From Occupy Wall Street to Occupy the Living Room...

As thousands of patriots around the nation get forced out of their occupations – they’re setting up camp on the lawns of homes on the verge of foreclosure, to save the families from getting kicked out too. The coalition of activists spearheading this movement known as “Occupy Homes” have been successful in many cases. In California – Fannie Mae was forced to hold off on an eviction when patriots held a vigil outside the home.

In Minnesota – a woman is crediting the Occupy Homes movement for buying her critical time to move out before her home was foreclosed on. And in New York – the movement occupied a boiler room in an apartment building until the landlord agreed to provide adequate heating to the tenants living inside.

From protecting foreclosure victims – to convincing people to move their money out of big banks and into small credit unions – to changing the dialogue in the media from the debt crisis to the jobs crisis – to getting even members of the Republican Party to talk about wealth inequality – the success of the Occupy movements so far have been substantial.

Comments

chris_holte@yahoo.com's picture
chris_holte@yah... 10 years 46 weeks ago
#1

Thom, you defended Sam Adams, the mayor of Portland and his decision to force out the occupy protesters there on the grounds that he was a progressive and a friend. I think that was wrong. Just because a person is a friend and a progressive doesn't mean that his decisions are perfect. As an executive he's subject to influence and pressure from his executives, from local powers, and from his own role as mayor representing the "powers that be." By endorsing his behavior the other day you also gave him license to use his police to clear the area and step on their first amendment rights. AS A FRIEND you should use your bully pulpit to pressure him to do the right thing and turn around the violent way that the police there have been responding to the protesters, and you should have roundly CONDEMNED his activities instead of giving him license. This tendancy to rally around and provide an omerta for evil leaders on the grounds that they are "our evil leaders" hasn't just been a feature of governments like the USA has also been a feature of the left, who often supported thugs like Castro, Chavez and Qaddafi because of their benign face on issues that we like. Someday you should bring the french writer Bernard Levi on your show.

chris_holte@yahoo.com's picture
chris_holte@yah... 10 years 46 weeks ago
#2
louisehartmann's picture
louisehartmann 10 years 46 weeks ago
#3

No Chris - he did not defend Sam Adams forcing out the protesters.

DRichards's picture
DRichards 10 years 46 weeks ago
#4

Quiet “Background” Musician for Summit Between Obama and Other World Leaders Instead Tells Them (For 45 Minutes): “Your Thievery Has Left the People Numb … We Occupy [Until] You Do the Bidding of the Many, Not the Few”Posted on November 14, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog

Popular Hawaiian musician Makana was invited to sing for President Obama, Chinese leader Hu Jintao of China, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, and more than a dozen other heads of state as part of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation gala in Hawaii.

Makana was only supposed to provide quiet Hawaiian background music.

Instead, he played – for 45 minutes straight – the “Occupy” song he had just written – “We Are the Many” – forcefully telling the 1% to their face that the 99% will keep protesting and occupying until we win:

Your thievery has left the people numb … We occupy the streets. We occupy the cause. We occupy the offices of you, ’til you do the bidding of the many, not the few.

Please watch “We Are the Many”:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/

Raypc800 10 years 46 weeks ago
#5

They cannot stop the numerous Occupy movements! All should use social media outlets via #OCCUPYTHEVOTE on twitter. We must fight for true change our true power is in our numbers! Push politicians for change. List your ideas on twitter, use your Facebook accounts to support OCCUPYTHEVOTE! Never give up! They may move you from a place but they cannot kill an idea!

oneworldatpeace's picture
oneworldatpeace 10 years 46 weeks ago
#6

Hey DRichard! As Thom says GOOD ON YOU! I just heard the song on the show!And he's right, So's Ravi Bhatra, btw!

DRichards's picture
DRichards 10 years 46 weeks ago
#7

Loise, Would it be possible to have Makana on the show to describe his experiance and any reaction from the folks at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation regarding his 45 minute version of his song "We Are the Many"?

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#8

Quote by Raypc800:

"They cannot stop the numerous Occupy movements! All should use social media outlets via #OCCUPYTHEVOTE on twitter. We must fight for true change our true power is in our numbers! Push politicians for change. List your ideas on twitter, use your Facebook accounts to support OCCUPYTHEVOTE! Never give up! They may move you from a place but they cannot kill an idea!"

You have very good intentions, Raypc800, and the Power of the People in numbers lends a great boost to overcoming the system now in place. But you must remember that People Power without their Military will not accomplish moving the 1% and their worker eyes out of power, which needs to be the next move done. If this is not accomplished then the 1% will use the Military of these United States of America against the Peoples, along with their militarized police, (and the only ones who can stop militarized police are the U.S. Military) otherwise you, the People of these United States of America, will end up with nothing more than a glorified Ruby Ridge, or a Waco Texas.

Secondly, pushing politicians for change, politicians whom are controlled by the 1% will get you nowhere. The most they will or can do will be to throw you, the Peoples, of these United States of America, crumbs from your own tables, crumbs which the 1% allow them to throw, whilst the politicians take the loaves and give them in a continuous motion to Israel. Israel gains what you lose.

You need the workers of the 1% out of office, and the system thrown completely out and replaced with a system which gives the peoples back their full loaves of bread, and nothing less. - Cygnus1

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#9

Thom and Louise, this is great news! Not only are the Peoples of these United States of America adding their OCCUPYING to different places each day, and in diverse ways, but they are using their intelligence in doing so! This is indeed wonderful news, and the Peoples will continue in advancing forward, into other areas utilizing other plans for themselves in doing so. - Cygnus1

Chris Holte@yah.., You seem to tout the old Pentagon and White House lies concerning other leaders who refused, and continue in refusing, to be buckled under by the heavy hand of this foreign-backed government sitting at present time in the White House in D.C. Why do so many people follow like sheep in criticizing these leaders when they know full well that the White House and Pentagon are among the greatest storytellers and liars in the entire world? Why is this? Because many people are so brainwashed by the media of the 1% and the foreign backed government in D.C., and the Pentagon, that they can no longer think for themselves. These brainwashed individuals then run into dissidents of these countries such as Libya, Cuba, and Venezuela, and formerly Iraq, to mention just a few, whom wish to be sitting in the power base over the peoples of the land, raking the nation's money into their own accounts, usually giving the people little to no chance for a decent living whatsoever. Why is this? Because such dissidents have no leadership qualities, no wisdom and no intelligence.

Let us look for a moment, together, shall we, at President Castro.

Here is another leader who refused to accept American Imperialism: President Fidel Castro of Cuba. So he conducted a revolution against U.S. imperialism, for he had a heart for the welfare of ALL of his people, and what happened to his country? A NEARLY UNIVERSAL ECONOMIC BOYCOTT BY THE WESTERN DEMOCRATIC WORLD, JUST BECAUSE HE HAD A HEART FOR HIS PEOPLE! The fact that he ran his campaign under a communist banner, is neither here nor there, for it in no wise diminishes the nobility of his character. Not one system is better than the other when it comes to systems of this world.

Now let us look at President Chavez of Venezuela. When the Peoples of these United States in the city of New Orleans had to deal with their catastrophy, President Chavez told the foreign-based government of these United States of America to give the Peoples of New Orleans oil and gas from Venezuela's wells in the U.S. for a pence, for the Peoples could rarely afford an even higher price than what they were already forced to pay. But the White House brushed his offer aside, left the People to continue in their suffering without the cheap oil and gas; then FEMA got involved in bringing mobile homes to the peoples, but bringing those homes not close enough for the people to use, instead, parking the mobile homes out of reach. Now you tell me who are the thugs here?

President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela has so far managed to keep the 1% as far away from his doorstep as possible, and would be giving his peoples a lot more, were some of the other South American leaders not buckled under domination by the 1%, invisibly ruling from the nations' chairs.

Now we come to the former President of Libya, Col. Qadaffi. Representatives of the new puppet leadership of that nation sodomized the man with knives and other implements. What does this tell you about the level of ethics and humanity of these people?

Colonel Qadaffi opened his own interest free bank, his water system cost 27 billion dollars (this is converted from the Libyan currency) and NATO smashed the water system with 27,000 bombing raids plus 9700 sorties, so now the peoples of Libya are extremely short of clean drinking water, and short of water period. Now you tell me who are the thugs.

Let us list a few more of this "thug's" accomplishment for his peoples and then compare it with what the White House, Congress, the Senate and all the other arms of the 1% have done and are doing here in these United States, which is anywhere near what Colonel Qadaffi has done for his peoples. There is no government of the peoples left in Libya, there are only your thugs!

First, let us review what President Obama has said concerning Libya and the govenrment of Colonel Qadaffi. Does this sound like a professional statement? It is certainment an inaccurate one, to say the least.

"US President Barack Obama reacts to the death of former Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi, claiming that it has put an end to a long, painful chapter for Libyans that now have a chance to build a "democratic" and "tolerant" nation.

"The report that the evasive Libyan ruler Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has died as a result of the wounds he sustained during a NATO attack has flung the Libyans into a jubilant frenzy while it has provoked mixed reactions from the political observers who may eye the event with reasonable degree of suspicion.

"He (Gaddafi) was also hit in his head," National Transitional Council official Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters. "There was a lot of firing against his group and he died." Press TV - Iran"

Quote from a Libyan (I think you must have missed this. It was posted on an earlier forum)

"Muammar Gaddafi's contribution to the people of Libya:

1. All the newly weds people of Libya used to get about 50,000 dollars from Government to lead a very happy life.

2. Home is the basic right of every citizen of Libya.

3. There was no electricity bill in Libiya. Electricity is free.

4. No interest loan for the people of Libya according to Law. Gaddafi was against interest since interest is forbidden in Islam.

5. Gaddafi has increased the literacy rate from 25% to 83%. Education expenses in Government universities are free in Libya.

6. Medical expenses in Government hospitals was free in Libya.

7. The price of the patrol was 0.14 cents in Libya. Yes we all know Libya has got good petroleum resources. But the price seems to be too low. Isn't it?

8. When Libyan citizen buys a car, Government used to subsidized 50% of the price of the car. 50%? sounds great!

9. A huge bread used to cost only 15 cents in Libya.

10. The GDP per capita of Libya is very high. Over 15,000 us dollars. Purchasing power was very high compare to the GDP.

11. The economy of Libya was improving rapidly. In 2010 it had 10% growth. It has not external debts. It also has the reserves amount of 150+ billion dollars.

12. Unemployment fees were given from the government until the person finds a Job.

13. A Libyan mother used to get 5000 us dollars for giving birth a child.

There were some of the things people of Libya got from the Government of Gaddafi. I hope you have enjoyed reading about these facts, They are all past now. Libyan people are hoping for a better leader. Can they find their true leader? Please do comment and make sure to share the articles to let other know ;)." end quote

Can the White House, Pentagon or the Congress or Senate of these United States of America boast of having done any of these things FOR THE PEOPLES OF THESE UNITED STATES?!

Just look, Chris Holte@yah.., around you. There is nothing but chaos, foreclosures, fraud, slavery of the peoples to the 1%, unemployment skyrocketing, outsourcing of jobs, and on and on the list goes, and do not forget WARS!

Colonel Qadaffi was trying to build a paradise for his people and for all of Africa but the other African leaders who initially stood up for him were too afraid of losing their American backers who also could throw them distinctly off their power base, as they did to undermine Colonel Qadaffi.

In conclusion, we can say that whenever the banking system of the elite have opposition to themselves and stand to lose control over the peoples, and certain Leaderships, who try in cultivating happiness and good living prospects for their Peoples, the hammer comes down utilizing the most terrifying methods, and all these methods have much in common for they come from a common source. Have a nice day. - Cygnus1

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 10 years 46 weeks ago
#10

To me the violence problem seems to be a question of consequences.

Assuming violence WAS necessary: In this case it had to be used consequently and the consequences would be horrible. The imagination, Americans would kill each other with machine guns, tanks &ct. is unthinkable. Of course you wouldn't get a majority of the American people, who were ready to do something crazy like this. The violent fraction of the 99ers overlook the escalation potentials of the executive level. In the last consequence they can never keep up with this and they should know that. I'm afraid these people might form an anarchist terror organisation -- a very small minority, using useless and aimless violence. Groups like this have never been successful and they never will.

Under extreme conditions (as in Nazi Germany) a civil war might be justifiable -- but this is not the case. Because we still have democratic options: All potential voters must be convinced to vote/ All Americans have to watch their interests, instead of blindly trusting 1%ers' lobbyists/ &ct. ....

msamerican's picture
msamerican 10 years 46 weeks ago
#11

Thom, I am a 73 year old female, retired from 25 total years as a government employee, who, by the way, NEVER made more than ANY private sector employee. I was completely behind the Occupy Denver Movement, but they have allowed a person with a criminal background and a record of violence towards the police, to be their 'non-leader' leader. Well, Sunday, it seems this guy and one of his co-horts assaulted two police officers...one with the Colorado State Patrol, the other a Denver Police officer. I have never gone to the site(s) as I am unable to walk, or stand or lie on hard pavement...but I have been with them in my home, online...until this past weekend.

Also, on the first day OccDen was evicted from Veteran's Park, this agitator was seen on video, standing and facing the line of police, and taunting one by holding a piece of meat up to the officer's face and shaking it at him/her. On this same day, this individual was arrested for groping a reporter.

On another occasion this past week, this same individual was trying to approach an officer - I believe this was on the 11th - after the police took over Civic Center Park...this guy joined another idiot, by walking up to an officer and trying to get very close...this officer poked each with their baton...and none too gently, but that is understandble with these two coming at you...

I don't know why Denver has allowed this person to take over control of the entire Denver movement. He is more than happy to incite violence...and it has caused me to turn my back on this movement. I was happy to see this 'older woman', Jeannie Hartley, who appeared on Keith Olbermann, at first...but now SHE is decrying the police and shouting words of police brutality. Now mind you, I have not seen everything...the videos of these marches or standoffs sometimes are pathetically poor quality. Those taken by Global Revolution last Saturday, the 12th of November, were very bad.

I can send you the picture of the individual who has overtaken Occupy Denver, but I won't put it on this open site. It just breaks my heart that they have let this occupation go to hell...I won't be following them as much, and if they break the law, then they deserve to be arrested.

Let me add a very important bit of info here...while I worked the latter part of my life in law enforcement records, I am partial to the legal side of an issue...not that I back the police 100%, but I do know why they are there...however, without any leadership at the Occupy Movements, pure pandemonium will ensue as it has here in Denver.

Also, I do agree with someone else who wrote on here about Makana...the Hawaiian who wrote that brilliant Occupy song...and sang it while President Obama was in Hawaii. This young man is an outstanding singer and song writer ... it would be great to interview him on your show.

Thanks, Tom

MsAmerican! One of the 99%

stonesphear's picture
stonesphear 10 years 46 weeks ago
#12

For the individual It's a matter of anger management and confidence.

For the movement it is a matter of getting it across to the participants just how important that is.

Vandalism dares for the sake of violence, violence thrives on it and caves in on it. There is no end game there save more violence.

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#13

Here is a more detailed account of the rule of Colonel Qadaffi in Libya, balanced and no words of the article changed. - Cygnus1

by Gabie7

The uprising that started in February 2011 with the help of the super power nations of NATO succeeded in ousting and eventually killing Gadaffi, his sons and high-ranking government official of his regime. Today, the world is focused purely on the bad side of the dictator only, no one seems interested in highlighting what exactly Gadaffi did which deserves praise. There is no denying that Gadaffi was a man who did everything including killing his opponents to retain power, but he also had a humane side to his power hungry brains. Here below is why the world must not just dismiss Gadaffi as a heartless dictator that did nothing for his people;

No electric Bill

During his entire rule, there was no electricity bill for the ordinary people of Libya and Gadaffi alone made this a free utility through out the land. I am not aware of any country in the world that shouldered all the electric bills of its citizens. In my country, only last week we were told that bills would go up!

Bank loans were interest free

In The Libya of Gadaffi, Bank loans would never attract any interests. You could borrow millions of dollars from banks but pay over a given time without any interests. Gadaffi abolished interests on loans. Few leaders have this soft spot for people they lead. In my country, interests on loans were increased last month and people who borrowed bank loans a year ago are paying back with new interest rates.

Home Built for every citizen

Every Libyan during Gaddafi’s rule had a home built for them by the state. He vowed never to build a house for his own parents until all Libyans had been given a home by the state. In fact, Gadaffi’s father died while he was living in a tent, not in a house.

$50,000 for every wedded couple and $5,000 for every child born

For every young Libyan who chose to have a wedding to start a family, it was the policy of Gadaffi’s Green Revolution to reward the newly wed couples $50,000/= to buy their first house to settle in as a family. I am not aware that there is any leader in this world who has this kind of generosity. Any married woman who gave birth to a child receives $5,000

Literacy rate from 25% to 83%

Before Gadaffi came to power, literacy rates stood at a paltry 25%, today, Libya’s literacy rate is 83%, some of the highest in Africa and he was able to achieve this by offering the Libyan people, free medical care and free and compulsory education. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, it was a government policy to fund them to go abroad for it. The funds are not just limited to free transport costs, but also included stipend of US$2,300/month for accommodation and car allowance for as long as they are out of the country. What a man Gadaffi was!

Farmers funding

Libyans who want to start farming as a way of income generating activity are promptly and at no cost, given land, a farm house, tractor and other equipment, seeds and livestock to start kick start their projects. These are policies that only very pro-people leaders can implement fro his people.

50% Car Fund Cheap bread and fuel

In Libya, if a citizen wanted to buy a car, the government was under obligation to meet 50% of the market cost and when it comes to fuel, a liter of fuel cost a Libyan citizen just $0.14. No Libyan suffered fuel shortages and unlike some countries like Nigeria where citizens line up for fuel even when Nigeria is a major oil producer. Food prices were at its lowest in Libya during the Gadaffi regime, for example, 40 loaves of bread in would cost $ 0.15!

Zero external Debts and $150 billion National reserves

Libya during Gadaffi was the only country in the world without any external debts. Even America is struggling with debts, both domestically and externally, but Muammar Gadaffi had zero debts. Secondly, Libya during the Gadaffi era had a reserve amounting to $150 billion! We know for a fact that most of these reserves have been frozen.

Man made River

Gadaffi used $27 billion of oil money to create an underground man-made river for his people. This dramatically reduced the water scarcity in major cities. Today, NATO forces have bombed these facilities to rabbles. We hope the NTC measures up or even do better for the Libyan people after all the destructions this war has brought about.

The Unemployed were given monthly salary

In Gadaffi’s Libya, there was no starving to death because of unemployment. If a graduate finished University and had not got a job, he would be paid a full salary of his profession until he/she gets a job. A portion of the oil revenue was routinely credited directly to bank accounts of all Libyan citizens. Gaddaffi, your hands may be soiled in Blood of so many, you may have conducted yourself like a playboy, yet you still need to be honoured for the great feeling for the common man that you had in that flamboyant head of yours! Rest in peace Muammar!" end quote

Now we know why Colonel Qadaffi was murdered. He was doing too much good for the Peoples of Libya, whereas, the 1% wanted a controlled puppet government over the resources of Libya, such as Britain and France wanting all the gas and oil basically for free. Colonel Qadaffi was selling it to them in order to improve the lives of the Peoples of Libya.

I remember when the western media condemned Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from shooting a man standing right in front of him. I believe the man, to my recollection, was Shiite. What the western media did not tell the peoples, was this: The man came to see his President and pulled a gun and pointed it at his President's head. The fast arm of Saddam took the gun and shot him.

Many times a leader must deal with those who would undermine their program of building Paradise for the peoples. President Saddam Hussein opened up his own banks without interest as well, and was on the road to a moneyless system. He gave away market items such as materials to sew clothes, opened large soup kitchens in the palaces, gave the peoples free medical care and free education, and on the list goes.

But the foreign-controlled U.S. military bombed the infrastructure, housing, baby formula stockpile (powered milk) which was brought in from the outside world, and such. But the western media blamed the President Saddam Hussein for the lack of baby formula which he had been giving freely to the Iraqi mothers for their babies, saying that he, President Saddam Hussein, actually loaded the baby formula on boats and shipped them out of Iraq for personal gain. WHAT A LIE! The media must have forgotten that Iraq was sanctioned by a western-controlled blockade.

Every time the President of Iraq ordered bridges to be rebuild or repaired, U.S. forces would bomb them to destruction again. The Turkish government under the thumb of Israel dammed up the Euphrates and Tigres rivers to the north of Iraq, shipped the waters to Israel and left Iraq with almost no water at all. President Saddam gave Jordon free oil and gas, whilst Turkey charged them for water.

In Libya, NATO bombed the underground water supply instillation which supplies the cities with water. So not only do the Libyians run short of water but now all of Africa will not benefit either. Interestingly enough, Israel does the same to the Palestinians controlling 90% of the water, with the Settlers building themselves swimming pools whilst the Palestinians do not have enough to even flush their toilets. See the pattern? Good.

Let us look at ALL the western media has given in its insurmountable lies. The lies of the western media are like Mount Everest, so many lies that it takes a strong mind to climb to the top of them and see the light of day.

When humanity learns to think for themselves completely, researching in known and unknown places, then the truth concerning what really happened to nations in the Middle East and elsewhere, will come to light

The 1% and their worker eyes do not want you, the Peoples, to know these truths. However, because you, the Peoples, of this World, after seeking out the truth which was rewritten by the victors, will not be, next time, so easily deceived. Part of what We, the People, should be continuing in doing for others, is UNFOLDING THEIR LIES.

We should all be concerned with what happens to our brothers and sisters worldwide because we are all a part of the same human family. - Cygnus1

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#14

There never was a time when Iraq had needed to be invaded by the west, nor anybody else! Nevertheless, now the Military are seeing this for themselves. The Military must continue in gathering together to decide what they want to see these United States of America become for themselves and their families and ACT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. - Cygnus1

U.S. NAVY Veteran says GET OUT NOW!

occupymarines.org. Note: We will assist you with regard to your question of the Peoples of Oakland below on the next post. - Cygnus1

Semper Fi: Occupy Marines Bringing Reinforcements To Occupy The Nation #Ows

The gathering of just a few US Marines has become a major organized movement to get Marines, police and all branches of military personnel to Occupy America nationwide"

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#15

I heard that, as the police were chasing out the citizen protestors in Oakland...one said that they should be occupying the spaces around homes (mansions more likely) of the 1%...at least the most egregious of the 1%. So who cares if it is "private" property....they won't even let protestors occupy "public" property. And people are arrested anyway so why not make the 1% really nervous and occupy spaces where the police would really be stretched thin. Then the 1% would have to fight it out amongst themselves who deserves to have the police breaking up the crowds in their driveways or blocking traffic approaching their properties. Some of these 1% have many homes or mansions they can hide at but if we knew where they were and protestors occupied all their houses at the same time then they might eventually "get the message".

mdhess's picture
mdhess 10 years 46 weeks ago
#16

I'm curious about the OWS marchers on their way to D.C. Any update?

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 10 years 46 weeks ago
#17

Nobody's perfect and certainly the entire Occupy movement will not be. In fact just the thought of how a few wealthy and lazy banksters armed with artful financial schemes were and still are allowed to steal retirement funds and destroy the dream of home ownership for so many under paid hard working citizens makes me want to break a few applicable windows. "Violence" is the banksters not going to jail!

A much better idea than breaking windows is occupying a foreclosure, an idea in my opinion even Ghandi would have approved of...... With winter closing in it makes good sense!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#18

I saw the new movie J. Edgar Hoover...which probably should have been called J. Edgar Hoover, A Daffodil Love Story. It was pretty good but the movie tried to put some doubt, early on, as to what peccadilloes old J.Edgar was vexed with.

We have all heard the rumors, of course, but the movie in introducing the subjects..homosexual nuances, the wearing of women's clothes, grandstanding and taking credit for what others had done, rabid anticommunist red baiter, blackmail of powerful politicians were all there and the movie tried to keep you guessing which way they were going to paint it.

There were some scenes that seemed like the movie was trying to steer us away from the more likely reality...but in the end, kind of put it together. The aged Tolson set J. Edgar straight (no pun here) on a few things. They could have been a lot harder on him...after all he was pretty much an opportunist and may have done some pretty rotten things in his play for power. Was Bruno Hauptmann framed in the Lindbergh baby kidnapping? Was J.Edgar rubbing elbows with criminal underworld figures?

Who is going to believe that, as the movie tries to portray, that J.Edgar, in a moment of grief at the death of his mother, that he puts on her dress and necklace and never cross-dressed ever again? Who is going to believe that when Clyde Tolson kisses J. Edgar that J. Edgar tells him not to let it happen again? These were awkward, non-sequitur moments in the movie, that just did not seem in alignment with what we know about J. Edgar, his relationship with Clyde, and how the rest of the movie portrays the relationship....holding hands...etc....J. Edgars mother telling him that she'd rather he were dead than a "daffodil".

In light of our recent history with the 1% scheming to drive the rest of us into unmitigated poverty, I was routing for the anarchists and communists (which is what J. Edgar called them) because I know that the rise of all that violence was not without a root cause that is in alignment with the one we are face with today.

It took "anarchists" and "communists" and just really ticked off people who were dealt a double crossing hand to force the Banksters and Wall Streeters (Railroad barrons, oil magnets, industrialists, bankers, and crooked politicians) of that time period to start thinking in terms of compromise...lest they suffer more fire bombs.

In such an atmosphere there arose very violent gangsters who robbed banks and murdered lots of people...including banksters and politicians who got in the way. The crooked cop was everywhere. Bought off politicians stank up Washington. But eventually, some part of that frightful history settled out to produce a mellow middleclass..thanks mostly to the unions...and to politicians that began to believe that their best interests were served when they served the people who elected them.

But now. we have swung back to a corrupt and crooked political system, crooked cops, and lots of money to buy them all. It is going to take a lot more than electing what you believe to be a President or a Congress that is on your side. None of them are...including Obama. And you can take that to the bank (I mean Credit Union)!

We need to learn from history as to what has worked in the past and what will work now. We no longer have a Soviet Union or "communists" for the ruling class to blame things on but they will undoubtedly use the "terrorist" misnomer repeatedly. But maybe that is what needs to creep into their thick skulls...that if a widespread internal unrest threatens the ability of the ruling elite to continue their criminal lifestyle of pillaging their fellow Americans they may have to relent and atavistically retreat to a safer position.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#19

One thing homeless people, perhaps those who were forced out of their homes by the banks, should do is re-inhabit the hundreds of thousands of vacant buildings....and stay there as long as they can...got to be better than living in your car or under an overpass. If everyone did this..that needed shelter...the Police would be run ragged trying to (re)evict them. Many times the banks don't even know who "owns" what...they can't even produce the originating loan agreements.

Maude's picture
Maude 10 years 46 weeks ago
#20

Thom, you keep saying that we elected Obama and a Democratic Congress then stood back to wait for them to do what we wanted them to do. That is absolutely not true. Obama had a website before he was inaugerated asking us to vote for the one issue we wanted him to deal with as soon as he was in the Oval Office; the winner by a mile was "investigate Bush/Cheney for their crimes." As soon as Obama was in the Oval Office he said that investigating Bush/ Cheney was off the table. We barely had time to catch our breath before he surrounded himself with Goldman Sachs criminals who had caused the economic mess we are in. He said AT&T spying on Americans was okay with him. He bailed out Wall Street and INSISTED CEOs get their huge bonuses. He ignored single payer and the public option and pushed for a health insurance bill written by the health insurance industry He gave no-bid contracts to Halliburton and Blackwater. Meanwhile, me and my fellow environmental activists began fighting the White House almost immediately when he began pandering to the oil and coal industry to the detriment of public health and the environment. None of us stood back and hoped for the best. We immediately were reeling from the abuse we were getting from a supposed Democrat President. We were no longer surprised as he campaigned for right-wing Democrats against Progressives in the Congressional election. Today I read in Vanity Fair that the Murdochs, owners of Fox News, hosted a 2008 fundraiser for Obama. Think he doesn't want to be one of them? Think they didn't want something from him? Think their support won't pay off in a lack of investigation into their crimes by Obama's corporatist Attorney General? Now, today the coup de gras: Obama wants to give $433 million dollars to Big Pharma for a smallpox drug. Hello? There is no smallpox. It does not exist. But Big Pharma could very well bring it back with their drug. When David Axelrod took on a million dollar Big Pharma job about a year ago I expected there to be a payoff for them. And here it is. I expect there will be many more in the future. No, Thom, we did not sit back and hope that Obama would do what he promised during his campaign. He wasted no time in disabusing us of that notion and we have been fighting him ever since. In the next Presidential election we won't even have the opportunity to vote for a Democrat. All we will have are two Republicans; one pathetic loser without a chance of winning and the billionaires choice, a man sneaky enough to convince people he is a Democrat while he destroys everything we stand for.

313girl's picture
313girl 10 years 46 weeks ago
#21

I think one "problem" regarding supposed violence within the Occupy movement is a lack of historical know how. To make the movement successful, it would help if more on the ground understood the methods used in the past and how to handle provacatours in the crowd who would turn the protests violent. I am thinking of the Civil Rights movements, labor movements, womens movements, anti-war movement etc. They all had to deal with both inside agitators and outside forces, such as riot police, as well as an unsympathetic media in many cases. I do however think that for the most part, the protests and occupations have been peaceful and sincerely hope those who have experienced violence, from inside and out, work even harder to insure the movement remains peaceful. I wish nothing but the success of the Occupiers and as a 99%'er, appreciate those on the ground who are doing what many of wish we could, but for whatever reasons, can't.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#22

Good stuff, Cygnus1! I agree with what you said. Actually, I believe that it is kind of a Muslim belief that charging anyone interest on loans are considered usary and against Islam. Totally 180 degrees out from Jewish belief...I believe. I may not agree with some things they do in some Muslim countries but they do have some very different rules. And who are we to say they are wrong? It is their culture...but unfortunately, there are those in non-Muslim countries...like the west...that cannot seem to stand that they do things differently. So, the west tries to get them to conform to our ideas, beliefs, and laws. It would make it easier for us to exploit them, for one thing...get and control their oil and natural resources.

But such countries like Saudi Arabia are undergoing a lot of "westernization", as I am sure other Muslim countries are as well, partly because of the influences of western workers. I ran across this "wikileaks" story about Saudi Arabia and it brought back memories of when I was there in the early 80s. Come to think of it...I believe that I read somewhere that it was a wikileaks story about corruption or something in Qadaffi's Libya that helped start the "revolution".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/07/wikileaks-cables-saudi-princ...

This story told about how, contrary to Saudi tradition and law, the young and affluent Saudis have held very big parties where they had lots of booze called saddiqi and prostitutes.

I remember the local expatriate brew called "sadiqi" (in Arabic means: my friend). It was highly illegal and anyone caught would be harshly dealt with...but the foreign workers (US, British and many other nationalities) would have stills in their closets...and make saddiqi (moonshine). They would also take the bottled grape juice and ferment it into wine. I never attended one of these large parties (only a small Christmas party where they served Sadiqi). I had heard rumors of the more well to do and influential Princes importing their own liquor cabinets.

So, there are the wealthy and privileged who want all the titillating things that the western countries have, and the poorer subjected classes...the ones who have been propagandized in their conservative religions and even held oppressed by the hypocrite ruling classes by using that religion as a tool of oppression...while breaking all the rules themselves. And eventually, the masses rebel..especially if they get a lot of help from those in the west who have a vested interest in overthrowing their puppets who are themselves getting a little too uppity.

The CIA has long been in that business of overthrowing governments of dictators that no longer do our bidding...or of duly elected Presidents that will not be a US puppet. And, of course, the CIA has earned a very disreputable name over the years for this...so if they can, like the military...farm out the dirty deeds to others that would possibly both avoid prosecution and/or "take the heat" one day...if they are ever discovered...then the military or government can escape scrutiny through plausible deniability.

Blackwater, (now called Xe), can get away with atrocities and keep the military from soiling their "good name?". And the CIA can use such groups as Peter Ackerman's group, International Center On Non-Violent Conflict, to train and foment dissention from within the country we want to overthrow. Did this happen in Arab Spring?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#24

The only thing problematic about "keeping it peaceful" is that the purpose of "keeping it peaceful" is to win the hearts and minds of the majority of the people who will turn their actions into votes. Problem is that our system is so corrupt that voting no longer matters...nor does it work in the interest of the people. And besides, the majority of the people are already on the side of the protesters. What has worked in the past is when the masses begin to hit back. This scares the bejesus out of the ruling elite and convinces them that if they don't want howling angry mobs lopping off their heads one day they had better stop being such selfish bullies themselves.

Jesus, Gandhi, and MLK may have made their marks in history once (if we can believe in the current popular myths about these characters...after all, much of what we have been taught about a lot of things have been manipulated by those who control the presses and other media.)...but what may have been downplayed is how important it was to have violent rebellion as a threat to organized selfishness and corruption.

We may eulogize and praise MLK for being a man of peace, because that is how the ruling elite wants everyone to act...peaceful...not making any really big waves or problems for the ruling elite. That's how the Romans wanted to keep people from seriously challenging the Roman Empire...make their Savior a man of peace..like a lamb...so everyone can feel Christ-like by turning their other cheek...while the bankster ruling elite laugh all the way to their off-shore accounts.

We don't have a national day of celebrating Malcom-X but I think that he was highly instrumental in scaring the bejesus out of the bully boys. And that is why we don't have a Malcom-X holiday...perhaps. The ruling elite control the presses and the media and have painted the psyche of how we the masses must conduct ourselves...so long as it doesn't seriously challenge the status quo.

Now that the Communist system has fallen, and Russia was drastically further weakened by its failed experiment in capitalism run by Goldman Sachs(also behind the Greek problems today), there is no competing ideology to challenge capitalism. The American capitalists were able to paint Emma Goldman, and all the others, into radical communist agitators and many "lambs" believed them and feared them even though the same greedy capitalists that screwed them was the impetus behind such "radicals".

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#25

Palindromedary, everything you have said about Saudi Arabia is correct. Keep in mind that as the now King of Saudi Arabia said to me one day, "I am not bulletproof," in relation to a question why the American military are still sitting on Saudi Land. He is a good King and hates with a passion the atrocities against Palestine. Yet there is the situation in Bahrain, and the Saudi Government is worried about a Shiite uprising in Saudi Arabia, formented by the Shiites in both Bahrain as well as in Yemen. Watch the Ayatollah of Iran. It is unseeming that the President of Iran should befriend the King of Saudi Arabia while the Ayatollah who has the final word should work toward the opposite. Saudi Arabia is really caught there between a rock and a hard place, yet what you say is definately true.

The Arab spring has for the most part begun in earnest as a revolution mirrored after President Gamel Abdel Nasser, of Egypt. This is where the revolution and its beginnings actually kicked off. It took quite a while but eventually it took flight and soured. The revolutionary idea for the Arab spring did not start in Tunesia.

The Arab spring revolution of Egypt and the Middle East had nothing whatsoever to do with the uprising in Libya. Those people are plain thugs who wish nothing more than a power base for their tribal regions. Caring about the Peoples of Libya is really none of their concern.

After the Arab revolution began marching in earnest, infiltrators began influencing the peoples with promises of power and money, if only they would sell out to the west, and at the same time these foreign infiltrators such as Xe (Peter Ackerman's group, International Center On Non-Violent Conflict, I am not familiar with) mingle in with the protesters, shooting them. These Xe are dressed in the uniforms of the police and military of whichever nation they are in and the protesters do not know the difference so they blame their own government and military, When things get out of hand then the Military kicks in trying to calm things down, but the infiltrators become even more aggressive and that is when all hell breaks loose.

Since, His Excellency Amre Moussa, is no longer Secretary General of the Arab League, and gave up his chair, so to speak, the Arab League placing Nabil Elaraby in his place, I can tell you that the Arab League which is little more than a talk shop anyway, has been severely compromised by the west. Rather it has allowed itself to be compromised and has turned into a League of Hypocrites.

His Excellency, Amre Moussa is one of the finest men I have ever known to benefit the Arab world in honesty, integrety and fairness, albeit he really had no power.

As for usury, it does not exist upon other higher developed worlds which retain the right of Paradise for themselves, and for as long as people continue in breaking this universal law and principle, they continue in bringing chaos upon their heads and the heads of their nations. - Cygnus1

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#26

Palindromedary, I know what you are saying about "peaceful protests." Bear in mind though, that strategy is at play. The elite or 1% and their worker eyes will not be laughing, but trembling when the Military and Police force (if they are wise) take the side of the peoples, and protect the people against their brutality and calculated coldness. Then the Military and Police will freely arrest the 1% and their worker eyes, sending them off to the concentration camps which they built for the people they so despise. We try to forment this revolution in such a way as little bloodshed encapsulates the people making their suffering even greater. But should this not come to pass in time, we also know what next to do, and having a workable and sensible strategy is definately half the battle. - Cygnus1

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#27

To the Oakland Police Department who wrote this open letter to the residents of the City of Oakland:

Quote

OccupyOMC Extends Gratitude For The Honorable Police Officers Speaking Up For What Is Right. We Support The Police Officers Ensuring The Continued Protection Of American Citizens. Semper Fi Oakland Police Officer’s Association, We Support You. Please Review The Following:

An Open Letter to the Citizens of Oakland from the Oakland Police Officers’ Association

1 November 2011 – Oakland, Ca.

We represent the 645 police officers who work hard every day to protect the citizens of Oakland. We, too, are the 99% fighting for better working conditions, fair treatment and the ability to provide a living for our children and families. We are severely understaffed with many City beats remaining unprotected by police during the day and evening hours.

As your police officers, we are confused.

On Tuesday, October 25th, we were ordered by Mayor Quan to clear out the encampments at Frank Ogawa Plaza and to keep protesters out of the Plaza. We performed the job that the Mayor’s Administration asked us to do, being fully aware that past protests in Oakland have resulted in rioting, violence and destruction of property.

Then, on Wednesday, October 26th, the Mayor allowed protesters back in – to camp out at the very place they were evacuated from the day before.

To add to the confusion, the Administration issued a memo on Friday, October 28th to all City workers in support of the “Stop Work” strike scheduled for Wednesday, giving all employees, except for police officers, permission to take the day off.

That’s hundreds of City workers encouraged to take off work to participate in the protest against “the establishment.” But aren’t the Mayor and her Administration part of the establishment they are paying City employees to protest? Is it the City’s intention to have City employees on both sides of a skirmish line?

It is all very confusing to us.

Meanwhile, a message has been sent to all police officers: Everyone, including those who have the day off, must show up for work on Wednesday. This is also being paid for by Oakland taxpayers. Last week’s events alone cost Oakland taxpayers over $1 million.

The Mayor and her Administration are beefing up police presence for Wednesday’s work strike they are encouraging and even “staffing,” spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars for additional police presence – at a time when the Mayor is also asking Oakland residents to vote on an $80 parcel tax to bail out the City’s failing finances.

All of these mixed messages are confusing.

We love Oakland and just want to do our jobs to protect Oakland residents. We respectfully ask the citizens of Oakland to join us in demanding that our City officials, including Mayor Quan, make sound decisions and take responsibility for these decisions. Oakland is struggling – we need real leaders NOW who will step up and lead – not send mixed messages. Thank you for listening.

http://www.opoa.org/uncategorized/an-open-letter-to-the-citizens-of-oakland-from-the-oakland-police-officers%E2%80%99-association/

We Support You America, Keep Pushing Forward

OccupyOMC

Semper Occupare " end quote

Thank you for your letter to the Peoples of Oakland. This letter, will in time become contemporary throughout these United States of America. We serve you, as you serve the People.

1. Let the attitude of all law enforcement members, assigned to protesters, be one of sympathy and cooperation with the goals and aspirations of the peoples who are hardshipping themselves by marching and camping-out for just the purpose of sending a message of their grievances and discontent to the foreign backed government sitting illegally in Washington, D.C. and their representatives, who have lorded it over these, the peoples, with degradation to the near-destruction of the livelihoods of the majority. This sympathy for the peoples will prevent the officers from clubbing, arresting, or tear-gassing any protester who behaves in an orderly, disciplined manner.

2. The law enforcement officers should verbally and by other means announce to the people, that they have been sent TO PROTECT THEM on the condition that the protesters will not become unruly towards the officers, or set vehicles on fire, or smash store front windows, or throw molotov cocktails at them, or otherwise riot in a mob-like fashion. There needs to be a trust established between the protesters and the uniformed officers, where both recognize each other as FRIENDS!

3. Officers are trained to obey orders coming from their superiors. They are also trained to enforce laws and regulations. In addition to that, they must now learn to fully understand the RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLES IN DEMONSTRATING AS IS GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND FOR THE PEOPLES TO MAKE THEIR COMPLAINTS KNOWN IN PUBLIC PLACES! Those rights must be understood as BASIC belonging to the peoples, and that there CANNOT BE ANY REGULATION ISSUED BY THE MAYOR NOR ANY OF THE MAYOR'S OFFICIALS OVERRIDING THOSE BASIC RIGHTS.

When all officers can discern the difference here, then, both protesters as well as "officers upholding the law" will understand where the rights and limits for both parties lie. Should instructions from their own superiors be infringing upon those elements of mutual understanding be given to the officers, THE LATTER THEN MUST LET THEIR SUPERIORS KNOW IN UNEQUIVOCAL TERMS, THAT SUCH ORDERS WILL NOT BE OBEYED! Where all police forces abide by these basic rules of understanding, no line of authority will be able to interfere with the police's basic function of protecting the people.

4. Having established consensus between the protesters and the police in how to proceed from here on out, we advise the police authorities, that for the protection of the people's sake, the Peoples own Military of these United States of America should do the same, and that a communication line between the police and the military be established nation-wide. That will guarantee, that at no time, and for the duration of such public expression of discontent, the Military will interfere at the expense of objectives the 99% are raising, but rather will continue in protecting these, the PEOPLES OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

5. With the Military on side of the people and firmly established, a solid front will have been formed to assure that "Paradise" can be propelled within credible reach of these peoples of these United States of America, and hopefully, eventually, Worldwide.

When all is in place and a "community effort" of the entire United States of America has stepped up to the plate and marching to the same tune, then the next step will be done and the system finally changed and brought to a peaceful conclusion WITHOUT FURTHER BLOODSHED such as happened to Scott Olson.

And most of all, Oakland Police, never let your superiors, no matter how high up the ladder they are, to take away your humanity as the U.S. foreign controlled Military does to their new recruits in order to prepare them to do to others that which they would normally never think to do to any man, woman, nor child, given their own conscience at work.

And remember, you have a force to join with and that is the Occupying Military. You, the Police, the Peoples of the Occupation and the Occupying Military. You are, therefore, well on your way. We are with you all. Good day. - Cygnus1

Extenuating Circumstances:

Remember, the rights of the Peoples of these United States of America override the laws of the criminal 1% who take the economics of a Nation to be their own property. If the peoples of the land occupy places where the 1% and their worker eyes live, this is to be only seen as the peoples wanting to place citizen's arrest upon these individuals who have broken every law in the land of these United States of America. These arrested people (1% and their worker eyes) will not be taken before ordinary courts with their high priced bought out lawyers because no judge will convict them. The 1% and their worker eyes will be removed at a later date to the concentration camps where they will then be brought before a council who will see their crimes in light of Universal Law and Principle. The elite keep others in prison without trial, so they can then wait for theirs under the system which belong to the Peoples of these United States of America - the system of Paradise. The elite and their worker eyes DENY OTHERS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, SO THEY FOR A SHORT SPACE OF TIME WILL BE DENIED THEIRS. The 1% and their worker eyes have tried the PEOPLES under their system of so-called Justice, so now We, THE PEOPLE, will try them under OURS! The tables will have turned.

The bankers right of access to foreclose the houses of the Peoples of these United States of America need to be barred because it is against the Constitution of the United States, the Principle of true law of the Universe, to use a money trick to rip the Peoples security away from them, leaving the Peoples homeless due to a criminal 1% and their wickedness and greed! Because it is AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION the POLICE do not need to serve the whims of the bankers nor their corrupt Mayors nor any other of their worker eyes who leave the Peoples of the Land, penniless and destitute out in the cold IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER OR IN THE HEAT OF THE SUMMER! - Cygnus1

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#28

Cygnus1: Well, if what you say is a likely scenario then that would be great. I do not advocate outright violence but I am just pointing out that change has never really ever happened without it. It starts peaceful, perhaps, and it may bug some higher up on the ladder but will never really reach the actual ruling elite. Of course, just the entry of the military into the equation shows a force of violence...or potential violence...if the ruling elite does not change their ways.

Do you think that the people of Libya would be rid of Gadafi, or Egypt of Mubarak were it not for a show of violence? Whether Gadafi or Mubarak were good or bad for the people it still took violence to make change (good or bad).

Yes, the violence comes, initially, as in when the governments try to suppress the demonstrations.....like when our cops crack heads and sprays tear gas into the faces of demonstrators. If this gets into the media, it creates a sense of police brutality and may win over minds who might decide to vote differently...or not at all...or they may join in the demonstrations. But what have the ruling elite lost? Their lowly peons (the cops) are doing all the grunt work and will, perhaps one day, get taken to task for what they have done. But nothing will change. The same old bought off lying politicians will still be doing their trickery for their bosses and the public may tire out and accept their miserable plight.

I don't think Americans have the stomach, anymore anyway, for much violence. Perhaps they are not yet in such dire straights (as many were in the later 1800s and early 1900s that led to violent actions) that they are desperate enough to act out of desperation. But that could very well change as our condition worsens..when people start needlessly losing loved ones from lack of medical attention..or having to freeze without shelter...or having no food to eat...as it surely will...unless things are done to alleviate the problem.

Under the existing corrupt exploitative and heartless system we cannot but get far worse off than we are now. Such a heartless and greedy system is what led to the uprisings and violence of anarchists in our history. No rich man really cared until he was afraid for his well being or that of his family. At first, they used all the muscle they had in propaganda...calling them anarchists, communists, bolsheviks, and any other name they could think of.

As the movie J. Edgar showed...that the people were so enamored of the infamous criminals like Bugsy Segal and John Dillenger that they cheered for them in the movies and booed law enforcement. J Edgar used Hollywood and the threat of the anti-communist witch hunt paranoia to influence actors and producers to make movies as propaganda to turn that around.

They put little G-man badges in boxes of Post Toasties and used all manner of propaganda on impressionable young minds. Eventually, however, there was little difference between the good guys and the bad guys (as government colluded and conspired with underworld figures) in reality but in the movies the illusion played on. We live under such illusions today...rather, perhaps, not so much anymore...many people are waking up and seeing how things really are. I think that organized crime just got so big that it took over the country.

cygnus1's picture
cygnus1 10 years 46 weeks ago
#29

Palindromedary, we have made a few revisions on the posting to the Oakland police. It may be a good idea if you were to reread it. - Cygnus1

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#30

That letter from the Oakland Police Officers Association to the Citizens of Oakland sounds to me like the Police would be just happy as pig in sh!t if they could butt heads with the blessing of Mayor Quan (who would take the heat and blame off of the police Captains) and are disappointed that she is being so irresolute and too much like a quavering and undecided politician. I can understand the dilemma of the Police as they have no solid direction in which to pursue... due to a quaking politician caught between the will of the majority of the people and the minority of her more wealthy puppet masters...Oakland's ruling elite. The cops are caught in the middle. It's tough being cop, huh? Well, at least THEY have jobs..for now..until the mayor decides to lay them off. When they've squeezed the last bleeding nickel out of the 99% in taxes they will still have a budget deficit and an inability to pay their police and the 1% will still not want to pay their fair share of the taxes.

The heavily repeated phrase of the Nazis during the Nuremburg Trials was that "I was just following orders". And we high mindedly responded with something like "Just following orders is no excuse for committing criminal actions". No lowly peon can get away with that in any court of law. But I hear that phrase from time to time coming from powerful men who should know better...but they seem to be able to use it effectively. Of course, if you have a lawyer like John Yoo and a stacked Supreme Court you can order underlings to commit crimes and they can get away with saying they were just following orders. US soldiers can commit wholesale murder of civilians and claim they were just following orders. So if Mayor Quan orders the police to crack heads.....the police will say they were just following orders. But these people...always never commit themselves and seek plausible deniability.

Pulladigm's picture
Pulladigm 10 years 46 weeks ago
#31

Back in pre revolution ary times there was an 'occupy' renters strike in the Hudson Valley of New York Colony.. A Dutchman by the name of Rensaleer Had a land grant from the Dutch crown that covered what is today Rockland, Orange, Ulster, Putnamand Dutchess counties. He had a vision so he rented land to farmers who wanted to settle that wilderness. Only he never colected the rent. That went on for about 40 some odd years.

When he died his family discovered there was all these unpaid rents. They tried to collect back rent. . From the original renters and from people who had inherited their farms from their fathers. They went to the local Doctor, an educated man, John Boughton. He organized a renters strike.

When the sherrif was sent out with an eviction order. he was greeted with a small army of armed farmers. The sherriff went out with armed deputies and was met with a larger force of armed men.

Ultimately the farmers prevailed. They got title to their farms and the state grew.

~;^}>

If you miss the way it used to be- then tax a millionaire, support a union, and buy American.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 10 years 46 weeks ago
#32

Great success story, Pulladigm...thanks...!! Violence...or at least the threat of violence works! And overwhelming numbers are a potential violence that would overwhelm any smaller force of violence. Most of it is bluff anyway.

Tom Joad's picture
Tom Joad 10 years 44 weeks ago
#33

You can not blame a movement which anyone can freely join for the actions of individuals. Msamerican, the group in this case has no control over what an individual protester may do. And though the occupy movement has tried to instill a discipline of nonviolence, it has no way of enforcing this, or controlling who takes part in the movement. It's not like you apply for membership. You say the movement needs leaders, but who decides who is the 'boss' in a movement which encourages everyone to take part?

Also, the things you have listed do not seem particularly violent, especially in light of the kind of violence and provocation on the part of the police that the protesters have had to endure. All people have their breaking point, and I am surprised that there has not been any real violence on the part of the protesters. If I had rubber bullets shot at me, was pepper sprayed, and beaten by billy clubs, I would certainly not have the discipline they have shown. So the claims that it is the protesters who are violent seem ironic to me, and either ill-thought or dishonest.

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