Daily Topics - Wednesday May 9th, 2012

Catch The Thom Hartmann Program LIVE at our new time, 3-6pm Eastern!

Hour One: Latest on President Obama and gay marriage...

Hour Two: Don't moms deserve a safety net too? Carrie Lukas, Independent Womens Forum

Hour Three: Latest on the Caterpillar strike in Joliet, IL - Steve Jones, District 8 IAM&AW

Comments

iskylark 8 years 14 weeks ago
#1

I couldn't get through the clogged telephone lines, but several people beat me to it. I believe the Republicans WILL use this to hurt Obama and it will hurt, However, hopefully, it will bring a number of young people back with some enthusiasm, this is what they have been waiting for!

I just hope that cynicism has not captured their votes

tjefffan's picture
tjefffan 8 years 14 weeks ago
#2

If a church wants to marry a gay couple and a state stops them from doing so (via a state constitutional amendement), why isn't that a violation of the 1st amendment (free exercise of religion). This is an attack on religious freedom!!!!!!!!!!

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 8 years 14 weeks ago
#3

Obama is doing what he believes is correct. If he remains unwaivering in this, I can't see it hurting him. Yes it will give the Republicans something to rally around against him, but it also gives his Left base something to rally around too. I think it will bring more of the populace out to the polls... ask Jude Wannisky how that works for the right. Remember of all the money that is spent against the Left, its spent to keep people from showing up to the polls... well this is something people can show up for. I would like to see Romney flop on this issue, I just don't see that happening.

N

Bernsen 8 years 14 weeks ago
#4

Thom,

Next time you have a caller use the straw man argument, "Well if two men can get married, then why can't a man marry a goat?"

The answer is, "Can a goat (of legal age) consent and agree to get married?" If the answer is, "No." then you can't get married to a goat.

Everyone involved in a marrage has to agree to it.

-Tim

DoormanDan's picture
DoormanDan 8 years 14 weeks ago
#5

The church that allows same sex marriage is United Church of Christ.

SukiRainbowPup's picture
SukiRainbowPup 8 years 14 weeks ago
#6

Dear Thom,

Thank you so much for sharing the connection between sugar-leg pain- and apple cider vinegar yesterday. I was listening to the podcast today, as my leg was in pain. I immediately took some organic cider vinegar in water and within 30 minutes my leg ceased hurting. My leg has hurt intermittantly for the last 8 months, and I had no idea why.....

My podcast subscription for the last few years (while always worthwhile) was especially USEFUL today.

Thank you so much!!!!

Rocketj86's picture
Rocketj86 8 years 14 weeks ago
#7

Thom,

After reading the news about Obama and gay marriage just before leaving work, and your discussioon on KTNF now, as a straight man I donated $250 to Obama for America a little while ago in support. I encourage your other listeners to do the same!

It took me a while to post this because I just joined the room since you are now on live in Minneapolis...

Roy

Maxrot's picture
Maxrot 8 years 14 weeks ago
#8

How disappointing it is that so many Americans fear having their children exposed to homosexuality from media sources. Just as sad as those who fear having their kids exposed to any sexual content from media sources. That fear often is translated wrong by the children (or correctly but unhealthily) so it perpetuates this stigma. My wife and I have always been honest to our children about sexuality and from a young age we frankly answered their questions. My oldest is still per-pubescent, but I'm not seeing him have any hang-ups or embarrassment about it, he's very mature about the matter and isn't scared or confused. It seems that so many people are worried about warping children's minds by exposing them to facts, and I think that its quite the opposite. My wife and I also teach our kids that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, yet my children are not showing signs of being so, people are who they are, and there is no reason to not to teach tolerance. Far too much ignorance and fear in this world.

N

Quoflector's picture
Quoflector 8 years 14 weeks ago
#9

LET'S HELP HOMOPHOBES UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE--AND WHAT JUSTICE REQUIRES

Gays should be welcomed in church and society without prejudice.

I have information to help those with family members and friends (or, as Thom says, "a crazy brother-in-law") who believe the Bible condemns all gays.

First, I commend to everyone the following book:

What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak (available online at Alibris Books; used, as low as 99 cents plus shipping).

While a summary cannot do justice to the controversial passages in scripture, here's some food for thought while you seek more in-depth information:

Taken out of context and read literally, the Bible appears to condemn gays or oppose all gay sex in Genesis, Leviticus, Romans and in two other New Testament books.

The passage in Genesis 19 regarding Sodom does not refer to the relationships of gays. It refers to gang rape--which deserves condemnation whether committed by gays or straights.

Moreover, the prophet Ezekiel (16:49) declares: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." The latter is a reference to the ironclad duty of hospitality--required of every household in ancient Mesopotamia so traders and "strangers" (foreigners) could travel in safety. Jesus stated the sin of Sodom when sending out the 72 occurred "when you enter a town and are not welcomed" (inhospitality; see Luke 10:10-12). Jesus is not recorded saying anything about homosexuality.

In Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13), as discussed on today's show, "lying with a man as a woman" is called an abomination--and the latter verse condemns male gays to death (it says nothing about lesbians: so should gay males be stoned and lesbians ignored?)

These are purity laws, part of the Holiness Code, which no Christian follows today. Nor should we. Paul says we are discharged from the law (Romans 7:6; see 10:4). Jesus calls for an ethic of love: love of God and love of neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). Jesus makes clear that everyone--even Israel's detested enemy--is a neighbor we are to love in word and deed (see "the Good Samaritan," Luke 10:25-37).

Leviticus 20 prescribes death for idolatry and various sexual offenses as well as killing a child for cursing his father or mother. Can we pick and choose which scriptures offend us? Can we ignore other verses that, if followed, would sentence perhaps a million Americans to death--including family or friends, or even us? Doesn't selectivity indicate prejudice rather than the search for Biblical truth?

(Also, these Old Testament passages are based on the ancient view that life resides in the male's seed. So "spilled seed" was considered an abomination, and a wife's adultery required stoning because she is the 'garden' owned by the husband for planting his seed. By contrast, a husband could have sex with concubines, prostitutes and other single women without violating his wife; as indicated above, however, if he has sex with the man's wife, he violates the husband.)

There is much ambiguity and uncertainty regarding Romans 1 (verses 26 and 27) which are often read as referring to all homosexual acts. What were the "shameless acts" Paul refers to? The context appears to be that heterosexuals were committing sexual acts which went against their own nature. This was true of both male and female "sacred prostitutes" who, in the ancient Greek cities in which Paul traveled, were committing idolatry in pagan temples. The context simply does not warrant condemning all gay sex acts, including those between partners in a long-term relationship.

Many scholars suggest other New Testament passages [I Corinthians (6:9); Timothy (1:10)] refer to sexual slavery, exploitative sex, adultery and/or idolatry. The Biblical terms in the original Greek contradict traditional interpretations while frequently supporting these views. For example, "arsenokoitai" (Greek transliteration) is mistranslated as "homosexual" in some versions of the Bible, but these translations are mistaken: As Boswell concludes from an extensive analysis of ancient Greek literature, arsenokoitai in this context most likely refers to male prostitutes, either homosexual or heterosexual. Likewise, malakoi, frequently refers to heterosexuals in ancient Greek literature--not exclusively to homosexuals--and is often translated "adulterers." (John Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality, pp. 106-109).

This barely scratches the surface. To understand "what the Bible really says about homosexuality," pick up Daniel Helminiak's book with this title.

For a personal narrative, Mel White's, Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America is a classic (also currently available, used, online at Alibris for 99 cents plus shipping). The Library Journal's review states: "This is the account of a deeply religious man's coming to terms with his gayness and the impact that process had on his life. A former ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, and other religious-right personalities, White offers a compelling story; gay readers raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment will find themselves saying, 'That happened to me.'"

My suggestion when talking with a person who staunchly believes the Bible condemns homosexuality: Your best point of agreement is that you both want to know the truth about the Bible. Focus on this as you discuss (not argue about) how each scripture is best understood. Listen as long as you speak. When the time seems right, you might share one of these books.

Blessings,

Harry

--

Reverend Harry Rix, Publisher, www.OccupyLabor.org (launched May 1) and www.OccupySpirituality.org (transferring host; online again later this week)

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