Once again, another mass shooting is tragically the top story

This morning, a man opened fire around the Empire State Building in New York City. Early reports indicate that at least four people were shot, ten injured – and two dead - including the shooter. Witnesses describe a horrible, chaotic scene on the streets – and it’s believed the shooter was a disgruntled employee who had recently been fired.
It’s too early to jump to conclusions – but this mass shooting, like all the others we’ve seen recently – are consequences of a decaying American society. The mix of economic desperation and easy access to guns – leads to these tragedies, which are occurring far too often in our nation.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

Yes, tragic...but...

...all of these lone gunman shootings don't even come close to people who die in traffic accidents...and no one is trying to make a case for banning the automobile. Way, way more people die every year from various relatively preventable diseases...yet not many people will take seriously banning some of the foods (what? ban fast food restaurants, hamburgers and fries?). And as per Thom's recent story on the "death inducing" ingredients that is being put into our "foods"...where is the "shock" value of the potential "megadeaths" that could occur, or are occurring, as compared to the more visceral shock propaganda of an abrupt termination of life as brought about by a lone gunman. The slow megadeaths will occur over time as various cancers set in but the "shock value" just doesn't compare to the crack of a gun.

The problem is that most of these people die by what most have been cajoled to believe are more "natural" deaths. It takes time for the illnesses to happen and they die quietly.

An abrupt death, as from a gunshot, is more dramatic and shocking. And many of the same people who may be shocked at a few people in OUR cities who die from gunshots are not very concerned at all about all of the magnitudes more innocent civilians...and including thousands of children..die every year from our failed foreign war policies. Few are as alarmed about the thousands of innocent people murdered by our military as they are by an occasional lone gunman who kills a few people in OUR cities...or our classrooms.

If you want to ban guns, you should start with the military..and the police who put 40 rounds into a lone, homeless, knife-weilding crazy man. Take away the tremendous waste in money and lives that our military is allowed to squander every year...because some snot-nosed, spoiled brat of a President wants to take retribution out on someone who threatened his daddy (Bush).

Lets not give in to the propaganda that OUR guns are the problem. The ruling elite would love nothing more than to convince us all to give up our only possible way of defending ourselves against tyranny. It worked for Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, and Stalin....but we shouldn't let it happen here. Otherwise we may see large segments of our population disappear like in these countries.

You think it would never happen here? Don't be naive! A well armed citizenry willing to defend themselves against tyranny is necessary to keep themselves from being enslaved by tyrants. And our system of government has been taken over by tyrants....represented by the fake system of democracy as represented by the Democrats and Republicans who have resigned themselves to believe that those with all the gold will rule.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

Per the stratfor email dump, the trapwire system contains
> functionality like facial recognition and is installed at every HVT in
> the continental US, in addition to Ottawa and Canada-- but confirmed
> in LA, NYC, NJ, DC, Las Vegas, et cetera. It's essentially a system
> setup to detect surveillance, so if you've ever taken a picture of
> basically anything 'important' you probably flagged a 'suspicious
> activity report' (SAR). It's logged to a central database and then
> cross-site reports are disseminated. If you're familiar with the 'see
> something say something' or 'iWatch' programs, that's the public
> reporting component, but in the email dumps when explaining similar
> systems they note repeatedly that trapwire has the capability to walk
> the cat back you just need a few pictures of the persons. From the
> emails, what's been enumerated specifically is NY/DC mass transit,
> unspecified sections of LA, London Stock Exchange, Scotland Yard, #10
> Downing, the White House. From googling, we can find that NJ transit,
> all army bases, the department of energy, the marines, et cetera are
> as well. No idea if they got the contract, but they were apparently
> trying to get it into the Nigerian presidential palace as well.
> It's not just in public sector areas, it sounds like any big
> corporation that wants in gets to link their CCTV/surveillance systems
> into it as well-- apparently salesforce.com, google, potentially Dell,
> Wal-Mart, & Coca-cola, et cetera are all linked in.


Next time you are shopping at Walmart...say "hi!" to the authorities watching you.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

Old news but worth repeating...how many, who participate in these blogs are really "sock puppets" for the government?

The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.

"online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.

The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.

The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries".


How many people who see an icon (gravitar) of a handsome looking fellow or a beautiful woman, connected with the blog, really think that that is what the person writing actually looks like? How many people may let that influence how they react to what they say? On the internet...no one really knows you're a dog....woof! That beautiful woman, for example, may actually be a man that looks nothing like the photo. More than likely, that person is one of those manufactured on-line personas who is flatulating for the government or military.

raymondoscaff's picture
raymondoscaff 11 years 43 weeks ago

How many deaths by this cause must there be, I glimpsed at one reply above stating its nothing compared to vehicle accidents, ACCIDENTS, not one person has pulled a trigger by accident, deliberate MURDER. I live in the UK ,no system is perfect ,but it seems to be that certain gun laws fail your American way, of which i'm glad weve not followed maybe, only maybe it would be better if our flag was still flying there?

leighmf's picture
leighmf 11 years 43 weeks ago

Too much Stress- like our crumbling infrastructure. Isn't it a matter of physics?

Too much Stress for Thom and Louise, both ill. Get out of DC, and don't look back. But I wouldn't pick San Francisco either.

leighmf's picture
leighmf 11 years 43 weeks ago

I don't think so. Some of us like our flag and have a distaste for Royal dominance.

raymondoscaff's picture
raymondoscaff 11 years 43 weeks ago


I agree with you, just trying to put a spin on the issue, I apologise for the boy running around naked, people are gunning for him, paparatzi, sad that his streaking has got more press here than the shooting,our thoughts are with the loved ones of those killed and injured.

bobbler's picture
bobbler 11 years 43 weeks ago

Gun laws are the one singular place I disagree with liberal philosophy.. I realize simple handguns cannot equal our governments military.. But when we see the cops in America attacking peaceful protesters with cameras, maybe it's time for the revolution the American founders spoke about.. And we need guns for a revolution.. America has become fascist, with the cops and politicians under big business (money) control..

U.S. Citizen's picture
U.S. Citizen 11 years 43 weeks ago

As the nation moves towards financial bankruptcy due to our low tax rates, we should be advised that the nation is already morally bankrupt--due to the corporatization of America and our arrogant and hypocritical foreign policy. While Obama is moving us beyond corporatocracy towards a police state, McCain would have been worse and Romney will also be worse.

TruthAddict's picture
TruthAddict 11 years 43 weeks ago

I believe it has to get worse before enough U.S. citizens wake up to start a mass movement for fundamental change. I figure the murder/suicide index must go up a few more points before that happens. I’m voting for the Green Party knowing that Romney might win because of it. Romney will certainly increase the murder/suicide index sufficiently to amass a popular uprising. At least the Green Party offers a real alternative where Obama clearly does not. Voting for the lesser of two evils is a wasted vote.

klentz's picture
klentz 11 years 43 weeks ago

Since the 2nd Amendment says something like "...In order to maintain a well regulated militia...the right to bear arms shall not be abridged..." , and since the Republicans are strict constituionalists, we need to take the words literally, and make the following law:

If you own a gun, you have to join a 'well regulated' militia, otherwise, no guns. And Oh, by the way, if you are in a militia, you may be called up at any time to active duty and sent anywhere in the world to fight.

stradric's picture
stradric 11 years 43 weeks ago

You're probably right, Thom, but that sure is a sweeping conclusion. Population density, the internet, and whatever else you want to throw in the pot will correlate just as easily. It's that causation that is oh so tough to prove.

MILee's picture
MILee 11 years 43 weeks ago

I agree with the above writer, even though I don't believe guns in everone's hands are the answer. At present the beatitudes of the controlling oligarchy is that "the meek and weak shall inherit our scorn". When they have disposed of all the underlings, who will be left to wash their dishes and clean their toilets? Tea Party folks who followed them blindly? Our nation is turning into a nation of shame. How sad that this happened in only about 250 years.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

So, you'd prefer the overwhelming numbers of ACCIDENTS to the relatively few MURDERS? Either way people die! So, do I understand that you believe that it is better to have hundreds of thousands die in auto accidents than the few that die in gun crimes? And that we need to concern ourselves with the later instead of the former?

If the proposed answer to preventing needless MURDERS is to prevent people from having guns then wouldn't it make more sense to save so many more people from needlessly dying by preventing them from having those automobiles? And if people don't have guns...they'll just use knives...or their cars.

Wouldn't it make more sense to concentrate more on cracking down on the corporations that poison us in the foods we buy, the GMO or other carcinogens that take many years to manifest as cancers, than to concentrate on the many fewer MURDERS by guns?

So you think MURDERS are something we can prevent more than ACCIDENTS? People go nuts behind the wheel all the time and murder people with their cars...and it is usually chalked up as ACCIDENTS. And even if it was a clear cut intentional MURDER by automobile...it is usually not played up in the news media as much as gun murders are. Since ACCIDENTS happen all the time, there usually isn't the same kind of "shock value" that happens when some gun man goes nuts. It's not played up in the news media, over and over again, as gun murders. Why do you think that is?

The media is owned by the ruling elite...the ruling elite feel threatened by a well armed citizenry who can put up a lot of resistance to their oppression and exploitation. ie: It would be a lot harder for the wolves guarding the chicken coops if the chickens were well armed with hollow point beaks!

And I have never even heard of an anti-automobile lobby...but there sure is an anti-gun lobby. The ruling elite has effectively created many left or liberal sounding organizations and mouth pieces for the purpose of convincing fellow liberals to give up their guns.

And how do you feel about the illegal invasion and continued occupation of the Middle East, murdering innocent civilians by the same military that may very well aim their weapons at us one day? They already have lots of practice in murdering people...especially unarmed civilians.

Yes, I agree that it is very unfortunate that occasionally someone goes bonkers and MURDERS a few people. It would be great if we could prevent that. We should be talking about the underlying factors and not the knee-jerk, reactionary reactions of wanting to ban all of our guns.

But, the unprecedented media coverage LOVES the shock value and despite their trying to put on a concerned or shocked expression...THEY ARE LOVING IT! And those people who believe that no one should have any guns at all are JUST LOVING IT! They believe that it will help disarm us all. But, one day, their ebullient and smirking chimp, just below the surface demeanors, will change to "damn, we should have kept our weapons...now what are we gonna do?"

As corporatocracy is now ruling the roost..guarding the hen house...and feeding us GMOs, carcinogens, and saw dust, and continuing to tax us lower classes to pay for their illegal wars..etc..etc...one day, as our emaciated bodies, struggling to fight off the terrible diseases THEY gave us....it will be too late to rebel. They will make, or already have made, freedom of speech illegal and punishable by death. Sieg Heil, chickens!

leighmf's picture
leighmf 11 years 43 weeks ago

No worries. It's not your fault. Some people streak, some people shoot. The Prince suffered a traumatic loss in childhood which he will never escape. He is welcome to a frolic, but I hope he is not invested in weapons manufacturing.

Just saw this-

Princess Diana Dies in Paris, Aug. 31, 1997So you see, this is a bad time time of year for him.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

It's odd how we can celebrate and praise the fortitude and bravery of our founding fathers who weren't much into "gun control" back then...yet the same people who belch forth self-righteous platitudes about "home of the brave" are such cowardly chickens who would let the ruling elite take away the people's only means of breaking from their tyranny.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

I agree that it would be great if the truly crazy people who would be prone to snapping and killing people with their guns could be detected and prevented from having access to guns...or knives...or cars...or poisons..etc. But, of course, the dilemma comes when you take into consideration who will be the regulator. If your government is already corrupt and controlled by the ruling elite..and we all decide that this government should decide who is nuts and who shouldn't own weapons then they could easily let everyone who is a hard core ruling elitist own guns and those of us who see things differently..not own guns.

That reminds me of a cartoon I saw many years ago: Peering through the barred windows of this building sits what looks like a bunch of students all reading bibles. This building was in Russia and the sign on the building was Moscow Institute for the Mentally Insane.

BARBARA NECKER 11 years 43 weeks ago

Well, I finally was able to sign in to you, but by now I've forgotten what the uck I wanted to c0mment on, so forgeddaboudit.

2950-10K's picture
2950-10K 11 years 43 weeks ago

Palindromedary; Remember our current government, like it or not, is all that we have to keep and delineate us from ....say 14th century global society, the place and time the Koch's, Romney, Ryan, and the Republicans want to go back to.

That said, I would like to express my sentiment regarding the current democrats in office verse the republicans. I get that you recognize the corruption and misguided influence that big money has wrought upon both democrat and republican representatives, "employees," of...."We The People." I mostly agree with your outrage, and although I'd love to see the Green party in power, in my opinion we are not at the time and place for a third party. I believe that support of the Democratic Party on all levels is imperative come November. Look, way too much is at stake, including the future Supreme Court. Seriously.....you must see the difference between the two parties, if you don't buy what I'm trying to say just look at the Legislative record.... actions and bills.

I guess..... unless I'm misunderstanding your posts, you and others don't see much difference. I look at it this way, without an outright violent revolt in the next couple of months, any progressive voting for a third party is equal to a vote for Romney and a post modern feudal society...I really think it's that bad...and as I've said before, I'm an independent that has voted for the Green Party in the past and if anything I'm actually more progressive now. Just my opinion for what it's worth! Sorry if I just pissed off any of Jill's supporters...that certainly is not my intent! I believe the Greens will prevail in due time!

ken ware's picture
ken ware 11 years 43 weeks ago

Palindromedary, Do you have a life or do you just wait to release your emotions on this web page? I use to enjoy reading the different comments on Thom's blog, but it is just too frustrating to read your conspiracy rants each day. Get a life for yourself and perhaps you will have something to do, besides ranting on about how the government is conspiring to intercept information about our daily lives...and use it against us. We all know the government is corrupt and only works for the wealthy and the corporations to increase their bottom line profits. But, you sound like you actually believe the guys in black suits are waiting for the signal to start rounding up all of the decenters and place them in concentration camps. And I still have not heard anyone in Washington say they want to take all the privately owned weapons away from us and leave us without protection. Do you really think a civilian militia would actually stand a chance against federal troops? Can you spell the word, paranoia? The government is not the people who are growing GOM'S, it is the bloody corporations like Monsanto and other giant chemical corporations who produce the seeds of GMO food plants.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

Well, I have certainly tossed it around but have decided that there is just no way that voting for Obama again will be of any use whatsoever. If you vote for Obama again you remain in that groove that you'll never get out of. The Democrats have to see that if they don't totally support those who voted them into office that we absolutely will not vote for them again.

Since the ruling elite controls both the Republicans and the Democrats..if you vote for one or the other you are still voting for the ruling elite. I'm calling their bluff and won't play their game anymore. Obama not only blew it but he revealed the true game that they, the ruling elite, play. The whole thing is a charade to get you to stay locked in to the Business party with two factions..the Republicans and the Democrats.

I hate it that Romney would possibly win...but I also see the illusion that Obama is. Either way, and I sure am not looking forward to our very bleak and violent future. But I believe that it's coming...with Romney, it may happen a little sooner. But with Obama, the false hope he panders will tend to stave off a little longer what may be inevitable....when his supporters finally realize that he was not going to change after all.

I'm sticking with Jill Stein, even if it risks putting Romney in the White House. The Democrats just plain blew it and I've had enough of them. Just big pussies that won't stand up to the Republicans....because they are also part of the deception that the ruling elite uses to keep us pinned down.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

This IS my life...so get over it! And I certainly don't care about whether you "enjoy" reading what I have to say. If you don't like what I say then just skip over my sections. I'm quite likely to ignore yours from now on, that's for sure. This is not the first time you've said that I am "paranoid" and that I should "get a life"...and I've responded then as I do now...just skip over what I write. Simple! But you have not done that so I guess you must have another reason for reading what I have to say....could it be that you are afraid that I might influence someone else in something that you do not agree with...and you can't really effectively refute what I say so you try to discourage me through ad hominem name calling?

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

A new US military spy operation takes manipulation to a new level, using social media to tackle the online world. America's new 'sock puppet' software allows the military to simultaneously create multiple fake online identities to spread a pro-American message.

Nope, you are not being spammed. You have been targeted! You are so popular on Twitter, Facebook or where ever else you might spend your time online that the government wants to comment on your blog, many, many times to make sure their message is the loudest.

You can block them, report it as spam, but it will not work. The views will keep coming back. The military has awarded a contract to a California company to make sure of that.

The new software creates a super online persona management service allowing military members to control multiple online identities at once. The personas are generated to boast a convincing back story, a history and required supporting information. In addition, up to at least 50 controllers need to be able to operate their false identities from their government computers concurrently -- "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries," of course.
Military Report: Secretly 'Recruit or Hire Bloggers'
By Noah Shachtman
March 31, 2008

"A study, written for U.S. Special Operations Command, suggested "clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers."

Since the start of the Iraq war, there's been a raucous debate in military circles over how to handle blogs — and the service members who want to keep them. One faction sees blogs as security risks, and a collective waste of troops' time. The other (which includes top officers, like Gen. David Petraeus and Lt. Gen. William Caldwell) considers blogs to be a valuable source of information, and a way for ordinary troops to shape opinions, both at home and abroad.

This 2006 report for the Joint Special Operations University, "Blogs and Military Information Strategy," offers a third approach — co-opting bloggers, or even putting them on the payroll. "Hiring a block of bloggers to verbally attack a specific person or promote a specific message may be worth considering," write the report's co-authors, James Kinniburgh and Dororthy Denning.


Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

"Mass interception of entire populations is not only a reality, it is a secret new industry spanning 25 countries

It sounds like something out of Hollywood, but as of today, mass interception systems, built by Western intelligence contractors, including for ’political opponents’ are a reality."

Selling Surveillance to Dictators

"When citizens overthrew the dictatorships in Egypt and Libya this year, they uncovered listening rooms where devices from Gamma corporation of the UK, Amesys of France, VASTech of South Africa and ZTE Corp of China monitored their every move online and on the phone.

Surveillance companies like SS8 in the U.S., Hacking Team in Italy and Vupen in France manufacture viruses (Trojans) that hijack individual computers and phones (including iPhones, Blackberries and Androids), take over the device, record its every use, movement, and even the sights and sounds of the room it is in. Other companies like Phoenexia in the Czech Republic collaborate with the military to create speech analysis tools. They identify individuals by gender, age and stress levels and track them based on ‘voiceprints’. Blue Coat in the U.S. and Ipoque in Germany sell tools to governments in countries like China and Iran to prevent dissidents from organizing online.

Trovicor, previously a subsidiary of Nokia Siemens Networks, supplied the Bahraini government with interception technologies that tracked human rights activist Abdul Ghani Al Khanjar. He was shown details of personal mobile phone conversations from before he was interrogated and beaten in the winter of 2010-2011."

"Orwell’s World

Across the world, mass surveillance contractors are helping intelligence agencies spy on individuals and ‘communities of interest’ on an industrial scale.

The Wikileaks Spy Files reveal the details of which companies are making billions selling sophisticated tracking tools to government buyers, flouting export rules, and turning a blind eye to dictatorial regimes that abuse human rights."


PJ Parker's picture
PJ Parker 11 years 43 weeks ago

When a person has nothing left to lose, they become very, very dangerous.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

On the other hand, a person, or a group of persons (whether they control the government or not) can become very dangerous even if, or especially if, they have a lot to lose....like the 1%.

By amassing most of the wealth of the nations, the few that control that wealth are DESPERATE to continue controlling that wealth. They resort to desperate measures, getting police to bash heads or pepper spray peaceful demonstrators, for example. Or, eventually using the military and continued violent means in using their corrupt government to look out for their interests and suppress everyone else's interests. They own the news media and control the propaganda. The same desperate measures that all other country's ruling elite, past and present, have used against the masses have been, to some extent, used in the US. And, of course, it could get much worse.

Maybe that is why most sane governments foster the idea of encouraging most people to have something to lose...like a marriage, children, a home, a job, health security, bank accounts...everything that might keep people from losing it. But when that government is being corrupted and controlled by a small group, say "the 1%", to take away all these things, then the masses can become very dangerous to the 1%. It happened in Russia and in France...and more recently in Libya and Egypt and breaking out all over the world.

When propaganda and "hope pandering" no longer work and people begin losing everything... (their wives or children due to the health$care death panels striving to maximize profits, their job due to downsizing and sending our jobs overseas in order to maximize the profits of the already wealthy, their homes due to a crooked mortgage scam, and their bank accounts due to rising food prices or bank failures that the bankrupt FDIC won't be able to cover a depositor's losses, or a government that will make good on the losses of the gambling of wealthy scamsters but not the people with bank accounts.)...then the historical and natural response may be a massive uprising.

The Tea Party was becoming very dangerous to the 1% until the 1% took them over to steer them. Now they are dangerous to the 99%. I hope that is not happening to the liberal movements. There are a lot of pretend liberals who are really subversives. Some even post blogs..perhaps as sock puppets paid by the ruling elite to discredit liberals or progressives.


I hope that no one loses it and tries to act alone. They will only be seen as a crazy person and will, perhaps, do damage to other people suffering from, perhaps, the same problems. It won't do any good to strike out against those fellow victims. It just never made any sense for rioters, for example, to riot in their own communities.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

I agree and have posted several responses in the same vein. thanx.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

Now your broaching the real problem , no one wants to here about it unfortunately.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

Romney/Obama no difference for poor folk , Obama might help a thin slice of upper eschelon libs. become wealthier.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

Your onto the scam . The gun flap is a wedge issue along party lines , that both partys milk for all it's worth everytime there is a shooting. Car deaths and poisoned food are not wedged that way therefore no interest. PRO/Anti abortion, tied to healthcare, is the wedge both parties love the best. It generates the most contributions to both sides

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

The majority of gun deaths are suicides 17000 or so in 2010.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

The US is the oldest republic on Earth 250 years is actually a long time for it to have survived

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

Better and more logically consistant to vote NOTA. The Greens believe the current system can be repaired with a few tweaks . This is clearly dillusional.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

They are already doing this in places. Facebook reported 800000 bogus pages, the story quickly disappeared.

jim mcdonagh's picture
jim mcdonagh 11 years 43 weeks ago

Guerrilla fighters since Robert the Bruce have defeated standing armies in the west and east more often than not . The current US Army requires 15 men in logistics to support 1 in the field. That's how Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam were lost . Castro won Cuba with a couple of dozen dedicated men with old US rifles.Your weapon only needs to be good enough to kill your enemy and take his weapons if they are better, as we have learned in these wars of conquest.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

I agree that electing the Green party will not entirely fix our problems...there is even the possibility that no matter what Jill Stein says in seeking the election...if she were to actually win the Presidency...there is no guarantee that she will hold true to any of what she now says. Just like Obama! We want them to say..."Oh, damn, we really did blow it this time, didn't we...people are too smart to believe in our lies and propaganda any more...maybe we should try to rebuild the Democrat party so that people can trust us again."

But, breaking recent historical precedence...showing the nation and the world that the crooked money controlled two party system will no longer control us and that if they don't go to bat for those who actually have to vote for them...then we just will not vote for them again. In fact, I'd say you were "wasting your vote" if you vote for Obama. Your vote for Jill Stein of the Green party will be a loud and clear signal that the ruling elite do not "have it in the bag". The Democrats really do deserve to lose this time! No good can come from re-electing them...except for the ones that really have gone to bat for us. And I really hate to say that because I consider myself to be a liberal, progressive Democrat.

The act of ushering in a new era led by the Green Party is way better than what may very well be coming down the pike at us if things don't drastically change very soon. No one really wants massive violence to break out. But, unfortunately, there are few remedies. Obama has already shown who he is...and it is not who he pretended to be when seeking election for the Presidency. He is now merely repeating his pre-election lies and deceptions.

If America doesn't do something really drastic...like elect Jill Stein...and break the good-ole-boy ruling elite class stranglehold on America...then America will soon have no other choice but to fight back the hard way. And it ain't gonna be pretty!

I just hope they are going to be smarter about it than to attack those unworthy of an attack. We will be inundated by propaganda to get us to fighting one another over silly differences and they will pretend to be one of us...they are very good at fooling lots of people...and trying to make some of us look crazy and, perhaps, violent. None of us who hate what America has been doing (ie: killing thousands of innocent civilians in the Middle East) are any where near as violent as the military and the politicians who send them over there to conduct this illegal war.

You will just be making things worse by voting for Obama again. If he wins...he, and his regime, will just say..."see there, their vote shows that they love me and my policies...here's more of the same!" And there will be absolutely no incentive for him to suddenly change and go to bat for the people who elected him. He's looking for that "revolving door" to the private sector where he can make some really big bucks. And that goes for all of the other political, government, and military people in power as well.

Voting for Obama, with almost identical policies, or extensions of, to the Bush regime and in many cases even more disgustingly vile than Bush's will only slightly delay the inevitable. Romney would, of course, bring it on even sooner. The longer we wait, the more prepared the government will be to fight the people. They will have saturated the skies with Hell-Fire missile armed drones.

But, there is one factor that may help us....that no matter how many cops or military they put on the streets of America....many of those warriors will be very conflicted when they start hearing that they are firing upon their own mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 43 weeks ago

What I said about the "shock value" as played out in the media of the "crack of a gun" doesn't muster the same uproar as the slow relatively quiet deaths of people with cancer...the leading killer in America...way outnumbering deaths by guns.

I am currently experiencing the really gut-wrenching and very sad occasion of the slow and painful death of a relative...a Vietnam vet who has cancer that has spread just about everywhere in his body...he is under treatment at a VA center but doesn't have very much longer to live..maybe months..maybe days. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be a lot better to just die unexpectedly and quickly rather than being in pain and knowing that you are terminal.

It is really sad and hard to see him in such pain...that occurs when the VA administered narcotics wear off...and we, the family members, have not let him go a day without visiting him in the VA center (except on a day we all had to attend a close friend's funeral) and making sure he gets his meds. I'd have to say that the VA center has, so far, been really fantastic in caring for him. And the people at the VA, the nurses, etc..are all very wonderful and friendly.

There are no media exploiting the shock value of cancer as there is with gun death....or wedge issues such as there is for guns. Concerns about all of the carcinogens that cause cancer...like those in tobacco...and a lot of other things...just don't seem to make the "shock list" of things that the media can use to, well, "shock us". I have known many smokers and have lost a number of friends and relatives from their use of "coffin nails". Many are just plain hooked on nicotine...they are ever as much "junkies" as anyone else strung out on other forms of narcotics. And many won't even admit even to themselves that smoking causes cancer. It's like a junkie saying "Oh, I'm not hooked...I can get off any time I want...but, first, just a little taste!"

Since so many more people are killed each year by the use of tobacco products...why is the public not as up in arms about tobacco causing cancer. Why do they not demand that tobacco companies stop producing these drugs...which are quite a bit more destructive than guns?

I'm sure that Thom has put out a topic on tobacco related cancer deaths before...but how would it be if he put one out that was captioned: "Once again, another slow and painful cancer death is tragically the top story"?
Or: "Another slow and painful cancer death in America..."?
Or: "The second slow and painful cancer death in the US in just two seconds"?
Or: "Why does the US have such a high rate of slow and painful cancer deaths?"?
Or: "Why Should Cancer-causing Tobacco Nuts Viotate the Rights of the Average Person?"?
I'd say the right to live is quite valid here!

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 42 weeks ago

Crash by April 2013....

Max Keiser has stated that he believes that if we make it to April of 2013 then there is quite likely to be a Global financial meltdown triggered by about the time of the US income tax deadline where the system will be irreparably damaged. There could be many actual triggers, including japan, or other things leading up to April 15, 2013. Max, says that the system is so overloaded now that it is like an avalanche just waiting to happen...no one can say exactly which snow flake will set it off.

In other words...there will likely be hyperinflation similar to, but perhaps not as severe as in Germany pre-WWII, and it will be world wide.

BF (Bonnie Faulkner) says that many of her "friends who have barely any money at all are getting all of these letters from the IRS, the Franchise Tax Board, are after them for little bits of money" .. noticed just within this past month.

MK (Max Keiser) says that this is not unexpected...the government is broke..two possibilities...1: a default on the debt...that would be another collapse; or, 2: hyperinflation..a currency collapse; which is what he believes will be the outcome. Gas could be $15/gallon and groceries would be a couple of hundred dollars per bag.

A new FDR-like NEW NEW Deal would not be possible because...during FDR, the US was the world's largest creditor...now it is the world's largest debtor...with China being the holder of most of the US debt but they are bailing out trying to stock up on gold. The US government is the biggest buyer of US debt and we are also in huge debt to the Japanese. We were able to turn around from the crashes of the 20s by putting lots of bankers in jail and creating laws like the Glass-Steagall Act and creating FDIC.

What we need to do is put more bankers in jail and bring back the Glass-Steagall Act. Just creating more government jobs, without the other things, will just add more fuel to the fire because it would be putting more debt in the hands of bankers who will continue to abuse the system.

Banks will possibly shut down...or ATMs will decrease the daily limit of withdrawals.

"Over 100 million people have been thrust into poverty by this crisis" (since 2007) and that "many millions of these people are at death's door or who have already died or committed suicide...a "financial holocaust"...a planned extermination of a whole class of people...poor people."

The strongest will be the EU who has 12,000 tons of gold..they have the most gold of any block..and so they will be in relatively a better position.The weakest currency will be the US dollar even though it has 8,000 tons of gold reserves (about $432billion), it has many, many times more claims in the forms of derivatives ($600trillion?)*. China is in a mad scramble to buy gold right now because they know what's coming.

The Pentagon spends something like $440million a day on gas. When gas triples in price? The Pentagon relies almost entirely on gas....so the Pentagon is scrambling, in the Middle East, to get more gas. But, at the same time..they are generating 20 times more in derivatives...which ultimately has to be priced by gold. Which means the price of gas will quadruple. Everyone but Americans knows this..."because they're stupid"...they are kind of sleepwalking, they have this "bubble mentality".

----from the August 22, 2012 Guns and Butter show Countdown to Financial Collapse with Bonnie Faulkner


* http://moneymorning.com/2011/10/12/derivatives-the-600-trillion-time-bom...

Palindromedary's picture
Palindromedary 11 years 42 weeks ago

Bill Black reams Maria Bartoromo on CNBC Closing Bell on Liars Loans and the failure of both the Bush, and even more, the Obama administrations for not even trying to properly investigate and prosecute Wall Street crooks.


or here:

bobbler's picture
bobbler 11 years 42 weeks ago

LIberals In red states should """all""" vote green.. If I understand the system,a voting green is not a vote for Romney, if the state will go to Romney anyway.. Then we can start to gague if the green party is viable.

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