Why do Republicans let sick Americans die just to avoid a legislative victory for President Obama?

The Republican Party claims to represent religious America. But when it comes to healthcare – the two couldn’t be farther apart. As the Supreme Court gets ready to hear arguments on Obamacare – a broad coalition of religious groups in America filed a friend-of-the-court brief with the high court in support of Obamacare.

From Methodists to Presbyterians to Catholics – several different denominations are represented in the brief – putting them at odds with nearly every single Republican in Congress and on the campaign trail who have vowed to repeal the President’ health reform law. Considering that the bible calls for the weak and needy to be rescued – and the Pope recently declared healthcare was a “inalienable right” – it’s no surprise that religious organizations are lining up in favor of Obamacare.
What is surprising - and tragic - is that Republicans would rather let sick Americans die than give President Obama a legislative victory.


stecoop01's picture
stecoop01 11 years 5 weeks ago

Republicans have always been racist; this just proves it. They are putting their racism before their religion.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

The GOP is bought by Billionaires, which obviously has been organized by the Koch Brothers. The old GOP is not existing anymore. If they talk about their old Christian values, this doesn't change the fact, that it's mainly the Koch Brother's ideas that coin this party and not those of Jesus. They worship the golden calf, that's all.

YouTube--Young Turks: Koch Brothers Caught On Tape


P.S.: The origin of the word "CAPITAL" is to look up in Latin dictionaries -- it basically comes from the Latin vocabulary CAPUT. I can look in dictionaries of the 16th, 17th and early 18th century too, which is my special field. Furthermore vocabularies about financial management have very much been coined in the late medieval North Italy, where modern banking started. The complete expression during the early modern age was capital sum (in old German "Haubt=Summa"), the main sum of money to be invested. Ergo, "capital" is a short form of "capital sum". I can quote a few parts from old dictionaries if this should help....

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 5 weeks ago

Thanks for the link...

Koch Brothers Caught On Tape-Obama & Osama Compared.
And here is the Brad Blog article on the Colorado Billionaire Seminar:
'Inside the Koch Brothers 2011 Summer Seminar': Part 1 of My 2-Part Exclusive at MOTHER JONES
[Now UPDATED with comment from the Kochs, finally, as given to ABC News & more...]


And for the Koch Brothers' Million Dollar Donor Club list...

Meet the Bundlers:

"Bundlers, well-connected people who encourage their networks of friends and associates to donate to a particular candidate, gather those contributions and deliver them to the campaign. In return, they are often rewarded with access, influence, or even posts within the administration."

"Together, 444 elites are directing at least $74,200,000 for Obama's re-election efforts -- money that has gone into the coffers of his campaign as well as the Democratic National Committee.. "

"On the Republican side...well, we really don't know. To date, no Republican presidential hopefuls have released the identities of their bundlers beyond the names of those who are lobbyists, which is required by federal law."

"Bundlers play a crucial fundraising role for campaigns: at least $9 out of every $25 raised by the DNC and the Obama campaign from April through the end of 2011 came from these elite fundraisers. During that time period, Obama's bundlers raised at least $74.2 million."


historywriter's picture
historywriter 11 years 5 weeks ago

Of course they would let sick people die if it suits their purpose. They are already doing it. A few more bodies won't bother them.Their overriding goal is to keep all their goodies and power for themselves and to defeat Obama.

Elioflight's picture
Elioflight 11 years 5 weeks ago

the Pope recently declared healthcare was a “inalienable right"

That is unless you're a woman.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 5 weeks ago

So what is Obamacare but a blatant giveaway to the HealthScare insurance companies and a government enforcement strong arm in ensuring that people pay the price set by the Insurance Companies?

If they had only included an optional government insurance along with the private ones...we would have had an "option" and the private insurance companies would have had some real competition and incentive to keep their prices low. As it is they can set any price they want and we will be forced to pay. The insurance companies may not drop people for preconditions but they can sure raise their prices whenever they want...forcing people who can't afford it into an early grave brought on by extreme poverty and stress through having to pay the prices set by the insurance companies.

It is all a criminal scam and the government is part of it because the government is comprised of bought off politicians.

Yes, I know that part of the plan is ostensibly for the government to assist those too poor to buy the insurance themselves but if you have any savings in the bank, or any assets, they will rob you of what you have left in order to comply and then, maybe, you will have government assisted insurance and by then they will have come up with some brilliant "final solution"...Soylent Green most likely.

I know some older people who had saved up a little over their working lifetimes who had many serious life-threatening diseases and in order for them to get assistance through the California Medi-Cal had to deplete their bank account in order to meet the low-income standard. They were not rich to begin with and now must suffer the degradation of poverty just so they can be covered under the Medi-Cal plan. I suspect the Obamacare will be much the same. They will drive us all into poverty by soaking us with exorbitant insurance bills until we are so poor that the government will help out...yeah, right! Insurance and Credit are the two biggest scamsters we have to defeat...the F and the I in F.I.R.E. economy. The Real Estate has already gone bust..

And speaking of Kenosha....and my extreme hatred of insurance Scamsters (the ones that sell it)...I thought the movie "Thin Ice" was very good..(if you liked "Fargo" you will like this one)...I think of most Insurance people as like the one in this movie. It has a great surprise ending. ..ssshhh!

TruthAddict's picture
TruthAddict 11 years 5 weeks ago

Randy Rhodes has a joke that Republicans love the fetus but hate the baby. It seems that by demanding that the EPA lift its regulations on Mercury from power plants that Republicans value corporate profits over known birth defects on children. I believe their mantra is increase corporate profits at all costs.

In the case of disease treatment (mistakenly called healthcare in this country), the more pollution, the more disease, and more profits for the treatment industry.

Corporate profits abound when we choose dirty energy. Is there any wonder why the fossil fuel industry gets an order of magnitude more subsidies than clean energy? It’s all part of the big picture that Thom speaks about.

bobbler's picture
bobbler 11 years 5 weeks ago

This proves REP's do exactly what corporate money tells them to do.. They clam to be the religious party, but go against the tide favoring corporate money over their religious base.. But we already know they are hippocrites..

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 5 weeks ago

Keiser Report

Britain has cctv cameras everywhere...on streets...in shops...and now they have something called "FaceWatch" where they monitor everything and everybody all the time. Looks like the TV Show "Person of Interest" is not so far fetched...especially in Britain. If, for example, a woman in a shop claims that she was robbed, she can get on the internet and see a video of herself when she was in the shop to see who else might have been in the shop while she was robbed. Sounds like a neat idea, huh? But I suspect it could be problematic from the privacy standpoint..especially for jealous husbands or wives or nosey neighbors..or even stalkers. It may help prevent people, on the lower level of crime, think twice about doing it. But what about the real problem...banksters stealing bigtime...what is to keep them from ripping people off? Ken Livingston, a British Socialist Politician says..."We need to hang a banker a week until they get the message that they are not going to get away with it anymore".


And now I see on the local bay area news that a local town is getting some military grade high def (35Mpixels) with IR cameras for their downtown area. One local, entering a store, smugly said "Good! It will keep out the Riff Raff!"

arky12's picture
arky12 11 years 5 weeks ago

The Court is now faced with a recent case from Montana, about that state’s century-old Corrupt Practices Act, which bars corporate spending on campaigns there. The Montana Supreme Court recently upheld the law, with our support. (Free Speech For People led the filing of a friend-of-the-court brief in favor of this decision.) On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court put a stay on that state court ruling, allowing corporate money to flow unabated in Montana this year.

But Justices Ginsburg and Breyer made an extraordinary statement along with that stay, essentially calling on their fellow Justices to treat the Montana case as their opportunity to re-consider Citizens United:

“Montana’s experience, and experience elsewhere since this Court’s decision in Citizens United... make it exceedingly difficult to maintain that independent expenditures by corporations "do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption." ... A petition for certiorari will give the Court an opportunity to consider whether, in light of the huge sums currently deployed to buy candidates’ allegiance, Citizens United should continue to hold sway.”

The upshot is that there’s suddenly a real chance that the Supreme Court could revisit Citizens United. With your help, we’ll do everything we can to make the most of this opportunity.

Dare we hope?

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 11 years 5 weeks ago

If republicans claim to represent religious America...... then letting sick Americans die in order to remove one man from political office is how they, the republicans...... represent religious America. Therefore if religious America votes for these avaricious little monkeys in the fall, it's an American religious tragedy as well.

delster's picture
delster 11 years 5 weeks ago

I am a Catholic and a Liberal. I am not so naive to swallow everything that is dished out for me to consume and I am completely capable of making my own decisions and accepting consequences of my decisions. I recently underwent open heart surgery for a triple bypass that I could not wait for. I was ready for the big one without much time to spare. I am self employed and have no health insurance. State law requires me to have car insurance, and my home lender requires me to have home owners insurance. I cannot afford health insurance. The priorities in this nation are definitely

slanted tward the wealthy. We need universal healthcare coverage in the worst way. It not even a political issue any more it is a moral conviction.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

The thing that is wrong about liberalism and socialism is that it champions wealth confiscation from companies and wealthy people and then gives it to the government who immediately spend it into oblivion.

I would rather get cheated by a corporation because I can choose not to deal with them. But if the government is made all powerful, I am forced to obey with no other choice but to be punished if I don’t want to.

And the government is already sold out to corporate America no matter which party is looting the treasury, so “for-get-about-it”

I’m all for Hollywood liberals paying more in taxes. Especially the ones making $20M for a single movie and demand I drive that piece of crap Chevy Volt. Or some sports athlete making enough to buy a third world country. Ya ….. what about those 1%?

And if liberals want to save the world, let them use their own money. I see all these Hollywood liberal blow-hards advocating more taxes to pay for more government waste, but they never seem to just come out and say, “Hey, I’m donating $10M of my own stash to help government pay down the deficit”.

Socialism VS the 1% = Government total control of everyone and everything. It’s a progressive herding of the population into slavery. I would rather be homeless and free, than a slave to a socialist regime.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Obama has raised more money than any other candidate in history. Please don’t tell me you think all his donors are girl scouts and nuns.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

The Pope has no authority to decide what is or isn’t an inalienable right. The founding father decided that, and it would be nice if people would respect the constitution for a change.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Truth addict,

Let me know when you invent those magic beans that will move us andAmerica’s commerce long distance quickly.

There is absolutely no energy alternative on the table at this time that can do that. However, natural gas is the cleanest of the bunch, and our cars can be cheaply converted for a fraction of what those cobbled together Chevy Vomits cost. Which by the way plug into the nasty coal fired electric grid to recharge their batteries. ~ Good grief, the fantasies of youth are wonderful folly.

But Obama won’t let us have any energy alternatives. He would rather throw away ½ a billion on Solyndra and other campaign bundler super packs who donated to his election.

The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is what they do with the money they loot from the treasury. And the Democrats usually loot the most. :)

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 5 weeks ago

I noticed that on Thom's RT show tonight that Thom displayed the pictures of the Republican candidates and told of who was putting up big bucks to back them...and then said that if he wins, then the wealthy backer wins. When he got to Mitt Romney (who got the most...something like $36 million) he again said that if he wins, then the wealthy backers win.

So how much has Obama gotten? Something like $76 milllion...all from elite donors several of which, playing both sides, were at the Billionaire Club Koch Brothers Seminar in Colorado. So who do you think we will be electing when Obama gets re-elected? That's right...all those wealthy elites that put Obama into office...just like Thom said (only he conveniently forgot to mention the Obama part).

Sorry, but the system is so corrupt that it really doesn't matter who is President..(although I would really detest another Republican President)...because, Republican or Democrat, they all work for the wealthy 1%. It is a real fight between the Repubs and the Dems who both want the control...but the wealthy elite wins no matter who wins...and they are having quite a time screwing with our minds.

Yes, there are all of those "hangers on" who actively support, and stand to gain, personally, from their side winning...many of whom are quite wealthy themselves...and are merely fighting over their slice of the pie...hogs at the trough...but most of us will continue to lose as we play their silly game at the polls...thinking we did something useful and important. Can't win when the deck is stacked! It's time we throw the deck away and get a new one that includes more parties and get a new shuffler and dealer as well.

I don't know if I necessarily agree that the Democrats spend more money than the Republicans...both work for the ruling elite and the Republicans want to give the wealthy the biggest tax breaks while taxing the rest of us.

That was Bush's illegal war he started which cost us dearly (although Obama didn't really do much to change that either... too weak-kneed, or he's part of the corruption). And it has been the Republicans backing Union busting and the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act that let the Savings banks wildly gamble with our savings. And although it technically happened at the very end of the lame duck Clinton Presidency and after being bullied with impeachment he gave in to the Republicans..Phil Gramm, etal. And it was the Republicans who have been anti-worker...wages and benefits declined. It was largely the Republicans who invented the housing crisis (criminal schemes to push mortgages, through easy credit, to those who they knew would lose their homes), and the Wall Street Ponzi schemes. But I don't think Obama is really much of a Democrat anyway...he has been mostly just a continuation of Bush.

I'd rather see the rich taxed the most (as it was in the Eisenhower era) and have social programs rather than making the Military Industrial Complex a lot of money by killing innocent civilians everywhere. It was largely the Republicans who made the guns for drugs and drug money laundering schemes. The Republicans are total sh!t as far as I am concerned. The Democrats are just weak kneed sissies who don't stand up and fight the real baddies...the Republicans. They also know where the real money comes from and money means votes. So our system is totally corrupt and I think the only thing that will change things is for a revolution. But I don't know if we Americans have the ba!!z like the Arab countries.

One thing, sans a revolution, that just might change things would be to keep all of the known good Democrats and kick everyone else out....All Republicans...many Democrats that act like Republicans....and put in some completely different party...Greens?

We need to really shake up the corrupt system to send a very strong message that we are not going to take it anymore and we can no longer be propagandized into voting for either of the two major parties. They have a duopoly that must be broken. Talk about "too big to fail"....our two party system is at the pinnacle.

But, I doubt that many Americans will have the ba!!z to even abandon the traditional old boyz club (two party system) because they have been so manipulated and propagandized that they will go running home to mama (the Democrat Party). But mama will sell you out to the highest bidder. We need to really mess up the corrupt system and shock these traitorous criminals into playing nice again. They don't respect us...they detest us. They think we are too stupid to break the ranks of the traditional two-party system. They may be right.

And now they are trying to get the drones up into our skies to patrol our neighborhoods to spy on us, intimidate us, and eventually to kill us like they do in the Middle East. They have already used them along the border and in a few other places in the US. But they want to saturate our communities with these drones.

By the way, Thom should change that one overly played scene where he is saying, with a close up shot, something to the effect "You know when you think you know something and but then you..." (it almost sounds like Rumsfeld's "Unknowable unknowns")....and then the camera pans backward to reveal that he is actually sitting on the sidewalk and not in a studio. That was a great idea but now that we've seen it a million times... Maybe he should surprise us sometime and have a background of the Grand Canyon ...or the Taj Mahal ..or something. But I do love not only Thom Hartmann's normal show but also The Big Picture...along with Alyona and the other programs. Hardly ever watch anything else on TV anyway

Elioflight's picture
Elioflight 11 years 5 weeks ago


I think you missed the sarcasim in my comment. I am an ex-catholic and believe the pope to be just a man heading a corrupt and powerful institution that thinks its duty is to tell all its members what to do. Religion is a farce. The pope seems to think that "health" includes men and not women--especially when it come to "down there."

It looks like you are just perusing the comments and backhanding them with your own spin.

michaelb44's picture
michaelb44 11 years 5 weeks ago

Because they are Republicans.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago


Thanks for the clarification.

The only thing I am stating is my response to a few comments. Mostly I think anything that transfers more centralized power to the federal government is eventually going to cause forfeiture of liberty. And anything that creates more redundant bureaucracy with union thugs buying off sell-out politicians is a continuing malice and expense to the private sector.

Government is the employee and the private sector is the employer. But some people want that relationship reversed. And some fools think Cuba or Venezuela is a social Nirvana.

Government can never be competitive because it’s a monopoly, thus it is by nature wasteful and inefficient. Anywhere possible, government control should be restricted and the private sector should be utilized to provide services wherever possible. And companies should be subjected to open transparent contract bidding, not concocted in dark back rooms where bribes between politicians and union thugs are now the norm.

I think government is the problem, not the solution. They need to get out of the way and let the free market work.

I think Obamacare is a complete nightmare.

Issues of the Catholic Church and birth control are insignificant compared to the effect this negative 2700 page healthcare bill will have in the ongoing future, until something else can be put together.

Anyway, that’s just my 2 cents worth.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Liberty-First:Obama has raised more money than any other candidate in history.
There's a difference between constructive and destructive: Obama's goals are positive, right-wingers, Republicans, libertarians are nothing but destructive. Basically a bunch of lunatics, a fact most Americans got lately -- you're done. Why waste your time here? You won't win anything but a headache....

Any dollar the president raises is for our future -- welcome bucks!

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Liberty-First:I would rather get cheated by a corporation because I can choose not to deal with them.
Corporate monopolies finally lead to the same results as those monopolies we know from communist countries: Monopolies out of control, without checks and balances. This is very dangerous, because you can't trust any human power that is not watched, checked and balanced. Otherwise there will be concentrations of power that lead to dictatorship, or after all even to aristocracies and monarchism. This is a very old human experience you gotta learn about urgently -- a fatal gap in your education.

And where are checks and balances to be organized? Of course in the institutions of our democratic political system -- goverment departments are a part of it and very-very important!

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

How can I get a headache from debating liberals? I used to be one. Clinton is one of my favorite Presidents. I know all their talking points.

But currently I lean libertarian not conservative. Like Ron Paul might say “We want Democrats out of our wallets and Republicans out of our bedrooms”. In libertarian speak, it means a desire for less government meddling, onerous job killing regulation and “wedge issue” exploitation. And instead of taxing more, spend less! At least that’s how average folks have to budget.

Obama’s goals are positive to those who want to transfer more power to a central federal government complex and create a more socialist society. If you want that, vote for him!

Any money Obama raises for the future borrowed from China or in increased taxes quickly gets spent yesterday. Or are you in denial about how much debt he’s given to America in 3 short years?

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Clarissa Smith

I’m not sure I understand your point.

I think you are suggesting corporate monopolies lead to communism?

I don’t think corporate monopoles lead to communist societies. (Maybe an oligarchy).

Communists take over when enough of society vilifies the rich and successful. Then they take over the corporations and convert them by force or attrition to state run industries generally overseen by corrupt bureaucrats far worse and more damning than any corporate CEO.

Liberal leftists in rose colored glasses convince themselves into believing government is a better vehicle for societal prosperity. But generally whenever power is concentrated in a central government it fails, corrupts and the people suffer miserably. Only the elites and oligarchs live lavishly. They water their gardens with the peasant’s tears.

Liberal thinking brought you the Weimar Republic, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, Greece .. yawn …. Too many failures …. I can’t think of one country that benefits from socialism or communism. They survive, but they don’t live in liberty.

And stay tuned, lots more liberal nanny states in Europe are going to fall. All because they wanted the government to give them too much “free stuff” and didn’t care if it came as a result of unsustainable national debt or just a shake down of anyone who appeared to own more “stuff” than they had. They want “WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION” which basically boils down to vilifying and looting the successful sector of society and giving it to a lesser fortunate part of society.

At some point you run out of rich people. Do you think wealthy people are stupid and are just going to sit still while you tax them to death? They take their wealth out of country. POOF, now who do you fleece and vilify? The person with the more food stamps than you?

As for corporate monopolies in America, by law they are supposed to be broken up. But politicians from both sides of the isles have allowed mergers and far too many conglomerates in banking and insurance to become “too big to fail”

The answer isn’t to swing to the other side of the listing ship and make government alternately too big and powerful to respect the constitution. Or alternately hang every corporation not making I-pods from the yardarm.

The solution is clean out the corrupt sell-out politicians through the vote and put people in power that will follow the constitution. ~~ And EDUCATE yourself.

I still believe the founding fathers of America wrote the most profoundly successful rule book for society. And it works really really well if you don’t meddle with it and try and compromise it or circumnavigate it by using the commerce clause as an “Et Al” loophole to literally hijack the entire economy.

I like to debate. If I’m giving you a headache you can go back to preaching to your own choir. But then you don’t have a debate of differing ideas, you have a gaggle of agreeing people reinforcing their version of things as they see it.

George Reiter's picture
George Reiter 11 years 5 weeks ago

The Republicans clearly fall under the category of being cruel. What is also surprising is how the Republicans can get away with being so cruel in spite of the voting public. Is there something that we all are missing? Is our Republic truly lost?

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago


~The public option:

The government has options for mail and shipping. It’s called the Untied States Postal Service.

It is an absolutely honorable service and I and many others will miss it if it goes bankrupt. But that’s what’s happening in government public services today as a result of Public Worker Union strangulation of the taxpayer.

Someone who delivers mail gets a great salary, job security etc. They can even suck at it and they can’t be fired without months of debate, thanks to unions.

Then when they retire, a fabulous golden parachute pension and 94% of their pay and full medical awaits them after as little as 20 years civil service. If they start at 20 and retire at forty and live to 80 … you do the math “grasshopper”. It’s your tax dollars dummy! The private sector that pays for USPS would be so lucky to ever get such benefits working for UPS.

Government jobs are becoming so “gold plated” that I scratch my head how they can sustain their fabulous job security while the private sector slaves to pay their union thug demands?

The post office is a simple example of government gone wild. And now you want to SUPER-SIZE government and empower them to meddle in health insurance?

Unless you work for the government, you will be disappointed. I have one word dummy – Greece!

Alternately you could deregulate health insurance the same way auto insurance is deregulated across state lines and you will see prices drop as a result of free market competition.

Get rid of the frivolous law suits Democrats so cherish and malpractice insurance will come down.

Giving government control of health care, energy, food production etc. is a proven inefficient vehicle for individual prosperity because government by its every virtue was never designed to be profitable or efficient. You can’t turn it into anything other than socialism because it is for all it’s intents and purpose a servant of the private sector. The founding fathers KNEW the dangers of misinterpreting that.

And that’s why liberalism is a deceiving doctrine that per it’s textbook ideology promises prosperity and security, but delivers neither.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

Communistic regimes lead to nothing but oligarchy. Consequent libertarianism also leads to oligarchy. Both ideologies are extreme, both are unrealistic. The utopistic ideas of libertarianism and communism both don't work out, in reality they both tip over to oligarchy.

The libertarian mind is either immature (adolescent), pathological (developmental disturbance), or expression of extreme selfishness. Communistic oligarchs have always been ruthless and insane persons. A libertarian oligarch is exactly the same type. The communistic and libertarian societies look very much like fascism and it probably is fascism in the final outcome. Lunatics like Qaddafi.

You add in whimsical symbols like "~~". You have big gaps between your paragraphs and it basically looks messy. If I try to make you out, you come over like a chaotic adolescent. If you're older, something must be wrong -- either with me or with you.....

This might help: http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2012/02/daily-topics-thursday-february-...

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

I don't read your texts completely, for it really squeaks. If one reads too much crazy fantasies, it can harm, so I have to keep the dosis low. While scanning over your weird text just got this:

Quote Liberty-First:Liberal thinking brought you the Weimar Republic, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, Greece

This is pseudo-knowledge, gained via pseudo-learning by an obviously extremely lazy learner. You shoot fast and out comes a bunch of absolutized stew that doesn't make sense. Your stew is nothing but pseudo-historical fake and you have no idea what you're talking about. You mix up various historic events from various eras on various continents under entirely diverging conditions. What a hoax!

This is libertarianism, folks -- this is how libertarians are: Messy fakers, who don't really think. We already know that, we don't need that and we definitely don't want that.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

Yes, your stuff sounds self-interested, ruthless....... very-very selfish. You're not at all trying to advocate and organize a just and healthy society. You're not to trust.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Thank you Clarissa for your critiques.

I can see you hate libertarians along with everyone else that isn’t swilling and drunk on liberal cool-aid. Perhaps you think Ron Paul is no better than the late Momar Qudaffy Duck too?

You forgot to call libertarians racists because they disagree with your messiah. Perhaps you can put it in your next lecture? I worry when liberals forget to pull the race card. ….. Perhaps you have ESP and realize I’m black? (Silly know-it-all liberals)

PS: I compose my responses in MS word then paste to this blog. Thom’s blog formatting double spaces my paragraphs after I post. Complain to his webmaster if it has your knickers in a knot. Personally I couldn’t care a less.

Silly liberals ~ ~ ~ lemmings cheerfully running themselves over a cliff. You can’t wait to forfeit your liberty to the least qualified bureaucrat you can elect.
You were destroyed in the 2010 midterms once your communist agenda was exposed. Nothing has changed.
You are going to need all the sleaze and ballot box stuffing and ACORN on steroids and black panther union thugs to scam another term.
The silent majority is awake and have had it with the progressive liberal hope and change Trojan Horse deception.
You’re exposed. The CZARS are exposed, you’re finished!
The liberal agenda will be reduced to a fart in a hurricane. America is center right. ~ Sorry about that socialist sports fans.

Come into the light Clarissa Smith. Join us and leave the dark side behind before its too late. :)

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Clarissa Smith

Good grief!
Only a liberal could paint communism and libertarianism with the same brush and suggest that each ideology inevitably evolves to the same ends.
Clarissa, step away from the cool-aid dummy pitcher and back away before you hurt yourself.

Communism is about total power by government over the societies people. It denies personal liberty; it’s corrupt, it’s evil and cruel. I think we can agree, yes? / No?

Libertarianism is about total power of the people over its government. It denies government to trample on its right to personal liberty, prosecutes and erases its corrupt elements, and prevents evils from growing in government.
Libertarians follow the letter of the constitution far more closely than either Democrats or Republicans do. Libertarians believe in charity, not welfare. “A government that fears the people is a free country, a country where the people fear the government is slavery”. Libertarians want their government humble and in its place as a civil servant. Not hiding in dark back offices cooking up subversive and destructive legislation to shove down everyone’s throat.

Therefore, communism and libertarianism are as different as black is to white.

And Progressive liberalism is a socialist ideology that advocates wealth redistribution, endless government regulation, massive government growth, endless special interest subsidies, meddling and tinkering at every level of the economy ending up in the obstruction and destruction of business prosperity and negligent waste of the people’s treasure that is often criminal.
And tons of welfare and social programs that train and incentivize a huge sector of the population to be unproductive and dependant.
And when the bill for all their works comes due, they raise taxes, borrow money from China or just simply go broke like nearly all liberal states today. Think about it … all the liberal states in America are in the worst financial condition.
It was the liberal mentality and policies that destroyed Greece.

Meanwhile, liberals consider themselves intellectual elites and superior to everyone else. They elect leaders who have empty resumes, no business experience, and no outstanding accomplishments to their record. And then when their leaders and policies fail, they blame it on Bush.
They admonish Christians; call Christmas trees holiday trees but advocate for foreign Muslims rights. They are contradictory, hypocritical and arrogant.
They hate domestic energy production so passionately that the economy crumbles under the weight of moving its commerce with expensive OPEC oil. Everything they meddle in causes pain to the struggling middleclass. So they pass out more welfare and food stamps instead of just getting their damn boot off the peoples neck and let them soar like eagles instead of pining them down under onerous government interference.

I AM A FORMER LIBERAL. I left the hypocrisy when idiots like Van Jones and all the other stooges, CZARs, and union thugs started hijacking America. These people want to flip the switch and one day you wake up with a dictator in the WH.
Liberals can’t be trusted.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

Libertarians are idiots. Your windbaggy talk can't convince me to take you seriously.

Quote Liberty-First:Liberal thinking brought you the Weimar Republic, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, Greece .. yawn …. Too many failures …. I can’t think of one country that benefits from socialism or communism.
Russia was a monarchy before the communistic revolution. You talk nothing but silly nonsense.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

I can prove you dishonest, Liberty-First:

Quote Liberty-First:I don’t think corporate monopoles lead to communist societies. (Maybe an oligarchy).
A communist regime is always an oligarchy! All communistic countries have developed oligarchies. Why? Because they are based on a dictatorship that has a total monopoly.

Everybody knows humans are driven by greed. Most people want as much might as possible. And if you have no checks and balances, they take all. Result: oligarchy. If you have a libertarian monopoly of Koch Bros. ect. this will become an oligarchy.

In the final outcome it doesn't matter whether an oligarchy developed from communist monopoly or libertarian monopoly: The result will always be a minority suppressing the majority. You know a monopoly is the at least possible outcome of libertarianism, as I just quoted you. The libertarianism you guys advocate is dangerous!


Summary of My Other Posts on This Matter:

Communistic regimes lead to nothing but oligarchy. Consequent libertarianism also leads to oligarchy. Both ideologies are extreme, both are unrealistic. The utopistic ideas of libertarianism and communism both don't work out, in reality they both tip over to oligarchy.

Corporate monopolies finally lead to the same results as those monopolies we know from communist countries: Monopolies out of control, without checks and balances. This is very dangerous, because you can't trust any human power that is not watched, checked and balanced. Otherwise there will be concentrations of power that lead to dictatorship, or after all even to aristocracies and monarchism.

And where are checks and balances to be organized? Of course in the institutions of our democratic political system -- goverment departments are an important part of it.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

One thing I like about Thom’s blog is that the socialists aren’t hiding behind the less repulsive moniker of “Progressive Liberals”. They are walking it like they talk it and I respect that.
I watch Thom on RT television which I prefer over FOX and CNN. And MSNBC hasn’t the journalistic credibility of Hugo Chavez, so screw that propaganda Obama channel.

The election of a libertarian party is extremely unlikely. Even Conservatives have big problems with the ideology, especially on national defense. That’s why Paul runs as a republican.

I lean libertarian most specifically on the ideas of limiting the power and scope of government. I really care about that because I think government is a terrible vehicle for prosperity. It wrecks or loots everything it meddles in.

Both Democrats and Republicans are drunk with increasing government expansion because it equals more power and greed. And every decade that passes, America is robbed by both parties of more and more liberty. There are so many stupid laws on the books it’s depressing. Just for your kid to open a lemonade stand, some liberal loon jurisdictions have required food service health exams, health permits, inspections and hundreds $ in license fees. One jurisdiction requires that your kids front lawn lemonade stand has a certified fire extinguisher. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU NEED A FIRE EXTINGUISHER FOR TO SELL LEMONADE????
So the nanny state loons think all this bull pucky is needed so some kids can learn about free enterprise and maybe make $10 to put towards a bicycle or skate board. That’s your liberal nanny state at work. THUGS AND BULLIES WITH POWERFUL GOVERNMENT JOBS = Tyranny
Libertarians want to send them all on their merry arrogant way to the unemployment line.

We used to be diehard democrats, but the party has been hijacked by all these socialist types. And socialism is the slippery slope to totalitarianism which is a precursor to communism. Add TSA, Patriot Act, and a never ending barrage of new onerous regulation, and I’d say America is halfway down the slope.

Just like the hippies in the 60’s there are impressionable kids today, and stupid adult CZARS running around quoting Chairman Mao like the man never killed millions of his own people.
And when Obama got elected, all the socialist came out of the closet and now the center right country can see the Progressive Liberal movement for what it is, a “government takeover”.

The 2010 midterm beating liberals took was a clear repudiation of liberal polices. Millions who supported Obama felt betrayed. He has lost those people, mostly independents and blue dog dems. I think if the turnout in 2012 carries the same sentiments, almost anyone could dethrone him.

I was hopeful for Romney in 2008 because he has business experience and America is the biggest corporation in world history. Obama has never run a lemonade stand, maybe just regulated them out of business but that’s not what America needs right now.
Paul is a constitutionalist and will protect people’s rights, not trample all over them. Plus he has a huge following of young people and supporters that aren’t brain washed by the progressive left. They will vote for a Romney/Paul ticket. They also know that you can’t run America like Greece and expect to have any future. So they will stay home before they will ever vote for Barack Hussein Obama.

I give you Romney/Paul for 2012
Now you can fly into a rage and call me a racist even though I’m black.

Silly liberals, tricks are for kids.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Thanks Clarissa Smith
RE: Libertarians.

The founding fathers all had a conception of the role of government that was vastly more limited than what we accept today. If they were to come back to us they would undoubtedly be in favor of eliminating 90% or more of the functions of all levels of modern government. Their principals on limited government leaned towards libertarian. And not even close to liberal or communist.

Progressive Liberalism on the other hand is contrary to the constitution. It advocates for big government and massive encroachments on liberty. It’s basically socialism.
But socialism is such a nasty word. So they came up with the name “Liberal”. And when they realized they can never turn the country socialist in one swoop, they came up with the progressive approach. “Which is to subvert and take over slowly, one baby step at a time”. (Very sneaky). Things like taking over the schools and churches and re-educating with socialist propaganda.
(Read “Rules Radicals” if it isn’t already under your pillow).

Thus today they call themselves “Progressive Liberals”.
But by putting their agenda out so openly in the face of the public over the past 3 years, I believe the “Progressive” movement has suffered irreparable public relations damage. The resumes of any of the CZARS would have the founding fathers running for muskets and drawing battle lines. :)
Make no mistake; the 2010 midterms underlined the repudiation of socialist policies and all the sneaky back room deals.

What happened to Obama’s promise to put the healthcare debates on CSPAN?
In fact I actually think he honestly intended to do that, but high-ups in his party and/or other shadow interests seem to have ordered him to follow a different agenda.

The constitution is at the foundation of modern day Libertarian ideology. So if you think Libertarians are crazy lunatics, then perhaps you think the founding fathers were crazy lunatics too since they had the same beliefs. So you must not defend the constitution. Which means you might be happier in some other country with the values you think are sane and just.
You mentioned you liked Germany. I don’t see America adopting the German constitution any time soon, so is there any chance you could move there to get away from all us lunatics? :)

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

We are focusing too much on the president. If Ron Paul would become the GOP nominee (he never will) you would vote for a racist party. People like Santorum or Gingrich won't eat you, but you should have seen how they play the racist card. So if you're an African-American, you truly act like those lemmings which run into the water and drown themselves -- and nobody can explain why they act so silly.

Ron Paul himself owned a paper that contained racist stuff. His followers claim he wouldn't read all his papers, but...

1.) That's a mistake! Even I, as an amateur, watch my blogs -- nobody is gonna comment sometn' that is against the law or against human rights! I would linguistically atom-bomb any racist commentator harder than anybody else! If I was the owner of a paper I would at least keep my ears open, and listen to reports what's in there. For I am responsible!!

2.) I think the truth really is, Ron Paul at least is not very much against racism. He comes from Texas where he got used to racism. And still I very am afraid it's even possible Paul is a racist and he's just concealing it.

Whatever, focusing on the president is actually wrong. The work is very much being done in CONGRESS. We're not living in a Obama monarchy, democracy means balancing out power, controlling might, checks & balances. Right now our supreme court is disfunctioning, which is a little dangerous, but I think our democracy will be able to fix that. If Ron Paul was the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party, it wouldn't be so very harmful, for he couldn't spoil much there. But as GOP candidate he would be a threat. Sadly, the GOP is fascist right now.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

How libertarian where our beloved Founding Fathers? How many Afro-American slaves did they have? How did they treat their wives?

Must we really discuss THAT???

I love Handel, today in Germany spelled Händel, but actually born Hendel (see, it's relative, like "liberal"). I really adore his music, but he has a dark side: STOCK IN SLAVE SHIPS. So, I appreciate our fathers AND MOTHERS, but don't really want to live in their time. We had progress in the meantime and we won't roll it back.

Libertarianism is like freehand biking -- you easily fall on your face.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

RE We are focusing too much

I heard about Paul’s problems over some newsletter from many years ago and the accusations it had racist undertones.
Also heard when Paul was a practicing MD, he treated hundreds of poor people including minorities for free during his time as a doctor. That’s an example of libertarian charity at work.
“It’s less about what people say and more about what people do”. Apply that to Obama’s flowery campaign promises and compare it to what’s he done and tell me if he walks it like he talks it?
But don’t tell me its GW’s fault.

There will probably always be twinges of racism in all societies. It’s human nature for people to seek out likeness more so than diversity. We may be hardwired this way from after we ALL evolved from the plains of Africa and spread out across the globe. Perhaps it’s why the Neanderthals went extinct. Our homo sapien ancestors may not have cared about diversity and simply out performed the competition or wiped them out. But today there is but one human species that comes in different colors. It is us.

Best way to stop racism is stop talking about it. And politicians should stop using “race baiting” to push bad policies or make something out of nothing.

Prior to 2010, democrats had the house, the senate and the presidency. They still got little done because many democrats didn’t even agree with Obama. Some had to be taken in back rooms out of the public eye, threatened or bribed in order to get the health care bill passed and other contentious legislated rammed through. That’s why it was never on CPSAN.

The people voted out all the dems they could in the midterms as a result of this un-American behavior, and elected people who promised would stop the Obama agenda. They are doing in congress now what they promised their constituents and that is to block Obama from doing things that a majority of Americans disagree with. The people have spoken.
And in return, Obama is vetoing the XL Pipeline that even his union supporters want to go forward. And he’s deliberately denied expansion of new energy recovery domestically. Thus you have a failing economy.
Except in North Dakota where unemployment is at 3%. They can’t find enough workers fast enough to frack the oil out of the ground and get it to the American people who desperately need this energy.

And you just wait as these gas prices keep going up how quick the big oil haters suddenly realize that not only gas is sky rocketing, so is the price of food and everything else.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Liberalism is like young teenagers left alone for the weekend with their parent’s wallet full of credit cards.
The parents come home and have to file for bankruptcy :)

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 5 weeks ago

Speaking of Ron Paul, Grasshopper, did you see him in that movie "Bruno"? I was lucky I didn't get "sucked" in to paying good money at the theaters. This movie was oddly funny but was "worse than cancer". Very shocking indeed ..some of the scenes and motions. And, not being previously aware of Ron Paul being in that movie...or even what the movie was about...I was rather shocked that Ron Paul was in the movie. I did see Sacha Baron Cohen in his earlier movie several years ago. But had forgotten about it.

"Sacha Baron Cohen's gay Austrian fashion commentator Bruno did conduct an interview with Ron Paul, the Texas Congressman has confirmed, as had been reported last month."

By the way, you keep downing liberalism as being reckless or greedy with other people's money...but it sure hasn't been liberalism that set the new record on this kind of behavior. If we still had a healthy liberalism ruling this country we wouldn't be having the horrendous economic tragedy that has been caused by people with anti-liberal (aka: Conservative or Libertarian) principles that praise selfishness and hatefulness toward others. These bloodsucking leeches, at the top, rig the game so only they get well compensated. CEOs get golden parachutes when they leave the company they trashed but all of the workers get shafted. So-called Cadillac Welfare Queens are nothing compared to the greedy pigs at the top of the socio-economic heap who bribe government officials for special privilege and then turn right around and call the government they bribed dirty names. These scamming economic parasites have sucked the country dry and then turned around and called the people they scammed a bunch of liberal riff-raff. Well, one of these days these citizens will turn on the likes of these criminals and I wouldn't be too unhappy if they didn't stop at just throwing them in prison for life.


Quote LibertyFirst: Liberalism is like young teenagers left alone for the weekend with their parent’s wallet full of credit cards.
The parents come home and have to file for bankruptcy :)

Cute, but not accurate....the kids are more like the top 1% who are picking your pockets of your retirement savings and bank accounts. And you can bet that the top 1% are not liberals. They are either Republicans or Libertarians.
You can name-call all you want, just like Fox snooze does, but our recent terrible economic state has not been caused by liberals. This should be very obvious to most sane people.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Liberty-First:Liberalism is like young teenagers left alone for the weekend with their parent’s wallet full of credit cards.
See, the 1% consider the 99% children. I thought they would.... Like those kings and state rulers 300 years ago considered common people children.

duvall51's picture
duvall51 11 years 5 weeks ago

I'm not happy with the majority of the candidates running for office, but I can tell you the Obamacare is not what it's being shown to the public. I'm a small business owner, Obamacare will shut me down in less than two years. As a business owner i'm required to carry, at a minimum, whats called Obamacare. Which doesn't sound unreasonable. However uf you keep reading that "law" it says that if I don't i will be fined up to 75% of the annual cost of providing Obamacare to my employees. Here is the catch, it's an internet business, i have no employees, yet i will still be fined for not having it. Here is a novel idea, take the budgett for "entitlement" and spend it on Obamacare. Or better yet, quit spending $75 Billion to rebuild forgein mosks. The vast majority of governments don't like the US unless we're paying for something. So quit trying to cater to them. We are the UNITED states of America yet we have never been so devided. Take care of your own first. Then worry about the rest.

duvall51's picture
duvall51 11 years 5 weeks ago

Our current economic state is very easily seen. The economy spiked a huge 400%, yet the income of the private sector (let me define what i call the private sector: any working US citizen who does not hold a government job) increased less than 2%. There is nothing supporting our economy. And IT WILL COLLAPSE. The FED will continue to print money to support the economy and that will work for a time, but eventually that wont cut it anymore. We are talking inflation of double digits. 12 to 15%. Listening to the governments "cheerleading" economists say how things will improve, then reading books written by these same people and seeing how much they controdict themselves. Hope for the best but PREPARE for the worst.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

duvall51 Our current economic state is

Thank you. ~ Finally someone gets it!

Hallelujah, the light is on afterall

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

duvall51 Our current economic state is

I’m a long term business owner too. I’m not hiring anymore. My partner and I are exempt from Obmacare and many other onerous business killing regulations because we are not employees and thus exempt.
We are selling off assets while we can and hoping for the best.

Many of these liberals have never run a business and have no economic experience about how wealth is created. They think that anyone who has more than them must have stole it or cheated someone out of it. The idea that people work hard all their lives to get wealth doesn’t occur to them.
The more liberalism they demand, the more people who own businesses are going to withdraw, layoff people or just quit. You can’t force businesses to work for no profit. Liberals just don't get it.

Therein is the fatal flaw of liberalism. You run out of so called rich people to tax into oblivion.

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago


Did I read correctly that you have no employees and still have to pay for employee health care?
If that’s the case then independent self employed professionals who have no employees like engineers, architects, realtors etc. would probably have to pay too?
This will definitely contribute to many sole proprietors giving up their practices and looking to become employees of bigger firms. That will flood many job markets and depress wages.
Not to mention the heartbreak for people who built their little cottage industries and can’t afford anymore onerous expense on top of a bad economy.

It almost feels like society is being herded into a blind canyon.

Scary times.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago

The healthcare thing most certainly has to be improved. Nobody doubts that. So if you guys struggle, I do understand. Other people made different experiences. I heard people talking like, "Without Obamacare I'd be dead now"... or their loved one would. So here you see how the nation is divided. Some want more healthcare, you guys obviously don't want it at all.

In Germany PUBLIC healthcare works perfectly. And there it is LAW, that you aren't allowed to live without healthcare. And if you cannot pay that, government does. That's how it should be. Middle-age is over, when people croaked out on the streets. Why don't you just go to Mexico (I just return the fire)? I mean Germany is a great place to live, if you get a job there....

So! Obamacare has to be improved over the next four years. The German system works here too, law of nature isn't working differently here. What they don't have over there are those stubborn Republicans, who held us off... as a few blue-dogs too. But it has to be done.

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Liberty-First:Best way to stop racism is stop talking about it.
If you keep Ku Klux Klan under wraps, it doesn't exist any longer, huh? Like in those families, where the father daily beats up spouse and kids and rapes the daughters, but noooooo, let's not talk about it! So, if a gang of white racists beat up African-Americans in one of our cities, you hate to bring it up? We had still apartheid, if this would have been our motto in the past!

You are a suppressing mind. You actually need a split personality to accept something like that. Are you a split personality? I mean some people hate themselves....

200 years ago you would've been like, "Slavery? Stop talking about it!" Indeed, many slaves pretended to love their slave masters. Even loving the person who tortures you is a human attitude. In Nazi Germany there were Jews who adored Hitler. And when the Nazis began to annihilate them, some of them even still said, Hitler wouldn't know about this and it couldn't be he wanted it. WOW!

Clarissa Smith's picture
Clarissa Smith 11 years 5 weeks ago
Quote Liberty-First:The people voted out all the dems they could in the midterms as a result of this un-American behavior, and elected people who promised would stop the Obama agenda. They are doing in congress now what they promised their constituents and that is to block Obama from doing things that a majority of Americans disagree with.
People were never constistent. Political results need time, but they can never wait. In Wisconsin and Massachusetts they flip-flopped the teaparty into the House. You flip-flopped too.

You actually type like somebody who is on welfare. You really kill a lot of time.... one opus, another opus.... and all extremely long. Herman Cain might say, "If you kill so much time on liberal blogs, blame yourself!"

Liberty-First's picture
Liberty-First 11 years 5 weeks ago

Hi Clarissa:

I must be threatening to your leftist propaganda machine. You’re fishing, …. but I will happily tell you, and I am proud to say, I have never collected welfare or unemployment. And I came from a broken family and was on my own at 15. I survived by working hard and creating my own opportunities. Not sitting on my ass demanding someone hand them to me.

By the way I respect Thom, he’s educated, well written and interesting and used the current capitalist system to acquire wealth. Good for him!
And I like his blog, even more than some of the conservative blogs, which for me are too predictable because I agree with them too much.
But I don’t agree with much of Thom’s politics. However, I am interested in what sort comments people have that are in lockstep with the socialist leftist agenda.
….. There’s a saying: “Keep Your Friends Close, But Keep Your Enemies Closer”

The difference between you and me Clarissa, is I have an open mind and believe in objectivity. And that’s the opposite of the self observed, isolated ignorance of Progressive Liberalism. Look at all your posts. You are a typical liberal. You vilify anyone with a different point of view. That’s because progressive liberalism is SOOOOO fallible as to be indefensible under reasonable debate or scrutiny.

And I already told you, stop talking about racism - KKK and all that crap. Those are liberal “race baiting” tactics to deflect attention from your miserably defective ideology and don’t reflect the realty of the majority of the greater American experience.

You my dear live in a liberal bubble. Someone should throw some red meat into that dark basement and coach you out into the sun once a weak so you can get some vitamin D.

Now run along and play and don’t talk to strangers promising to buy your gas and pay your mortgage, they’re lying to you.

Silly Liberals ~ Street Hustlers Are For Kids. :)

Thom's Blog Is On the Move

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