of the monotheism inspired by hebrew origins. For those "true believers" all of whom cite the basis of their faith as DIVINELY INSPIRED, one must ask, that if such a claim were reasonably expected to be TRUE, why any variation exists at all? Why would such a DIVINE source of TRUTH, keep getting it wrong, over and over and over?
But the real problem with this diversity of variation is the internal requirement of "compulsory conversion" of others, to one's own variation in order to ACHIEVE the REWARD promised by that variation of the mythology. That this continues can clearly be laid at the feet of those whose perceived self interest benefits by maintaining such intolerance and curiously this persists, even though most "believers" are in fact "tolerant" of other mythologies. ( even islamists ) Even if one could grant such concern for the salvation of others as being laudable, one could reasonably argue that potential conversion is only possible for the living, and therefor the death of a non-believer also condemns them to the fate the TRUE BELIEVER is claiming to be helping them avoid. oops!
Clearly, such extremism which invokes violence compelled by mythology must be condemned by anyone claiming to be a reasoned and responsible leader, especially here in the united States, and this reasoning must be clearly presented as being derived from Supreme Law of the Land, and not some misguided attempt at a politically correct position for personal advantage, which would be both disingenuous and in our country, CRIMINAL!
"Do not ask for whom the bell tolls.................."
On the money flyguy8650, but I doubt it will make a bit of difference.
Clearly, the "Divine Source" erred, by failing to consult worldly wisdom, beforehand.
You are missing something. I believe you are missing the point altogether with this false dichotomy. We should condemn all radical & lethal dogmatism in any form, whether it be Christian, Islamic, or some other distorted fundamentalism.
We should condemn any dogmatism that threatens our free society. Skepticism and critical thinking are the only solutions to this human dilemma.
This Week's Show "Pay For It"
In show 929
Pay for It (7-24-11), President Jefferson offers his insight about America's financial problems and what the nation should do about it.