Welcome to Tea Party rule in America where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short
By louisehartmann
Another Republican debate last night – and this time the crowd stole the show. CNN hosted the Tea Party debate down in Tampa, Florida – which took place in front of a raucous crowd of Tea Partiers unafraid to cheer on radical claims made by the candidates. The debate itself featured some heated exchanges between front-runners Rick Perry and Mitt Romney – over Perry’s description of Social Security as a Ponzi scheme – a claim he slightly walked back from last night. It also featured a full assault led by Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum against Perry for mandating young girls in Texas receive HPV vaccines – clearly not an issue that millions of American who’ve lost their jobs care about – yet an issue that piques the interest of Republican culture warriors.
But the most shocking moment of the debate came when moderator Wolf Blitzer asked Libertarian Ron Paul if a 30-year-old who didn’t have health insurance was in dire need of medical care – should our nation just let him die. As Paul stumbled to answer – the crowd yelled out “Yes!” calling for people without health insurance to be left to die. After the debate – reacting to the blood thirst in the Tea Party crowd – former Congressman Alan Grayson put it best when he said, “It's sadism, pure and simple. It's the same impulse that led people in the Coliseum to cheer when the lions ate the Christians. And that seems to be where we are heading -- bread and circuses, without the bread. The world that Hobbes wrote about – ‘the war of all against all.’”
Congressman Grayson is right. If the economy doesn’t improve – and Rick Perry is the Republican choice – then welcome to Tea Party rule in America where life is solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
Comments
#2
we have a weak President because the power of the United States is within the Pentagon and the CIA.Revelations came out the Obama transition team was scare of a coup if they seeked to hold Bush administration accountable for war crimes. Johan Galtung has stated that the power of the United States is within the military and CIA not the Whitehouse. Need to expose the true nature of the power of the military and CIA and bring America into the 21 century with soft power to change the mindset of hard power. this effects all sectors of American society from economic to social.
#3
I am having feelings of unreality, I think.
#4
Speaking as a doctor myself, and being a supporter of socialized medicine, I was suprised to find myself with some level of agreement with Ron Paul, as this question was put forwards. Of course we can't let him die, but the hypothetical man had made a conscious decision to risk not buying insurance. The followup question that should have been asked is 'how about someone who lost their job and insurance because of poverty' - the answer there is unambiguous.
That question underscores why we need to have a system where these questions are moot, like medicare for all, and even in this unfortunate insurance based Obamacare, why the mandate is important.To leave it to the churches - when someone needs hundreds of thousands in care - is rediculous.
Still, it points out a touchy place that I do have a concern about - where is the line between a safety net and abdication of personal responsibility?
Further, I agree with Paul that that bringing market forces into play in healthcare is a good idea, one that would not be served by socialized med or by our present insurance environment. Expensive high tech services paid for routinely, and the lack of coverage for certainly less inexpensive, and perhaps more efficatious alternative health care, which is generally not covered by medicare or insurance, needs to be in the loop to create competitive price pressure.
I therefore advocate a 2 level healthcare system, much like Health savings accounts. Individuals would be required (or not?) to fund their own account for routine outpatient health care, and that would be subsidized for the poor. Then, high deductible medicare-like coverage would be provided for everyone for expenses of over, say 3-7,000 per year in today's dollars. A portion or even all of whatever is left would act as a retirement bonus - medicare would take over after 65, same as now. This would incentivize people to make their own day-to-day healthcare decisions, taking into account price, preference of practitioner (alternative or allopathic) and so on. It would instill a bit more self responsibility at the same time.
#5
Yes the question was loaded, involving a hypothetical healthy 30-year-old with a good job, who just doesn't 'feel like' paying premiums for health insurance.
Now first of all, this is like the old 'welfare queens' of Reagan's era: fictional women - probably black - driving Cadillacs and getting welfare in dozens of different names. Most such cases turned out to be social workers basically engaged in fraud, not destitute women with kids.
So here's this hypothetical, self-centered, thoughtless jerk, ripping us all off. And in a crowd in whom the urge to punish is strong, naturally they hate him.
But the picture painted was not for the idiots in the audience so much as the general public. And to subtly support Paul's POV.
How would it seem if Blitzer had asked Paul about a young mother of three whose husband got laid off and is unable to make insurance payments and continue to live indoors and feed the kids?
Or the couple 5 or 10 years away from retirement who will have to mortgage their house to pay for all the deductibles, and end up in bankruptcy or foreclosure?
Paul would have had more to stutter about, and, whether the crowd on hand cheered or not, the TV audience would be impressed - and not in a good way. It's too bad that this sort of thing is now called 'debate.'
#6
Ok, so Ron Paul thinks people who don't have health insurance should just up and die. Alright, fine.
Next question, Mr. Paul: do those people whom you want to just go die somewhere, have the absolute libertarian freedom to come and die on your doorstep, so you have to step over their dead bodies on your way to work every morning? Or would you prefer that they die somewhere else, so you have the freedom to not walk over their dead bodies? But what do we do if they WANT the freedom to die on your doorstep, even though you want the freedom for them not to? Golly, there's so many important decisions to make in a world where everyone is, like, totally, absolutely like, free.
Ok, earth calling Ron Paul, come in please: NO ONE can have absolute freedom on this earth, BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE HERE BESIDES YOU! (Being only thirty years old, you probably haven't had time to look around you and notice that there are other people, because you've been so busy protecting their, like, absolute and total freedom.) So, by all means feel free to pretend that you are the only person alive on this planet and that your personal freedom matters more than anyone else's. Because you do have the freedom to be a selfish, oafish, crude, cruel, mean-hearted, inconsiderate, lying, death-dealing poopy-pants.
I've seen people like you when they are dying, and the instant they realize that they really are dying, it's "Oh, help me this," and "Oh, help me that," as all of their much-vaunted "principles of freedom" go flying out the window. You hypocrite.
#7
Market forces are already in play in health care. I've never made enough to purchase health insurance, nor did most jobs I took to support my children provide it. One did, but the job paid so little and the commute was so long and costly, I couldn't stay. I worked as a clerical temp, usually. But I was far luckier than my mom! 'Market forces' were really unchecked when she found herself divorced at age 53 in the 50s. Employers in offices routinely and openly advertised for "girls' who were 'attractive, under 35' so she went into dime store jobs and babysitting and housework, none of which were covered by the minimum wage, nor did they offer health insurance. Fortunately we were healthy - if underweight.
#8
The nation is better than the Tea Party. The so-called Tea Party is a tiny but loud minority of the people of this nation. If they succeed in pushing the eventual Republican nominee to the very far right, then they will have trouble in the general election. The Tea Party does not represent the best of America. Sometimes they represent the worst. Many of the Tea Party members were active in the 'militias' of the 1980's and 1990's. These are crazy but stupid people. The crazier they become the more likely that intelligent Democrats will come to the polls and vote for intelligent Democratic candidates for Congress, the Statehouse, and state legislatures. We need to re-elect a Democratic President, but he or she needs help to carry on the nation's business.
I don't understand these Democrats who say they may not vote for Obama because "he" didn't do what he was elected to do. He cannot do this work by himself. . . he needs support in the House of Representatives and in the United States Senate.
Philip Henderson, Ethical Magician
#9
It's true - I've known some real anti-socialist types who took everything they could get when they were able to get Medicare and social security. Even Ayn Rand got ss and medicare in her husband's name - and surely, such a successful author could have afforded to take care of herself!!! But Ron Paul would not have to walk over dead bodies in his utopia, because private property would be sacrosanct and there would be no public property - roads, bridges, all of it, privately owned and probably charged for. At whatever price the market will bear.
#10
HE completely reversed himself on every issue.
He appointed anti-socialized med, pro-insurance company guys to head the health care commission.
He appointed anti-social security acivists to his deficit commission, and now he is DEFUNDING Social Security through the payroll tax.
He said he'd revisit NAFTA, but he's pushing for more free trade agreements instead.
Not one progressive on his economic team - all Wall St guys and bankers.
His jobs 'czar' has spent his time as a CEO exporting jobs overseas.
I thought he was against torture and extrajudicial executions and rendition, but those have gone up and he's added US citizens to the list of who can be executed on his order alone. And btw, the dumping of Osama bin Laden's body in the sea is the most inexplicable action I can imagine - and I don't believe it.
He went to war in Libya off his own bat.
He's expanded effing DRONE BOMBING!!!
He refused to investigate/prosecute the war crimes and lies of the last administration.
He said nuclear power was too dangerous, but even after Fukushima, continues to push it. One of his first acts in office was to grant 'mountaintop removal' permits, and he let BP get away with murder and even handed them the Coast Guard to keep reporters and photographers from seeing all the damage.
He and his staff openly scoff at liberals who expected him to be a liberal, for some reason. He came into office with a GREAT mandate and squandered it.
David Frum said the GOP fears their 'base' and the Dems hate theirs, which makes sense when you consider the way they treat us, but I think the word 'despise' is more apt, because hatred implies some sort of respect.
#11
Ah, but even if private property is sacrosanct, are we going to trust big government to tell us who owns what property? I thnk not. Big govenrment can't be trusted to do anything. So how is Ron Paul going to prove that he owns his land and his house? With a Gun? Problem is, what if the people who want to die on his doorstep also have guns? When libertarianism is examined in light of what real people do in real situations, it falls completely apart, just like all republican and tea party insanty falls apart.
Ron Paul is great at sound bytes, but short on memory. He doesn't own the land his house was built on. Native Americans own it, because they were there long before him, and he should give it back to them because he is infringing on their absolute right to private property. But wait! According to the Most Holy Libertarian Values, even the Native Americans don't own that land. The prarie dogs, gnats, and bees own it. So really, Mr. Paul should immediately vacate the premises out of respect for their private property rights. And he should not seek government assistance in his anti-freedom attempt to infringe on the private property rights of the insects.
#12
I agree but wonder who they have waiting i the wings.
#13
We have gone far beyond the power of the Pentagom and CIA. Now the power is in the hands of multinational corporations who have no loyalty to any nation.
#14
To AARWDC:
You have come up with a highly plausible program for health care. You now need a large enough following so that your idea can become a movement. I have been a patient of an Integrative M.D. practitioner, paying out of my SS stipend for his excellent services that keep me in good health. I will be 86 years of age on 10/4. I take no pharmaceuticals, but an adequate supply of supplements that keep my body in good nutritional balance. I consider my payments as the best investment in health I have ever made. I am receiving true "Health Care" as opposed to the drug-based sick care. I understand that the FDA is working with the pharmaceutical industry to make the production of supplements prohibitively expensive through draconian regulations that will give an open field to pharmaceuticals. How sad.
#15
Nice try, but the President does not stand by his convictions. I am a registered voter in California which allows "Decline to State" as a choice. I do not vote in the primaries, but vote in the general elections. I was a registered Dem for 40 years, but left in disgust watching Mr. Obama and the party run and hide. I am a decorated combat veteran of Vietnam (Purple Heart, Bronze Star with V Device, Army Commendation Medal with V Device and Combat Infantryman's Badge with Oak Leaf Cluster--the V device stands for Valor in ground combat. ) I know what it means to take a stand and fight, and I have yet to see Mr. Obama take one. Thank you.
#16
A comparison to the ancient Romans is appropriate, but the Tea Party people are beginning to sound more like Nazis and fascists than members of a democracy. It seems that not all Americans are in it together, and actually cheering for pain, suffering and death for your fellow human beings is abhorrent and shows great ignorance. How many of the Tea Party members are collecting social security and/or Veterans benefits or have Medicare or Medicaid. Let them be the first to give up these forms of government support. Let them come forward to be counted by their names and be the first to say no to federal disaster aid for themselves. Let them rebuild their homes with their own two hands.
#17
A comparison to the ancient Romans is appropriate, but the Tea Party people are beginning to sound more like Nazis and fascists than members of a democracy. It seems that not all Americans are in it together, and actually cheering for pain, suffering and death for your fellow human beings is abhorrent and shows great ignorance. How many of the Tea Party members are collecting social security and/or Veterans benefits or have Medicare or Medicaid. Let them be the first to give up these forms of government support. Let them come forward to be counted by their names and be the first to say no to federal disaster aid for themselves. Let them rebuild their homes with only their own two hands.
#18
I agree with a lot of what you say. I'd like to say something about the President not pursing torture investigations. Mr. Obama was correct not to push for these investigations. Why? Simply because no responsible President would destroy our country's intelligence services in time of war. Mr. Obama inherited not just the two visible shooting wars of Mr. Bush, but secret operations involving American service men and women in many other countries as well. If you want to investigate torture, start with those responsible for all of it: George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.
#19
This horrible, "Let them die" attitude comes from the right wing radio talk show hosts and Fox News show hosts.
I am horrified, but not surprised. What awful people, I don't see how they can live with themselves.
No conscience, no empathy, no concern for a fellow human being. They "Got Theirs" so--- you go "get yours." It you don't, then too bad.
#20
Looks like the Tea Party has "Death Panels."
I agree with the comment by Scarrino, the Tea Party is starting to sound like the Nazis or fascists.
It is scary. The Tea Party sounds like Sociopaths.
#21
Texas confiscated a couple when he broke his hip and his wife stayed at the hospital during his confinement. They 'stole' his retirement and put them in a nursing home that costs almost their entire retirement income. They are allowed 1 tv and the rest is ln their house in Richardson with the doors left unlocked! Food is rotting in the refirgerator and their is nothing they can do becaue the state says they are 'incompetent This came up in my group on Facebook, Arkansas For A Better government. Something the people don't know about Rick Perry. Frankly, the Tea Party radicals scare me and should scare everyone who supports them. A guy on CNN weighed their comments with facts and showed that Perry's comments that the stimulus didn't work was a lie. They all lie or distort the truth and people actually believe them? I almost gagged just listening to a little of what came out of their mouths. Of all of them, I am only slightly less leary of Mitt Romney.
#22
My reaction to the republican debate, I find it pretty amazing that any of these extremely marginal characters have the gaul to stand up in front of the free world and proclaim their desire to be its leader. For a bunch of sociopathic zealots to make it this far illustrates just how dangerous and destructive to society the right wing mass media has truly become.
#23
This is not a 'time of war' - this is a time of endless bombing of helpless civilians by 'pilots' sitting in some booth with a video game - and they call the destroyed homes and villages 'bug splats' - the war going on here is a war against our freedom by our own government. And the intel agencies are traitors to our republic.
#24
If our country is headed for a coup then so be it. We could, in that way, advance our history in a few short months to that which might otherwise take years of slow change. It would be interesting to see and hear the reactions of those who had previously supported the military upon finding that the military had risen to wrest political control from their beloved tea party. It would be an exercise of the right against the right. The loyal opposition, us, would win simply by doing nothing beyond handing out bandaids.
Infighting is like inbreeding. All we have to do is wait it out.
#25
What is the basis for our reticence in calling Republicans fascists? I can see avoiding the word Nazi. But why avoid fascist? These people are, demonstrably, fascists in their political and economic goals.
So, barring terms that are not available to us for historical reasons, what should we call this group of sadistic fascists? Funny how the terms run hand in hand, sadistic fascist; each begats the other.
#26
One out of six currently living in poverty. Hey Rick, Mitt, is this mission accomplished or just a bunch of healthy, young, but lazy people looking for a free ride? I think I already know what's in your little heads.
Hardly a word mentioned by the mainstream media about the republicans blocking disaster relief funds. I wonder how this would play if the democrats were doing the blocking?
I have to run now...still have one of those rare things called a job!
#27
Facism is more closely related to social democracy, since both are corporatist. It seems to me, that the "tea party" would be the opposite of corporatist.
#28
These hardcore right-wing tea-partiers (the ones who called for the hypothetical coma victim to die and cheered when Rick Perry's execution record was announced) are the same people who bought and sold the "death panel" lie when Obama Care was under consideration...no?
Tired of hypocrisy.
#29
NICE in the British system makes decisions that could be called life and death, a death panel of sorts. Expensive drugs, are as a rule, not allowed to enter the system.
#30
Good work. He also sided with the Reublicans who tried to throw more than 1 million veterans out of the VA health care system during the budget debate. That is not a step forward.
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The Strange Politics Of The US 2012 ElectionPart 1, What Both Parties Are Up To
By Jack A. SmithURL of this article: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26467
"The president does indeed fight for his convictions, much to the dismay of the liberals and progressives — a prominent sector of his own party constituency whom he mocked as the "professional left," then rendered powerless by furling his brows. The problem isn't the president's "weakness" but his now only partially disguised moderate conservative convictions that allow him to pull his party to the right in the name of bipartisanship, even if it takes humiliating his most fervent supporters".